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Post by nathan on Jun 28, 2021 21:25:54 GMT -5
Because in your atheist and an unbeliever mind you believe it's a scam, anything do with God or Christ. You present your finding and I will present mine finding, let the readers decide who is the scammer you or me.
So you ignore facts if they are presented by an atheist. If the senior worker from your church told you it was a scam, would you also tell them they are wrong Well, the senior worker presents his finding was a scam and I present mine it wasn't a scam at all and let us and the readers compare who is the scammer. 6/17/19 Mountain/RAM wrote: Anyway, I have to say that you are a very hard man to fool, Nathan. You meticulously research anything before you will believe it as fact. Such screening makes it very difficult to convince you of anything. I'm sure many on this board will share my views regarding your proneness to detail and doubting. Therefore I would strongly advise anyone who doubts anything that you post, that they likewise venture on the quest of meticulous research before doing so. You've set the standard. Let others follow. Just as the gondolier seldom encounters rabbits in his pathway, so too let your detractors encounter discrepancy with what you present as genuine. Consider Nathan. An extremely intelligent character, who carries out meticulous research before presenting his views on here. Basically he is second to none. Have you noticed that there are several atheists on this board and every time Nathan engages them he wipes the floor with their arguments. Have you ever considered that these atheists are mere concoctions of Nathan, whom he shoots down time and again with his views, leaving himself the master of the debate. Generally there is no contest. Nathan wins hands down every time. They have no answer to him. Have you ever wondered why that is?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 28, 2021 21:28:43 GMT -5
So you ignore facts if they are presented by an atheist. If the senior worker from your church told you it was a scam, would you also tell them they are wrong Well, the senior worker presents his finding was a scam and I present mine it wasn't a scam at all and let us and the readers compare who is the scammer. Can you name one reader on here who believes your version of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Can you name any bible scholars who believe your version of the Dead Sea Scrolls?
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 21:55:58 GMT -5
He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVAt Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment.He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. - Acts 10:1-2 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts10:1-2&version=NIVAll of Matthew 25 is about generosity/tzedakah, even the oil..... This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: - 1 John 3:16-19 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John3:16-19&version=NIVNathan this is why you should try to understand what these Hebrew writers may have actually been saying.....Because you are in direct contradiction to the Narrative of scripture..... You work on TMB is for a selfish endeavour..... you even told us so.....if you want to be a follower of Christ you may want to do a 180 on this statement... "My work on TMB is more important than any charity works in this world" Scripture disagrees with you..... Fruits of repentance are.... “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.” - Luke 3:10-11 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke3:10-11&version=NIVYour works are the least important, not the most..... We will see in Eternity, chuck.... Saving souls or doing good charities works... Charities works END at the graves.
Jesus said in Luke 15:7 In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent. Or what woman who has ten silver coins and loses one of them does not light a lamp, sweep her house, and search carefully until she finds it?…
~~ I help the poor and needy at work all the time, I give money the homeless in Portland, I give/donate things to goodwill. I give money to the workers, and to the needy friends... but more importantly I care for their souls, which live forever.
What was the fruits of repentance again.....oh that's right righteousness/generosity, not converting people to follow your traditions and rituals..... You own examples contradict what your trying to preach.....you are not preaching for fruits of repentance, you are preaching conversion rhetoric to get your(selfishness) rewards in heaven because you read it all literally which leads you to think unless you do xyz you'll burn in some inferno under the ground..... your not even in the same ball park as scripture....
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 22:00:58 GMT -5
EVERETT SWANSON:
Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." [1969] "We can always judge the state of a person’s salvation by his attitude towards the Workers." [1985] "There comes a time when you must believe in a man. If there is a disagreement between us, one of us is not saved. We are to have faith in the faith of Jesus." [Redmond Oregon Special Meeting, 1990
Translation, you need us, we are your salvation if you don't agree with us your not saved, you must believe in us or your not saved as we come between you and Christ.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 22:04:32 GMT -5
We will see in Eternity, chuck.... Saving souls or doing good charities works... Charities works END at the graves.
Jesus said in Luke 15:7 In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent. Or what woman who has ten silver coins and loses one of them does not light a lamp, sweep her house, and search carefully until she finds it?…
~~ I help the poor and needy at work all the time, I give money the homeless in Portland, I give/donate things to goodwill. I give money to the workers, and to the needy friends... but more importantly I care for their souls, which live forever.
What was the fruits of repentance again.....oh that's right righteousness/generosity, not converting people to follow your traditions and rituals..... You own examples contradict what your trying to preach.....you are not preaching for fruits of repentance, you are preaching conversion rhetoric to get your(selfishness) rewards in heaven because you read it all literally which leads you to think unless you do xyz you'll burn in some inferno under the ground..... your not even in the same ball park as scripture.... *your own *you are trying *you are not believe in Christ, repent, Obey God and bare fruit....nothing in there about doing nothing...all scriptural...
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 22:06:39 GMT -5
ELDON TENNISWOOD: "Until people are willing to lay aside all former teaching, become as a little child, they never will understand the Truth as taught by Jesus in word and deed." [January 17, 1971] FROM NOTES: "We shun all publicity for any written material could get into the wrong hands. We must protect ourselves." [worker, Boston Massachusetts Special Meeting, April 21, 1985] "You can only profess through our group. You cannot know our Heavenly Father through the traditional church." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "You must receive the Lord and you do this through the power of one of us." [Senior brother worker, Los Angeles California Special Meetings, March 10, 1985] "Frankly, I don’t know what the doctrine is." [brother worker, Kelso Washington, 1978] "We should not associate with anyone outside our group for they are influenced by evil power. That may even include your natural family. We are your real family." [Elder brother worker, Los Angeles California, March 10, 1985] "We are God’s chosen people. Our main objectives are to serve the workers, attend gospel meetings and conventions and honor The Truth." [Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10 1985] "Most of our converts come from the traditional church. That clearly shows us how lacking the Church is and it is up to us to show them the true Narrow Way. Our gospel is a way of life." [Senior worker, Los Angeles California Special Meeting, March 10, 1985]
Holy Crap.......
Translation.... God complex....
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 22:10:51 GMT -5
So you ignore facts if they are presented by an atheist. If the senior worker from your church told you it was a scam, would you also tell them they are wrong Well, the senior worker presents his finding was a scam and I present mine it wasn't a scam at all and let us and the readers compare who is the scammer. 6/17/19 Mountain/RAM wrote: Anyway, I have to say that you are a very hard man to fool, Nathan. You meticulously research anything before you will believe it as fact. Such screening makes it very difficult to convince you of anything. I'm sure many on this board will share my views regarding your proneness to detail and doubting. Therefore I would strongly advise anyone who doubts anything that you post, that they likewise venture on the quest of meticulous research before doing so. You've set the standard. Let others follow. Just as the gondolier seldom encounters rabbits in his pathway, so too let your detractors encounter discrepancy with what you present as genuine. Consider Nathan. An extremely intelligent character, who carries out meticulous research before presenting his views on here. Basically he is second to none. Have you noticed that there are several atheists on this board and every time Nathan engages them he wipes the floor with their arguments. Have you ever considered that these atheists are mere concoctions of Nathan, whom he shoots down time and again with his views, leaving himself the master of the debate. Generally there is no contest. Nathan wins hands down every time. They have no answer to him. Have you ever wondered why that is?
Self righteousness......who reposts people pumping up your own tyres..... How does one win when they start with a false premise.....🤔
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 22:12:16 GMT -5
EVERETT SWANSON: Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." [1969] "We can always judge the state of a person’s salvation by his attitude towards the Workers." [1985] "There comes a time when you must believe in a man. If there is a disagreement between us, one of us is not saved. We are to have faith in the faith of Jesus." [Redmond Oregon Special Meeting, 1990 Translation, you need us, we are your salvation if you don't agree with us your not saved, you must believe in us or your not saved as we come between you and Christ..... without context its about as useful as teats on a bull...
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 22:15:41 GMT -5
EVERETT SWANSON: Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." [1969] "We can always judge the state of a person’s salvation by his attitude towards the Workers." [1985] "There comes a time when you must believe in a man. If there is a disagreement between us, one of us is not saved. We are to have faith in the faith of Jesus." [Redmond Oregon Special Meeting, 1990 Translation, you need us, we are your salvation if you don't agree with us your not saved, you must believe in us or your not saved as we come between you and Christ..... without context is about as useful as teats on a bull... Ahhhh but we know the context because we know 2x2ism....... Pity they or you dont know the context of the writer's perspective....as then we wouldn't need 2x2ism or any other religion for that matter.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 22:29:01 GMT -5
without context is about as useful as teats on a bull... Ahhhh but we know the context because we know 2x2ism....... Pity they or you dont know the context of the writer's perspective....as then we wouldn't need 2x2ism or any other religion for that matter..... i know everett swanson quite well he's been in our field many times...heard many of his gospel, sunday morning, convention, and special meetings "context" over the years. try again...
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 22:36:02 GMT -5
Ahhhh but we know the context because we know 2x2ism....... Pity they or you dont know the context of the writer's perspective....as then we wouldn't need 2x2ism or any other religion for that matter..... i know everett swanson quite well he's been in our field many times...heard many of his gospel, sunday morning, convention, and special meetings "context" over the years. try again... "context" this for me without 2x2ism.... "Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker."
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Post by verna on Jun 28, 2021 22:42:50 GMT -5
without context is about as useful as teats on a bull... Ahhhh but we know the context because we know 2x2ism....... Pity they or you dont know the context of the writer's perspective....as then we wouldn't need 2x2ism or any other religion for that matter..... These quotes certainly reflect the gospel according to the workers that I grew up with. I recall listening to many of these workers’ impassioned sermons. Made me feel so special and in awe of the workers. I thought it was all true!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 22:43:16 GMT -5
i know everett swanson quite well he's been in our field many times...heard many of his gospel, sunday morning, convention, and special meetings "context" over the years. try again... "context" this for me without 2x2ism.... "Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try.....
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 28, 2021 22:48:03 GMT -5
"context" this for me without 2x2ism.... "Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... These are just convention gems. I remember you posting some without the whole accompanying sermon or testimonies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 22:53:35 GMT -5
show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... These are just convention gems. I remember you posting some without the whole accompanying sermon or testimonies. true, but then i did not ask anyone to figure out the rest of the sermon/context from a one liner.
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 23:10:44 GMT -5
"context" this for me without 2x2ism.... "Scripture is not the Word of God until it is spoken by a Worker." show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... How could you spin this to mean anything but what it say's?, there is no language difference, no cultural difference, we know what 2x2ism is as it's been spoon fed to us..... I let you make up any sermon you want to try and context this in a non God complex way.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 23:14:55 GMT -5
show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... How could you spin this to mean anything but what it say's?, there is no language difference, no cultural difference, we know what 2x2ism is as it's been spoon fed to us..... I let you make up any sermon you want to try and context this in a non God complex way..... like i said, show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try.....
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 23:21:45 GMT -5
How could you spin this to mean anything but what it say's?, there is no language difference, no cultural difference, we know what 2x2ism is as it's been spoon fed to us..... I let you make up any sermon you want to try and context this in a non God complex way..... like i said, show me the whole sermon where this was mentioned plus the link source and i'll give it a try..... What you can't dream up a way to spin this favourably?.
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Post by chuck on Jun 28, 2021 23:30:19 GMT -5
It seems this Everette chap is a bit dishonest....
EVERETTE SWANSON'S SERMON - 1986 The following thoughts were prompted after reviewing a transcript of Everett Swanson's sermon of Friday afternoon July 11, 1986 at the Georgetown, Texas convention. Mr. Swanson's intent, it seems, was to express his appreciation for the unchanging foundations of the 2x2 church, and demonstrate that the 2x2 Church is Christ's "true way", by implying that other churches are constantly changing, hypocritical, and greedy. Everett first attempted to show that other denominations are false because their "foundations" have changed. I have frequently heard such attacks directed at the Mormon and Catholic Churches, but Everett chose to focus on the Salvation Army. Specifically, Everett said: "Anyway, a woman came to the door and she had been weeping. She excused herself and poured out her heart. She said, 'For thirty years' I have belonged to the Salvation Army and now the foundations are destroyed. I have been an officer in the church and put my heart and soul into this.' All she could do was sit and weep. She said that for every dollar donated to the Salvation Army, it used to be that eighty cents went to others and twenty cents went to the church; now it's in reverse -- eighty cents goes to the church and twenty cents goes to others. I'm sure it's changed even more since that conversation."
After reading these remarks, I felt compelled to check the facts and called the local headquarters of the Salvation Army. Apparently only 12% of donations are dedicated to administration with the remaining 88% of funding going to various charitable outreach programs. Not only was this information quickly and cheerfully volunteered, I was sent an annual report that documented the breakdown of spending. Unfortunately such accountability (or cheerfulness in regards to $$$!!!) doesn't exist in the 2x2 church. However, it is clear that virtually 100% of funding is dedicated to supporting the workers -- and 0% to charitable outreach programs. Everett owes the Salvation Army an apology for his misinformed and slanderous remarks. And if he really felt like the Salvation Army was just out to support itself, I wonder how he feels about his own ministry? I would like to think that Everett is capable of spiritual growth. And if his objections to the Salvation Army are based on the misinformation he propagated at Georgetown, perhaps he will now reconsider his opinion of his and other Christian organizations that are routinely slandered by the 2x2's. He should at least check his premises. In any case, my point is not to defend the Salvation Army, but simply to point out the 2x2's proclivity for unfairly slandering other denominations. In my experience, many people have been so affected by years of 2x2 slander, that they consider all Churches to be full of malicious, money-grubbing hypocrites. In my opinion the 2x2's repetitive attacks on other religious denominations prohibit most current 2x2's from having fellowship with other bodies of believers. In addition to inculcating negative feelings towards other denominations, in my experience it was common to contrast other denominations which were "false" or "hypocritical" with the 2x2 church which was all good all the time -- and then draw the conclusion that the 2x2 way was therefore Christ's one and only "true way." True to form, Everett immediately proceeded to relate another conversation with two brother workers: "... I asked one of them with whom I'm bunking, 'You heard the Gospel in 1919?' He said, 'That is so.' I said, 'Has there any teaching or doctrine changed since that time?' Instantly, he answered me, 'Not one bit.' I cannot tell you personally what it means to me to be in this convention and realize that we have a foundation, a sure corner stone that's founded on Christ and it never will change. The Holy Spirit is giving us the same teachings as those two men heard first in 1919. The foundation is not found in the people, it's in the Son of God."
Everett goes on to say, amongst other things that: "The miracle is on the other side of obedience. As soon as we take the step in faith, we have proof and we don't need to go through life wondering if this is the true Gospel and doctrine of Christ and way of Christ. We are sure this is the foundation of God."
And: "We're sorry to say that there are so many spilled lives. A young man twenty seven years of age said to us after several gospel meetings, 'I know this is right, but right now I have a business and I am not ready yet....' We stood by his open casket a while later.... His girlfriend stood there by his open grave and said, 'My boyfriend told me this is the Truth. He said he wasn't ready yet...' That was a few years ago and he's still not ready yet."
It seems to me that Everett demonstrated a large void in his understanding of the 2x2's history and doctrine and/or he simply wasn't being honest with himself and the few thousand people gathered at Georgetown that year. Not surprisingly, he topped off his equivocations and request for obedience with an implicit threat of a lost eternity for all who are not part of Christ's "true way."
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Post by bluejay on Jun 28, 2021 23:41:30 GMT -5
He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVAt Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment.He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. - Acts 10:1-2 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts10:1-2&version=NIVAll of Matthew 25 is about generosity/tzedakah, even the oil..... This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: - 1 John 3:16-19 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John3:16-19&version=NIVNathan this is why you should try to understand what these Hebrew writers may have actually been saying.....Because you are in direct contradiction to the Narrative of scripture..... You work on TMB is for a selfish endeavour..... you even told us so.....if you want to be a follower of Christ you may want to do a 180 on this statement... "My work on TMB is more important than any charity works in this world" Scripture disagrees with you..... Fruits of repentance are.... “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.” - Luke 3:10-11 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke3:10-11&version=NIVYour works are the least important, not the most..... We will see in Eternity, chuck.... Saving souls or doing good charities works... Charities works END at the graves.
Jesus said in Luke 15:7 In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent. Or what woman who has ten silver coins and loses one of them does not light a lamp, sweep her house, and search carefully until she finds it?…
~~ I help the poor and needy at work all the time, I give money the homeless in Portland, I give/donate things to goodwill. I give money to the workers, and to the needy friends... but more importantly I care for their souls, which live forever.
Nathan - you said in your above reply: ~~ I help the poor and needy at work all the time, I give money the homeless in Portland, I give/donate things to goodwill.I believe your giving to the poor, needy and homeless (as you shared above) is extending your love of God through your actions. I'm happy to know you also reach out to those in your city.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2021 0:02:25 GMT -5
It seems this Everette chap is a bit dishonest.... EVERETTE SWANSON'S SERMON - 1986 The following thoughts were prompted after reviewing a transcript of Everett Swanson's sermon of Friday afternoon July 11, 1986 at the Georgetown, Texas convention. Mr. Swanson's intent, it seems, was to express his appreciation for the unchanging foundations of the 2x2 church, and demonstrate that the 2x2 Church is Christ's "true way", by implying that other churches are constantly changing, hypocritical, and greedy. Everett first attempted to show that other denominations are false because their "foundations" have changed. I have frequently heard such attacks directed at the Mormon and Catholic Churches, but Everett chose to focus on the Salvation Army. Specifically, Everett said: "Anyway, a woman came to the door and she had been weeping. She excused herself and poured out her heart. She said, 'For thirty years' I have belonged to the Salvation Army and now the foundations are destroyed. I have been an officer in the church and put my heart and soul into this.' All she could do was sit and weep. She said that for every dollar donated to the Salvation Army, it used to be that eighty cents went to others and twenty cents went to the church; now it's in reverse -- eighty cents goes to the church and twenty cents goes to others. I'm sure it's changed even more since that conversation." After reading these remarks, I felt compelled to check the facts and called the local headquarters of the Salvation Army. Apparently only 12% of donations are dedicated to administration with the remaining 88% of funding going to various charitable outreach programs. Not only was this information quickly and cheerfully volunteered, I was sent an annual report that documented the breakdown of spending. Unfortunately such accountability (or cheerfulness in regards to $$$!!!) doesn't exist in the 2x2 church. However, it is clear that virtually 100% of funding is dedicated to supporting the workers -- and 0% to charitable outreach programs. Everett owes the Salvation Army an apology for his misinformed and slanderous remarks. And if he really felt like the Salvation Army was just out to support itself, I wonder how he feels about his own ministry? I would like to think that Everett is capable of spiritual growth. And if his objections to the Salvation Army are based on the misinformation he propagated at Georgetown, perhaps he will now reconsider his opinion of his and other Christian organizations that are routinely slandered by the 2x2's. He should at least check his premises. In any case, my point is not to defend the Salvation Army, but simply to point out the 2x2's proclivity for unfairly slandering other denominations. In my experience, many people have been so affected by years of 2x2 slander, that they consider all Churches to be full of malicious, money-grubbing hypocrites. In my opinion the 2x2's repetitive attacks on other religious denominations prohibit most current 2x2's from having fellowship with other bodies of believers. In addition to inculcating negative feelings towards other denominations, in my experience it was common to contrast other denominations which were "false" or "hypocritical" with the 2x2 church which was all good all the time -- and then draw the conclusion that the 2x2 way was therefore Christ's one and only "true way." True to form, Everett immediately proceeded to relate another conversation with two brother workers: "... I asked one of them with whom I'm bunking, 'You heard the Gospel in 1919?' He said, 'That is so.' I said, 'Has there any teaching or doctrine changed since that time?' Instantly, he answered me, 'Not one bit.' I cannot tell you personally what it means to me to be in this convention and realize that we have a foundation, a sure corner stone that's founded on Christ and it never will change. The Holy Spirit is giving us the same teachings as those two men heard first in 1919. The foundation is not found in the people, it's in the Son of God." Everett goes on to say, amongst other things that: "The miracle is on the other side of obedience. As soon as we take the step in faith, we have proof and we don't need to go through life wondering if this is the true Gospel and doctrine of Christ and way of Christ. We are sure this is the foundation of God." And: "We're sorry to say that there are so many spilled lives. A young man twenty seven years of age said to us after several gospel meetings, 'I know this is right, but right now I have a business and I am not ready yet....' We stood by his open casket a while later.... His girlfriend stood there by his open grave and said, 'My boyfriend told me this is the Truth. He said he wasn't ready yet...' That was a few years ago and he's still not ready yet." It seems to me that Everett demonstrated a large void in his understanding of the 2x2's history and doctrine and/or he simply wasn't being honest with himself and the few thousand people gathered at Georgetown that year. Not surprisingly, he topped off his equivocations and request for obedience with an implicit threat of a lost eternity for all who are not part of Christ's "true way." I heard a very dishonest sermon once here in NZ by a visiting worker who from memory was English. He recounted a story about going into a shop and seeing a an old man, then he realized it was himself he was seeing in a mirror. Maybe I was the only one there other than that visiting worker that reads George Bernard Shaw but he told exactly the same story and it was told even before this visiting worker was out of nappies. To recount a story as if it was ones own is incredibly dishonest. It makes a mockery of the word testimony. Which reminds me of how Nathan used to operate years ago on here by cutting and pasting stuff from a religious website. He never gave them acknowledgment for it and was snapped by an astute member of TMB. Caught lying once you lose all credibility for ever.
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 1:14:34 GMT -5
It seems this Everette chap is a bit dishonest.... EVERETTE SWANSON'S SERMON - 1986 The following thoughts were prompted after reviewing a transcript of Everett Swanson's sermon of Friday afternoon July 11, 1986 at the Georgetown, Texas convention. Mr. Swanson's intent, it seems, was to express his appreciation for the unchanging foundations of the 2x2 church, and demonstrate that the 2x2 Church is Christ's "true way", by implying that other churches are constantly changing, hypocritical, and greedy. Everett first attempted to show that other denominations are false because their "foundations" have changed. I have frequently heard such attacks directed at the Mormon and Catholic Churches, but Everett chose to focus on the Salvation Army. Specifically, Everett said: "Anyway, a woman came to the door and she had been weeping. She excused herself and poured out her heart. She said, 'For thirty years' I have belonged to the Salvation Army and now the foundations are destroyed. I have been an officer in the church and put my heart and soul into this.' All she could do was sit and weep. She said that for every dollar donated to the Salvation Army, it used to be that eighty cents went to others and twenty cents went to the church; now it's in reverse -- eighty cents goes to the church and twenty cents goes to others. I'm sure it's changed even more since that conversation." After reading these remarks, I felt compelled to check the facts and called the local headquarters of the Salvation Army. Apparently only 12% of donations are dedicated to administration with the remaining 88% of funding going to various charitable outreach programs. Not only was this information quickly and cheerfully volunteered, I was sent an annual report that documented the breakdown of spending. Unfortunately such accountability (or cheerfulness in regards to $$$!!!) doesn't exist in the 2x2 church. However, it is clear that virtually 100% of funding is dedicated to supporting the workers -- and 0% to charitable outreach programs. Everett owes the Salvation Army an apology for his misinformed and slanderous remarks. And if he really felt like the Salvation Army was just out to support itself, I wonder how he feels about his own ministry? I would like to think that Everett is capable of spiritual growth. And if his objections to the Salvation Army are based on the misinformation he propagated at Georgetown, perhaps he will now reconsider his opinion of his and other Christian organizations that are routinely slandered by the 2x2's. He should at least check his premises. In any case, my point is not to defend the Salvation Army, but simply to point out the 2x2's proclivity for unfairly slandering other denominations. In my experience, many people have been so affected by years of 2x2 slander, that they consider all Churches to be full of malicious, money-grubbing hypocrites. In my opinion the 2x2's repetitive attacks on other religious denominations prohibit most current 2x2's from having fellowship with other bodies of believers. In addition to inculcating negative feelings towards other denominations, in my experience it was common to contrast other denominations which were "false" or "hypocritical" with the 2x2 church which was all good all the time -- and then draw the conclusion that the 2x2 way was therefore Christ's one and only "true way." True to form, Everett immediately proceeded to relate another conversation with two brother workers: "... I asked one of them with whom I'm bunking, 'You heard the Gospel in 1919?' He said, 'That is so.' I said, 'Has there any teaching or doctrine changed since that time?' Instantly, he answered me, 'Not one bit.' I cannot tell you personally what it means to me to be in this convention and realize that we have a foundation, a sure corner stone that's founded on Christ and it never will change. The Holy Spirit is giving us the same teachings as those two men heard first in 1919. The foundation is not found in the people, it's in the Son of God." Everett goes on to say, amongst other things that: "The miracle is on the other side of obedience. As soon as we take the step in faith, we have proof and we don't need to go through life wondering if this is the true Gospel and doctrine of Christ and way of Christ. We are sure this is the foundation of God." And: "We're sorry to say that there are so many spilled lives. A young man twenty seven years of age said to us after several gospel meetings, 'I know this is right, but right now I have a business and I am not ready yet....' We stood by his open casket a while later.... His girlfriend stood there by his open grave and said, 'My boyfriend told me this is the Truth. He said he wasn't ready yet...' That was a few years ago and he's still not ready yet." It seems to me that Everett demonstrated a large void in his understanding of the 2x2's history and doctrine and/or he simply wasn't being honest with himself and the few thousand people gathered at Georgetown that year. Not surprisingly, he topped off his equivocations and request for obedience with an implicit threat of a lost eternity for all who are not part of Christ's "true way." I heard a very dishonest sermon once here in NZ by a visiting worker who from memory was English. He recounted a story about going into a shop and seeing a an old man, then he realized it was himself he was seeing in a mirror. Maybe I was the only one there other than that visiting worker that reads George Bernard Shaw but he told exactly the same story and it was told even before this visiting worker was out of nappies. To recount a story as if it was ones own is incredibly dishonest. It makes a mockery of the word testimony. Which reminds me of how Nathan used to operate years ago on here by cutting and pasting stuff from a religious website. He never gave them acknowledgment for it and was snapped by an astute member of TMB. Caught lying once you lose all credibility for ever. Charisma is a great tool......
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2021 1:21:15 GMT -5
I heard a very dishonest sermon once here in NZ by a visiting worker who from memory was English. He recounted a story about going into a shop and seeing a an old man, then he realized it was himself he was seeing in a mirror. Maybe I was the only one there other than that visiting worker that reads George Bernard Shaw but he told exactly the same story and it was told even before this visiting worker was out of nappies. To recount a story as if it was ones own is incredibly dishonest. It makes a mockery of the word testimony. Which reminds me of how Nathan used to operate years ago on here by cutting and pasting stuff from a religious website. He never gave them acknowledgment for it and was snapped by an astute member of TMB. Caught lying once you lose all credibility for ever. Charisma is a great tool...... I have never heard of that chap Charisma but there's a couple of tools on here that can tell porkies a mile high.
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 1:36:51 GMT -5
Charisma is a great tool...... I have never heard of that chap Charisma but there's a couple of tools on here that can tell porkies a mile high. Surely not....... Nathan and wally are currently digging a hole to show us hell inside earth....wont be long now and the heathens will see..... I just do hope the wind doesn't blow the evidence away.....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2021 1:51:21 GMT -5
I have never heard of that chap Charisma but there's a couple of tools on here that can tell porkies a mile high. Surely not....... Nathan and wally are currently digging a hole to show us hell inside earth....wont be long now and the heathens will see..... I just do hope the wind doesn't blow the evidence away..... Perhaps you could tell Nathan that there is a 400 mile wide hole at each of the poles.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 2:06:04 GMT -5
I have never heard of that chap Charisma but there's a couple of tools on here that can tell porkies a mile high. Surely not....... Nathan and wally are currently digging a hole to show us hell inside earth....wont be long now and the heathens will see..... I just do hope the wind doesn't blow the evidence away..... should go well with that hole you are digging for yourself, we can no longer see the top of your head....
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2021 2:22:24 GMT -5
Surely not....... Nathan and wally are currently digging a hole to show us hell inside earth....wont be long now and the heathens will see..... I just do hope the wind doesn't blow the evidence away..... Perhaps you could tell Nathan that there is a 400 mile wide hole at each of the poles. That would save some digging.....
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Post by mountain on Jun 29, 2021 3:03:02 GMT -5
Well, the senior worker presents his finding was a scam and I present mine it wasn't a scam at all and let us and the readers compare who is the scammer. 6/17/19 Mountain/RAM wrote: Anyway, I have to say that you are a very hard man to fool, Nathan. You meticulously research anything before you will believe it as fact. Such screening makes it very difficult to convince you of anything. I'm sure many on this board will share my views regarding your proneness to detail and doubting. Therefore I would strongly advise anyone who doubts anything that you post, that they likewise venture on the quest of meticulous research before doing so. You've set the standard. Let others follow. Just as the gondolier seldom encounters rabbits in his pathway, so too let your detractors encounter discrepancy with what you present as genuine. Consider Nathan. An extremely intelligent character, who carries out meticulous research before presenting his views on here. Basically he is second to none. Have you noticed that there are several atheists on this board and every time Nathan engages them he wipes the floor with their arguments. Have you ever considered that these atheists are mere concoctions of Nathan, whom he shoots down time and again with his views, leaving himself the master of the debate. Generally there is no contest. Nathan wins hands down every time. They have no answer to him. Have you ever wondered why that is?
Self righteousness......who reposts people pumping up your own tyres..... How does one win when they start with a false premise.....🤔 Chuck, instead of trying to discredit Nathan or sidestep the issue, do you agree with the statements which Nathan has quoted? At the serious risk of falling on your own sword, can you even attempt to undermine the integrity deeply embedded in these statements? What is it about verity that is so appalling to your willingness to accept and believe? Are you related to Kent Hovind?
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