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Post by fixit on Jun 20, 2022 18:12:20 GMT -5
I'm reminded of the quote... If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it doesn’t, then it was never meant to be.If people belong to the organisation solely because they think membership is going to save them, then they should be set free. At an individual level, what is in you is more important than what you are in. This is what the early workers taught during the period when the fellowship grew the fastest. Oh really? Exactly what range of years did the workers preach this? The years before John Long got the push. |
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 20, 2022 23:12:33 GMT -5
Interesting that Nathan has so much to say about a book he hasn't seen or read yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 23:24:08 GMT -5
Interesting that Nathan has so much to say about a book he hasn't seen or read yet. I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... |
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 20, 2022 23:31:06 GMT -5
Interesting that Nathan has so much to say about a book he hasn't seen or read yet. I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... I think you'll find reputation goes a LONG way in both cases, Wally. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 20, 2022 23:43:34 GMT -5
I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... I think you'll find reputation goes a LONG way in both cases, Wally. Plus: for anyone who has had any concern about her project, we've had ample opportunity to appreciate how Ms. Kropp conducts her research and writes about her findings. Impeccable. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 21, 2022 1:19:14 GMT -5
Interesting that Nathan has so much to say about a book he hasn't seen or read yet. I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... I imagine you are familiar with the saying "oh what a tangled web we weave when FIRST we practice to decieve" You can make all the excuses for William Irvine you like, but we all know, including you that he served up a crock of sh!t in the first place. The biggest dissapointment in my life was reading a book called "the secret sect" around 1984 and realizing that the very foundation of my upbringing was based on a lie. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 21, 2022 1:33:48 GMT -5
I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... I imagine you are familiar with the saying "oh what a tangled web we weave when FIRST we practice to decieve" You can make all the excuses for William Irvine you like, but we all know, including you that he served up a crock of sh!t in the first place. The biggest dissapointment in my life was reading a book called "the secret sect" around 1984 and realizing that the very foundation of my upbringing was based on a lie. That goes for me too but what really interested me was the reaction of the workers in Australia. All those kindly old men who were supposed to be saving souls turned into raving dictators. That was an eye opener. |
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Post by help on Jun 21, 2022 9:32:23 GMT -5
Interesting that Nathan has so much to say about a book he hasn't seen or read yet. I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... If people take the time to read the advice that Cherie gave in the OP of this thread they will soon become aware of the worth of her writing before they even get the book. "Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com" |
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rudyw
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Post by rudyw on Jun 23, 2022 16:23:23 GMT -5
I was wondering the same about those who praised it without owning it yet..... I imagine you are familiar with the saying "oh what a tangled web we weave when FIRST we practice to decieve" You can make all the excuses for William Irvine you like, but we all know, including you that he served up a crock of sh!t in the first place. The biggest dissapointment in my life was reading a book called "the secret sect" around 1984 and realizing that the very foundation of my upbringing was based on a lie. I brought the book up with 2 trusted friends I was told, “What difference does it make? We teach Jesus’ pattern, and that’s all that matters.” What really bothered me is that I had a feeling that these two friends already knew the truth about the sect’s origins. Just a gut feeling. I can deal with following Jesus’ pattern, and I do try to do that. But, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why perpetuate the lie? |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 23, 2022 18:11:22 GMT -5
I imagine you are familiar with the saying "oh what a tangled web we weave when FIRST we practice to decieve" You can make all the excuses for William Irvine you like, but we all know, including you that he served up a crock of sh!t in the first place. The biggest dissapointment in my life was reading a book called "the secret sect" around 1984 and realizing that the very foundation of my upbringing was based on a lie. It was The Secret Sect that began my exit. I truly believed that the way began with Jesus. I just happened to see the book displayed in a shop window and I knew it was about us. When I brought the book up with 2 trusted friends I was told, “What difference does it make? We teach Jesus’ pattern, and that’s all that matters.” What really bothered me is that I had a feeling that these two friends already knew the truth about the sect’s origins. Just a gut feeling. I can deal with following Jesus’ pattern, and I do try to do that. But, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why perpetuate the lie? I guess it comes back to the fact that there are none so blind as those that don't want to see, If they are happy in their fantasy land living a lie then you have done your bit. I personally have zero tolerance for deception in any part of my life, so it really hit me head on, some people are a lot more relaxed about that kind of thing. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 24, 2022 1:16:09 GMT -5
I imagine you are familiar with the saying "oh what a tangled web we weave when FIRST we practice to decieve" You can make all the excuses for William Irvine you like, but we all know, including you that he served up a crock of sh!t in the first place. The biggest dissapointment in my life was reading a book called "the secret sect" around 1984 and realizing that the very foundation of my upbringing was based on a lie. It was The Secret Sect that began my exit. I truly believed that the way began with Jesus. I just happened to see the book displayed in a shop window and I knew it was about us. When I brought the book up with 2 trusted friends I was told, “What difference does it make? We teach Jesus’ pattern, and that’s all that matters.” What really bothered me is that I had a feeling that these two friends already knew the truth about the sect’s origins. Just a gut feeling. I can deal with following Jesus’ pattern, and I do try to do that. But, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why perpetuate the lie? The problem I see is this. People realize that the "Truth" was founded on a lie and so switch church. Those that change waka do not scrutinize the new church and more importantly the bible as they should. I am picking that would be just too uncomfortable for them to realize that eternal life and virigin births is all just a fantasy. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 24, 2022 2:31:14 GMT -5
It was The Secret Sect that began my exit. I truly believed that the way began with Jesus. I just happened to see the book displayed in a shop window and I knew it was about us. When I brought the book up with 2 trusted friends I was told, “What difference does it make? We teach Jesus’ pattern, and that’s all that matters.” What really bothered me is that I had a feeling that these two friends already knew the truth about the sect’s origins. Just a gut feeling. I can deal with following Jesus’ pattern, and I do try to do that. But, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why perpetuate the lie? The problem I see is this. People realize that the "Truth" was founded on a lie and so switch church. Those that change waka do not scrutinize the new church and more importantly the bible as they should. I am picking that would be just too uncomfortable for them to realize that eternal life and virigin births is all just a fantasy. Basically, the whole problem started when Mary had extramarital relations and lied about it. Also, Mary isint a particularly popular middle eastern girls name. |
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Post by Grant on Jun 24, 2022 2:41:29 GMT -5
The problem I see is this. People realize that the "Truth" was founded on a lie and so switch church. Those that change waka do not scrutinize the new church and more importantly the bible as they should. I am picking that would be just too uncomfortable for them to realize that eternal life and virigin births is all just a fantasy. Basically, the whole problem started when Mary had extramarital relations and lied about it. Also, Mary isint a particularly popular middle eastern girls name. Miriam is used as the name for Mary, and is very popular in the middle east. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 24, 2022 2:42:04 GMT -5
The problem I see is this. People realize that the "Truth" was founded on a lie and so switch church. Those that change waka do not scrutinize the new church and more importantly the bible as they should. I am picking that would be just too uncomfortable for them to realize that eternal life and virigin births is all just a fantasy. Basically, the whole problem started when Mary had extramarital relations and lied about it. Also, Mary isint a particularly popular middle eastern girls name. Maybe she was a cross dresser and she nicked a baby from somewhere so they appear to be a normal couple. Happens all the time. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 24, 2022 2:54:51 GMT -5
Basically, the whole problem started when Mary had extramarital relations and lied about it. Also, Mary isint a particularly popular middle eastern girls name. Miriam is used as the name for Mary, and is very popular in the middle east. Well if her name was Miriam then that's what she should be called.. I can only work with the information to hand. |
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Post by Grant on Jun 24, 2022 2:59:30 GMT -5
Miriam is used as the name for Mary, and is very popular in the middle east. Well if her name was Miriam then that's what she should be called.. I can only work with the information to hand. Miryam or Miriam is middle eastern for Mary. Means woman of God. The name used for Mary. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 24, 2022 3:35:05 GMT -5
Well if her name was Miriam then that's what she should be called.. I can only work with the information to hand. Miryam or Miriam is middle eastern for Mary. Means woman of God. The name used for Mary. Well we've cleared that up, now we need to work on Matthew Mark Luke and John. |
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Post by verna on Jun 24, 2022 11:27:35 GMT -5
It was The Secret Sect that began my exit. I truly believed that the way began with Jesus. I just happened to see the book displayed in a shop window and I knew it was about us. When I brought the book up with 2 trusted friends I was told, “What difference does it make? We teach Jesus’ pattern, and that’s all that matters.” What really bothered me is that I had a feeling that these two friends already knew the truth about the sect’s origins. Just a gut feeling. I can deal with following Jesus’ pattern, and I do try to do that. But, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why perpetuate the lie? The problem I see is this. People realize that the "Truth" was founded on a lie and so switch church. Those that change waka do not scrutinize the new church and more importantly the bible as they should. I am picking that would be just too uncomfortable for them to realize that eternal life and virigin births is all just a fantasy. Yes I agree curly. I was recently conversing with an ex-Anglican priest who is now on the other side of church-land, as he calls it. I had mentioned an E x2x2 to him, a person we both knew (I’ll call him Tom). This was his response “From the things Tom told me, you must know a lot about the controlling tendencies of religion, with a faith like that of the 2X2’s. His stories gave me the shivers. But they’re only an extreme example of the meanness and hypocrisy of all religions.” I agree. Although I cannot fault the need of people for a community and a sense of meaning it just seems like it’s more of the same. I guess I am jaded. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 24, 2022 12:47:44 GMT -5
For many people in the "Truth" it is their social club they go to twice a week.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 24, 2022 15:37:11 GMT -5
For many people in the "Truth" it is their social club they go to twice a week. Do you envisage, they sit in the attic, become loners holding their bible? From what I have seen of some of the friends and had conversations with some, they understand that the earth is not 6000 years old. They understand evolution, astronomy and so on, all of which would in my view preclude a belief in a god. yet they continue to go to church. That has me flummoxed. Is it the social aspect they are afraid of missing or are they having a bob both ways or is it something else? |
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Post by Grant on Jun 24, 2022 16:26:48 GMT -5
Do you envisage, they sit in the attic, become loners holding their bible? From what I have seen of some of the friends and had conversations with some, they understand that the earth is not 6000 years old. They understand evolution, astronomy and so on, all of which would in my view preclude a belief in a god. yet they continue to go to church. That has me flummoxed. Is it the social aspect they are afraid of missing or are they having a bob both ways or is it something else? It's my understanding that they believe God put it there in the beginning and things evolved from there. Years as mentioned in the Bible being periods of time. I can go with all that. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 24, 2022 16:30:08 GMT -5
Do you envisage, they sit in the attic, become loners holding their bible? From what I have seen of some of the friends and had conversations with some, they understand that the earth is not 6000 years old. They understand evolution, astronomy and so on, all of which would in my view preclude a belief in a god. yet they continue to go to church. That has me flummoxed. Is it the social aspect they are afraid of missing or are they having a bob both ways or is it something else? They are afrai of being spoken badly about, being judged, and being all alone in the big bad world with no friends. Try leaving 2x2 & find out who your "friends" really are. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 24, 2022 16:32:26 GMT -5
From what I have seen of some of the friends and had conversations with some, they understand that the earth is not 6000 years old. They understand evolution, astronomy and so on, all of which would in my view preclude a belief in a god. yet they continue to go to church. That has me flummoxed. Is it the social aspect they are afraid of missing or are they having a bob both ways or is it something else? It's my understanding that they believe God put it there in the beginning and things evolved from there. Years as mentioned in the Bible being periods of time. 1 can go with all that. That would explain why one of the chaps featured apparently lived to be 900 years old. I'm astonished that grown up's defend such a haphazard work of fiction so vehemently. |
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Post by verna on Jun 24, 2022 17:42:58 GMT -5
From what I have seen of some of the friends and had conversations with some, they understand that the earth is not 6000 years old. They understand evolution, astronomy and so on, all of which would in my view preclude a belief in a god. yet they continue to go to church. That has me flummoxed. Is it the social aspect they are afraid of missing or are they having a bob both ways or is it something else? They are afrai of being spoken badly about, being judged, and being all alone in the big bad world with no friends. Try leaving 2x2 & find out who your "friends" really are. Yes. I think that is it. I was fortunate that I was young when I left. I’m not sure I would be able to do it now. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 25, 2022 16:17:27 GMT -5
They are afraid of being spoken badly about, being judged, and being all alone in the big bad world with no friends. Try leaving 2x2 & find out who your "friends" really are. I am sorry to read that is your experience MrDob. I know you spoke well of your worker friend. I personally have some good friends I keep in contact with/ visit. And some of them have died in recent years. I think we need to accept, with the passing of time the friends in general are more open & friendly to those who have left. Well, thats my experience anyhow. I'm usually very friendly and accepting of them and its reciprocated on 'most' occasions. The worst communication or spirit I've ever been the recipient of, is on this TMB board. I guess its human to be with those you share interests wth. I personally, shy away from social groups that use foul language, put women down or engage in shallow talk. My experience was 40 years ago, I barely remember caring what anyone thought, but the concerns I mentioned are very real for people contemplating leaving today as long term professing people. I feel that possibly attitudes towards exes may have relaxed somewhat over the last 40 years, and maybe it's a little less black or white these days. Still the fear of commitment and change remain in those affected. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 29, 2022 23:23:03 GMT -5
FYI: Amazon's US prices are FINALLY correct: $34.98 for paperback and $44.98 for Hardback.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 1, 2022 12:35:11 GMT -5
$73 CDN for the hardcover version on Amazon Canada. Ouch. You're going to make me pay for all the hard times I gave you, Cherie. Nonetheless I'll have to purchase what is bound to be the definitive work on the history of the f&w. Congratulations on reaching this milestone - a significant achievement.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 3, 2022 8:48:15 GMT -5
$73 CDN for the hardcover version on Amazon Canada. Ouch. You're going to make me pay for all the hard times I gave you, Cherie. Nonetheless I'll have to purchase what is bound to be the definitive work on the history of the f&w. Congratulations on reaching this milestone - a significant achievement. I've repeatedly posted that prices are INCORRECT on Amazon for AU and Canada, and often for the US. Suggest you hold off ordering until they get prices right. I'm working with them, but its difficult and they are SLOW. Canada list prices should be paperback $46.99; hardback: $64.99 |
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