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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 7, 2021 10:13:16 GMT -5
154 years ago today, William Irvine was born, on January 7, 1863. Because of this man, members of this group are connected. His birth had an effect our lives in various ways. Following is a brief history of his early life. Family: His parents married on December 9, 1858. Over the next two decades they had eleven children, the third of which was William Irvine, born on January 7, 1863, in Newtown, Kilsyth, Lanarkshire, Scotland. No middle name was provided on his birth registry, however, the initials W.E.I. were engraved in gold on his Bible cover, and a few publications use the name William Weir Irvine. No other documents with a middle name have surfaced. His mother, Elizabeth Grassam, was born in Larbert, Scotland, on November 10, 1833, and died November 25, 1897, aged 64. His father, John, was born in Falkirk, Scotland, on July 8, 1833, and died August 12, 1913, aged 80. In birth order, their eleven children were John, Margaret, William, James, Agnes, Henry No. 1, Henry No. 2, Elizabeth, Jane (Jeanie), Helen (Nellie), and Janet (Jennie). The two Henry sons died in early childhood. Exactly thirty years later, the January 7, 1893, Motherwell Times contained an announcement that revival services would be held on January 8–13, 1893, in Motherwell, Lanarkshire, Scotland, conducted by evangelist Rev. John McNeill. According to his official biography, Rev. John McNeill, His Life and Work (Gammie 1933), he was affiliated with Dwight L. Moody's evangelistic campaign from 1892 to 1907. Also on his birthday, on January 8, 1893, the day after he turned thirty, William Irvine made his choice to serve the Lord in Rev. McNeill's first service held in the Motherwell Town Hall. On the anniversary date of his conversion, he would often recall in his letters the unexpected decision he made that day in 1893 that altered the course of his life. "Seventy-two years ago, I was born into a Presbyterian family; forty-two years ago, I was born into the family of which Jesus is the head, as Adam is of the human family. A Presbyterian preacher was the means" (Jan. 8, 1934, to Billett, TTT). Documents written by his close friends, Edward Cooney, John Long, Joe Kerr, and Goodhand Pattison, provide further confirmation that Irvine was converted through Rev. John McNeill, as well as newspaper accounts. 1893: Employment Resignation. Five days after his decision to serve the Lord, Irvine openly confessed his choice to the men over whom he was taskmaster. He began his thirty-first year deciding whom he would and would not serve. He jettisoned habits, friends, and activities (to Kerrs, Dec. 4, 1921, TTT). Irvine "very soon found out that neither church nor world fitted the New Testament service of the Master I had chosen … I was not satisfied with my knowledge of the Book and wanted to get rid of much of my old infidelity and other things which I had learned. I had been in the yoke since I was eight years of age and could afford to take a little look around; and in spite of all my friends and enemies, I did what the Lord was prompting me to do" (to Dunbars, Oct. 13, 1920, TTT). Eight months later in September, he turned in his resignation to Baird & Co.; he walked away a free man on November 1, 1893, on what many thought was a "wild goose chase." He later stated, "I got saved and left the company forty-five years ago to follow and serve Jesus in the gospel, which created much talk and stirred people up to oppose doing such a foolish thing … but in spite of opposition in home, friends, and enemies, I went" (to W. Edwards, Feb. 18, 1938, in author's possession). 1893: Bible Training Institute. William Irvine left his job and moved in with his parents (where his son, Archie, may have been residing). He stipulated in a legal document that he "studied in the Bible Training Institute, Glasgow, for two years" (Irvine 1913, Statement, appendix B). He wrote, "I benefited in the Bible Institute by getting to know the Book according to the teachings of the best and most holy and evangelical missionary people in the world" (to Dunbars, Oct. 13, 1920, TTT). Influence of Irvine's Sister. Irvine claimed his spiritual turn-around in 1893 was influenced by the death of his sister, Margaret. He reminisced, "My favorite and elder sister died fifty-one years ago; but it broke my infidelity and rebellion against God" (to Grims, May 20, 1937, TTT). "I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was twenty-five and I, twenty-three, than to all other circumstances and events" (to Duncan, May 12, 1934, TTT). 1868–1871: Education. The 1880 Education Act made it compulsory for children between ages five and ten to attend school; this was extended to age twelve in 1899. In 1868 when William was five years old, he probably started school in Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire. After they moved to Glasgow, he attended school there, dropping out in the fourth grade when he started his first job. From the age of 20–30, he made up for his lack of education by attending night school after a long hard day at work, twelve miles from home. Travel at that time was by foot, bicycle, or horse. 1871–1893: Employment Record. As a grocery message boy, eight-year-old William Irvine earned £3 a week at his first job. At his second job at Gray Dunn's biscuit factory, he worked seventy-two hours a week for £4 a week. His third job was with Nelson's Foundry for £5 a week, making cores and little kettles. When he was ten years old, he started working underground in the coal mines for his father's employer, William Baird and Co. A strong, husky boy, by age 16, Irvine was earning more than his father. By the time he was 20, he was earning £200 a year. He and his older sister, Margaret, moved away from home; she was his housekeeper for three years until her death in 1886. From age 20–30, Irvine held various mining jobs, working his way to the top (General Manager) through very hard work. Courtship. Only once in Irvine's letters did he mention a sweetheart. "Bella Jarvis, who became Mrs. Shaw. She was a very nice sweet girl. When I gave her up, I went to Calderbank" (to John Lauchlin, Jan. 1, 1944, TTT). He never married, confiding, "what a tragedy it would have been for me to have married and dragged the woman I loved through all the conflict of these thirty-four years" (to Lauchlins, Feb. 23, 1927, TTT). 1895, June 14: Irvine Joined the Faith Mission. After completing two years at the Bible Institute, Irvine carefully considered his options, and on June 14, 1895, he "finally chose to join the Faith Mission, which showed the most spiritual and fire."
The above are excerpts from my not-yet-published book manuscript "Preserving the Truth." If you would like to be notified when it is published, provide your edress and I'll add it to my growing list. If you want to read some more about Irvine and the development of 2x2ism see my website Tellingthetruth.info. For sample chapters of my book and more, see my author website for Preserving the Truth
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 15:09:10 GMT -5
2x2's should be putting on a party today. Then again probably would rather not talk about him. Company policy. Most Churches have great respect for their founder.
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Post by fixit on Jan 7, 2021 19:28:43 GMT -5
2x2's should be putting on a party today. Then again probably would rather not talk about him. Company policy. Most Churches have great respect for their founder. It seems that William Irvine moved away from the founding principles.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2021 19:34:25 GMT -5
2x2's should be putting on a party today. Then again probably would rather not talk about him. Company policy. Most Churches have great respect for their founder. It seems that William Irvine moved away from the founding principles. Power corrupts.
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Post by fixit on Jan 7, 2021 20:06:40 GMT -5
It seems that William Irvine moved away from the founding principles. Power corrupts. I suspect that was the case. As one current overseer put it: "William Irvine's end was not as good as his beginning".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 9:58:15 GMT -5
The stone that the 2x2s rejected was their chief corner stone. How long will the building stand?
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 10:35:01 GMT -5
The stone that the 2x2s rejected was their chief corner stone. How long will the building stand? William Irvine is NOT The 2x2 is NOT chief cornerstone but Christ Jesus who is our ONLY CHIEF cornerstone! William Irvine left or excommunicated from the ministry 1914 and the fellowship in 1917. The 2x2s has prospered and growing for 123 years AFTER William Irvine left in 1917 as a 2x2.
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Post by mountain on Feb 5, 2021 12:46:28 GMT -5
The stone that the 2x2s rejected was their chief corner stone. How long will the building stand? William Irvine is NOT The 2x2 is NOT chief cornerstone but Christ Jesus who is our ONLY CHIEF cornerstone! William Irvine left or excommunicated from the ministry 1914 and the fellowship in 1917. The 2x2s has prospered and growing for 123 years AFTER William Irvine left in 1917 as a 2x2. Was it not said 'No William - No testimony?'
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 14:05:31 GMT -5
William Irvine is NOT The 2x2 is NOT chief cornerstone but Christ Jesus who is our ONLY CHIEF cornerstone! William Irvine left or excommunicated from the ministry 1914 and the fellowship in 1917. The 2x2s has prospered and growing for 123 years AFTER William Irvine left in 1917 as a 2x2. Was it not said 'No William - No testimony?' ** God would raise other men and women to carry on Jesus 2x2 New Testament ministry like God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit has done the last 2000 years and still sending forth workers today! To the time of Jesus RETURNS! Jesus said in Matthew 16: 18 to the apostles Upon this RCOK, I will build MY CHURCH! And the gates of HELL shall NOT able to STOP it. In Matthew 24 Jesus said when he returns he will send the angels to gather the TRUE believers from around the world... So, God's people exists 4 corners of the earth! Like Jesus had said even the gates of HELL can DESTROY HIS Truth and Way on earth. They can slow down the progress but they can't wipe it out completely because God will NOT allow that to happen.
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Post by Dan on Feb 5, 2021 16:14:55 GMT -5
William Irvine's birthday? What a coincidence! I guess a lot of great men were born on February 5th
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 16:30:50 GMT -5
William Irvine's birthday? What a coincidence! I guess a lot of great men were born on February 5th January 7, 1863
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Post by chuck on Feb 5, 2021 16:59:58 GMT -5
The stone that the 2x2s rejected was their chief corner stone. How long will the building stand? William Irvine is NOT The 2x2 is NOT chief cornerstone but Christ Jesus who is our ONLY CHIEF cornerstone! William Irvine left or excommunicated from the ministry 1914 and the fellowship in 1917. The 2x2s has prospered and growing for 123 years AFTER William Irvine left in 1917 as a 2x2. Why continue the William Irvine tradition then?. Do you know why they didn't take shoes, moneybags, staffs Nathan?.
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 18:16:10 GMT -5
William Irvine is NOT The 2x2 is NOT chief cornerstone but Christ Jesus who is our ONLY CHIEF cornerstone! William Irvine left or excommunicated from the ministry 1914 and the fellowship in 1917. The 2x2s has prospered and growing for 123 years AFTER William Irvine left in 1917 as a 2x2. Why continue the William Irvine tradition then?. Do you know why they didn't take shoes, moneybags, staffs Nathan?. ** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many uncessary things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs.
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Post by xna on Feb 5, 2021 19:23:08 GMT -5
There weren’t many new ideas with William’s denomination formula. While the 2x2 reject the claim he started their new religious movement, yet after 150 years there remains a lot of preoccupation with him by the 2x2.
Evidently he was a womanizer. But I never read that he was a pedophile. His formula of celibate preachers is a perfect harbor plan for pedophiles like is found in the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church documents child sexual abuse from 1629 where child abuse claims were made by fellow priests. Evidently he would have known about this design defect in his formula and would at least made it a top of mind danger zone in his preaching. As far as I know he never brought the subject up. I guess it was a taboo topic back then.
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 20:04:24 GMT -5
There weren’t many new ideas with William’s denomination formula. While the 2x2 reject the claim he started their new religious movement, yet after 150 years there remains a lot of preoccupation with him by the 2x2. Evidently he was a womanizer. But I never read that he was a pedophile. His formula of celibate preachers is a perfect harbor plan for pedophiles like is found in the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church documents child sexual abuse from 1629 where child abuse claims were made by fellow priests. Evidently he would have known about this design defect in his formula and would at least made it a top of mind danger zone in his preaching. As far as I know he never brought the subject up. I guess it was a taboo topic back then. ** It was God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit who set up the 2x2 apostolic itinerant ministry! A life of selfless of His servants. There have been workers who died in the work to the end. Jesus has set the perfect example for His TRUE servants to follow; Christ/God left his home in heaven to come down to this earth live in a human body and die a human death on Calvary to pay for our sins to set our souls free from Hades/inner earth or Satan's prison. Christ wants those whom he send forth in the ministry to have the same passion and love for the souls of men and women, boys and girls. By laying down their dreams, jobs, career and potential of having families of their own to LIVE for others. By their willingness to follow Jesus examples as the TRUE shepherd, they will encourage their converts to do the same living for others like Jesus has done. We have an ENEMY Satan, the fallen angels walking on the earth looking for souls whom they might devour, getting the to exchange eternal life for wealth, fame and the riches of this world. There has been workers, the friends fall into Satan's traps and snares and gave up their crowns of life. Feeding and nourishing their own humans weaknesses of lust, greed and pride/their own demons so, it grows too strong for them to control it. As long we live on the earth we are on the battle field, it's NOT over until we reach to the other side.
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Post by xna on Feb 5, 2021 21:00:54 GMT -5
There weren’t many new ideas with William’s denomination formula. While the 2x2 reject the claim he started their new religious movement, yet after 150 years there remains a lot of preoccupation with him by the 2x2. Evidently he was a womanizer. But I never read that he was a pedophile. His formula of celibate preachers is a perfect harbor plan for pedophiles like is found in the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church documents child sexual abuse from 1629 where child abuse claims were made by fellow priests. Evidently he would have known about this design defect in his formula and would at least made it a top of mind danger zone in his preaching. As far as I know he never brought the subject up. I guess it was a taboo topic back then. ** It was God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit who set up the 2x2 apostolic itinerant ministry! A life of selfless of His servants. There have been workers who died in the work to the end.
Jesus has set the perfect example for His TRUE servants to follow; Christ/God left his home in heaven to come down to this earth live in a human body and die a human death on Calvary to pay for our sins to set our souls free from Hades/inner earth or Satan's prison.
Christ wants those whom he send forth in the ministry to have the same passion and love for the souls of men and women, boys and girls. By laying down their dreams, jobs, career and potential of having families of their own to LIVE for others.
By their willingness to follow Jesus examples as the TRUE shepherd, they will encourage their converts to do the same living for others like Jesus has done.
We have an ENEMY Satan, the fallen angels walking on the earth looking for souls whom they might devour, getting the to exchange eternal life for wealth, fame and the riches of this world.
There has been workers, the friends fall into Satan's traps and snares and gave up their crowns of life. Feeding and nourishing their own humans weaknesses of lust, greed and pride/their own demons so, it grows too strong for them to control it.
As long we live on the earth we are on the battle field, it's NOT over until we reach to the other side.1. It was well known before William Irvine that a celibate clergy attracts pedophiles. William Irvine must have surely known this. Jerusalem was a small town during his day. All they do there is argue about different religions then, and they still do that to this day. The Eastern Orthodox Church in Jerusalem is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They fixed this problem to allow married men to be ordained to the priesthood. It must have been well known in Jerusalem why they did this. William Irvine's formula of having the clergy stay in home greatly enhances the attraction for pedophiles vs even the RCC. 2. If you think William Irvine didn't start the 2x2 why is #1 in your tag line on every post "Excomm: William Irvine/Edward C/John L? " It seems you don't want William Irvine forgotten, but use every post to remind people of William Irvine.
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 22:44:20 GMT -5
** It was God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit who set up the 2x2 apostolic itinerant ministry! A life of selfless of His servants. There have been workers who died in the work to the end.
Jesus has set the perfect example for His TRUE servants to follow; Christ/God left his home in heaven to come down to this earth live in a human body and die a human death on Calvary to pay for our sins to set our souls free from Hades/inner earth or Satan's prison.
Christ wants those whom he send forth in the ministry to have the same passion and love for the souls of men and women, boys and girls. By laying down their dreams, jobs, career and potential of having families of their own to LIVE for others.
By their willingness to follow Jesus examples as the TRUE shepherd, they will encourage their converts to do the same living for others like Jesus has done.
We have an ENEMY Satan, the fallen angels walking on the earth looking for souls whom they might devour, getting the to exchange eternal life for wealth, fame and the riches of this world.
There has been workers, the friends fall into Satan's traps and snares and gave up their crowns of life. Feeding and nourishing their own humans weaknesses of lust, greed and pride/their own demons so, it grows too strong for them to control it.
As long we live on the earth we are on the battle field, it's NOT over until we reach to the other side. 1. It was well known before William Irvine that a celibate clergy attracts pedophiles. William Irvine must have surely known this. Jerusalem was a small town during his day. All they do there is argue about different religions then, and they still do that to this day. The Eastern Orthodox Church in Jerusalem is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They fixed this problem to allow married men to be ordained to the priesthood. It must have been well known in Jerusalem why they did this. William Irvine's formula of having the clergy stay in home greatly enhances the attraction for pedophiles vs even the RCC. 2. If you think William Irvine didn't start the 2x2 why is #1 in your tag line on every post "Excomm: William Irvine/Edward C/John L? " It seems you don't want William Irvine forgotten, but use every post to remind people of William Irvine. ** There will always be bad apples like Judas, the traitor, backsiders Christians in Jesus days, the apostles days, the next 1900 yrs and even the last 120 years of 2x2 history! 40-60% 2x2 workers and the friends Didn't finish their race with honor. William Irvine, John Long, and Edward Cooney testimonies show us NO ONE is 100% SAVED until we reach to the other side! Please, be alert and put on your whole amour of God and rely on God and Christ power to fight against Satan Evil force and sneak attacks from all sides. Married in work with children are NOT very practical life for the children. Follow Jesus example as unmarried apostle NOT Peter or other married apostles with children. Jesus allowed Peter and other married apostles in the ministry but He recommends to follow his example as an married preacher of the gospel read Matthew 19. Married workers without children are Ok.
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Post by nathan on Feb 5, 2021 23:26:58 GMT -5
One can rest assured , and be comforted , by the fact that Jesus would also be excommunicated , from the current f&w church . No way the workers would tolerate someone like Jesus who wouldn’t obey or follow their rules , plus on top of that , verbally challenge their authority and hierarchy . He’d be in big trouble , and would receive a “worker visit “ in a hurry . Alvin ** Jesus Christ our Lord God would let the overseers, the workers, and the elders KNOW who is really in charge of His CHURCH, like he did with the 7 churches in the book of Revelation! HE told them to REPENT or their sins, wicaked ways or their names will be remove from the book of life. Change their corrupt ways on how to deal with CSA correctly! And false teaching Jesus is NOT God Almighty.
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Post by nathan on Feb 6, 2021 1:22:27 GMT -5
Imagine they would just discard Him, as they have done to so many , and label him as a “bitter”ex , not willing to submit- oh , too bad he “lost out “ . O well Alvin I don't believe Jesus has left the 2x2s ministry or the New Testament Church that he established 2000 years, he is still in charge and sit on the throne watching the workers, the friends and the exes closely.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 6, 2021 1:50:09 GMT -5
Why continue the William Irvine tradition then?. Do you know why they didn't take shoes, moneybags, staffs Nathan?. ** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many uncessary things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs. No underpants or socks...... weird cult.
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Post by nathan on Feb 6, 2021 2:33:35 GMT -5
** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many unimportant things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs. No underpants or socks...... weird cult. haha... are you that dumb to think the workers forget to take those important items? You were a 2x2 for many years. If it was a weird cult, why were you a 2x2? Were you NOT that smart cookie back then?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 6, 2021 2:36:11 GMT -5
No underpants or socks...... weird cult. haha... are you that dumb to think the workers forget to take those important items? You were a 2x2 for many years. If it was a weird cult, why did you were a 2x2? Were you NOT that smart cookie back then?
Third generation, brain washed from an early age. What's your excuse?
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Post by mountain on Feb 6, 2021 4:04:58 GMT -5
** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many uncessary things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs. No underpants or socks...... weird cult. These garments weren't thought of, never mind worn back in the day.
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Post by chuck on Feb 6, 2021 8:55:44 GMT -5
Why continue the William Irvine tradition then?. Do you know why they didn't take shoes, moneybags, staffs Nathan?. ** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many uncessary things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs. It is William Irvines tradition. He didn't know why they didn't take shoes money bags and staff just like you, but he had a brainwave that maybe that's what he should do and started the 2x2 tradition thinking he was doing exactly what they did 1900 years ago. Only he had no clue at all. This is why its important to at least acknowledge the Hebraic perspective and understand the custom of Jewish Rabbai's, they couldn't take shoes, staffs or money bags into a temple........ And as for carry light, seems like a full boot load to me. As well as laptops, phones, instruments, and "what's the wifi password?" when they walk in the door.... Seems hardly like what they did 2000 years ago. Not only that but I can quite clearly remember the ear bashings on the internet and computers and smart phones....... the word Hypocrit comes to mind. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. - Matthew 23:1-7 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew23:1-7&version=NIV
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Post by chuck on Feb 6, 2021 9:03:25 GMT -5
There weren’t many new ideas with William’s denomination formula. While the 2x2 reject the claim he started their new religious movement, yet after 150 years there remains a lot of preoccupation with him by the 2x2. Evidently he was a womanizer. But I never read that he was a pedophile. His formula of celibate preachers is a perfect harbor plan for pedophiles like is found in the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church documents child sexual abuse from 1629 where child abuse claims were made by fellow priests. Evidently he would have known about this design defect in his formula and would at least made it a top of mind danger zone in his preaching. As far as I know he never brought the subject up. I guess it was a taboo topic back then. ** It was God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit who set up the 2x2 apostolic itinerant ministry! A life of selfless of His servants. There have been workers who died in the work to the end. Jesus has set the perfect example for His TRUE servants to follow; Christ/God left his home in heaven to come down to this earth live in a human body and die a human death on Calvary to pay for our sins to set our souls free from Hades/inner earth or Satan's prison. Christ wants those whom he send forth in the ministry to have the same passion and love for the souls of men and women, boys and girls. By laying down their dreams, jobs, career and potential of having families of their own to LIVE for others. By their willingness to follow Jesus examples as the TRUE shepherd, they will encourage their converts to do the same living for others like Jesus has done. We have an ENEMY Satan, the fallen angels walking on the earth looking for souls whom they might devour, getting the to exchange eternal life for wealth, fame and the riches of this world. There has been workers, the friends fall into Satan's traps and snares and gave up their crowns of life. Feeding and nourishing their own humans weaknesses of lust, greed and pride/their own demons so, it grows too strong for them to control it. As long we live on the earth we are on the battle field, it's NOT over until we reach to the other side. This is religion. Man made religion. God Jesus Bible talk with zero applicable teaching for our daily interaction with man. Pure 2x2ism. Nothing to do with Christ's teachings.
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Post by chuck on Feb 6, 2021 9:08:07 GMT -5
1. It was well known before William Irvine that a celibate clergy attracts pedophiles. William Irvine must have surely known this. Jerusalem was a small town during his day. All they do there is argue about different religions then, and they still do that to this day. The Eastern Orthodox Church in Jerusalem is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They fixed this problem to allow married men to be ordained to the priesthood. It must have been well known in Jerusalem why they did this. William Irvine's formula of having the clergy stay in home greatly enhances the attraction for pedophiles vs even the RCC. 2. If you think William Irvine didn't start the 2x2 why is #1 in your tag line on every post "Excomm: William Irvine/Edward C/John L? " It seems you don't want William Irvine forgotten, but use every post to remind people of William Irvine. ** There will always be bad apples like Judas, the traitor, backsiders Christians in Jesus days, the apostles days, the next 1900 yrs and even the last 120 years of 2x2 history! 40-60% 2x2 workers and the friends Didn't finish their race with honor. William Irvine, John Long, and Edward Cooney testimonies show us NO ONE is 100% SAVED until we reach to the other side! Please, be alert and put on your whole amour of God and rely on God and Christ power to fight against Satan Evil force and sneak attacks from all sides. Married in work with children are NOT very practical life for the children. Follow Jesus example as unmarried apostle NOT Peter or other married apostles with children. Jesus allowed Peter and other married apostles in the ministry but He recommends to follow his example as an married preacher of the gospel read Matthew 19. Married workers without children are Ok. It must be awful not knowing if you've done enough to save yourself from Hell till after you die. Luckily Christ saved All from themselves already. Trust In the Character of Christ to lead you to the best outcomes in life. That's salvation. Why don't you trust in it Nathan......
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Post by nathan on Feb 6, 2021 10:31:02 GMT -5
haha... are you that dumb to think the workers forget to take those important items? You were a 2x2 for many years. If it was a weird cult, why did you were a 2x2? Were you NOT that smart cookie back then?
Third generation, brain washed from an early age. What's your excuse? God told me to join the 2x2s in 1978 Bible Studies on the island of Guam University campus lawn so I joined and still in it.
You throw away your crown of life, you will regret with sorrows and pains for all eternity. Just like that 1 talent who buried his gift under ground, at the end he wished he had used the talent God had given him wisely.
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Post by nathan on Feb 6, 2021 11:03:18 GMT -5
** It's NOT William Irvine tradition or experiment but he copied or Follow Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, which he got from the Faith Mission, when he became their 2x2 worker in 1893. It was Jesus instructions in Matthew 10 and Luke to the 12 and 70 apostles and all those send forth by God through down the centuries even to this very days! God wants His them to go forth preaching the gospel in faith starting with nothing! Jesus said something to like this " Seek ye FIRST, the kingdom of God then all materials things such foods, homes to stay, clothes to wear, money for the journey shall be given you... You shall gain 100 folds, homes, families in this life and the next to come" go preaching in Faith and God will provide for all your needs through his His true believers and people hospitalities. *** It was couple weeks missions in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus didn't want the apostles to carry too many uncessary things with them! Be light on the go with anyone, anywhere and at anytime. Today, every worker starts in the work have a suit case, 3 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, 1 pairs of shoes, and a suite for meeting that it! Carry light if there is a need to another field or country, they can be ready in a few hrs. It is William Irvines tradition. He didn't know why they didn't take shoes money bags and staff just like you, but he had a brainwave that maybe that's what he should do and started the 2x2 tradition thinking he was doing exactly what they did 1900 years ago. Only he had no clue at all. This is why its important to at least acknowledge the Hebraic perspective and understand the custom of Jewish Rabbai's, they couldn't take shoes, staffs or money bags into a temple........ And as for carry light, seems like a full boot load to me. As well as laptops, phones, instruments, and "what's the wifi password?" when they walk in the door.... Seems hardly like what they did 2000 years ago. Not only that but I can quite clearly remember the ear bashings on the internet and computers and smart phones....... the word Hypocrit comes to mind. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. - Matthew 23:1-7 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew23:1-7&version=NIV William Irvine knew exactly what he was doing because he learned it from the Faith Mission when he joined them as their preacher in 1895-1900. The Faith Mission preachers followed Jesus example of Matthew 10 instruction to the 12 apostles. Go forth by Faith and God will provide all of their needs.
Jesus told the 12, 70 to go and preach the gospel that the Messiah has come mostly to the Children of Israel and they were NOT told go to the temple but everywhere, but not to the Gentiles people at the time but later on.
William Irvine had a wonderful revelation of Jesus Truth and Way apostolic 2x2 ministry in the beginning but he lost his vision and understanding at the end around 1914 and was excommunicated from the ministry and fellowship 1917. WI was a Faith Mission preacher in 1897 and told John Long about Jesus 2x2 apostolic and he became a Faith Mission member in 1898-1914.
In 1897 Many believed William Irvine the Faith Mission 2x2 workers/apostolic ministry, but many of William Irvine converts didn't want to join the Faith Mission group or become their members. They started on their own like and later became KNOWN as the 2x2 friends and workers in 1900s.
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