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Post by Grant on Jan 9, 2023 17:14:33 GMT -5
Again, what you say can also apply to non believers. People are jailed, persecuted, etc for their cause, nothing to do with being Christian. Your posts lack the ability to see things from both angles. Most cases can be reversed the other way too. We aren't talking about anything other than religion in these posts. Of course there are other causes that jail people. Atheists are jailed and executed for being atheists in some countries. The subject was about believers ranting on and on about hell etc and some here saying that's not what good Christians do. But the bible clearly does tell Christians to do what that guy was doing. Being a martyr is deemed a virtue in that religion and some other religions also. So yes, I can see it from other angles, it's just not what we are currently talking about here. We're talking about religions and at the moment Christianity which is known for their history of martyrs and it being a virtue. The pastor in the above video clearly states that Christians should practice confrontational evangelicalism. It's a requirement from the bible and considered a good thing to say things that get you persecuted because it shows just how 'holy' you really are if everyone is against you. In fact, he says that Christians that don't do it aren't saved anyway. People believe by being a martyr they will go to Paradise. Hell for them is not their goal. You trying to stop a conversation on looking at the opposite senario is noted. People use confrontation for many causes, nothing to do with religion. I have never heard that if you don't get persecuted you aren't saved. A non belief is a non belief so if a person doesn't believe in hell why is it an issue? I personally don't believe it's as clear cut as either heaven or hell.
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Post by mrdobalina on Jan 9, 2023 17:34:27 GMT -5
Most normal people with an interest hobby, or belief don't attempt to ram it down the throats of random strangers however. When did you last see a group of bikers shouting with a loudhailer at a gas station, threatening the public with violence from their leader, and the police protected the bikers? I have interests and hobbies, if people want to become involved with them they know what they are, and where to find me, I'm not going to threaten them and shout at them in the hope that they will take up my hobbies. That would be completely entitled and stupid of me, and surely turn more people away from said hobbies than attract them. Some on this board ram their non belief down peoples throats. Do i like the way some Christians present themselves on this board - No, but it goes both ways, non believers can be just as bad. The problem stems from the fact that the christian handbook encourages and apparently rewards this abhorrent behaviour.
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Post by intelchips on Jan 9, 2023 20:21:51 GMT -5
Some on this board ram their non belief down peoples throats. Do i like the way some Christians present themselves on this board - No, but it goes both ways, non believers can be just as bad. The problem stems from the fact that the christian handbook encourages and apparently rewards this abhorrent behaviour. I don’t much care for the word belief. For example I don’t believe in Electricity. However, if I get up close and personal with it then it's a fact. But don’t be like me, pay attention to peer review on the theory and you can forgo putting your finger in a socket to find out if your belief holds true.
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Post by fixit on Jan 10, 2023 2:23:33 GMT -5
The problem stems from the fact that the christian handbook encourages and apparently rewards this abhorrent behaviour. I don’t much care for the word belief. For example I don’t believe in Electricity. However, if I get up close and personal with it then it's a fact. But don’t be like me, pay attention to peer review on the theory and you can forgo putting your finger in a socket to find out if your belief holds true. One's belief is expressed in their behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 4:15:51 GMT -5
Again, what you say can also apply to non believers. People are jailed, persecuted, etc for their cause, nothing to do with being Christian. Your posts lack the ability to see things from both angles. Most cases can be reversed the other way too. Most normal people with an interest hobby, or belief don't attempt to ram it down the throats of random strangers however. When did you last see a group of bikers shouting with a loudhailer at a gas station, threatening the public with violence from their leader, and the police protected the bikers? I have interests and hobbies, if people want to become involved with them they know what they are, and where to find me, I'm not going to threaten them and shout at them in the hope that they will take up my hobbies. That would be completely entitled and stupid of me, and surely turn more people away from said hobbies than attract them. Ever been to a sports event?
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Post by mrdobalina on Jan 10, 2023 4:20:47 GMT -5
Most normal people with an interest hobby, or belief don't attempt to ram it down the throats of random strangers however. When did you last see a group of bikers shouting with a loudhailer at a gas station, threatening the public with violence from their leader, and the police protected the bikers? I have interests and hobbies, if people want to become involved with them they know what they are, and where to find me, I'm not going to threaten them and shout at them in the hope that they will take up my hobbies. That would be completely entitled and stupid of me, and surely turn more people away from said hobbies than attract them. Ever been to a sports event? Probably more often than you do. 2x2 dogma dosent approve of sports events.
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Post by Annan on Jan 10, 2023 6:16:32 GMT -5
I don’t much care for the word belief. For example I don’t believe in Electricity. However, if I get up close and personal with it then it's a fact. But don’t be like me, pay attention to peer review on the theory and you can forgo putting your finger in a socket to find out if your belief holds true. One's belief is expressed in their behaviour. Thank you. I keep saying that. No one listens. As to belief, I stopped saying that I believe this or that. These days I say something like, "I think... or my thoughts are..." The only thing I can say I truly believe in is that the sun will rise tomorrow. Of course, we all know that is not how it really happens.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 10, 2023 13:35:31 GMT -5
One's belief is expressed in their behaviour. Thank you. I keep saying that. No one listens. As to belief, I stopped saying that I believe this or that. These days I say something like, "I think... or my thoughts are..." The only thing I can say I truly believe in is that the sun will rise tomorrow. Of course, we all know that is not how it really happens. The sun rises because God has put it in its perfect place for us to live, as he has done with the moon and the stars. The reason this world is in such a bad way is because of what man is doing to it. We are wrecking the world we live in and then people blame God for everything that goes wrong. I read that during lockdown that the world and the atmosphere started to heal itself and the air quality etc improved, so that shows us that we are ruining the planet through greed, power, wars, pollution etc. If we truly cared for one another as Jesus taught us too it would be such a different place.
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Post by intelchips on Jan 10, 2023 14:37:33 GMT -5
Thank you. I keep saying that. No one listens. As to belief, I stopped saying that I believe this or that. These days I say something like, "I think... or my thoughts are..." The only thing I can say I truly believe in is that the sun will rise tomorrow. Of course, we all know that is not how it really happens. The sun rises because God has put it in its perfect place for us to live, as he has done with the moon and the stars. The reason this world is in such a bad way is because of what man is doing to it. We are wrecking the world we live in and then people blame God for everything that goes wrong. I read that during lockdown that the world and the atmosphere started to heal itself and the air quality etc improved, so that shows us that we are ruining the planet through greed, power, wars, pollution etc. If we truly cared for one another as Jesus taught us too it would be such a different place. Oh, dear so many wrong thinking people just because it fits their need to see a rose picture. Sometimes over the years we don’t remember all we once thought we knew. Example: Dr. William Dever at the University of Washington 1985 once lectured the following: He lays out precisely why we cannot and should never trust "biblical archaeology." What is that? Simply put: The archaeology based around the bible prior to the mid 1970's. Why? Because it was the DEFINITION of bias: Christian institutions or Christian funded expeditions usually sending ordained scholars to the Middle East with "A shovel in one hand and a bible in the other." -Just about any apologist you'll ever encounter who has the capacity to cite any archaeological points will be doing so from these men and their outmoded and debunked conclusions from the 1920's/30's. Men who were reacting to intense biblical criticism coming from scholars in Europe. Men determined to prove the bible...whether the actual evidence existed or NOT. Now here we are this many years later and act as if we never heard of this before.
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Post by snow on Jan 10, 2023 14:54:56 GMT -5
We aren't talking about anything other than religion in these posts. Of course there are other causes that jail people. Atheists are jailed and executed for being atheists in some countries. The subject was about believers ranting on and on about hell etc and some here saying that's not what good Christians do. But the bible clearly does tell Christians to do what that guy was doing. Being a martyr is deemed a virtue in that religion and some other religions also. So yes, I can see it from other angles, it's just not what we are currently talking about here. We're talking about religions and at the moment Christianity which is known for their history of martyrs and it being a virtue. The pastor in the above video clearly states that Christians should practice confrontational evangelicalism. It's a requirement from the bible and considered a good thing to say things that get you persecuted because it shows just how 'holy' you really are if everyone is against you. In fact, he says that Christians that don't do it aren't saved anyway. People believe by being a martyr they will go to Paradise. Hell for them is not their goal. You trying to stop a conversation on looking at the opposite senario is noted. People use confrontation for many causes, nothing to do with religion. I have never heard that if you don't get persecuted you aren't saved. A non belief is a non belief so if a person doesn't believe in hell why is it an issue? I personally don't believe it's as clear cut as either heaven or hell. It appears that you are trying to divert the conversation to include all people instead of what the conversation was about. Christians telling non believers that they will go to hell if they don't get right with God. That waters down the essence of the current conversation based on the two videos openingact presented. That is what I am addressing. If you listen to the video from the pastor he says that Christians that don't confront aren't saved anyway. That's where I got that from, the video, which we are discussing. The issue isn't about hell if you are a non believer. Why do you keep asking that? The issue is people in your face always repeating it over and over. This isn't about heaven or hell, it's about the in your face delivery by some Christians. The point was that those confrontational Christians aren't doing anything wrong, they are actually doing what the bible asks them to do. That's what the conversation is about, not everyone in the world that has a cause.
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Post by snow on Jan 10, 2023 15:00:03 GMT -5
Thank you. I keep saying that. No one listens. As to belief, I stopped saying that I believe this or that. These days I say something like, "I think... or my thoughts are..." The only thing I can say I truly believe in is that the sun will rise tomorrow. Of course, we all know that is not how it really happens. The sun rises because God has put it in its perfect place for us to live, as he has done with the moon and the stars. The reason this world is in such a bad way is because of what man is doing to it. We are wrecking the world we live in and then people blame God for everything that goes wrong. I read that during lockdown that the world and the atmosphere started to heal itself and the air quality etc improved, so that shows us that we are ruining the planet through greed, power, wars, pollution etc. If we truly cared for one another as Jesus taught us too it would be such a different place. While we differ in our thoughts about god, I very much agree with you that we are the cause of a lot of damage to this earth. I too saw where it has been documented how much the air cleaned up and animals were coming back into the small towns etc. We need to take much better care of the only home we have so our children's children can enjoy it too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 15:16:45 GMT -5
Ever been to a sports event? Probably more often than you do. 2x2 dogma dosent approve of sports events. Not in the PNW....good try though..
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Post by mrdobalina on Jan 10, 2023 19:10:57 GMT -5
Probably more often than you do. 2x2 dogma dosent approve of sports events. Not in the PNW....good try though.. Oh of course, I forgot that the rules are location dependant. Its all a bit of a shambles really isint it.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 11, 2023 9:08:51 GMT -5
The sun rises because God has put it in its perfect place for us to live, as he has done with the moon and the stars. The reason this world is in such a bad way is because of what man is doing to it. We are wrecking the world we live in and then people blame God for everything that goes wrong. I read that during lockdown that the world and the atmosphere started to heal itself and the air quality etc improved, so that shows us that we are ruining the planet through greed, power, wars, pollution etc. If we truly cared for one another as Jesus taught us too it would be such a different place. Oh, dear so many wrong thinking people just because it fits their need to see a rose picture. Sometimes over the years we don’t remember all we once thought we knew. Example: Dr. William Dever at the University of Washington 1985 once lectured the following: He lays out precisely why we cannot and should never trust "biblical archaeology." What is that? Simply put: The archaeology based around the bible prior to the mid 1970's. Why? Because it was the DEFINITION of bias: Christian institutions or Christian funded expeditions usually sending ordained scholars to the Middle East with "A shovel in one hand and a bible in the other." -Just about any apologist you'll ever encounter who has the capacity to cite any archaeological points will be doing so from these men and their outmoded and debunked conclusions from the 1920's/30's. Men who were reacting to intense biblical criticism coming from scholars in Europe. Men determined to prove the bible...whether the actual evidence existed or NOT. Now here we are this many years later and act as if we never heard of this before. There is literal and there is spiritual, not everything in the bible is literal the scriptures have deeper spiritual meanings also
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Post by maryhig on Jan 11, 2023 9:30:27 GMT -5
The sun rises because God has put it in its perfect place for us to live, as he has done with the moon and the stars. The reason this world is in such a bad way is because of what man is doing to it. We are wrecking the world we live in and then people blame God for everything that goes wrong. I read that during lockdown that the world and the atmosphere started to heal itself and the air quality etc improved, so that shows us that we are ruining the planet through greed, power, wars, pollution etc. If we truly cared for one another as Jesus taught us too it would be such a different place. While we differ in our thoughts about god, I very much agree with you that we are the cause of a lot of damage to this earth. I too saw where it has been documented how much the air cleaned up and animals were coming back into the small towns etc. We need to take much better care of the only home we have so our children's children can enjoy it too. Yes here in Wales the goats were coming down into our towns from the mountains, and they didn't seem afraid of people at all. It's so strange, we are not in lockdown here now and the goats are staying up the mountains more even though our towns are still quite quiet in the winter. You would think they would still come down when it's quiet but they very rarely do. Here's a picture that I took when we went out and about for a drive one day, I was really close too.
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