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Post by Grant on Jul 12, 2021 20:47:03 GMT -5
Out of the meetings for 30 years means have not attended nor would want to or know where they are. You’re the reason this country has to put directions on shampoo. Hopefully instructions on a shampoo bottle are clearer than you are. Nathan and I both mentioned 30 years and then you write 30 with a question mark after it. By referring to 30 years it appears to be questioning something that has been written. That is now 3 things connected to 30 years. I have been out over 30 years and I sure know what professing means. You sound like a grumpy old man.
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Post by verna on Jul 12, 2021 21:17:31 GMT -5
You did not give scripture for either one of your allegations, Nathan!
All you say I "will find out after I I am dead!" ' Nathan, You are purporting to be a Christian yet you are not even quoting the bible! You are claiming all kinds of things not even in the bible!
Just who do you believe that you are that you are allowed to make up your own scriptures?
** 2000 yrs ago, The RCC left out 100s books/scriptures out of the Bible. They didn't know about the existence Jesus teachings written in the dead Sea Scrolls found in 1950s. The bible is ONLY 4000 years old history mostly of the Chidren of Israel. We have no 2000 yrs history added to the Bible. The Bible is NOT a complete God's history book and NOT all scriptures books were included. If the Bible is God’s book don’t you think he should have been able to make it complete and correct? Are you suggesting “man” may have something to do with what’s written in the Bible?
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 21:54:57 GMT -5
Hey NATE! You keep saying that in the beginning that the workers preached the trinity. Then you say the younger workers started preaching non-trinity. Those must have been the workers that visited my parents' home, as I was taught that the trinity was a pagan catholic belief. So... I am asking you to show me proof of what you claim. Show me sermons where the early workers taught the trinity. NOT SCRIPTURE! Show me sermons where the younger workers preached non-trinity. I apologize if you posted this before. I don't read your epistles. Still waiting! John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote: William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. 2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit."
3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975 You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them. 4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958 God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.”
5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005 "One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. " 6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... "Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?~~ Nathan B: Dan Hilton was a senior worker, a well respected Bible student in Washington State and California, USA. He was on Calf. and Washington State staff for many years... This is what Dan Hilton preached/taught for many years when I was in living in Washington State. The workers on the staff just passed on what they heard from the Senior workers had taught them through the years without doing a serious study themselves... Dan Hilton The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century.
[Washington 1985] Dan Hilton Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity.
[Manhattan MT Conv 1996] Who is Jesus Christ??? -- According to Willis Propp!!! April 12, 1992 Question from Dale - OK, may I ask you this question tonight? Now, that is one of the basic fundamentals that you believe that we have to understand, because there are other Jesus' and if we believe that “Jesus was God” that would be incorrect?
The reply from Willis Propp, (“Head Worker” of the Province of Alberta, Canada) in his own words. Reply from Willis - The Catholics think they're one person, like the rosary prayer is holy Mary mother of God, holy Mary mother of God, and that is wrong because Jesus is not God. Jesus was the Son of God. John 8 says, I proceeded forth and came from God, I proceeded forth from God so He was the only begotten Son of the Father. He wasn't God, He was the Son of God.
Reply from Willis - Yes, if you look at the original of John 1:1 it says he was a god. He was divine. You cannot reconcile a father and a son as one person, you can’t do that. - - -COMMENT- - - Comment: Son of God – son of man Mr. Propp states “He (Jesus) wasn't God, He was the Son of God.”
So, let us reason together: If a man has a son, is that son any less human than his father? NO! If the Father (who is God) has a Son, is that Son any less God than His Father? NO!
Another Comment: God plus a god? Mr. Propp states, “…if you look at the original of John 1:1, it says he was a god.”
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 21:56:15 GMT -5
Out of the meetings for 30 years means have not attended nor would want to or know where they are. You’re the reason this country has to put directions on shampoo. hahaha, You are too smart and witty for these people, Q.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 12, 2021 22:03:54 GMT -5
Out of the meetings for 30 years means have not attended nor would want to or know where they are. You’re the reason this country has to put directions on shampoo. Well, re your first statement. Your friend will have you roasting in the eternal furnace, while he is looking down on you sizzling away. I choose my friends a little different.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 22:19:23 GMT -5
Out of the meetings for 30 years means have not attended nor would want to or know where they are. You’re the reason this country has to put directions on shampoo. Well, re your first statement. Your friend will have you roasting in the eternal furnace, while he is looking down on you sizzling away. I choose my friends a little different. Wally and I let God be the judge of Q... He seems to have a good heart and spirit of things. God will show him mercy on the day of judgement. He loves the Lord God Jesus and have the right kind of attitudes.
God and Christ KNOW Q's heart and situation better than any of us. They are righteous and just God. God will be fair to Q.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 12, 2021 22:22:05 GMT -5
Well, re your first statement. Your friend will have you roasting in the eternal furnace, while he is looking down on you sizzling away. I choose my friends a little different. Wally and I let God be the judge of Q... He seems to have a good heart and spirit of things. God will show him mercy on the day of judgement. He loves the Lord God Jesus and have the right kind of attitudes.
I somehow think Wally doesn't share in your enthusiasm or trust in QX. But you must drag his name along.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 22:24:50 GMT -5
Wally and I let God be the judge of Q... He seems to have a good heart and spirit of things. God will show him mercy on the day of judgement. He loves the Lord God Jesus and have the right kind of attitudes.
I somehow think Wally doesn't share in your enthusiasm or trust in QX. But you must drag his name along. hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 12, 2021 22:26:52 GMT -5
Beam me up Scotty
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Post by verna on Jul 12, 2021 22:38:51 GMT -5
I somehow think Wally doesn't share in your enthusiasm or trust in QX. But you must drag his name along. hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7.Is this the new math - 3 are one and now 3 are seven.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 22:57:55 GMT -5
hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7. Is this the new math - 3 are one and now 3 are seven. There are 4 more= 7 God's perfect number.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 23:00:42 GMT -5
I somehow think Wally doesn't share in your enthusiasm or trust in QX. But you must drag his name along. hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7.hhahahaha have you ever seen the movies "the magnificent 7" or "the 7 samurai"? 2 small groups take on large mobs and win, but at a heavy price...
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 23:17:30 GMT -5
** 2000 yrs ago, The RCC left out 100s books/scriptures out of the Bible. They didn't know about the existence Jesus teachings written in the dead Sea Scrolls found in 1950s. The bible is ONLY 4000 years old history mostly of the Chidren of Israel. We have no 2000 yrs history added to the Bible. The Bible is NOT a complete God's history book and NOT all scriptures books were included. If the Bible is God’s book don’t you think he should have been able to make it complete and correct? Are you suggesting “man” may have something to do with what’s written in the Bible? God gives us enough information to receive Salvation through believing in Christ Jesus as our Savior is the MOST important part of the Bible. Yes, it was RCC leadership cannon the Bible/66 books.
However, they left out many books which are filled in the missing pieces from the Bible like the book of Enoch and other books also.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 12, 2021 23:19:57 GMT -5
hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7. hhahahaha have you ever seen the movies "the magnificent 7" or "the 7 samurai"? 2 small groups take on large mobs and win, but at a heavy price... Brilliant analogy, Nathan's imagination compared to fiction. Well done Wally.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 23:20:01 GMT -5
hahaha.... we are all good friends now... FYI.... We are the magnificent of 7. hhahahaha have you ever seen the movies "the magnificent 7" or "the 7 samurai"? 2 small groups take on large mobs and win, but at a heavy price... It will be worth it at the end, Wally... the crowns of life are awaiting for us everlasting prize with God and Christ for eternity.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 12, 2021 23:21:14 GMT -5
If the Bible is God’s book don’t you think he should have been able to make it complete and correct? Are you suggesting “man” may have something to do with what’s written in the Bible? God gives us enough information to receive Salvation through believing in Christ Jesus as our Savior is the MOST important part of the Bible. Yes, it was RCC leadership cannon the Bible/66 books.
However, they left out many books which are filled in the missing pieces from the Bible like the book of Enoch and other books also.
How come you keep knocking the Catholic Church when your hero Ngô Đình Diệm was one of them.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 23:39:12 GMT -5
God gives us enough information to receive Salvation through believing in Christ Jesus as our Savior is the MOST important part of the Bible. Yes, it was RCC leadership cannon the Bible/66 books.
However, they left out many books which are filled in the missing pieces from the Bible like the book of Enoch and other books also.
How come you keep knocking the Catholic Church when your hero Ngô Đình Diệm was one of them. RCC is the woman riding the beast and the 40,000 plus Protestants denominations are her daughters in the book of Revelation.... Read Rev. chapters 17-18 then you understand why I left them. God told me to get the heck out of dodge before it too late.
Rev. 18: 4-5 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 12, 2021 23:42:59 GMT -5
How come you keep knocking the Catholic Church when your hero Ngô Đình Diệm was one of them. RCC is the woman riding the beast in the book of Revelation.... Read Rev. chapters 17-18 then you understand why I left them. God told me to get the heck out of dodge before it too late.
Rev. 18: 4-5 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."
As usual, you have not answered the question put to you.
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Post by nathan on Jul 12, 2021 23:44:45 GMT -5
RCC is the woman riding the beast in the book of Revelation.... Read Rev. chapters 17-18 then you understand why I left them. God told me to get the heck out of dodge before it too late.
Rev. 18: 4-5 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."
As usual, you have not answered the question put to you. President Ngo dinh Diem is a goner for supporting the beast/Vatican.
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Post by Annan on Jul 13, 2021 7:11:29 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Jul 13, 2021 8:24:53 GMT -5
You are welcome. Glad to be of any help.
1) Moline wrote: Hi Nathan, We as earthly beings find this difficult to comprehend however the bible makes it clear. I have never have heard a worker handle the Deity of Christ well, yet in the early days of the movement, Eddie Cooney and William Irvine clearly believed in a Triune God. It seems that over the years, one would assume, because of a LACK of sound doctrinal teaching, many basics of the scripture are NOT well understood by the Current 2x2s leaderships and the friends. 2) Dec 14, 2019 Gill said: If I understand correctly, the first workers to leave Ireland/England/Scotland etc. were mostly trinitarian. When did this change? Was there a desire to be different from the world and they saw this anti-trinitarian stance as a way to be different? Did Eldon Tenniswood move the west coast towards a more anti-trinitarian position?3) RossB wrote: It's clear from the early hymns (in their Go Preachers' Hymnbook) that the early workers believed in a triune God. If you track this through to 1951 (Hymns Old and New update) they clearly still believed in a triune God.This seemed to change with Eldon Tenniswood and co between the 1951 and 1987 hymnbook when clearly different doctrine (and in my view false doctrine) set in amongst the senior workers. In this period, the power base for the 2x2's shifted from England to the US - hence the latest and current hymnbook was produced in CA. The tombstone of Sam Jones, the most prolific hymnwriter in the 2x2's refers to the line in one of his hymns "....the God who died for me". Clearly, a belief that the Son was God.Edward Cooney was clearly not anti-trinitarian. He would have hardly agreed to the inclusion of the following verse of the hymn (#71) "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed..." in the Go-Preachers hymnbook if he didn't believe in a triune God. O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee.
Likewise, the hymn "When I survey the wondrous cross..." refers to Christ my God - in the Go Preachers hymnbook (and the 1951 O&N but subsequently changed in 1987). Furthermore, in 1952, just eight years before he died, Edward Cooney wrote "now will conclude by greeting all who desire to be children of God in the conceit of our hearts saying: "I am of Christ," for Jesus never said "I am of Christ," but claimed to be the Son of God. He always claimed that God was his Father; and that although he was the mighty God, his Father was mightier and greater than he." (my emphasis added in bold). Source: Patricia Roberts' book Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 Edward Cooney is clearly not going to write very specific words about Jesus being mighty God, if he did not believe it. Based on his writings, he was very clear in what he believed. A strong theme through his writings is that redemption/atonement for our sins is only available through Christ's blood that was shed on Calvary and eternal life through His resurrection. 4) NathanB wrote: Amen, Ross! what most of the current workers and friends don't UNDERSTAND is, the Sunday Morning meetings coming together is to WORSHIP the Godhead/TRINITY or the Triune God= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit. When the early days workers set up the Sunday morning meetings for themselves and the friends in 1903, most of them were Trinitarians believers. So, how can they PREACH anti-Trinity. Anti Christ is NOT God doctrine when the current workers and friends still KEEP the TRINITY or TRIUNE Sunday morning WORSHIP gathering from the early days workers?
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Qxmen
Senior Member
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery....
Posts: 305
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Post by Qxmen on Jul 13, 2021 20:00:42 GMT -5
Out of the meetings for 30 years means have not attended nor would want to or know where they are. You’re the reason this country has to put directions on shampoo. Well, re your first statement. Your friend will have you roasting in the eternal furnace, while he is looking down on you sizzling away. I choose my friends a little different. I apologize for your misunderstanding, I did not come here to make friends with you!
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Qxmen
Senior Member
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery....
Posts: 305
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Post by Qxmen on Jul 13, 2021 20:03:27 GMT -5
Is this the new math - 3 are one and now 3 are seven. There are 4 more= 7 God's perfect number. so true numbers are the language of the universe!
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Qxmen
Senior Member
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery....
Posts: 305
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Post by Qxmen on Jul 13, 2021 20:46:56 GMT -5
You have miles to go before you reach mediocre.
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Qxmen
Senior Member
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery....
Posts: 305
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Post by Qxmen on Jul 13, 2021 22:24:17 GMT -5
Wally and I let God be the judge of Q... He seems to have a good heart and spirit of things. God will show him mercy on the day of judgement. He loves the Lord God Jesus and have the right kind of attitudes.
I somehow think Wally doesn't share in your enthusiasm or trust in QX. But you must drag his name along. WOW! now your trying to speak for Wally? you will need to acquire some intelligence long before you do that, and that sounds like a you problem.
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Post by rejoicing on Jul 24, 2021 17:53:02 GMT -5
not all Christian denominations are right that is impossible. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That WHOSOEVER believeth on him should not perish. Salvation is by grace through faith. Faith is also a gift from God. Seems to me that it isnt about churches or sects, denominations; but about the individuals. Jesus hates sectatarism and denominationalisms. It separates people and only people do that to themselves. Besides it is like Jesus told his disciples, Apostles; you didnt choose me, I chose you. Seems God has to choose to deal within a person before they can receive the gift of faith. He draws them to his Son.
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Post by rejoicing on Jul 24, 2021 17:59:44 GMT -5
The question is Nathan which teachings you choose to adhere to. Seems all pick and choose. Plus there there is much contradiction. This is not necessarily a criticism of God/Jesus but remaining cognizant of the fact that the Bible was written by man complicated even more by translation. I prefer a personal relationship. *** Jesus Christ gospels teachings and the New Testament ministry and fellowship. Once you are born again, God the Father grant you the Holy Spirit and He opens your understanding of the scriptures in any translations. When you understand Jesus teachings then you will have deep and meaningful relationship with God the Father, Christ/God and the Holy Spirit/God. That is God's method or way of doing things most of the time. Actually being born again is when we gain the Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit that births us again. Being born by the Spirit. Or some say in the Spirit. All those things that are called the fruit of the Spirit, they are the Spirit's fruit not ours, that are borne within us. We dont show forth our fruit, but show forth the fruit of the Spirit.
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Dec 31, 2022 16:22:06 GMT -5
In our State= Christian Assemblies of Australia,the name as vendor when the balance of :Their'Gonvention Ground was Austioned? Also when that name hit the media they changed it to 'Chritian Conventions of Australia' revoked when the Gov't legislated that any organization with any paedophile/rape victims they will be responsable for compensation to the victim!! They rushed to suddenly claim they were not an organization. And to cancel their Benevolent Welfare status the claiming a tax exemption because they cared for the needy,etc? If you said we had no property or name regardless to it being a terrible lie,no one would correct you,especially the 3x Trustees, A few years ago 2x Workers were jailed for their paedophile sins. As a victim,I could name both men/women in many numbers,so could others. Mention any of the above you were branded a trouble maker,if you kept it up you were judged and classed for excommunication,whick under the Irving 2x2 doctorine you are going to "hell" This is right isn't it? If you disagree they have you blinded also? Christianity is one Religion sadly divided,but an individuals relationship with God is their most important thing isn't it? Also a bit like the Etheopian Unic,how will I know unless somebody tells me? When we moved into a congregation of about 200 we have only come across 2x that had knowledge of the 2x2's and they reffered to them a Coonetites.Ones cousin back in the late 40's was belted by his father with a shovel when he found out he was homosexual that young man later entered into the 2x2 ministry. Not a false religion but a false doctrine,and the fact we were liars by default or knowledge,that was ministry accepted. And those who questioned it were branded trouble makers,think about it? A cousin wanted to return so entered a Convention ground. Tom Turner said Send him away a and tell him is brother is not welcomed either"THIS IS FACT",the prodical son was embraced on his return wasn't he? But under the 2x2's Irving doctrine the son would have been sent away and the selfritous son would have been embraced. Reason for leaving to have a more useful open walk with God and knowing the Holy Spirit as your guide and teacher. This is not a dolling but a fact.After you leave that lot they avouid you in the Street like a plague,if you do run into them try quoting a bit of edifying scripture encouragement,"Reaction"== ??
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