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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 19:29:06 GMT -5
ah that the blind could see and the deaf hear.... Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. if you are gonna deny that is not "knocking them down" you are in more trouble than i thought you were...elder There is no evidence that He used physical violence on those men nor even touched them. It says they fell backward not pushed/shoved nor by any other means did they fall to the ground. it does not say they "fell backwards" it says "they went backward, and fell to the ground." it was from the power he had or the power of his voice he had... you are desperately in trouble elder like i thought can't tell if its a lying thing, an English thing or an understanding scripture thing, what ever it is God isn't gonna like it...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 19:31:18 GMT -5
yeah right, where did i make anything up? you shouldn't lie like that elder...God doesn't like that....good try though mr. pollyanna.... Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering. 2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. i don't think your attempt to deny scripture or play word games involves any of that elder...
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Post by chuck on Feb 22, 2021 19:32:45 GMT -5
then "they" doesn't change my post at all...good try though atheist.... no it doesn't, because you never got it in the first place.
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Post by speak on Feb 22, 2021 19:32:45 GMT -5
There is no evidence that He used physical violence on those men nor even touched them. It says they fell backward not pushed/shoved nor by any other means did they fall to the ground. it does not say they "fell backwards" it says "they went backward, and fell to the ground." it was from the power he had or the power of his voice he had... you are desperately in trouble elder like i thought can't tell if its a lying thing, an English thing or an understanding scripture thing, what ever it is God isn't gonna like it... Well in that case it proves that He used no violence on them. You know that there is some thing about you that when you are questioned about something you wriggle like a worm and get nasty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 19:37:28 GMT -5
it does not say they "fell backwards" it says "they went backward, and fell to the ground." it was from the power he had or the power of his voice he had... you are desperately in trouble elder like i thought can't tell if its a lying thing, an English thing or an understanding scripture thing, what ever it is God isn't gonna like it... Well in that case it proves that He used no violence on them. You know that there is some thing about you that when you are questioned about something you wriggle like a worm and get nasty. ummm when people get "knocked down" thats the epitome of violence....good try though elder...pollyanna worldviews rarely end up bbeing good for anyone...
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Post by nathan on Feb 22, 2021 19:38:14 GMT -5
** How about the 2 times Jesus made whips and drove the money changers out of the temple court yard. Jesus turned over their tables and chased them out with the cords he made. You don't call that is a violent person? Did He hit any of them? I am only aware that Jesus only drove them out once, but if there is another time I would appreciate chapter and verse please. Jesus made cord/whips to hit them with and they got scared and droved them out of the temple court yards, twice in 3 years. To them Jesus was a MAD, Crazy and a violent man.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 22, 2021 19:42:15 GMT -5
He submitted to the will of God and used no violence. The difference between Him and you is that you would have shot them all and He would still have forgiven them. hmmmmm knocking people down is not violence? that wouldn't be biblical nor the historical understanding of violence in general elder... good try though "...knocking people down?" Wally?Do you mean that Jesus was physically "knocking people down" when it states in these gospels in these verses? (Matthew 26:47-56; Mark 14:43-52; Luke 22:47-53) 1When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. 2And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples. 3Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. 8Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: 9That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. 10Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 19:46:28 GMT -5
hmmmmm knocking people down is not violence? that wouldn't be biblical nor the historical understanding of violence in general elder... good try though "...knocking people down?" Wally?Do you mean that Jesus was physically "knocking people down" when it states in these gospels in these verses? (Matthew 26:47-56; Mark 14:43-52; Luke 22:47-53) 1When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. 2And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples. 3Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. 8Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: 9That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. 10Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? yes of course that is what it says...he said "i am he" and they went backward and fell to the ground....it was a physical reaction to his power or his voice of power...they did not fall down of their own volition...they were not playing simon says or tag your it....
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Post by speak on Feb 22, 2021 19:56:14 GMT -5
Did He hit any of them? I am only aware that Jesus only drove them out once, but if there is another time I would appreciate chapter and verse please. Jesus made cord/whips to hit them with and they got scared and droved them out of the temple court yards, twice in 3 years. To them Jesus was a MAD, Crazy and a violent man. Did He hit their bodies with the whip?
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Post by speak on Feb 22, 2021 19:59:09 GMT -5
Well in that case it proves that He used no violence on them. You know that there is some thing about you that when you are questioned about something you wriggle like a worm and get nasty. ummm when people get "knocked down" thats the epitome of violence....good try though elder...pollyanna worldviews rarely end up bbeing good for anyone... He didn't knock them down period and He wasn't nasty like you are.
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Post by speak on Feb 22, 2021 20:00:14 GMT -5
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering. 2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. i don't think your attempt to deny scripture or play word games involves any of that elder... Ha ha how funny you are.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 22, 2021 20:00:16 GMT -5
Well in that case it proves that He used no violence on them. You know that there is some thing about you that when you are questioned about something you wriggle like a worm and get nasty. ummm when people get "knocked down" thats the epitome of violence....good try though elder...pollyanna worldviews rarely end up bbeing good for anyone... Wally, -are claiming that Jesus physically "knocked down" those officers who came to get him in the garden?
◄ John 18 ► New King James Version 1When Jesus had spoken these words, He went out with His disciples over the Brook Kidron, where there was a garden, which He and His disciples entered. 2And Judas, who betrayed Him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with His disciples.
3Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
5They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
6Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?”
I checked every translation that we have available to us and they all stated the same thing, that " they drew back and fell to the ground."
No place did any of translations say that Jesus did anything more than just asked them “Whom are you seeking?”
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 20:01:19 GMT -5
ummm when people get "knocked down" thats the epitome of violence....good try though elder...pollyanna worldviews rarely end up bbeing good for anyone... He didn't knock them down period and He wasn't nasty like you are. denial is not gonna help you or anyone else you wish to mislead about what he did in those verses...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 20:04:46 GMT -5
ummm when people get "knocked down" thats the epitome of violence....good try though elder...pollyanna worldviews rarely end up bbeing good for anyone... Wally, -are claiming that Jesus physically "knocked down" those officers who came to get him in the garden?
◄ John 18 ► New King James Version 1When Jesus had spoken these words, He went out with His disciples over the Brook Kidron, where there was a garden, which He and His disciples entered. 2And Judas, who betrayed Him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with His disciples.
3Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
5They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
6Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?”
I checked every translation that we have available to us and they all stated the same thing, that " they drew back and fell to the ground."
No place did any of translations say that Jesus did anything more than just asked them “Whom are you seeking?”
au contrare read verse 6 again in the KJV.... he said "I am he" and down they went like a sack of doorknobs...
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Post by Roselyn T on Feb 22, 2021 20:06:53 GMT -5
Wally, -are claiming that Jesus physically "knocked down" those officers who came to get him in the garden?
◄ John 18 ► New King James Version 1When Jesus had spoken these words, He went out with His disciples over the Brook Kidron, where there was a garden, which He and His disciples entered. 2And Judas, who betrayed Him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with His disciples.
3Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
5They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
6Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?”
I checked every translation that we have available to us and they all stated the same thing, that " they drew back and fell to the ground."
No place did any of translations say that Jesus did anything more than just asked them “Whom are you seeking?”
au contrare.... he said "I am he" and down they went like a sack of doorknobs... For goodness sake @wally...that does not mean he physically hit them !!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 20:09:52 GMT -5
au contrare.... he said "I am he" and down they went like a sack of doorknobs... For goodness sake @wally ...that does not mean he physically hit them !! he used his voice or his power to do it never did i say he used his hands or his feet...did everyones understanding English IQ drop sharply in the last few hours? good try though
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Post by xna on Feb 22, 2021 20:10:56 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you read in the bible.
For example; How did Judas die?
By hanging (Matthew 27:5), or did he die by falling and bursting open (Acts 1:18)?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 20:13:37 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you read in the bible. For example; How did Judas die? By hanging (Matthew 27:5), or did he die by falling and bursting open (Acts 1:18)? that is a puzzler still not exactly sure which it was...apologetics has come up with this though....he hung himself high up in a tree and the rope broke and when he fell he burst open....
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Post by nathan on Feb 22, 2021 20:15:45 GMT -5
Jesus made cord/whips to hit them with and they got scared and droved them out of the temple court yards, twice in 3 years. To them Jesus was a MAD, Crazy and a violent man. Did He hit their bodies with the whip? *** How do you KNOW that he didn't? The action using a cord/whips that is a violent person. He could have told them, please leave! But he didn't. Jesus violent acts drove them out of the temple court yard NOT once but TWICE! In 3 years. Oh, yea they remember the mad, Crazy, and violent man for sure.
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Post by openingact34 on Feb 22, 2021 20:20:46 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you read in the bible. For example; How did Judas die? By hanging (Matthew 27:5), or did he die by falling and bursting open (Acts 1:18)? that is a puzzler still not exactly sure which it was...apologetics has come up with this though....he hung himself high up in a tree and the rope broke and when he fell he burst open.... And if another conflicting account said that Judas was eaten by a shark, they would have said that the tree branch was sticking over the ocean. The shark came along after he hung himself high in tree and splattered on the rocks during low tide.
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Post by nathan on Feb 22, 2021 20:21:21 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you read in the bible. For example; How did Judas die? By hanging (Matthew 27:5), or did he die by falling and bursting open (Acts 1:18)? *** By hanging, the body decomposed then it fell and hit the ground burst and parts scatter every where.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 22, 2021 20:32:51 GMT -5
Wally, -are claiming that Jesus physically "knocked down" those officers who came to get him in the garden?
◄ John 18 ► New King James Version 1When Jesus had spoken these words, He went out with His disciples over the Brook Kidron, where there was a garden, which He and His disciples entered. 2And Judas, who betrayed Him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with His disciples.
3Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
5They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
6Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?”
I checked every translation that we have available to us and they all stated the same thing, that " they drew back and fell to the ground."
No place did any of translations say that Jesus did anything more than just asked them “Whom are you seeking?”
au contrare read verse 6 again in the KJV.... he said "I am he" and down they went like a sack of doorknobs... Why the hell do you think I need to "read verse 6 again?"
I was the one who just got through posting it!
It does not say anywhere that Jesus deliberately or intentionally "knocked down" those officers!
You know what I think you are doing wally?
No?
Well, I am going to tell you anyway.
I think that you would twist the the bible to say anything in order to justify your point of view and this time it is trying to justify the use of violence.
What say ye?
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Post by xna on Feb 22, 2021 20:33:06 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you read in the bible. For example; How did Judas die? By hanging (Matthew 27:5), or did he die by falling and bursting open (Acts 1:18)? *** By hanging, the body decomposed then it fell and hit the ground burst and parts scatter every where. A nice convenient apologetic answer.
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Post by speak on Feb 22, 2021 20:47:49 GMT -5
Did He hit their bodies with the whip? *** How do you KNOW that he didn't? The action using a cord/whips that is a violent person. He could have told them, please leave! But he didn't. Jesus violent acts drove them out of the temple court yard NOT once but TWICE! In 3 years. Oh, yea they remember the mad, Crazy, and violent man for sure. How do you know He did? It is not recorded that He did therefor He didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 20:58:39 GMT -5
au contrare read verse 6 again in the KJV.... he said "I am he" and down they went like a sack of doorknobs... Why the hell do you think I need to "read verse 6 again?"
I was the one who just got through posting it!
It does not say anywhere that Jesus deliberately or intentionally "knocked down" those officers!
You know what I think you are doing wally?
No?
Well, I am going to tell you anyway.
I think that you would twist the the bible to say anything in order to justify your point of view and this time it is trying to justify the use of violence.
What say ye?and i posted it before you did, what is your point?... you along with your down under pals have a serious lack of understanding what happened here in scripture or don't know how the English language works, that is what i say... whatever motivations you think i might have you should keep to your irrational self... good try though
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 21:02:07 GMT -5
*** How do you KNOW that he didn't? The action using a cord/whips that is a violent person. He could have told them, please leave! But he didn't. Jesus violent acts drove them out of the temple court yard NOT once but TWICE! In 3 years. Oh, yea they remember the mad, Crazy, and violent man for sure. How do you know He did? It is not recorded that He did therefor He didn't. so much for revelation and guidance of the Holy Spirit and a bit of common sense....
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Post by nathan on Feb 22, 2021 21:44:06 GMT -5
*** How do you KNOW that he didn't? The action using a cord/whips that is a violent person. He could have told them, please leave! But he didn't. Jesus violent acts drove them out of the temple court yard NOT once but TWICE! In 3 years. Oh, yea they remember the mad, Crazy, and violent man for sure. How do you know He did? It is not recorded that He did therefor He didn't. *** Like I wrote Jesus didn't have to hit anyone, his action running around chasing people with a cord/whip made him look like a MAD, Crazy, lunatic, and violent man.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 22:03:15 GMT -5
How do you know He did? It is not recorded that He did therefor He didn't. *** Like I wrote Jesus didn't have to hit anyone, his action running around chasing people with a cord/whip made him look like a MAD, Crazy, lunatic, and violent man. well that ends the debate for you.....
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