magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 572
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Post by magpies39plus on Feb 10, 2021 18:02:47 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 10, 2021 18:10:37 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE I didn't consult the Holy Spirit, but I did consult with a "pastor". It was decided that a wife and her complications were a drag on the ministry, so why allow it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 18:15:27 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry?
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Post by openingact34 on Feb 10, 2021 19:28:21 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE 1) NO. I DISAGREE. I think you need to re-examine that verse in 1 Corinthians. "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?". Obviously Paul wasn't talking about marrying your sister. He was talking about how workers have the power to boss women around, tell them how to dress, do their hair, etc. A more clear reflection of Paul's position is explained in Chapter 7 of the same letter. Verse 1: Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." Verse 8: "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I." Paul, the most influential and authoritative Christian of all time was PROMOTING celibacy as the BEST possible state for man. Furthermore, if you read the words of Jesus in Matthew 19 or Mark 10, it makes it clear that the disciples may have been married, but they had abandoned wives, children, and homes to follow Jesus. They were not taking new wives on the road. 2) YES, I HAVE STUDIED IRVINE BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOU. No worker hated the Catholic Church more than William Irvine. If you had been foolish enough to suggest that he was following a directive of Rome, he would have beaten you to bloody pulp. In one of his letters, Irvine wrote: Heaven - is where Jesus the Carpenter sits upon the Throne, at the right hand of God, and no Pope, Priest, Rabbi, Pastor, Deacon, Elder -- or any other vermin can ever find a place there. Hell is for all who let the Devil deceive and rule them, as being Christian, while they are only human and their torment is only the memory of their folly, and the more books and literature and other babblings they did, the more torment, and the better it paid and the more people they deceived and the more power given them, the more torment. Irvine and the workers were following the Bible, not Rome.
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Post by Gene on Feb 10, 2021 20:49:51 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry? IF YES, can you prove that?
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Post by nathan on Feb 10, 2021 21:06:26 GMT -5
this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry? IF YES, can you prove that? ** Yes, we have proved it. Can you prove to us Jesus was NOT?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:11:50 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry? This question is misleading. If NO, can you prove it? If YES, can you prove it? If you can prove neither, why is celibacy something that is an issue?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:12:38 GMT -5
this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry? IF YES, can you prove that? I should've scrolled down... missed this
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:13:57 GMT -5
Last time I put these questions up only a handfull answered them out of "7" pages.I thought they were simple easy straight forward questions. But "NO".The usual off subject full of change the subject,childish/immasture/ignorantblind justifications. Even off the subject arguments !! NOW LET US ANSWER THE QUESTIONS Q1/AS MOST OF THE DISCIPLES WERE MARRIED,PAUL SAID HE AND BARNABAS WERE NOT,DISAPPOINTED HE HAD NO WIFE TO TAKE WITH HIM ON HIS TRAVELS. 1CORINTHIANS 9v 4/5. SO WHY DEMANDED CELIBACY??? ANSWER"DO YOU AGREE. YES/NO. SIMPLE. A COMMENT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ONLY WELCOMED,EG--INTERESTING,STILL STUDYING,NOT INTERESTED,OR HOW YOU FOUND IT AS A STUDY,ETC Q2/ WHY DID YOUR FOUNDER WILLIAM IRVINE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE SET DOWN BY ROME. HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT??? YES/NO COMMENT EG..RELATING TO THE QUESTION WELCOMED..................... NOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OFF THE SUJECTS OR THROW A WOBBLY PLEASE GO TO A RELEVANT THREAD OR START YOUR OWN. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SHOW SOME CHRISTIAN SPIRIT,IF IT WORRIES YOU TO IMMEDIATLY ANSWER SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GUIDENCE ABOUT THE MATTER OR TALK TO A TEACHER OR PASTOR AS IN EPHESIANS 4v 11/12. DO FEEL FREE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATING TO THESE SUBJECTS 'OF COURSE'. THANKS WE SHALL TRY AGAIN WITH A BIT OF GODLY MATURITY. MAGPIE 1) NO. I DISAGREE. I think you need to re-examine that verse in 1 Corinthians. "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?". Obviously Paul wasn't talking about marrying your sister. He was talking about how workers have the power to boss women around, tell them how to dress, do their hair, etc. A more clear reflection of Paul's position is explained in Chapter 7 of the same letter. Verse 1: Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." Verse 8: "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I." Paul, the most influential and authoritative Christian of all time was PROMOTING celibacy as the BEST possible state for man. Furthermore, if you read the words of Jesus in Matthew 19 or Mark 10, it makes it clear that the disciples may have been married, but they had abandoned wives, children, and homes to follow Jesus. They were not taking new wives on the road. 2) YES, I HAVE STUDIED IRVINE BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOU. No worker hated the Catholic Church more than William Irvine. If you had been foolish enough to suggest that he was following a directive of Rome, he would have beaten you to bloody pulp. In one of his letters, Irvine wrote: Heaven - is where Jesus the Carpenter sits upon the Throne, at the right hand of God, and no Pope, Priest, Rabbi, Pastor, Deacon, Elder -- or any other vermin can ever find a place there. Hell is for all who let the Devil deceive and rule them, as being Christian, while they are only human and their torment is only the memory of their folly, and the more books and literature and other babblings they did, the more torment, and the better it paid and the more people they deceived and the more power given them, the more torment. Irvine and the workers were following the Bible, not Rome. Best Opening Act any church could aspire to! 😂😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 22:57:46 GMT -5
this may open a whole can of worms but i'll ask it anyways. was Jesus celibate? if NO, can you prove that? if YES, Christ is the standard for the ministry and YES he was in the ministry. so why would we do different than that if in the ministry? IF YES, can you prove that? YES, but lets see maggpies answer to my questions of his questions then i'll list my 9 points i came up with....
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 10:13:43 GMT -5
Magpies, or anyone can you show us in the scriptures that Jesus was a married preacher? And Who was his wife?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 11:10:23 GMT -5
Magpies, or anyone can you show us in the scriptures that Jesus was a married preacher? And Who was his wife? That's the point. It doesn't say he was. It doesn't say he wasn't. It is the church (specifically in this case, the 2x2s) that places an emphasis on going forth "like Jesus" (yet discarding Matt 10). Unmarried preachers are something that they are proud to point to as "evidence" of being the "true Way", yet when pressed, they're also quick to say "it's not a rule! There have been married workers!". It's the exact sort of evasive runaround that I've come to associate with the "t/Truth"
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 13:35:49 GMT -5
Magpies, or anyone can you show us in the scriptures that Jesus was a married preacher? And Who was his wife? That's the point. It doesn't say he was. It doesn't say he wasn't. It is the church (specifically in this case, the 2x2s) that places an emphasis on going forth "like Jesus" (yet discarding Matt 10). Unmarried preachers are something that they are proud to point to as "evidence" of being the "true Way", yet when pressed, they're also quick to say "it's not a rule! There have been married workers!". It's the exact sort of evasive runaround that I've come to associate with the "t/Truth" *** Well, this what we KNOW from the Bible during the time of Jesus which tell us he WASN'T a married man and Peacher! The scriptures said he didn't. Jesus would NEVER have asked and sent His apostles/His ambassadors of messengers as unmarried messengers while he himself had a wife tucked away for his own desires. If the apostles found out Jesus has tucked away a wife somewhere, then they would call him a cheater and a liar wouldn't you say? Jesus practiced what he preached, he set the example as an unmarried/Celibate preacher (Matthew 19; Matthew 10 and Luke 10; Paul, Barnabas, john Mark, Luke, Silas unmarried lives) and he appointed most of them unmarried except Peter who was married, but we don't read about her or mention of her in the gospels or in the book of Acts or any of his epistles. Peter's wife could have passed away at the time Jesus called him in the ministry and remarried later on I Cor. 9:5 and other apostles followed his example as married apostles after Jesus ascended back to heaven. According to Vaudois/Waldense church history most of Jesus 2x2 apostles the Vaudois, were Paul's converts from Rome 67 A.D. they followed Christ and Paul example as unmarried men and women preachers for 1800 years! A few were married but NOT many due to constantly moving. Yes, there has been married apostles, among the Vaudios/Waldenses for 1800 yrs, the Faith Mission workers and 2x2 workers but it NOT very practical way to live when involved the children. Can you show me anywhere in the scriptures/gospels, Acts or any of the apostles epistles indicate Jesus was married? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 15:51:50 GMT -5
1 Timothy 3:2 New International Version 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 18:19:35 GMT -5
1 Timothy 3:2 New International Version 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. Paul was talking about the office or position for the church elders/bishops, and deacons qualifications who had Sunday morning or Christ's Passover in their homes NOT the overseer worker as we KNOW today! Good try, though.....I Timothy 3:1-8 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching, 3 not overindulging in wine, not a bully, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil. 8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not insincere, not prone to drink much wine, not greedy for money, Do you have any verses in the gospel, the book of Acts, and the epistles which indicate that Jesus was a married man and preacher of the gospel?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 18:36:51 GMT -5
1 Timothy 3:2 New International Version 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. This verse Paul was talking about the church elders, who had Sunday morning or Christ's Passover in his home, NOT the overseer worker as we KNOW today! good catch the word is bishop or deacon in the KJV.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 18:56:04 GMT -5
That is the good thing about the Bible, you can always find a verse to suit any situation. Just search for the appropriate verse. Then add you own interpretation and you have the answer. No problems, a very versatile book. Does cause a bit of argument though, not very definitive. It is just whatever suits yourself.
I like to keep up with the times, I use NIV.
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 19:01:58 GMT -5
1 Timothy 3:2 New International Version 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. Paul was talking about the office or position for the church elders/bishops, and deacons qualifications who had Sunday morning or Christ's Passover in their homes NOT the overseer worker as we KNOW today! Good try, though.....I Timothy 3:1-8 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching, 3 not overindulging in wine, not a bully, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil. 8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not insincere, not prone to drink much wine, not greedy for money, ~~ Do you have any verses in the gospel, the book of Acts, and the epistles which indicate that Jesus was a married man and preacher of the gospel?
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 19:09:13 GMT -5
That is the good thing about the Bible, you can always find a verse to suit any situation. Just search for the appropriate verse. Then add you own interpretation and you have the answer. No problems, a very versatile book. Does cause a bit of argument though, not very definitive. It is just whatever suits yourself. I like to keep up with the times, I use NIV. The overseers in the Bible meant the bishops or the church elders of the New Testament churches of God NOT overseers workers as we KNOW today!
Acts 20:17-30 Paul was addressing the church elders at Ephesus as overseers... Verse 27-30 For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. Do you have any verses in the gospels, the book of Acts, and the epistles which indicate that Jesus was a married man and preacher of the gospel?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:36:14 GMT -5
That's the point. It doesn't say he was. It doesn't say he wasn't. It is the church (specifically in this case, the 2x2s) that places an emphasis on going forth "like Jesus" (yet discarding Matt 10). Unmarried preachers are something that they are proud to point to as "evidence" of being the "true Way", yet when pressed, they're also quick to say "it's not a rule! There have been married workers!". It's the exact sort of evasive runaround that I've come to associate with the "t/Truth" *** Well, this what we KNOW from the Bible during the time of Jesus which tell us he WASN'T a married man and Peacher! The scriptures said he didn't. Jesus would NEVER have asked and sent His apostles/His ambassadors of messengers as unmarried messengers while he himself had a wife tucked away for his own desires. If the apostles found out Jesus has tucked away a wife somewhere, then they would call him a cheater and a liar wouldn't you say? Jesus practiced what he preached, he set the example as an unmarried/Celibate preacher (Matthew 19; Matthew 10 and Luke 10; Paul, Barnabas, john Mark, Luke, Silas unmarried lives) and he appointed most of them unmarried except Peter who was married, but we don't read about her or mention of her in the gospels or in the book of Acts or any of his epistles. Peter's wife could have passed away at the time Jesus called him in the ministry and remarried later on I Cor. 9:5 and other apostles followed his example as married apostles after Jesus ascended back to heaven. According to Vaudois/Waldense church history most of Jesus 2x2 apostles the Vaudois, were Paul's converts from Rome 67 A.D. they followed Christ and Paul example as unmarried men and women preachers for 1800 years! A few were married but NOT many due to constantly moving. Yes, there has been married apostles, among the Vaudios/Waldenses for 1800 yrs, the Faith Mission workers and 2x2 workers but it NOT very practical way to live when involved the children. Can you show me anywhere in the scriptures/gospels, Acts or any of the apostles epistles indicate Jesus was married? Thanks. I'm genuinely curious, and not trying to be argumentative (with this post at least ) Where do the scriptures say explicitly Jesus wasn't married? How about Bartholomew? Since it doesn't say, was he not married either?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:57:07 GMT -5
“ I'm genuinely curious, and not trying to be argumentative..::;” Student - it is not my responsibility to disagree with anybody Ispedixit- yes , it sure is Student - No , it isn’t Ispedixit - You just did Cheers Alvin Often this is exactly the case! In this particular instance though, I am only somewhere in the 80% confident range that it never says explicitly whether Jesus was married or not. If someone made me bet on it, my money would be with the "not married" side, but it just seems like if it were some true-ministry-defining thing, there would be a little more clear instruction. Even Paul at one point says that he could have a wife if he wished, just like the other apostles. (I tend to think Paul would've been difficult to be married to, but customs were different then I suppose).
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Post by nathan on Feb 11, 2021 23:14:23 GMT -5
“ I'm genuinely curious, and not trying to be argumentative..::;” Student - it is not my responsibility to disagree with anybody Ispedixit- yes , it sure is Student - No , it isn’t Ispedixit - You just did Cheers Alvin Often this is exactly the case! In this particular instance though, I am only somewhere in the 80% confident range that it never says explicitly whether Jesus was married or not. If someone made me bet on it, my money would be with the "not married" side, but it just seems like if it were some true-ministry-defining thing, there would be a little more clear instruction. Even Paul at one point says that he could have a wife if he wished, just like the other apostles. (I tend to think Paul would've been difficult to be married to, but customs were different then I suppose). The main reason for NOT being married in the work/ministry so they can train and teach others to become apostles themselves in service training school 24/7.
It is VERY difficult for married workers to train an unmarried brother or sister worker 24/7. Unmarried worker can pass the gospel torch from one generation to the NEXT until Jesus comes again.
The workers are Christ's shepherds to the flock or the churches of God. They and the church elders are care givers, guide and protect the people of God.
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 0:21:54 GMT -5
So NO scripture or ANY evidence whatsoever , but only our own personal biased beliefs , on whether Jesus was married or not ? Alvin So, can you show me Three places; either in the Old New Testament scriptures, or in the gospels, the epistles of the apostles, the book of Acts that he is married and had children. Thanks.
You Can't do it because Jesus was NEVER a married man!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 0:38:45 GMT -5
So NO scripture or ANY evidence whatsoever , but only our own personal biased beliefs , on whether Jesus was married or not ? Alvin So, can you show me Three places; either in the Old New Testament scriptures, or in the gospels, the epistles of the apostles, the book of Acts that he is married and had children. Thanks.
You Can't do it because Jesus was NEVER a married man! This is intellectually dishonest. What is intellectually honest to say is that you think it's very unlikely he was married because there are no scriptures specifically saying he was, but we have no actual way to know. I'm not saying he was or wasn't. But if you make an assertion that he was, you need to have some sort of positive evidence. That's like me saying that John the Baptist was lactose intolerant, and when you asked how I know, I tell you to find places in the bible that says he ate dairy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 0:44:13 GMT -5
So, can you show me Three places; either in the Old New Testament scriptures, or in the gospels, the epistles of the apostles, the book of Acts that he is married and had children. Thanks.
You Can't do it because Jesus was NEVER a married man! No I cannot show you one , let alone three . Could you show me ONE that shows HE was NOT married ? Reminder , I believe he was probably NOT married but have NO evidence Alvin Me as well. Is this really that difficult a concept?
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 0:44:38 GMT -5
So, can you show me Three places; either in the Old New Testament scriptures, or in the gospels, the epistles of the apostles, the book of Acts that he is married and had children. Thanks.
You Can't do it because Jesus was NEVER a married man! This is intellectually dishonest. What is intellectually honest to say is that you think it's very unlikely he was married because there are no scriptures specifically saying he was, but we have no actual way to know. I'm not saying he was or wasn't. But if you make an assertion that he was, you need to have some sort of positive evidence. That's like me saying that John the Baptist was lactose intolerant, and when you asked how I know, I tell you to find places in the bible that says he ate dairy. Jesus KNEW his time on earth was very short to live 33 1/2 years, and 3 1/2 years in the ministry. Can you give me a good reason for him to marry? and leave his wife behind on earth? Jesus gave us in Matthew 19 the BIGGEST, clue why he was NOT marry because for the sake of the kingdom of God... To set a pattern for most preachers of the gospel to follow so, they can pass on the gospel of Salvation from one generation to the next to the time of His return to set up His eternal kingdom.
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 0:47:28 GMT -5
So, can you show me Three places; either in the Old New Testament scriptures, or in the gospels, the epistles of the apostles, the book of Acts that he is married and had children. Thanks.
You Can't do it because Jesus was NEVER a married man! No I cannot show you one , let alone three . Could you show me ONE that shows HE was NOT married ? Reminder , I believe he was probably NOT married but have NO evidence Alvin Jesus said in Matthew 19:10-12 The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by people; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”
Matthew 19:27-29 Then answered Peter and said unto Jesus, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 1:13:02 GMT -5
Jesus said in Matthew 19:10-12 The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by people; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”1) Alvin wrote: How are those verses relevant to the question of Jesus marital status ? Divorce was the topic in question, in those verses Edit - the verses you added , spoken by a married man , Peter , would support the belief that you can “ leave all “ and be married , like he himself was Alvin Do you KNOW what a Eunuch is? A eunuch is a man who has been castrated, especially (in the past) one employed to guard China Emperor's queen and many of his concubines living in the king's court. So, the eunuch couldn't have any sexual intercourse with his wives or any of the concubines.
Jesus and His apostles/workers are spiritually castrated their own desires for having families of their own so they can put God's kingdom first. Jesus said, "SEEK ye first the kingdom of God and all these things such as foods, clothing, places to sleep shall be provided for you."Matthew 19: 16-26 Jesus offered the Rich young Ruler a place in the ministry but he didn't want to let go of his wealth so, he refused to become one of his apostles by walking away. Then this is what Peter said Matthew 19:27-29 Then answered Peter and said unto Jesus, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
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