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Post by Roselyn T on Feb 22, 2021 22:28:24 GMT -5
Have a look at page 16 on the "try again" thread nathan, then have a look at @wally's response to you. ** And I clarified Wally's post, did you read it? You clarified what YOU THINK nathan ...nothing more ! Can you explain why the HS gives different answers to different people nathan ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 22:30:28 GMT -5
God IS good evil is just the opposite of all that. I'm not so sure he controls/makes it up. I.E he could not turn around and call evil good and good evil...its not in his nature to do that...to my understanding that is.... Let me ask it differently. Could god make a world without evil? if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... even in the new earth new heaven and new jerusalem the lake of fire will still exist somewhere its just that all the evil will be locked up there in the lake of fire forever....
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Post by xna on Feb 22, 2021 22:41:45 GMT -5
Let me ask it differently. Could god make a world without evil? God the Father and Christ/God created the world with goodness without evil but Satan, 1/3 of the fallen angels, Adam and Eve, and billions humans choose Evil over good so they MUST pay for the their own choices/sins= Separation from God for eternity.
God can't allow evil to enter the New heaven and earth, it will ruin everything again like the last time Satan caused War in heaven.
Why not take choosing evil off the menu?
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 22, 2021 23:29:24 GMT -5
Let me ask it differently. Could god make a world without evil? if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... even in the new earth new heaven and new jerusalem the lake of fire will still exist somewhere its just that all the evil will be locked up there in the lake of fire forever.... Why would a "world without evil" mean there would need to be an elimination free will? Besides, the only reason we even have a term called "free will" was because it was coined by us to take god off the hook for punishing us.
Oh, dear me, -we surely did a number on our own selves!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 23:34:06 GMT -5
if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... even in the new earth new heaven and new jerusalem the lake of fire will still exist somewhere its just that all the evil will be locked up there in the lake of fire forever.... Why would a "world without evil" mean there would need to be an elimination free will? Besides, the only reason we even have a term called "free will" was because it was coined by us to take god off the hook for punishing us.
Oh, dear me, -we surely did a number on our own selves!
why free will? there would be no choices to make....
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Post by nathan on Feb 22, 2021 23:38:49 GMT -5
God the Father and Christ/God created the world with goodness without evil but Satan, 1/3 of the fallen angels, Adam and Eve, and billions humans choose Evil over good so they MUST pay for the their own choices/sins= Separation from God for eternity.
God can't allow evil to enter the New heaven and earth, it will ruin everything again like the last time Satan caused War in heaven.
Why not taken choosing evil off the menu? God give us Freewill, each person can do or choose it him or herself... Just say NO! partaken the forbidden fruit/Serpent or Satan and eat the Tree of LIFE means accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior. God wants to give each and every of the choice to be with Him and Christ or to be with the Serpent/Satan= which only leads to Second Death! Lake of fire for eternity.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 2:17:37 GMT -5
Let me ask it differently. Could god make a world without evil? if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... . What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 2:29:33 GMT -5
Why not taken choosing evil off the menu? God give us Freewill, each person can do or choose it him or herself... Just say NO! partaken the forbidden fruit/Serpent or Satan and eat the Tree of LIFE means accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior. God wants to give each and every of the choice to be with Him and Christ or to be with the Serpent/Satan= which only leads to Second Death! Lake of fire for eternity.
If god had free will he could have chosen to make all choices only good choices. No need to add evil & hell into the equation.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 2:43:35 GMT -5
** And I clarified Wally's post, did you read it? You clarified what YOU THINK nathan ...nothing more ! Can you explain why the HS gives different answers to different people nathan ? There are TWO main spirits in the world, the Godhead Vs. Satan, and 1/3 fallen angels. The Holy Spirit always point people to follow Christ/Jesus and God the Father. Satan, fallen angels, and their demonic army point people AWAY from following God the Father and Christ New Testament teachings, Truth and Way on earth.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 2:45:49 GMT -5
if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... . What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. There are MUCH work for the true believers to be accomplished on earth and in the Universe during the 1000 years reigning with Christ, before they rest from their labors in the New heaven and earth.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 23, 2021 2:49:08 GMT -5
As a Christian, I have to say that there are a number of very valid questions, for which there is no bigoted “know it all” answer, and some of those questions have been raised here, and that is where faith comes in.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 2:53:20 GMT -5
What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. There are MUCH work for the true believers to be accomplished on earth and in the Universe during the 1000 years reigning with Christ, before they rest from their labors in the New heaven and earth.So the new earth and new heaven will not have any evil. If this is so, then it could have been made that way on the first try, not the 3rd try. And why would a god need people to do this “work” for him? He made the universe in 6 days, but it takes 1,000 years for the punch card work?
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Post by chuck on Feb 23, 2021 2:54:36 GMT -5
One problem with the Christian hell is; it's an infinite punishment for a finite crime. Which is immoral justice, on it's face. Another is that it greatly diminishes the suffering of Jesus. Lets say Jesus suffered on the cross and other times for say 365 days. How long do those in hell suffer, 365,000 days, no, for an eternity! This makes Jesus suffering look trivial in the whole scheme of the Christian mythology. Or perhaps your reading it wrong like millions of others....... Is it even a possibility in your mind.....
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Post by chuck on Feb 23, 2021 3:29:43 GMT -5
i've never used the term "if you don't see it like me you will burn"...pay attention buttercup It is a simple question @wally, why can't you answer it ? chuck is asking you a question, he is NOT saying "you said or didn't say". There are only 2 options Yes or No !! It's gone way too far to answer it now. I doubt he ever will. Hopefully it makes him think about it though.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 8:35:35 GMT -5
Lets say you have two neighbors who both invite you over for dinner.
Neighbor A has prepared a nice meal with a variety of food dishes for you to choose from. All are good, healthy and tasty.
Neighbor B has also prepared a nice meal with a variety of food dishes for you to choose from. All are good, healthy and tasty except for the food in the brown dishes, those are poison, and if you eat them they will kill you.
You have free will to eat from any dish at both neighbors, but neighbor B is a psychopath, and should be locked up.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -5
There are MUCH work for the true believers to be accomplished on earth and in the Universe during the 1000 years reigning with Christ, before they rest from their labors in the New heaven and earth. So the new earth and new heaven will not have any evil. If this is so, then it could have been made that way on the first try, not the 3rd try. And why would a god need people to do this “work” for him? He made the universe in 6 days, but it takes 1,000 years for the punch card work? No, evilness shall be in the New earth and Heaven. God wants to give the humans freewill to choose to be with Him, His Son/Christ, the Holy Spirit and all of the angels they created. God could have created robots to love Him but that would be NO joy to His hearts. The Godhead wants the humans want to love them and be with them with Divine LOVE and willingness to Serve them for eternity.
The Godhead wants to share the glory of God so, he created Adam, Eve and their children in their image and likeness= Immortality. This way they can reign and rule with them through out the Universe, before God created Adam and Eve, they had populated the Universe with Zillions intelligence beings, God wants us to spread the goodness to share with them who Yahweh God is, and bring them inside of His wonderful family and kingdom when Jesus comes back as King of kings to rule over His creation.
Now, on earth we learn about the God the Father, Christ through the teaching of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't want us to teach other beings with our sinful nature, that was why Jesus said Ye MUST be Born Again to enter the kingdom of God.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 10:30:28 GMT -5
if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... . What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. Conventions and Sunday morning worship meetings on earth are a taste of heaven will be like. People come together from all nations to worship God, Christ and Holy Spirit and having fellowship with one another instead of two weeks conventions but it will be forever.
That it doesn't sound like robots to me, a time of fellowship, stress free from the world. When we attend the conventions we want it to LAST forever... so it shall be...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 10:39:40 GMT -5
if he eliminated free will and we were all robot like.... . What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. it doesn't list everything we will be doing in heaven it does mention worship i believe and reigning...
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 11:34:30 GMT -5
So the new earth and new heaven will not have any evil. If this is so, then it could have been made that way on the first try, not the 3rd try. And why would a god need people to do this “work” for him? He made the universe in 6 days, but it takes 1,000 years for the punch card work? No, evilness shall be in the New earth and Heaven. God wants to give the humans freewill to choose to be with Him, His Son/Christ, the Holy Spirit and all of the angels they created. God could have created robots to love Him but that would be NO joy to His hearts. The Godhead wants the humans want to love them and be with them with Divine LOVE and willingness to Serve them for eternity.
The Godhead wants to share the glory of God so, he created Adam, Eve and their children in their image and likeness= Immortality. This way they can reign and rule with them through out the Universe, before God created Adam and Eve, they had populated the Universe with Zillions intelligence beings, God wants us to spread the goodness to share with them who Yahweh God is, and bring them inside of His wonderful family and kingdom when Jesus comes back as King of kings to rule over His creation.
Now, on earth we learn about the God the Father, Christ through the teaching of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't want us to teach other beings with our sinful nature, that was why Jesus said Ye MUST be Born Again to enter the kingdom of God.
So according to you god was able to make an earth without evil, but was not willing to do so. Evil was part of his plan as we read in Isaiah 45:7 “ I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 11:36:36 GMT -5
What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. Conventions and Sunday morning worship meetings on earth are a taste of heaven will be like. People come together from all nations to worship God, Christ and Holy Spirit and having fellowship with one another instead of two weeks conventions but it will be forever.
That it doesn't sound like robots to me, a time of fellowship, stress free from the world. When we attend the conventions we want it to LAST forever... so it shall be...I didn’t see stress free people at conventions.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 11:46:13 GMT -5
What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. it doesn't list everything we will be doing in heaven it does mention worship i believe and reigning... You have very little to go on from the Bible about what it’s like in heaven. The sales pitch is more like “it’s vastly better than going to hell”.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 12:21:25 GMT -5
What you read they do in heaven sure sounds like robots to me. it doesn't list everything we will be doing in heaven it does mention worship i believe and reigning... ** They are enoying convention in heaven 2000 yrs ago, to this day and much more to come as times go on... Read Rev. Chapters 5-7. God the Father sitting at the top and the Lamb of God/Jesus standing in the center= The Bread and wine center in the center of the room. In heaven the Lamb surrounded by 24 elders and great multitude numbers angels of God. And a another great multitude large gathering of believers from all nations through the centuries standing, given praises, adoration to God the Father, singing hymns of Salvation to the Lamb, who died for their sins. For the last 2000 yrs God has been calling and gathering people from the earth through the preaching and teaching through His apostles and people. This way they will help Christ/Jesus when he returns to set up His eternal kingdom, preaching the gospel of Yahweh to all intelligence beings in the Universe to become members/citizens of His family/Kingdom. Satan will be defeated, after 1000 yrs reign then judgment day for unbelievers. The celebration marriage of the= God, Christ and ALL re SAVED intelligence beings in the Universe, angels of God, and True humans believers will LIVE On New earth and heaven forever. This has been the Godhead will and plans before they created the Universe.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 12:24:37 GMT -5
Conventions and Sunday morning worship meetings on earth are a taste of heaven will be like. People come together from all nations to worship God, Christ and Holy Spirit and having fellowship with one another instead of two weeks conventions but it will be forever.
That it doesn't sound like robots to me, a time of fellowship, stress free from the world. When we attend the conventions we want it to LAST forever... so it shall be... I didn’t see stress free people at conventions. ** NOT convention on earth, but convention in heaven will be stress free! No more sicknesses, death. God will wipe away all of our tears and sorrows. Conventions on earth are a little taste of the REAL convention in heaven.
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Post by Gene on Feb 23, 2021 12:34:44 GMT -5
According to the bible, all things was his plan, and he could have chosen not to have hell for anyone. ummm...the nature of God cannot abide sin/evil...it has to go somewhere...otherwise were back to a robot universe again where there is no evil(i say thats impossible).... So in other words @wally, Heaven?
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 12:35:52 GMT -5
I didn’t see stress free people at conventions. [ Suppose , for some who go to conventions for a “holiday “ and to be served , it would be very stress free and want it to last forever . For those with responsibilities, it can be very stressful and tiring , serving etc . Not unusual , for people to think and express even in testimony, about the “miracle” of convention . Well , conventions don’t just “happen “ , and a lot of “stress” involved , so yes, lots of stressed people and some oblivious to it , enjoying the holiday Alvin ** Amen, when I was in the work, I was in charge i washing dishes at conventions 3 meals a day and that was very tiring and stressful when I don't have helpers to do the job. Yes, there is a lot of preparation and work needed to be done behind the scene for the conventions to be enjoyable and stress free to 2 weeks.
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Post by nathan on Feb 23, 2021 12:47:59 GMT -5
“Conventions on earth are a little taste of the REAL convention in heaven.” Hmmmm , might be true for some , but for others ,with their TERRIBLE convention experiences, (and there are plenty)that would not be a good analogy Alvin *** Satan wants to ruin the good conventions experience with bad and shady characters at Conventions on earth. I and many friends for 40 yrs have good experiences and time at conventions. To us that is a foretaste of heaven conventions are taken place in heaven right now. There will be NO evil and bad people be at the convention in heaven.
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Post by xna on Feb 23, 2021 13:30:37 GMT -5
I didn’t see stress free people at conventions. ** NOT convention on earth, but convention in heaven will be stress free! No more sicknesses, death. God will wipe away all of our tears and sorrows. Conventions on earth are a little taste of the REAL convention in heaven. So you think heaven was stress free when the angles rebelled and got kicked out?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 13:51:55 GMT -5
ummm...the nature of God cannot abide sin/evil...it has to go somewhere...otherwise were back to a robot universe again where there is no evil(i say thats impossible).... So in other words @wally , Heaven? i don't think a robot life is our destiny. like i've said before even in the future new earth, new heaven, new jerusalem there will still be evil trapped in the lake of fire...as far as we can tell from the good book
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