|
Post by chuck on Feb 26, 2021 18:30:31 GMT -5
Well if you have to ask this question you have missed the essense of the scriptures and Christ. The whole Narrative of scripture is "Your" life displaying a "Character". If you think that "Character" needs religion to be or help displayed it........ The Risen Christ is his Character manifested in your life. The Character of Christ lived out. Religion emphasises all the rot around supernatural happenings and is dogmatic about it to the point of abuse and misses the whole point. How would you publize Jesus. Simple. Act this out......... The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever;he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. - Psalm 103:8-10 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm103:8-10&version=NIVNo religion, religious legalism, 2x2ism meetings, missions, workers, professing, testimonies,yada yada yada yada required. You can however act this out in all those yada yada settings we have been told we actually require. But don't confuse the 2. You can publicize it weather your a tax collector or soildier. “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”“Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely —be content with your pay.” - Luke 3:10-14 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke3:10-14&version=NIVA fisherman. When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break.So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!”For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken,and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners. Then Jesus said to Simon, “Don’t be afraid; from now on you will fish for people.”So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him. - Luke 5:4-11 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke5:4-11&version=NIVThe Character of Christ in your life will be "overflowing"/"filled" no matter what you do..... Seems like you might be polarized against any religion that enshrines supernatural revelation or adopts a confessional creed or a kinetic structure. You do realize that many 2x2s and many Christians love going to their meetings and churches, don’t you? It’s not a I-have-to-do-this proposition. As far as the heaven hell dichotomy goes, surely you realize our actions today will bear upon our children tomorrow. Moreover, I’m not sure how one can rule out the thought we wont be personally resurrected in some manner after death. To be dogmatic otherwise, is to take a position no continuity exists between our souls today and our souls tomorrow, according to a teleological assumption of eternal life. This is atheism. No, I am against religion using supernatural dogma to divide, create hierarchies, establish eltism, and any other practice that is void of the Christ like character and treats other's that don't see it like them as animals and is happy to crucify them...... I do realize many love their traditions and rituals. I don't have a problem with that. As for "It’s not a I-have-to-do-this proposition" I beg to differ and think that's a very very naive thought process. You can clearly see when pressed on this very issue with our 2 local 2x2ism zealots that when push comes to shove that is exactly the heart of the matter. I bet you when push comes to shove with most 2x2's or Christians it would be the same. Take the rituals and traditions away and watch the madness ensue. The recent covid lockdowns and the changes to traditions and rituals are a case in point. The amount of absurdity, dishonesty, knee jerk reaction type behaviour has been likened to a drug addict suffering withdrawals. If they did it just for the love of it the above behaviour would never have happened. I have always said heaven or hell are present realities with future implications, being dogmatic about supernatural future implications to people "not like me" is void of the Christ nature. I have never ruled out the possibility of ressurection after physical death, but when you begin to understand how these people thought and the progression of that thought even within the scriptures you can see it is playing God today to control people through guilt with eutopian promises of a afterlife. If wanting to live for ever isn't a selfish ambition I don't know what is, top that off with the carnage that follows if one gets in my way of my eternal goal. FWIW go and look how many other God's of the day that had ressurection, virgin births ect ect attached to them.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 1, 2021 9:55:47 GMT -5
Are you suggesting the incarnation and immaculate conception are myths?
I gather you believe the biblical story of Gods intervention was not only mythical but in sum, harmful. Are you also of the persuasion that all political victory is sin, and all political weakness is virtue?
Selfishness is not a sin. A realistic person knows we are all selfish. The second best definition of sin is selfishness expressed without regard for others. The first is selfishness without regard for God. I’m not convinced you have a belief in God so as to distinguish between the two.
Humanism is an empty religion compared to theism. And deism is similarly empty to humanism. The religion to pursue is a personal relationship with God and fellowship with your divine brothers and sisters.
I don’t see the 2x2 falling apart since the Covid shutdown. Neither the LDS church. Neither the church I go to. Certainly it is refining us, but you are mistaken to suppose most of us are shallow.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Mar 2, 2021 1:17:54 GMT -5
"And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5) "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18). Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a pike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct. Bowels gushed out simply means his bowels let go, pooed himself. Westerners think literal. Hebraic perspective is feeling. Strong's Number - G4698 Greek: σπλάγχνον Transliteration: splagchnon Pronunciation: splangkh'-non Definition: Probably strengthened from σπλήν splēn (the spleen); an intestine (plural); figuratively pity or sympathy: - bowels inward affection + tender mercy. KJV Usage: bowels (9x), inward affection (1x), tender mercy (with G1656) (1x). Occurs: 11 In verses: 11 Do you think it was a bowel movement?? Jeremiah 31:20 [20]Is Ephraim H669 my dear H3357 son? H1121 is he a pleasant H8191 child? H3206 for since H1767 I spake H1696 against him, I do earnestly H2142 remember H2142 him still: therefore my bowels H4578 are troubled H1993 for him; I will surely H7355 have mercy H7355 upon him, saith H5002 the LORD. H3068 Strong's Number - H4578 Hebrew: מעה Transliteration: mê‛eh Pronunciation: may-aw' Definition: From an unused root probably meaning to be soft; used only in plural the {intestines} or (collectively) the {abdomen} figuratively sympathy; by implication a vest; by extension the {stomach} the uterus (or of {men} the seat of {generation}) the heart (figuratively): - {belly} {bowels} X {heart} womb. KJV Usage: bowels (27x), belly (3x), heart (1x), womb (1x). Occurs: 32 In verses: 30 We use Heart, they used Bowel, they feel thoughts, we think thoughts. Note G4698, tender bowels?. Luke 1:78 [78]Through G1223 the tender G4698 mercy G1656 of our G2257 God; G2316 whereby G3739 the G1722 dayspring G395 from G1537 on high G5311 hath visited G1980 us, G2248 Acts 1:18 [18]Now G3767 this G3303 man G3778 purchased G2932 a field G5564 with G1537 the reward G3408 of iniquity; G93 and G2532 falling G1096 headlong, G4248 he burst asunder G2997 in the midst, G3319 and G2532 all G3956 his G846 bowels G4698 gushed out. G1632
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Mar 2, 2021 5:34:49 GMT -5
Are you suggesting the incarnation and immaculate conception are myths? I gather you believe the biblical story of Gods intervention was not only mythical but in sum, harmful. Are you also of the persuasion that all political victory is sin, and all political weakness is virtue? Selfishness is not a sin. A realistic person knows we are all selfish. The second best definition of sin is selfishness expressed without regard for others. The first is selfishness without regard for God. I’m not convinced you have a belief in God so as to distinguish between the two. Humanism is an empty religion compared to theism. And deism is similarly empty to humanism. The religion to pursue is a personal relationship with God and fellowship with your divine brothers and sisters. I don’t see the 2x2 falling apart since the Covid shutdown. Neither the LDS church. Neither the church I go to. Certainly it is refining us, but you are mistaken to suppose most of us are shallow. Im suggesting they used myths to help carry a message. No different to the OT. However the difference is the message was not supernatural based. The progressive understanding of God went from God in the sky in Abraham's day to God in you in the NT. The risen Christ is lived out in you! Not he's sitting in a air-conditioned venus (or what ever other idea you may entertain) pulling levers and interjecting at random by way of magic in random people's lives. Its harmful when people try to have a monopoly on God and think those not like them are sub human. Not sure where your political question is going? So is selfishness a sin or not a sin, you seem to say both?. Selfishness without regard for God is selfishness without regard for others. Righteousness is generosity. How many examples does Christ use righteousness/generosity as the defining factor. Declaring Humanism as empty is to ignore Christ. Your idea of a relationship with God is the culmination of my second point. A monopoly on god with your exclusive bretheren. The idea of God is he enters the Chaos, not hides himself away with the exclusives. The covid has brought out the reliance on the religious system. Which shines the spotlight on what people think is important.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 4, 2021 16:19:39 GMT -5
You’ve said a lot here and I think I’ll refrain from parsing. I think you and I disagree on whether God is something measurable in a tangible, revealed, political, or historical sense. The Bible declares God in each of these senses but you’ve placed it all into question.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 4, 2021 16:33:38 GMT -5
Your antipathy to supernatural revelation is not good. Supernatural revelation reminds us our lives were supernaturally born. We didn’t just happen. The atheism of spontaneous evolution is a lie.
I’ve argued before that we are supernatural, only God is natural. Consider that.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 4, 2021 16:36:43 GMT -5
The dollar bill declares “Out of order chaos”.
This is wrong. Chaos begets chaos. The only order you can derive from chaos is the false order of communism.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 4, 2021 16:38:36 GMT -5
Monopoly on God?
How about Gods monopoly on people (ownership), even a people, ‘his people’.
Choose your center.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 4, 2021 21:54:22 GMT -5
Your antipathy to supernatural revelation is not good. Supernatural revelation reminds us our lives were supernaturally born. We didn’t just happen. The atheism of spontaneous evolution is a lie. I’ve argued before that we are supernatural, only God is natural. Consider that. What do you mean, I was supernaturally born. My mother was NOT a virgin, no matter what you think of her.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 4, 2021 22:14:26 GMT -5
The dollar bill declares “Out of order chaos”. This is wrong. Chaos begets chaos. The only order you can derive from chaos is the false order of communism. My God, -Lee! -haven't you looked under your bed lately?
Surely by now that little red communist guy has dried up to nothing but a bit of dust?
I fear you keep worrying yourself about nothing!
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Mar 4, 2021 23:11:42 GMT -5
The dollar bill declares “Out of order chaos”. This is wrong. Chaos begets chaos. The only order you can derive from chaos is the false order of communism. My God, -Lee! -haven't you looked under your bed lately?
Surely by now that little red communist guy has dried up to nothing but a bit of dust?
I fear you keep worrying yourself about nothing!
Any conservative who's been watching Washington DC over the past 6 weeks doesn't need to look under their bed to find that little red communist
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 4, 2021 23:17:22 GMT -5
My God, -Lee! -haven't you looked under your bed lately?
Surely by now that little red communist guy has dried up to nothing but a bit of dust?
I fear you keep worrying yourself about nothing! Any conservative who's been watching Washington DC over the past 6 weeks doesn't need to look under their bed to find that little red communist QAnon rhetoric.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 23:23:37 GMT -5
Any conservative who's been watching Washington DC over the past 6 weeks doesn't need to look under their bed to find that little red communist QAnon rhetoric. i miss your ranting about Nazi's...is QAnon your new boogymen?
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Mar 4, 2021 23:27:49 GMT -5
Any conservative who's been watching Washington DC over the past 6 weeks doesn't need to look under their bed to find that little red communist
QAnon rhetoric.
Not really.... Its an obvious observation.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 4, 2021 23:28:22 GMT -5
i miss your ranting about Nazi's...is QAnon your new boogymen? They're allied now. Get with it, slacker.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 4, 2021 23:29:07 GMT -5
Not really.... Its an obvious observation. Yes, it is -- to a QAnon Trumpist.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 23:29:48 GMT -5
Not really.... Its an obvious observation.
damn...another good meme....
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 4, 2021 23:35:59 GMT -5
Not really.... Its an obvious observation. damn...another good meme.... Yes -- QAnon for certain that one is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 23:38:04 GMT -5
i miss your ranting about Nazi's...is QAnon your new boogymen? They're allied now. Get with it, slacker. when i see the horned guy with nazi symbols on his chest i'll start getting curious....mr. boogyman
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 23:41:46 GMT -5
damn...another good meme.... Yes -- QAnon for certain that one is. when i see a death toll of 140-200 million from socialism/communism come out of QAnon activity then we'll have a real problem i'll be worried about....
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 5, 2021 2:01:01 GMT -5
Yes -- QAnon for certain that one is. when i see a death toll of 140-200 million from socialism/communism come out of QAnon activity then we'll have a real problem i'll be worried about.... Wally, You may well see a lot more than 140-200 million death toll from the final results of QAnon.
QAnon is such insidious Machiavellian idea that is difficult to track and is appealing to people who can't seem to face reality and want some kind of an easy answer to the problems facing the world.
History has shown a lot more of such times than it has of being sensible.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 6, 2021 23:30:45 GMT -5
For as long as we don’t have hard core communism in the states, while the left makes up their narratives the right will be countering with theirs.
The relationship between Trump and Qanon is they both believe they are right and they both believe good will win.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 6, 2021 23:35:27 GMT -5
Your antipathy to supernatural revelation is not good. Supernatural revelation reminds us our lives were supernaturally born. We didn’t just happen. The atheism of spontaneous evolution is a lie. I’ve argued before that we are supernatural, only God is natural. Consider that. What do you mean, I was supernaturally born. My mother was NOT a virgin, no matter what you think of her. Your interpretive filter of the world is philosophical naturalism. The worldview of the lazy.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 6, 2021 23:39:35 GMT -5
What do you mean, I was supernaturally born. My mother was NOT a virgin, no matter what you think of her. Your interpretive filter of the world is philosophical naturalism. The worldview of the lazy. So do you suggest I turn to QAnon?
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 7, 2021 0:11:49 GMT -5
I’d read the Bible and read it to believe it for once. That doesn’t mean you have to dissolve every skepticism but it does mean replacing your own center with an assumption of God. God, as in a creator we relate to.
Qanon is like marvel comic books.
You can hang your hat on the idea good will triumph over evil but their heroics delve into phantasm.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 7, 2021 0:19:38 GMT -5
I’d read the Bible and read it to believe it for once. I've done that a lot over the years. I've never thought of doing that anyway. Do I have to "assume" that?
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 7, 2021 0:22:48 GMT -5
It’s a choice but you will become a different person based on your assumption.
Now in the case of some people they may be ‘born’.
Outwardly at least, my walk with God might resemble an evolution.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 7, 2021 0:41:39 GMT -5
It’s a choice but you will become a different person based on your assumption. I like my reputation the way it is among those who know me personally. I was already born. Won't that make people think you're an evolutionist?
|
|