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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 8:25:30 GMT -5
What do you think fire and brimstone meant to these people?. The Wrath of God! The wrath of God is the consequences of our own selfish actions to the Hebrew people. Romans 1 for example. To you fire and brimstone is the wrath of god, to the Hebrew people fire and brimstone is purification. radical-reaction.com/lol/index.htmlThis is why I say you need to study the Hebrew people, you have just applied two ideas in ways that are incorrect and foreign to the writers and these people, and you accuse me of being dangerous.......
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Post by Annan on Jun 29, 2021 8:33:09 GMT -5
The wrath of God is the consequences of our own selfish actions to the Hebrew people. Romans 1 for example. To you fire and brimstone is the wrath of god, to the Hebrew people fire and brimstone is purification. radical-reaction.com/lol/index.htmlThis is why I say you need to study the Hebrew people, you have just applied two ideas in ways that are incorrect and foreign to the writers and these people, and you accuse me of being dangerous....... My father‘s family is of Jewish heritage. Even though my father was a 2 x 2, he had a lot of Jewish traits and thoughts and mannerisms and well everything that goes along with being Jewish. I agree with you that unless you are born and raised Jewish you don’t understand the the culture. The things I read on here at times make me laugh because people totally don’t understand the Bible as it pertains to Judaism and the customs of the day. I keep my mouth shut because I figure I won’t be able to make them understand. Let them live in their own little world. They are happy there.
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Post by shushy on Jun 29, 2021 8:48:54 GMT -5
LEO STANCLIFF: "My hope of salvation is the blood of Christ. But I would like to explain to you what it means. The blood of Christ is the ministry and the church in the home. Without the New Testament ministry you don’t have the blood of Christ which includes the church in the home. The forgiveness of sins is a fringe benefit." [1981] "There are two things upon which the Truth of God rests, Jesus gave us the ministry and a way of fellowship. Now the ministry is the foundation of Christianity." [Sacramento California, 1980] Translation...You need us, we are your salvation....... Idolatry
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 16:45:39 GMT -5
The wrath of God is the consequences of our own selfish actions to the Hebrew people. Romans 1 for example. To you fire and brimstone is the wrath of god, to the Hebrew people fire and brimstone is purification. radical-reaction.com/lol/index.htmlThis is why I say you need to study the Hebrew people, you have just applied two ideas in ways that are incorrect and foreign to the writers and these people, and you accuse me of being dangerous....... My father‘s family is of Jewish heritage. Even though my father was a 2 x 2, he had a lot of Jewish traits and thoughts and mannerisms and well everything that goes along with being Jewish. I agree with you that unless you are born and raised Jewish you don’t understand the the culture. The things I read on here at times make me laugh because people totally don’t understand the Bible as it pertains to Judaism and the customs of the day. I keep my mouth shut because I figure I won’t be able to make them understand. Let them live in their own little world. They are happy there. So I'm curious, did he go for the whole supernatural theme or not?. To me the supernatural Idea of God is trying to be faded out by Jesus?
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Post by Annan on Jun 29, 2021 17:21:02 GMT -5
So I'm curious, did he go for the whole supernatural theme or not?. To me the supernatural Idea of God is trying to be faded out by Jesus? Very supernatural. He rarely mentions Jesus. In fact I can’t remember the last time he ever said Jesus name or even use the term Christ. It’s always God.
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Post by speak on Jun 29, 2021 20:24:03 GMT -5
ELDON TENNISWOOD: "Until people are willing to lay aside all former teaching, become as a little child, they never will understand the Truth as taught by Jesus in word and deed." [January 17, 1971] FROM NOTES: "We shun all publicity for any written material could get into the wrong hands. We must protect ourselves." [worker, Boston Massachusetts Special Meeting, April 21, 1985] "You can only profess through our group. You cannot know our Heavenly Father through the traditional church." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "You must receive the Lord and you do this through the power of one of us." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "Frankly, I don’t know what the doctrine is." [brother worker, Kelso Washington, 1978] "We should not associate with anyone outside our group for they are influenced by evil power. That may even include your natural family. We are your real family." [Elder brother worker, Los Angeles California, March 10, 1985] "We are God’s chosen people. Our main objectives are to serve the workers, attend gospel meetings and conventions and honor The Truth." [Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10 1985] "Most of our converts come from the traditional church. That clearly shows us how lacking the Church is and it is up to us to show them the true Narrow Way. Our gospel is a way of life." [Senior worker, Los Angeles California Special Meeting, March 10, 1985] Holy Crap.......Translation.... God complex.... You gave yourself away No follower of Christ would say [highlighted]
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 21:17:15 GMT -5
ELDON TENNISWOOD: "Until people are willing to lay aside all former teaching, become as a little child, they never will understand the Truth as taught by Jesus in word and deed." [January 17, 1971] FROM NOTES: "We shun all publicity for any written material could get into the wrong hands. We must protect ourselves." [worker, Boston Massachusetts Special Meeting, April 21, 1985] "You can only profess through our group. You cannot know our Heavenly Father through the traditional church." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "You must receive the Lord and you do this through the power of one of us." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "Frankly, I don’t know what the doctrine is." [brother worker, Kelso Washington, 1978] "We should not associate with anyone outside our group for they are influenced by evil power. That may even include your natural family. We are your real family." [Elder brother worker, Los Angeles California, March 10, 1985] "We are God’s chosen people. Our main objectives are to serve the workers, attend gospel meetings and conventions and honor The Truth." [Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10 1985] "Most of our converts come from the traditional church. That clearly shows us how lacking the Church is and it is up to us to show them the true Narrow Way. Our gospel is a way of life." [Senior worker, Los Angeles California Special Meeting, March 10, 1985] Holy Crap.......Translation.... God complex.... You gave yourself away No follower of Christ would say [highlighted] Why?.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 0:34:57 GMT -5
*** My work on TMB is more important than any charity works in this world. You are welcome to do the charity volunteer works, more power to you. Nathan, I'm curious. I've read in many places in my Bible of the importance of charity. Who exactly is your "target audience" here on the TMB ?? The exes? Those in the fellowship? The happy atheists? Those who are just now discovering this board & the info? Or just random visitors who find this site in error? You've spent years and uncounted hours researching and posting your understandings on the universe and God. I'm not criticizing the way you spend your spare time, just stating a fact. Our world is full of hurting, needy marginalized people; often through no fault of their own. I can't think of a more positive and loving way to help those people than through volunteer work - aka charity. I'm questioning your statement: My work on TMB is more important than any charity works in this world People are DYING due to lack or health care, clean drinking water, food and shelter. I challenge you to offer to "ring the bells on the kettle" this upcoming Christmas for the Salvation Army. Or donate to your local food bank. I guarantee you'll get a warm fuzzy feeling in your heart, and not one word of criticism. that struck me odd too. But not unexpected.
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 30, 2021 0:36:41 GMT -5
You gave yourself away No follower of Christ would say [highlighted] Why?. One of our senior workers swore profusely in front of children during convention preps. Go figure.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 30, 2021 0:42:49 GMT -5
Nathan, I'm curious. I've read in many places in my Bible of the importance of charity. Who exactly is your "target audience" here on the TMB ?? The exes? Those in the fellowship? The happy atheists? Those who are just now discovering this board & the info? Or just random visitors who find this site in error? You've spent years and uncounted hours researching and posting your understandings on the universe and God. I'm not criticizing the way you spend your spare time, just stating a fact. Our world is full of hurting, needy marginalized people; often through no fault of their own. I can't think of a more positive and loving way to help those people than through volunteer work - aka charity. I'm questioning your statement: My work on TMB is more important than any charity works in this world People are DYING due to lack or health care, clean drinking water, food and shelter. I challenge you to offer to "ring the bells on the kettle" this upcoming Christmas for the Salvation Army. Or donate to your local food bank. I guarantee you'll get a warm fuzzy feeling in your heart, and not one word of criticism. that struck me odd too. But not unexpected. Quite often charities here do back ground checks before a person is allowed to be a helper. It may be the same in the USA. Perhaps that could be a problem for Nathan.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 30, 2021 0:55:25 GMT -5
The wrath of God is the consequences of our own selfish actions to the Hebrew people. Romans 1 for example. To you fire and brimstone is the wrath of god, to the Hebrew people fire and brimstone is purification. radical-reaction.com/lol/index.htmlThis is why I say you need to study the Hebrew people, you have just applied two ideas in ways that are incorrect and foreign to the writers and these people, and you accuse me of being dangerous....... My father‘s family is of Jewish heritage. Even though my father was a 2 x 2, he had a lot of Jewish traits and thoughts and mannerisms and well everything that goes along with being Jewish. I agree with you that unless you are born and raised Jewish you don’t understand the the culture. The things I read on here at times make me laugh because people totally don’t understand the Bible as it pertains to Judaism and the customs of the day. I keep my mouth shut because I figure I won’t be able to make them understand. Let them live in their own little world. They are happy there. SO TRUE.
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2021 5:34:18 GMT -5
One of our senior workers swore profusely in front of children during convention preps. Go figure. Apart from the fact some people might find it distasteful or it is inappropriate in a given situation I don't see why it's a big deal, it's only been made a big deal by religion....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 10:44:36 GMT -5
"context" this for me without 2x2ism.... "Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... I think it's pretty clear. I remember when I started actually listening to the message... I realized that the excuses and word games I allowed in my mind to justify their ignorant, errant BS would sound ridiculous if I heard someone else use it with their "one true w/Way [disclaimer: Way is Jesus, we're the way, everyone else the world, we don't judge of course]". Then I learned this little trick... 2x2: "why you leave?" Me: "I don't agree with (xyz)." 2x2: "The friends and workers don't either, really" Me: "Then why do they preach it?" 2x2: I've never heard that preached... you're just hearing what you want to hear." Me: "'xyz' preached by this overseer and/or head worker at [time/date]." 2x2: "You need to stop focusing on people and focus on Jesus." Me: "I did. That's why we left this group." 2x2: "You're bitter." After that little pattern played out in various renditions a few times, I learned that it's pointless talking about things to most folks.
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 10:53:34 GMT -5
show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... I think it's pretty clear. I remember when I started actually listening to the message... I realized that the excuses and word games I allowed in my mind to justify their ignorant, errant BS would sound ridiculous if I heard someone else use it with their "one true w/Way [disclaimer: Way is Jesus, we're the way, everyone else the world, we don't judge of course]". Then I learned this little trick... 2x2: "why you leave?" Me: "I don't agree with (xyz)." 2x2: "The friends and workers don't either, really" Me: "Then why do they preach it?" 2x2: I've never heard that preached... you're just hearing what you want to hear." Me: "'xyz' preached by this overseer and/or head worker at [time/date]." 2x2: "You need to stop focusing on people and focus on Jesus." Me: "I did. That's why we left this group." 2x2: "You're bitter." After that little pattern played out in various renditions a few times, I learned that it's pointless talking about things to most folks. So well said. It’s crazy making. Gaslighting I think. Telling you what you see and hear is not true/real.
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Post by Annan on Jun 30, 2021 11:31:17 GMT -5
I think it's pretty clear. I remember when I started actually listening to the message... I realized that the excuses and word games I allowed in my mind to justify their ignorant, errant BS would sound ridiculous if I heard someone else use it with their "one true w/Way [disclaimer: Way is Jesus, we're the way, everyone else the world, we don't judge of course]". Then I learned this little trick... 2x2: "why you leave?" Me: "I don't agree with (xyz)." 2x2: "The friends and workers don't either, really" Me: "Then why do they preach it?" 2x2: I've never heard that preached... you're just hearing what you want to hear." Me: "'xyz' preached by this overseer and/or head worker at [time/date]." 2x2: "You need to stop focusing on people and focus on Jesus." Me: "I did. That's why we left this group." 2x2: "You're bitter." After that little pattern played out in various renditions a few times, I learned that it's pointless talking about things to most folks. So well said. It’s crazy making. Gaslighting I think. Telling you what you see and hear is not true/real. Or like my dad says, "I don't believe it." Guess you just called me liar.
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 12:34:46 GMT -5
So well said. It’s crazy making. Gaslighting I think. Telling you what you see and hear is not true/real. Or like my dad says, "I don't believe it." Guess you just called me liar. Can you explain please Annan? I’m not understanding your comment. What I read is that you think I called you a liar - but I sense that’s not what you mean.
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Post by Annan on Jun 30, 2021 13:30:41 GMT -5
Or like my dad says, "I don't believe it." Guess you just called me liar. Can you explain please Annan? I’m not understanding your comment. What I read is that you think I called you a liar - but I sense that’s not what you mean. Oh no! I meant I feel that my dad is calling me a liar. Sorry for the confusion!
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 14:02:41 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse?
Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong.
So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there.
I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 30, 2021 15:19:39 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse? Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong. So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible. Verna, why respect people who lie. They crave respect. It feeds their ego and narcissism. In my view they should be treated with the ridicule that matches their ridiculous statements. Ignoring them is not doing a service to other people. The last thing i would want is other gullible people to start believing Nathan's hollow earth crap or Shushi's sushi.
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 15:41:22 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse? Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong. So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible. Verna, why respect people who lie. They crave respect. It feeds their ego and narcissism. In my view they should be treated with the ridicule that matches their ridiculous statements. Ignoring them is not doing a service to other people. The last thing i would want is other gullible people to start believing Nathan's hollow earth crap or Shushi's sushi. I guess I believe abusive people were often also abused, people who hurt were hurt. Also catch more bees with honey - or however that saying goes. It’s hard to have a dialogue when people are screaming “obscenities” but I do agree with you to an extent. It’s utterly ridiculous in the extreme cases (I don’t think I need to name names) but i also believe that there are good kind people who just don’t understand the hurt that is perpetrated. I do not want to step on people’s souls. It’s a tenuous line for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:06:14 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse? Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong. So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible. everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 30, 2021 18:26:12 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse? Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong. So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible. everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason. ...and you, wally, are just as "welcome to stay the "truth" the "rest of your life" if you like!
No one is asking you to "coddle us or pat us on the back!" In fact you can just bugger off & leave us alone!
We know what we went through and what we know now and you can't take that away from us.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:32:47 GMT -5
everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason. In fact you can just bugger off & leave us alone!
right back at ya sunshine...
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 18:35:20 GMT -5
Ok The last comments have got me thinking. I wanted to start a new thread called “truthfully speaking” but I’m not sure how so I will just add it here. My thoughts were triggered by Annan’s dad’s statement “I don’t believe you”. I have been making a concerted effort to treat everyone who posts here respectfully. I am pleased that I seem to maintain a belief in the basic goodness of every person. However I’m not really being honest and perhaps this makes me part of the problem. When is it our responsibility to stand up to lies and abuse? Now I suspect many discount spiritual abuse - it’s not really that bad. Well imagine this. A person - a parent or someone in power (person A) threatens repeatedly to severely beat a person (person B) - over and over and over again - if they do not do what they are told. Person B lives in perpetual fear, lacks any confidence to rebel/leave because the person in power has either isolated him/her or is in cahoots with those around so that person B has no one to turn to. Perhaps he/she even has come to believe he/she deserves to be beaten. Of course person A has told person B that this is for his/her own good. Person A may or may not have even lifted a hand. I would call that abuse - wouldn’t you? Wrong, wrong, wrong. So a different instance - a person is told from birth that they will burn in excruciating hell - weeping and nashing of teeth- FOREVER!!! - if they do not conform to the TRUTH. Everyone around you believes it is so. There is no where to turn. It doesn’t feel right but everyone tells you it is so. You cannot question. You cannot leave. This is abuse. When you say it is God/Jesus who says these things - not your responsibility- it even heightens the level of abuse because the power differential is increased. Makes the threat of a simple physical beating seem rather small. It is abuse. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I came onto this board to understand what happened to me that caused me so much despair. I am seeing it more clearly now because I see it continuing to happen. People being threatened with hell over and over and over again because of a book that contradicts itself on a regular basis. I by the way am doing fine - I am finding my way. I came on this board also out of a concern for young people like I was whose only “crime” is trying to follow what the workers say to the letter and finding themselves in crisis with nowhere to go for help and feeling they are to blame. I’m sure they are out there. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone but I am going to start standing up and calling out abuse and lies when I see it. I realize that we may have irreconcilable differences but I am here to speak my truth as kindly as possible. everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason. Case in point. This folks is one of the classic answers. Missed the point entirely. There has got to be a better way!!! Is this the only tool of the trade? “Leave if you like but it’s hell for you”. Try as I may I cannot see how this is Christlike. Baffling.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 18:47:05 GMT -5
everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason. Case in point. This folks is one of the classic answers. Missed the point entirely. There has got to be a better way!!! Is this the only tool of the trade? “Leave if you like but it’s hell for you”. Try as I may I cannot see how this is Christlike. Baffling. Christ is the best way. he never held back on speaking the truth why should we?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 30, 2021 18:59:01 GMT -5
everyone is welcome to leave the "truth" anytime they like. many do. everyone is welcome to leave christianity too. many do and many will. hard to do? sure...but don't expect it to be condoned, coddled or patted on the back. there are 2 very real destinations in all of our futures that would be heaven or hell. you can't really speak about one without speaking about the other Christ didn't neglect either. the end is called the great and terrible day for a reason. Case in point. This folks is one of the classic answers. Missed the point entirely. There has got to be a better way!!! Is this the only tool of the trade? “Leave if you like but it’s hell for you”. Try as I may I cannot see how this is Christlike. Baffling. You will soon learn that Wally insists on answering every post possible! I think he must stay up at night for fear that he has missed a post.
He wants the last word! Even if it is something as nonsensical as "right back at ya sunshine..."
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Post by verna on Jun 30, 2021 19:13:30 GMT -5
Case in point. This folks is one of the classic answers. Missed the point entirely. There has got to be a better way!!! Is this the only tool of the trade? “Leave if you like but it’s hell for you”. Try as I may I cannot see how this is Christlike. Baffling. Christ is the best way. he never held back on speaking the truth why should we? [ Because you are walking on other people’s souls. That, in my opinion, is sacred space.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 19:14:13 GMT -5
Case in point. This folks is one of the classic answers. Missed the point entirely. There has got to be a better way!!! Is this the only tool of the trade? “Leave if you like but it’s hell for you”. Try as I may I cannot see how this is Christlike. Baffling. Christ is the best way. he never held back on speaking the truth why should we? Before you say anything apply the test in your mind. “Is it true; is it kind, or is it necessary?” Socrates
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