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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 17, 2022 8:48:01 GMT -5
Title: Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine
Published May 31, 2022 630 pages and 200 photos Amazon
Barnes & Noble List Prices: $34.98 USD ~ Paperback ISBN 9798985625004 $44.98 USD ~ Hardback ISBN 9798985625011 $14.99 USD ~ Ebook available soon ~ ISBN 9798985625028 Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com Really would appreciate your submitting a review on Amazon or Barnes & Noble after you read the book!
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Post by xna on Jun 17, 2022 10:16:08 GMT -5
The $34.99 option worked for me in the USA.
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Post by intelchips on Jun 17, 2022 11:43:23 GMT -5
Title: Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine
Published May 31, 2022 My book is now available on Amazon - 630 pages and 200 photos Amazon LINK: amzn.to/3Ogrm1eNOTE: The USD and Australia prices shown are incorrect and I'm working to get that corrected. However, the "Other buying options" shows the USD correct list price of $34.99 and can be ordered. It may show "temporarily out of stock" while Amazon orders it. Hardback should show up any day and an ebook will become available soon. Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com Congratulations on getting your abook published! Precious few have had the courage to write on the challenges of the truth. Knowing of your previous work I know you have written an excellent book that should raise lots of eyebrows. Of course I'm sure much of your subject was your own hard-won experience in the matter. Nevertheless, you must have done a wheelbarrow-full of research. I admire you.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 17, 2022 11:48:53 GMT -5
Make that several wheelbarrows!
FYI: It's more research than my experiences.
Thanks!
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Post by Grant on Jun 17, 2022 15:45:48 GMT -5
Such skill and accuracy. Your work and passion for telling the truth is to be applauded. Much thanks should be offered from the workers regarding the history, beliefs and practices of their church.
You are certainly a preserver of truth, Cherie. Hard to fault your professionalism.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 17, 2022 16:38:22 GMT -5
Thank you for your high praise, enuff.
Have enjoyed and appreciated our long-time friendship - though thousands of miles a part. Especially our one-time in person visit from you!
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2022 22:14:03 GMT -5
Yeah , ya , I am thrilled for you . Can’t wait to read it Congrats for the HARD work . Cause you have been reliving some moments ! That can be tough Ya it rocks 🪨
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 18, 2022 0:33:22 GMT -5
Title: Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine
Published May 31, 2022 My book is now available on Amazon - 630 pages and 200 photos Amazon LINK: amzn.to/3Ogrm1eNOTE: The USD and Australia prices shown are incorrect and I'm working to get that corrected. However, the "Other buying options" shows the USD correct list price of $34.99 and can be ordered. It may show "temporarily out of stock" while Amazon orders it. Hardback should show up any day and an ebook will become available soon. Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com Awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 2:25:32 GMT -5
Title: Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine
Published May 31, 2022 My book is now available on Amazon - 630 pages and 200 photos Amazon LINK: amzn.to/3Ogrm1eNOTE: The USD and Australia prices shown are incorrect and I'm working to get that corrected. However, the "Other buying options" shows the USD correct list price of $34.99 and can be ordered. It may show "temporarily out of stock" while Amazon orders it. Hardback should show up any day and an ebook will become available soon. Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com Congratulations on the publication of your book, the cumulation of a huge amount of research and many years of investigation for which many of us are very grateful. I think this book may turn out to be the closest thing there is to a definitive history of the 2x2 church and while the history of the sect is no longer the grubby secret it once was thanks to the internet, this book will do exactly what it says on the tin and preserve the true history of the 2x2 church in print. I think it’s a good thing that the term “Cooneyites”appears on the front cover as this helps to dispel one of the most enduring myths promoted by the 2x2 church, that the 2x2s aren’t the Cooneyites. It’s also good to see on the front cover a photograph of (a bearded) William Irvine. The last conversation I ever had with a worker involved him telling me that he “knew nothing about William Irvine” something I didn’t believe for a second. A man with a beard always has something to hide but there can be no hiding from the truth about Irvine and his 2x2 legacy now. Of course as one for whom truth is more important than belief it would be remiss of me not to point out that our religious conditioning in the 2x2 church encompassed much more than belief in the doctrines and teachings peculiar to the 2x2 church. It also included more mainstream Christian beliefs including belief in the bible, the Christian God, the resurrection, a returning Jesus, the immortal soul, Satan, heaven, hell, miracles, talking animals, angels, the power of prayer and a day of judgement where a supposedly just and caring God who supposedly loves us all will cast a huge proportion of us into everlasting hell on the basis of our unbelief in a God who insists on remaining completely invisible and for whom we can find no credible evidence of existence despite much searching. If we are truly interested in seeking truth we should subject all our religious beliefs to the same level of scrutiny and investigation as those of the 2x2 church and see how they stand up. A study of the true history of the New Testament and of the early Christian church is likely to be just as revealing and belief changing as the true history of the 2x2 church. And in the pursuit of truth we should never underestimate the power of religious conditioning, our capacity for being duped, our readiness to embrace religious myths, our ability to believe things that aren’t true and our willingness to blindly accept what our parents and religious leaders teach us. This book is a reminder of that and I look forwarding to reading it. Thanks for producing it. Matt10
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rob
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Post by rob on Jun 18, 2022 4:55:59 GMT -5
Title: Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine
Published May 31, 2022 My book is now available on Amazon - 630 pages and 200 photos Amazon LINK: amzn.to/3Ogrm1eNOTE: The USD and Australia prices shown are incorrect and I'm working to get that corrected. However, the "Other buying options" shows the USD correct list price of $34.99 and can be ordered. It may show "temporarily out of stock" while Amazon orders it. Hardback should show up any day and an ebook will become available soon. Read sample chapters on my author website at: cheriekroppehrig.com Congratulations on the publication of your book, the cumulation of a huge amount of research and many years of investigation for which many of us are very grateful. I think this book may turn out to be the closest thing there is to a definitive history of the 2x2 church and while the history of the sect is no longer the grubby secret it once was thanks to the internet, this book will do exactly what it says on the tin and preserve the true history of the 2x2 church in print. I think it’s a good thing that the term “Cooneyites”appears on the front cover as this helps to dispel one of the most enduring myths promoted by the 2x2 church, that the 2x2s aren’t the Cooneyites. It’s also good to see on the front cover a photograph of (a bearded) William Irvine. The last conversation I ever had with a worker involved him telling me that he “knew nothing about William Irvine” something I didn’t believe for a second. A man with a beard always has something to hide but there can be no hiding from the truth about Irvine and his 2x2 legacy now. Of course as one for whom truth is more important than belief it would be remiss of me not to point out that our religious conditioning in the 2x2 church encompassed much more than belief in the doctrines and teachings peculiar to the 2x2 church. It also included more mainstream Christian beliefs including belief in the bible, the Christian God, the resurrection, a returning Jesus, the immortal soul, Satan, heaven, hell, miracles, talking animals, angels, the power of prayer and a day of judgement where a supposedly just and caring God who supposedly loves us all will cast a huge proportion of us into everlasting hell on the basis of our unbelief in a God who insists on remaining completely invisible and for whom we can find no credible evidence of existence despite much searching. If we are truly interested in seeking truth we should subject all our religious beliefs to the same level of scrutiny and investigation as those of the 2x2 church and see how they stand up. A study of the true history of the New Testament and of the early Christian church is likely to be just as revealing and belief changing as the true history of the 2x2 church. And in the pursuit of truth we should never underestimate the power of religious conditioning, our capacity for being duped, our readiness to embrace religious myths, our ability to believe things that aren’t true and our willingness to blindly accept what our parents and religious leaders teach us. This book is a reminder of that and I look forwarding to reading it. Thanks for producing it. Matt10 Well said Matt10, religion has seriously messed with the ancient Hebrew wisdom regarding the best way to deal with life. And it starts with the common misunderstanding of just what and where “God” is. “God” is a pagan word which describes a deity or whatever is uppermost in your life, lots of things can be your God, but what the ancient Hebrews knew was that for the best outcome from whatever life dishes up, is to make the Gracious Compassionate character uppermost in dealing with it. There’s lots of pointers to this in scripture, once you have a little grasp of the Hebrew symbolic way of telling a story to illustrate the outcome of the outcome from making your own selfish outcomes God, versus making the selfless gracious compassionate slow to anger abounding in love and forgiveness attitude God. John 1:18 describes it well, especially when you understand the Farther / Son symbolism. It’s understandable how translators came up with Farther and Son, the original concept was, “ of similar nature”, or “of like character”. As you say, the 2x2 system goes to the extreme with its doctrine, but religion in general is far far removed from the Hebrew wisdom it claims to portray, and if you do the research you’ll find that it stems from man’s desire to control others.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 18, 2022 8:17:08 GMT -5
Congratulations on the publication of your book, the cumulation of a huge amount of research and many years of investigation for which many of us are very grateful. I think this book may turn out to be the closest thing there is to a definitive history of the 2x2 church and while the history of the sect is no longer the grubby secret it once was thanks to the internet, this book will do exactly what it says on the tin and preserve the true history of the 2x2 church in print. I think it’s a good thing that the term “Cooneyites”appears on the front cover as this helps to dispel one of the most enduring myths promoted by the 2x2 church, that the 2x2s aren’t the Cooneyites. It’s also good to see on the front cover a photograph of (a bearded) William Irvine. The last conversation I ever had with a worker involved him telling me that he “knew nothing about William Irvine” something I didn’t believe for a second. A man with a beard always has something to hide but there can be no hiding from the truth about Irvine and his 2x2 legacy now. Of course as one for whom truth is more important than belief it would be remiss of me not to point out that our religious conditioning in the 2x2 church encompassed much more than belief in the doctrines and teachings peculiar to the 2x2 church. It also included more mainstream Christian beliefs including belief in the bible, the Christian God, the resurrection, a returning Jesus, the immortal soul, Satan, heaven, hell, miracles, talking animals, angels, the power of prayer and a day of judgement where a supposedly just and caring God who supposedly loves us all will cast a huge proportion of us into everlasting hell on the basis of our unbelief in a God who insists on remaining completely invisible and for whom we can find no credible evidence of existence despite much searching. If we are truly interested in seeking truth we should subject all our religious beliefs to the same level of scrutiny and investigation as those of the 2x2 church and see how they stand up. A study of the true history of the New Testament and of the early Christian church is likely to be just as revealing and belief changing as the true history of the 2x2 church. And in the pursuit of truth we should never underestimate the power of religious conditioning, our capacity for being duped, our readiness to embrace religious myths, our ability to believe things that aren’t true and our willingness to blindly accept what our parents and religious leaders teach us. This book is a reminder of that and I look forwarding to reading it. Thanks for producing it. Matt10 Well said Matt10, religion has seriously messed with the ancient Hebrew wisdom regarding the best way to deal with life. And it starts with the common misunderstanding of just what and where “God” is. “God” is a pagan word which describes a deity or whatever is uppermost in your life, lots of things can be your God, but what the ancient Hebrews knew was that for the best outcome from whatever life dishes up, is to make the Gracious Compassionate character uppermost in dealing with it. There’s lots of pointers to this in scripture, once you have a little grasp of the Hebrew symbolic way of telling a story to illustrate the outcome of the outcome from making your own selfish outcomes God, versus making the selfless gracious compassionate slow to anger abounding in love and forgiveness attitude God. John 1:18 describes it well, especially when you understand the Farther / Son symbolism. It’s understandable how translators came up with Farther and Son, the original concept was, “ of similar nature”, or “of like character”. As you say, the 2x2 system goes to the extreme with its doctrine, but religion in general is far far removed from the Hebrew wisdom it claims to portray, and if you do the research you’ll find that it stems from man’s desire to control others. Matt10 - You helped immensely! and I am very appreciative of your help and the above comments.
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 8:40:32 GMT -5
I wonder, apart from what is likely the go to book about the 2x2 to date, what changes if any, will this book have on the 2x2?
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 10:16:32 GMT -5
Should the choices be: Founder, Finder, or Fraudsters?
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Post by Lee on Jun 18, 2022 11:55:49 GMT -5
My Dad recently accused me of being carnally minded when I challenged his devotion to the jerkers who’ve all gotten the jab. I said,
“You can’t pursue a discussion of the adverse side affects associated with the nonvaccine, profit-born vaccines, that may be installing tracking and chattelizing technology.”
Thank you for your book and research efforts, that have grounded the workers’ faith where they belong:
In the chronicles of mankind.
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Post by nathan02 on Jun 18, 2022 13:26:17 GMT -5
Should the choices be: Founder, Finder, or Fraudsters?
** The choice is finder... It was William Irvine pride, arrogant, misconduct, false teaching about Jesus coming in 1917, unrepentant attitude that lead to his down fall and excommunication from the ministry in 1914 and fellowship in 1917.
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 13:53:03 GMT -5
Should the choices be: Founder, Finder, or Fraudsters?
** The choice is finder... It was William Irvine pride, arrogant, misconduct, false teaching about Jesus coming in 1917, unrepentant attitude that lead to his down fall and excommunication from the ministry in 1914 and fellowship in 1917. Every wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions, when he was in your words (arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant)?
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Post by nathan02 on Jun 18, 2022 14:04:29 GMT -5
** The choice is finder... It was William Irvine pride, arrogant, misconduct, false teaching about Jesus coming in 1917, unrepentant attitude that lead to his down fall and excommunication from the ministry in 1914 and fellowship in 1917. Ever wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions, when he was in your words (arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant)?
** William Irvine down fall and many workers like him teach us/2×2s put your Faith and Trust in God, Christ and Holy Spirit leading first before any worker! Workers are humans and some will disappoint us and lead us in the wrong path if we worship them like many did with William Irvine. After William Irvine many follow him and others left the 2x2s. Some 2x2s believe that was the end of the 2x2s after William departure because he was the head of the whole thing! Well, the 2x2s prospers leaps and bounds. William Irvine lost out was a goog WAKE UP! Call for the 2x2s have their eyes focus on him instead on God, Christ and Holy Spirit. He was idolized too much by the 2x2s and workers.
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 14:14:49 GMT -5
Ever wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions, when he was in your words (arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant)?
** William Irvine down fall and many workers like him teach us/2×2s put your Faith and Trust in God, Christ and Holy Spirit leading first before any worker! Workers are humans and some will disappoint us and lead us in the wrong path if we worship them like many did with William Irvine. After William Irvine many follow him and others left the 2x2s. Some 2x2s believe that was the end of the 2x2s after William departure because he was the head of the whole thing! Well, the 2x2s prospers leaps and bounds. William Irvine lost out was a goog WAKE UP! Call for the 2x2s have their eyes focus on him instead on God, Christ and Holy Spirit. He was idolized too much by the 2x2s and workers. You are avoiding the question.... Ever wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions?
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Post by nathan02 on Jun 18, 2022 14:33:04 GMT -5
** William Irvine down fall and many workers like him teach us/2×2s put your Faith and Trust in God, Christ and Holy Spirit leading first before any worker! Workers are humans and some will disappoint us and lead us in the wrong path if we worship them like many did with William Irvine. After William Irvine many follow him and others left the 2x2s. Some 2x2s believe that was the end of the 2x2s after William departure because he was the head of the whole thing! Well, the 2x2s prospers leaps and bounds. William Irvine lost out was a goog WAKE UP! Call for the 2x2s have their eyes focus on him instead on God, Christ and Holy Spirit. He was idolized too much by the 2x2s and workers. You are avoiding the question.... Ever wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions?
** According to John Long Journal in 1898 where he praised William Irvine for his humility, a charismatic man of God with sound doctrine teacher! It was William Irvine humbleness, teachable childlike spirit that God had chosen him, John Long, Edward Cooney, Jack Carroll, and many others like them through the centuries to continue or carry on Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers itinerant ministry and New Testament fellowship in 21st century. However, some of these workers like king Saul in the old testament because of their Pride, and disobedience spirit took them out God's Truth and Way of Jesus.
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 14:55:06 GMT -5
** According to John Long Journal in 1898 where he praised William Irvine for his humility, a charismatic man of God with sound doctrine teacher!It was William Irvine humbleness, teachable childlike spirit that God had chosen him, John Long, Edward Cooney, Jack Carroll, and many others like them through the centuries to continue or carry on Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers itinerant ministry and New Testament fellowship in 21st century. However, some of these workers like king Saul in the old testament because of their Pride, and disobedience spirit took them out God's Truth and Way of Jesus. It seems strange to me that since god who had prior experience with the king Saul types, and foreknowing WI would go from, "humbleness, teachable childlike spirit" to "arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant", he would have picked a better candidate.
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Post by nathan02 on Jun 18, 2022 15:31:06 GMT -5
** According to John Long Journal in 1898 where he praised William Irvine for his humility, a charismatic man of God with sound doctrine teacher!It was William Irvine humbleness, teachable childlike spirit that God had chosen him, John Long, Edward Cooney, Jack Carroll, and many others like them through the centuries to continue or carry on Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers itinerant ministry and New Testament fellowship in 21st century. However, some of these workers like king Saul in the old testament because of their Pride, and disobedience spirit took them out God's Truth and Way of Jesus. It seems strange to me that since god who had prior experience with the king Saul types, and foreknowing WI would go from, "humbleness, teachable childlike spirit" to "arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant", he would have picked a better candidate.
God picked the right candidate William Irvine to teach His people to remember! Don't put any human being, worker, Popes, reverence before Him because the humans sometimes will let you down and take your faith from serving God.
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Post by xna on Jun 18, 2022 15:57:06 GMT -5
It seems strange to me that since god who had prior experience with the king Saul types, and foreknowing WI would go from, "humbleness, teachable childlike spirit" to "arrogant, misconduct, a false teacher about Jesus, and unrepentant", he would have picked a better candidate.
God picked the right candidate William Irvine to teach His people to remember! Don't put any human being, worker, Popes, reverence before Him because the humans sometimes will let you down and take your faith from serving God. That explains it well. Now I understand the Trump administration.😀
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Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2022 16:10:45 GMT -5
You are avoiding the question.... Ever wonder why god, who had this most important message chose William Irvine from among the millions?
** According to John Long Journal in 1898 where he praised William Irvine for his humility, a charismatic man of God with sound doctrine teacher! It was William Irvine humbleness, teachable childlike spirit that God had chosen him, John Long, Edward Cooney, Jack Carroll, and many others like them through the centuries to continue or carry on Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers itinerant ministry and New Testament fellowship in 21st century. However, some of these workers like king Saul in the old testament because of their Pride, and disobedience spirit took them out God's Truth and Way of Jesus. They woke up and realised that Irvine was not this humble, childlike person they had thought he was. As time went on his true character came out. Many have been fooled into thinking this was the NT fellowship but have woken up and seen the light. The group put a lot of effort into hiding the truth. The pride and disobedience belongs to those who tried to hide the beginnings and who continue with the fake claims. It takes an honest heart to admit to being fooled.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 18, 2022 16:40:55 GMT -5
My Dad recently accused me of being carnally minded when I challenged his devotion to the jerkers who’ve all gotten the jab. I said, “You can’t pursue a discussion of the adverse side affects associated with the nonvaccine, profit-born vaccines, that may be installing tracking and chattelizing technology.” Thank you for your book and research efforts, that have grounded the workers’ faith where they belong: In the chronicles of mankind. www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpFqMWmj9Oo
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Post by nathan02 on Jun 18, 2022 16:49:02 GMT -5
** According to John Long Journal in 1898 where he praised William Irvine for his humility, a charismatic man of God with sound doctrine teacher! It was William Irvine humbleness, teachable childlike spirit that God had chosen him, John Long, Edward Cooney, Jack Carroll, and many others like them through the centuries to continue or carry on Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers itinerant ministry and New Testament fellowship in 21st century. However, some of these workers like king Saul in the old testament because of their Pride, and disobedience spirit took them out God's Truth and Way of Jesus. They woke up and realised that Irvine was not this humble, childlike person they had thought he was. As time went on his true character came out. Many have been fooled into thinking this was the NT fellowship but have woken up and seen the light. The group put a lot of effort into hiding the truth. The pride and disobedience belongs to those who tried to hide the beginnings and who continue with the fake claims. It takes an honest heart to admit to being fooled. ** The workers didn't hide it! There are letters written in 1919 by different workers like Jack Carroll, Edward Cooney and a few from the early days workers about William Irvine beginning and his pride, misbehavior with women, false teachings on Jesus 2nd coming in 1917. William Irvine taught he was one of two witnesses in Rev. 11. The 2x2s is New Testament teaching just like we read in the gospels, the Acts of the apostles and the epistles. Harry BrownLee a worker said we 2x2s are the continuation of the new Testament in the 21st century and I agree, he is correct!
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Post by fixit on Jun 18, 2022 19:43:07 GMT -5
They woke up and realised that Irvine was not this humble, childlike person they had thought he was. As time went on his true character came out. Many have been fooled into thinking this was the NT fellowship but have woken up and seen the light. The group put a lot of effort into hiding the truth. The pride and disobedience belongs to those who tried to hide the beginnings and who continue with the fake claims. It takes an honest heart to admit to being fooled. ** The workers didn't hide it! There are letters written in 1919 by different workers like Jack Carroll, Edward Cooney and a few from the early days workers about William Irvine beginning and his pride, misbehavior with women, false teachings on Jesus 2nd coming in 1917. William Irvine taught he was one of two witnesses in Rev. 11. The 2x2s is New Testament teaching just like we read in the gospels, the Acts of the apostles and the epistles. Harry BrownLee a worker said we 2x2s are the continuation of the new Testament in the 21st century and I agree, he is correct! I agree with Grant - it takes an honest heart to admit to being fooled.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 18, 2022 20:57:02 GMT -5
Harry BrownLee a worker said we 2x2s are the continuation of the new Testament in the 21st century and I agree, he is correct! He is not correct. Harry Brownlee knew full well how, when and by whom the 2x2 sect started. His parents were the first ones to profess in California via Irvine Weir who entered the work in 1900. Excerpt from my book: 1903: First Workers Venture to America. Soon after the July Rathmolyon Convention, Wm Irvine and two young Brother Workers departed from Glasgow, Scotland, aboard the SS Columbia, on September 5, 1903, and arrived at the Ellis Island immigration station in New York on September 14. They were the first three Workers to set foot in the US: William Irvine (40), Scottish; George Walker (26), Irish and Irvine Weir (25) Irish. They sailed as steerage passengers, the least expensive ticket. (Ellis Island passenger records). 1904: James Irvine Weir. From New York, Weir arrived in California where he found lodging with a newly married couple, Clyde and Grace Brownlee. "Irvine Weir was the first Worker to come to California in 1904. He met Mr. and Mrs. Brownlee in December 1904, in Long Beach. Mr. Brownlee tried to help Weir with the Gospel Work for a while, but as the family increased, they advised him to establish a home and support his family" (Bone 1975, TTT). Their son was Brother Worker, Harry Brownlee, who entered the Work in 1934 and died in 2010.
Irvine Weir, one of the young men who entered the Work in 1900 recalled, "Then in October 1899, William Irvine, still in the Faith Mission, but not satisfied, got seven men and with himself WE toured Scotland using the Faith Mission converts to entertain us." Referring to the photograph taken of the young men on their bicycles, Weir announced that this "in my mind was the start of the work of William Irvine outside the Faith Mission" (Parker 1982, 37, Fn. 23). Irvine Weir was one of the young men. Presumably, Irvine Weir, was the first one to profess in the Weir family. The Carrolls had invited Irvine Weir to travel from Dublin to the Rathmolyon mission to meet the "rough Scotsman," Irvine. Subsequently, Weir went on the 1899 Bicycle Mission Trip to Scotland, was one of the first 12 Workers to enter the Work (in 1900), was one of the first three Workers to go to America (1903) and pioneered the Work in California before he was expelled around 1950. See Chapter 32. 1900: Twelve new Workers came on board in the UK and Ireland: nine Brothers (Willie Gill, Albert Quinn, Irvine Weir, John Sullivan, Ben Boles, John Hardie, Matthew Wilson, William Clelland, A. Alexander and possibly Samuel Boyd); and three Irish Sisters (Sarah Rogers, Emma and Jennie Gill), making a cumulative total of 18 or 19 new Workers.
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Post by nathan on Jun 18, 2022 21:04:04 GMT -5
I agree with Grant - it takes an honest heart to admit to being fooled. What William Irvine imparted to his converts the Faith Mission or Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic/workers New Testament ministry is still going forth today and still working like in the days of Jesus and the apostles through the centuries. William Irvine was a fool for NOT continuing what God has revealed to him, like Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silvers. William Irvine went off into the deep end due to his pride, fleshly lusts of women, false teachings the return of Jesus Christ in 1917.Dr. Jaenen the author of Apostles Doctrine book wrote: In March 1898, when Irvine was preaching in Borrisokane, in County Tipperary, Edward Cooney approach him, "each claiming the liberty to follow Jesus as (he) received progressive light from God by the Spirit." In June 1898, several of these workers, who were still affiliated with various denominations, met in Kilee to consider ministeral requisites as described in Matthew chapter 10 gospel and related scripture. Cognizant that these scriptures referred specificially to the messianic ministry among the Jews, they also concluded that the conditions for the ministry REMAIN Unchanging throughout the New Testament. The commission was broadened beyond Palestined, the special manifestations of healing and exorcism were fulfilled, but the requirement for apostolic ministry remained Unaltered. John Long, Fred Hughes, and William Irivine decided to launch out "by faith" like the Twelve apostles. Others joined them, including Edward Cooney, who gave up his job, renounced his inheritance, sold his possessions, distributed the money among the poor to become what became known as a "Tramp Preacher." Ben Boles, William Gill, Tom Turner, and John Sullivan gave up their employement to become poor, itinerant "Go-Preachers" completely dependent evangelists. In 1900 another group joined forces with them. Robert Hamilton and David Donaldson is Derrygonnelly became so dissatisfied with the ministry of Patrick O' Donavan in the Methodist church that they withdrew and started their own meetings in the Hamilton's home. Within three years of joining forces, their assembly produced Six persons who sold their possessions and went into the ministry. In 1901 a number of Todd's Christian workers joined forces with the "Tramps" or "Go-Preachers". William Irvine's experience and contacts, despite his sometimes erratic behavior, enable him to assume a leading role in the movement. So it was that a number of men and the women from various religious groups came together as the nucleus of what they believed to be a revival of an apostolic ministry. As the 2x2s Go-Preachers movement expanded beyond the Irish counties and the British Isles, a primitive hierarchy, or collective oversight by senior ministers, was established over the "fields" of an expanding world-wide community. This eventually gave the rise to questions of origins and founders.
There followed a situation not dissimilar to that challenging Inquisitors in the 12th and 13th Centuries who were Unable to determine who had founded the heresies they sought to Exterminate. The mediaeval heretics (Waldensians, Cathars, Lollards, Vaudois, etc) themselves were unaware of such founders and they believed that the preachers they knew were true apostles inasmuch as they lived according to evangelical precepts. The Irish revivals produced a similar situation because leadership was COLLECTIVE and evangelization was NOT carried out by Individuals. There is sufficient evidence to support the interpretation given by one of the original participants, George Walker (1898 Go-Preacher), presented to the American Selective Service in 1942. William Irvine and Edward Cooney were eventually expelled by their co-workers. William Irvine asserted, at one point, that he had personally FOUNDED the movement but it was a claim that was NEVER admitted generally by the community. It was a claim resurrected almost a century later by detractors of the movement who sought to associate it with one particular individual. In fact, AFTER William Irvine being excluded from the ministry 1914 for moral laxity, Irvine adopted outlandish millennialist theology, perhaps influenced by the theories of Charles Russel and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, and repair to Jerusalem where he waited the expected Second Advent in 1914, believing that he was one of the two faithful witnesses mentioned in Apocalypse (Revelation chapter 11). Excommunication of William Irvine 1914. In September 1914, William Irvine was ousted for some sort of scandal (sexual misconduct behaviors with married women) and he was teaching false doctrines. He had written many letters to the friends all over the USA and Canada to sell their homes, farms, and invest their money in railroads, fisheries, canneries, shipping, etc. He was under the awful delusion that he is one of the two witnesses of Revelations, Chapter 11, and prophesies a worldwide drought and famine beginning 8/1/1914. Or that they were in the Judgment day period of Revelations as of 8/4/1914; and that the time of mercy and grace was over, etc. It appears from 1918 William Irvine was in California until he left for Jerusalem in 11/1918 to wait for the Prophesies of Revelations Chapter 11, as one of the Lord's anointed ones. He died of throat cancer (from smoking) in Jerusalem in 1947. Letter #1 By Jack Carroll Warning Against Wm. Irvine's New Doctrine
April 16, 1919
My dear Brother or Sister: It is with the utmost sorrow of heart that I feel compelled to write you this letter. Feeling my responsibility towards all the lambs and sheep of His flock in California, (USA) and knowing some are worried and troubled because of recent developments I feel I must write you a few lines . During last few months, William Irvine has written many letter to saints all over U.S. and Canada urging them to sell their homes and farms and invest their money in Railroads, Fisheries, Canneries, Shipping, etc. He is under the awful delusion that he is one of the witnesses of Rev. 11 and prophesied a world wide drought and famine beginning August 1 of this year. (See Deut 18:21-22, we have only a little time to wait to prove whether this prophecy is correct or not). He is also under the delusion that the “day of grace ended in August 1914,” and that since that date “the voice of God has not been heard in any meeting on earth.” This means that, according to him none have been truly born again during the last four and a half years, and that the labors of all the workers in every field has been utterly in vain. We believe on the contrary, that during the last 4-1/2 years, in spite of greater difficulties than ever before, men and women were as truly born of God as in all the years before. It is just 4-1/2 years ago since the older workers in old country told William Irvine that they could no longer recognize him as leader, or again as being in the ministry unless there was a complete change in his manner of life. It is sad to see a man who was once used of God fall thus into “the snare of the devil” and perhaps will succeed as Hymenaeus and Philetus in “overthrowing the faith of some”.
Paul’s advice in 2 Timothy 2:16-18 is the counsel of God to all of us at that time. It has always been understood in the work that when a worker interferes with the financial or business affairs of the saints, he has departed from the faith. 2 Tim. 2:4; Luke 12:13,14. My purpose in writing is to earnestly urge you not to be influenced by his foolish speculations and prophecies, and not to listen to him or any others who would seek to seduce or lead astray, or to cause you in any way to take steps which would wreck your home and family and make you a stumbling block to others. When Paul was writing to young converts of the Lord’s Coming in 1 Thes 4:13-18 he did not exhort them to sell their homes and farms and invest their money in other properties, but rather to (v.11) “study to be quiet, to do their own business, work with their own hands, as we commanded you, that ye may walk honestly toward them that are without and have need of nothing”. This means that whether the Lord comes soon or later, it is the duty of the saints to carry on their business as always in the fear of the Lord, and with a desire to glorify His Name. In doing this they will “not be ashamed before Him at His coming”. His teaching on other matters is equally false and misleading and it is with much sorrow of heart that I have to add that my sister, May, W. Edwards, and wife have recently come again under the influence of William Irvine’s hypnotic personality, and for the time being at least, are deceived and not in a position to help or guide those who in simplicity of heart and true purpose seek to follow Jesus in the way. We feel that it would give those who have “gone astray” an opportunity to say they were “persecuted”, “oppressed”, “cast out” if we were to add more. Enough has been said to warn against the delusions mentioned, and we will be glad to hear from all who desire, and will value our help and fellowship in the coming months and years. You will understand a little of what it costs me to write this letter but I feel it is my duty as His servant to take the saints into my fullest confidence and assuring each and all of my love and honest desire to be a faithful shepherd, I commit you to the care of the Chief Shepherd, knowing that if you follow where He leads, you will not go astray. Your brother in His love and Service Jack Carroll
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