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Post by matisse on Mar 3, 2023 13:00:15 GMT -5
People living in poverty, and people descending into poverty from a disappearing middle class. Many work hard, very few escape. Regarding the police killings of unarmed men, read the DOJ report of their investigation of police practices in Ferguson MO, conducted after the killing of George Floyd. This is only one county among many with similarly cruel, systemically racist practices that lock people into poverty. Equality of opportunity, imo, is a myth. Lots of us can go through our lives oblivious (sometimes willfully so) to the systemic cruelties others endure, and be quick to blame the victims for erupting in anger when yet another life is lost. Think "Promised Land" News of unarmed black men being killed by police is like a slow, but regular drumbeat in the US. A similar drumbeat of mass shootings in the US pounds away at a faster rate. Both are relentless, and in this sense, feel practically "routine". And the possibility of cell phone footage in this modern era is why we know about some of the police killings, and why we are starting to see police being held accountable for egregious behavior. African Americans have known for generations that their sons, especially, face a risk of losing their life at the hands of police. Witness "the talk" that parents have with their children about how to survive an encounter with police. And, by the way, "Life and death" isn't in play for police when an unarmed person is shot in the back while running away, or shot after being subdued and cuffed. I do admire your tenacity for exaggeration, fantasy and using myth as fact. You were trounced on your fantasy of "The practically routine killing of unarmed black men" a bit ago. Facts don't care about feelings. "routine" adjective : of a commonplace or repetitious character: ordinary Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary Nobody trounced me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2023 15:08:00 GMT -5
I do admire your tenacity for exaggeration, fantasy and using myth as fact. You were trounced on your fantasy of "The practically routine killing of unarmed black men" a bit ago. Facts don't care about feelings. "routine" adjective : of a commonplace or repetitious character: ordinary Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary Nobody trounced me. You are too transparent, that was not what you were suggesting or implying with "routine". Cognitive dissonance, get it fixed...
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Post by matisse on Mar 3, 2023 15:28:49 GMT -5
"routine" adjective : of a commonplace or repetitious character: ordinary Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary Nobody trounced me. You are too transparent, that was not what you were suggesting or implying with "routine". Cognitive dissonance, get it fxied... *fixed It was exactly what I was suggesting: the killing of unarmed black men by police happens often enough, that it is no longer surprising, i.e. it is practically routine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2023 15:51:55 GMT -5
You are too transparent, that was not what you were suggesting or implying with "routine". Cognitive dissonance, get it fxied... *fixed It was exactly what I was suggesting: the killing of unarmed black men by police happens often enough, that it is no longer surprising, i.e. it is practically routine. Roughly 50 unarmed people a year is not "routine" and you'll need to share that with Whites, Hispanics, Asians and others or unknowns... Race baiting is one of the lowest things one can do given how different things are now since the 1860's or even the 1960's...
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Post by matisse on Mar 4, 2023 21:28:30 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2023 22:01:03 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men. The Post is more than a TAD to the left. I used the FBI and Statista. Statista is Center, and high for facts. Post is Left wing and mostly factual. I wouldn't count The Post as honest about their findings as you believe they are.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 5, 2023 21:04:44 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men. The Post is more than a TAD to the left. I used the FBI and Statista. Statista is Center, and high for facts. Post is Left wing and mostly factual. I wouldn't count The Post as honest about their findings as you believe they are. Remember, folks. Wally doesn't deal well with ratios to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2023 23:09:17 GMT -5
The Post is more than a TAD to the left. I used the FBI and Statista. Statista is Center, and high for facts. Post is Left wing and mostly factual. I wouldn't count The Post as honest about their findings as you believe they are. Remember, folks. Wally doesn't deal well with ratios to begin with. Since when slippery Bob? I know a bit about how ratios and percentages can be very misleading and manipulative when in college the first time. I did some research for a paper I was writing for small group discussion. I called the state police here in WA about the increasing the speed limit data for deaths, the officer was very leary about giving data without explaining how shady it can get. Like if deaths go from 1 to 3 for a particular issue, that is a 200% increase. Which if led with just sounds like A LOT. But it's just an increase of 2 people not a lot. Ratios are just as manipulative and misleading. Raw numbers are better most of the time and reveal the BS quite quickly. I do understand lefties don't like that, but tough t###ties.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 5, 2023 23:52:13 GMT -5
Remember, folks. Wally doesn't deal well with ratios to begin with. Since when slippery Bob? I know a bit about how ratios and percentages can be very misleading and manipulative when in college the first time. I did some research for a paper I was writing for small group discussion. I called the state police here in WA about the increasing the speed limit data for deaths, the officer was very leary about giving data without explaining how shady it can get. Like if deaths go from 1 to 3 for a particular issue, that is a 200% increase. Which if led with just sounds like A LOT. But it's just an increase of 2 people not a lot. Ratios are just as manipulative and misleading. Raw numbers are better most of the time and reveal the BS quite quickly. I do understand lefties don't like that, but tough t###ties. See folks -- he calls it misleading, we know it as not understanding. Don't worry, Wally. You don't need to understand it to survive.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 0:40:58 GMT -5
Since when slippery Bob? I know a bit about how ratios and percentages can be very misleading and manipulative when in college the first time. I did some research for a paper I was writing for small group discussion. I called the state police here in WA about the increasing the speed limit data for deaths, the officer was very leary about giving data without explaining how shady it can get. Like if deaths go from 1 to 3 for a particular issue, that is a 200% increase. Which if led with just sounds like A LOT. But it's just an increase of 2 people not a lot. Ratios are just as manipulative and misleading. Raw numbers are better most of the time and reveal the BS quite quickly. I do understand lefties don't like that, but tough t###ties. See folks -- he calls it misleading, we know it as not understanding. Don't worry, Wally. You don't need to understand it to survive. Your delusions are your own...and hopefully not contagious...
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 6, 2023 1:27:44 GMT -5
See folks -- he calls it misleading, we know it as not understanding. Don't worry, Wally. You don't need to understand it to survive. Your delusions are your own...and hopefully not contagious... I doubt you're vulnerable to any such contagion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 1:31:14 GMT -5
Your delusions are your own...and hopefully not contagious... I doubt you're vulnerable to any such contagion. D##m Straight... We might have an agreement here. Who knew?
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Post by chuck on Mar 6, 2023 21:49:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 22:14:50 GMT -5
Thanks, it will take a bit to read that PDF (56 pages). Eventually I'll get to it.
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Post by chuck on Mar 7, 2023 2:26:57 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men. Now do a multivariate analysis of the 4 to 1 to tell more of the story.
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Post by matisse on Mar 7, 2023 4:31:55 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men. Now do a multivariate analysis of the 4 to 1 to tell more of the story. On TMB, with its ugly cluster of bullheaded, gaslighting racism deniers? Not a chance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2023 8:25:42 GMT -5
Now do a multivariate analysis of the 4 to 1 to tell more of the story. On TMB, with its ugly cluster of bullheaded, gaslighting racism deniers? Not a chance. Ah, the race card again. The rest is just you projecting again...
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Post by matisse on Mar 7, 2023 18:25:21 GMT -5
After the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO in 2014, the Washington Post discovered that killings by police were grossly undercounted in the FBI database. I recommend this link to the Post's frequently updated and filterable Fatal Force Database which includes a history of the Post's award-winning investigative journalism of this topic and a description of their methods. I filtered for unarmed Black men and unarmed White men killed by police since 2015 and divided the results by the respective population sizes to calculate rates per million: Unarmed Black Men: 3.5 per million (141 per 40M) Unarmed White Men: 0.9 per million (169 per 192M) These data suggest that unarmed black men are killed by police at close to 4 times the rate of unarmed white men. The Post is more than a TAD to the left. I used the FBI and Statista. Statista is Center, and high for facts. Post is Left wing and mostly factual. I wouldn't count The Post as honest about their findings as you believe they are. Fun fact - Statista uses the Washington Post's Fatal Force Database as its source!
From Statista: People shot to death by U.S. police 2017-2023, by racePublished by Statista Research Department, Feb 2, 2023 Source: Washington Post Excerpt: "...the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 5.9 fatal shootings per million of the population per year between 2015 and January 2023."And from the Washington Post: Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White AmericansKilled since 2015: Black 5.9 per million per year White, non-Hispanic 2.3 per million per yearI arrived at the numbers I quoted earlier this week by applying filters for "unarmed" along with "White" or "Black" across all years in the interactive WaPo Fatal Force Database.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2023 21:38:29 GMT -5
The Post is more than a TAD to the left. I used the FBI and Statista. Statista is Center, and high for facts. Post is Left wing and mostly factual. I wouldn't count The Post as honest about their findings as you believe they are. Fun fact - Statista uses the Washington Post's Fatal Force Database as its source!
From Statista: People shot to death by U.S. police 2017-2023, by racePublished by Statista Research Department, Feb 2, 2023 Source: Washington Post Excerpt: "...the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 5.9 fatal shootings per million of the population per year between 2015 and January 2023."And from the Washington Post: Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White AmericansKilled since 2015: Black 5.9 per million per year White, non-Hispanic 2.3 per million per yearI arrived at the numbers I quoted earlier this week by applying filters for "unarmed" along with "White" or "Black" across all years in the interactive WaPo Fatal Force Database. Raw numbers are a better reflection of what's going on: Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2023, by race Characteristic White Black Hispanic Other Unknown 2017 458 222 180 44 77 2018 459 228 167 41 88 2019 424 251 168 42 114 2020 459 243 171 27 120 2021 302 177 78 10 488 2022 389 225 120 22 341 2023* 17 7 5 0 50 Statista The other methods of calculation are more manipulative. Here it shows the number of unarmed shot per year:(Which was your main crying) www.statista.com/statistics/585140/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-weapon-carried-2016/It's pretty much less than 50 people per year for the last 6 years. Which you'll need to share with Whites, Hispanics, Asians and others. Hardly the "practically routine killing of unarmed blacks" that you exaggerate about. It's a lefty pattern you need to shake...
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Post by matisse on Mar 7, 2023 22:56:05 GMT -5
Fun fact - Statista uses the Washington Post's Fatal Force Database as its source!
From Statista: People shot to death by U.S. police 2017-2023, by racePublished by Statista Research Department, Feb 2, 2023 Source: Washington Post Excerpt: "...the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 5.9 fatal shootings per million of the population per year between 2015 and January 2023."And from the Washington Post: Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White AmericansKilled since 2015: Black 5.9 per million per year White, non-Hispanic 2.3 per million per yearI arrived at the numbers I quoted earlier this week by applying filters for "unarmed" along with "White" or "Black" across all years in the interactive WaPo Fatal Force Database. Raw numbers are a better reflection of what's going on: Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2023, by race Characteristic White Black Hispanic Other Unknown 2017 458 222 180 44 77 2018 459 228 167 41 88 2019 424 251 168 42 114 2020 459 243 171 27 120 2021 302 177 78 10 488 2022 389 225 120 22 341 2023* 17 7 5 0 50 Statista The other methods of calculation are more manipulative. Here it shows the number of unarmed shot per year:(Which was your main crying) www.statista.com/statistics/585140/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-weapon-carried-2016/It's pretty much less than 50 people per year for the last 6 years. Which you'll need to share with Whites, Hispanics, Asians and others. Hardly the "practically routine killing of unarmed blacks" that you exaggerate about. It's a lefty pattern you need to shake... You are running in circles, re-hashing worn out, ill-conceived arguments that have already been rebutted. Have a great night, now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2023 22:57:51 GMT -5
Raw numbers are a better reflection of what's going on: Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2023, by race Characteristic White Black Hispanic Other Unknown 2017 458 222 180 44 77 2018 459 228 167 41 88 2019 424 251 168 42 114 2020 459 243 171 27 120 2021 302 177 78 10 488 2022 389 225 120 22 341 2023* 17 7 5 0 50 Statista The other methods of calculation are more manipulative. Here it shows the number of unarmed shot per year:(Which was your main crying) www.statista.com/statistics/585140/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-weapon-carried-2016/It's pretty much less than 50 people per year for the last 6 years. Which you'll need to share with Whites, Hispanics, Asians and others. Hardly the "practically routine killing of unarmed blacks" that you exaggerate about. It's a lefty pattern you need to shake... You are running in circles, re-hashing worn out, ill-conceived arguments that have already been rebutted. Have a great night, now. Rebuttal's, when? OH, you mean spin!!! Right there with ya...
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Post by chuck on Mar 8, 2023 1:56:31 GMT -5
Now do a multivariate analysis of the 4 to 1 to tell more of the story. On TMB, with its ugly cluster of bullheaded, gaslighting racism deniers? Not a chance. Oh the irony.
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Post by matisse on Mar 8, 2023 2:25:31 GMT -5
On TMB, with its ugly cluster of bullheaded, gaslighting racism deniers? Not a chance. Oh the irony. Did you read the DOJ findings about the systematic harrassment and abuse of black residents by police in Ferguson MO?
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Post by chuck on Mar 8, 2023 3:30:44 GMT -5
Did you read the DOJ findings about the systematic harrassment and abuse of black residents by police in Ferguson MO? Your link wont work for me, try it again?. scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-forceThis started off the as routine killing of black men, your latest post has changed from that original narrative. You dont want to discuss multivariate analysis, and now you have changed the narrative. Why?. This is the trouble when people make such broad sweeping accusations, when you do a little digging it begins to falls apart. 4 to 1 is only part of story. What's wrong with digging a bit more?.
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Post by matisse on Mar 8, 2023 6:07:01 GMT -5
Did you read the DOJ findings about the systematic harrassment and abuse of black residents by police in Ferguson MO? Your link wont work for me, try it again?. DOJ Ferguson Police Department Report I cannot see what data source was used for this harvard.edu report, but it predates the Washington Post investigation that found that the FBI database had big gaps in its data - in part, because police departments were not required to report it, and many chose not to. This, and the methods the WaPo investigative team used to track down and fill in as much missing data as they could find are explained in some of the WaPo links I posted earlier. The killing of unarmed black men by police has been in the news often enough over the past several years, that it no longer surprises me. "Practically routine" is how I described no longer being surprised by something so horrifying. The term "normalized" might have caused less confusion. From my point of view, my narrative has not changed. Almost all of the replies to my posts have been made by someone who has stated repeatedly on TMB that systemic racism against black and brown people ended with the civil rights acts of the 60's. I reject that premise and won't go deeper into a discussion in which that is an underlying assumption. The 4 to 1 result is based on a dataset that has been greatly improved, but is still not complete. There is also no way to account for police atrocities that have been covered up by corrupt department because there were no civilian witnesses present recording video that could be used to force accountability. I would not be surprised if the ratio would be larger if missing details could be filled in. I posted statistics because wally concluded that there would be no significant differences in police killings of unarmed men by race. My contribution here is the link to the WaPo Fatal Force interactive database, and the DOJ report on the Ferguson MO police department. I hope someone will find them as interesting as I did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 11:22:04 GMT -5
Your link wont work for me, try it again?. DOJ Ferguson Police Department Report I cannot see what data source was used for this harvard.edu report, but it predates the Washington Post investigation that found that the FBI database had big gaps in its data - in part, because police departments were not required to report it, and many chose not to. This, and the methods the WaPo investigative team used to track down and fill in as much missing data as they could find are explained in some of the WaPo links I posted earlier. The killing of unarmed black men by police has been in the news often enough over the past several years, that it no longer surprises me. "Practically routine" is how I described no longer being surprised by something so horrifying. The term "normalized" might have caused less confusion. From my point of view, my narrative has not changed. Almost all of the replies to my posts have been made by someone who has stated repeatedly on TMB that systemic racism against black and brown people ended with the civil rights acts of the 60's. I reject that premise and won't go deeper into a discussion in which that is an underlying assumption. The 4 to 1 result is based on a dataset that has been greatly improved, but is still not complete. There is also no way to account for police atrocities that have been covered up by corrupt department because there were no civilian witnesses present recording video that could be used to force accountability. I would not be surprised if the ratio would be larger if missing details could be filled in. I posted statistics because wally concluded that there would be no significant differences in police killings of unarmed men by race. My contribution here is the link to the WaPo Fatal Force interactive database, and the DOJ report on the Ferguson MO police department. I hope someone will find them as interesting as I did. I'll go get you some of your favorite Kool-Aid to refresh you while you dig that deep hole... You might do better and actually be credible if you could even post one current law we have (systemic racism) that isn't an old, overlooked, forgotten relic from before the 70's that says go after black and brown people instead of whiteys... Narratives are not facts...
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Post by matisse on Mar 8, 2023 18:00:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 18:19:11 GMT -5
Who is in charge of the DOJ at the moment? Come on man...
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