|
Post by xna on Feb 8, 2021 21:46:27 GMT -5
From the outsiders view, it looks like the 2x2 and RCC had that goal in mind. I highly doubt that that is what they set out to do. Doesn't mean that there are not those among the group that do though. To suggest that the discussion was had "one of our goals is to ruin kids lives by assaulting them" is silly to say the least. My point is; Putting children in harms way for CSA is designed into denominations that have celibate preachers, the extreme example is the 2x2 with preachers staying in the home. William Irvine's design could have just be a coincidence. His denomination formula does make me wonder. Catholic dioceses across the United States have paid more than $3 billion dollars to victims of clergy abuse.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2021 22:08:43 GMT -5
I highly doubt that that is what they set out to do. Doesn't mean that there are not those among the group that do though. To suggest that the discussion was had "one of our goals is to ruin kids lives by assaulting them" is silly to say the least. My point is; Putting children in harms way for CSA is designed into denominations that have celibate preachers, the extreme example is the 2x2 with preachers staying in the home. William Irvine's design could have just be a coincidence. His denomination formula does make me wonder. Catholic dioceses across the United States have paid more than $3 billion dollars to victims of clergy abuse. who designed it?.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 8, 2021 22:37:38 GMT -5
Good question. In Hinduism, an older religion than Christianity, celibacy is usually associated with the sadhus. With Christianity I see there is a lot of history on the clerical celibacy. I understand in the Faith Mission movement, the preachers were married. But, other older similar movements had celibate preachers. It looks to me that Irvine borrowed the celibate clergy idea from the RCC. Celibate preachers are more the exception than the rule today, and the practice is unnatural. My concern is not so much about the history but the potential for abuse and harm to children with such a scheme. It seem to be an old bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 8, 2021 23:57:34 GMT -5
I highly doubt that that is what they set out to do. Doesn't mean that there are not those among the group that do though. To suggest that the discussion was had "one of our goals is to ruin kids lives by assaulting them" is silly to say the least. My point is; Putting children in harms way for CSA is designed into denominations that have celibate preachers, the extreme example is the 2x2 with preachers staying in the home. William Irvine's design could have just be a coincidence. His denomination formula does make me wonder. Catholic dioceses across the United States have paid more than $3 billion dollars to victims of clergy abuse. The one situation that absolutely blew me away was the professing mother who allowed her daughter(s) to sleep in the room with a brother worker. I refused to let my grandson go out for a walk with a brother worker, and not just to prevent CSA.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 0:03:24 GMT -5
Good question. In Hinduism, an older religion than Christianity, celibacy is usually associated with the sadhus. With Christianity I see there is a lot of history on the clerical celibacy. I understand in the Faith Mission movement, the preachers were married. But, other older similar movements had celibate preachers. It looks to me that Irvine borrowed the celibate clergy idea from the RCC. Celibate preachers are more the exception than the rule today, and the practice is unnatural. My concern is not so much about the history but the potential for abuse and harm to children with such a scheme. It seem to be an old bad idea. ** Jesus was celibate preacher he called children to come to him. Did he sexually abused them? No, he did NOT and MOST of the apostles didn't either. There are many workers today and most of them are NOT attractive having sex with children... If they can't control their sexual urges, quit the work, get married and let others continue in the celibate life God has called them.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 9, 2021 0:07:53 GMT -5
Good question. In Hinduism, an older religion than Christianity, celibacy is usually associated with the sadhus. With Christianity I see there is a lot of history on the clerical celibacy. I understand in the Faith Mission movement, the preachers were married. But, other older similar movements had celibate preachers. It looks to me that Irvine borrowed the celibate clergy idea from the RCC. Celibate preachers are more the exception than the rule today, and the practice is unnatural. My concern is not so much about the history but the potential for abuse and harm to children with such a scheme. It seem to be an old bad idea. ** Jesus was celibate preacher he called children to come to him. Did he sexually abused them? No, he did NOT and MOST of the apostles didn't either. There are many workers today and most of them are NOT attractive having sex with children... If they can't control their sexual urges, quit the work, get married and let others continue in the celibate life God has called them. Does one discover he can't control his sexual urges before he actually loses control?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 0:32:37 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher he called children to come to him. Did he sexually abused them? No, he did NOT and MOST of the apostles didn't either. There are many workers today and most of them are NOT attractive having sex with children... If they can't control their sexual urges, quit the work, get married and let others continue in the celibate life God has called them. Does one discover he can't control his sexual urges before he actually loses control? A wise man once told me, "people don't change. They just get caught."
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 9, 2021 0:50:02 GMT -5
It seems that peophiles and other perverts are attracted to religious worship as that gives them access to vunerable people. Especially those cults such as the 2x2's where the male is dominant and should not be questioned. That makes victim blaming easier.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Feb 9, 2021 4:11:56 GMT -5
I can't speak for Nathan, but for myself I believe in what scripture says, rather than the enticing doctrines of demons. Not that I agree with everything in Nathan's post that you quote, but your response is perhaps considerably worse. And you being a rice eater too? "rather than the enticing doctrines of demons" What, like your gonna live for ever..... Jonah was in the belly of the fish forever..... you can have eternal life now...... Hebraic perspective..... Goodness me.......where do you get that stuff from? Not from my posts! If you are having designs on my entertainment role.......think again!
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 7:43:34 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher ....... Alleged 'Lost Gospel' Claims Jesus Had Wife, 2 Children
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 7:51:56 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher .... Lots of Ideas Sexuality of Jesus- Heterosexuality
- Homosexuality
- The naked youth
- Celibacy
- Bride of Christ
- Polygamy
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 10:16:33 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher .... Lots of Ideas Sexuality of Jesus- Heterosexuality
- Homosexuality
- The naked youth
- Celibacy
- Bride of Christ
- Polygamy MOST on the above list are Ass/u/me ideas... NOT the Truth. Jesus revealed of his sexuality, marriage as a Man preacher and God. in Matthew 19
Matthew 19:10-15 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by people; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this, let him accept it.” Jesus Blesses Little Children
Then some children were brought to Him so that He would lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Leave the children alone, and do not forbid them to come to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” After laying His hands on them, He departed from there. Jesus said in Matthew 18:6 whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Then Peter/apostle responded and said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children, wives or farms on account of My name, will receive 100 times more, and will inherit eternal life.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 10:20:48 GMT -5
Lots of Ideas Sexuality of Jesus- Heterosexuality- Homosexuality
- The naked youth
- Celibacy- Bride of Christ- Polygamy These are Ass/u/me ideas... NOT the Truth. Jesus revealed of his sexuality, marriage as a Man and God. in Matthew 19 But don't you always say "Let the reader decide".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 11:19:35 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher ....... Alleged 'Lost Gospel' Claims Jesus Had Wife, 2 Children not new news. and from what i remember from a few years ago not credible at all. what does surprise me is that simcha jacobovici would participate in this at all. he has made some very good movies in the past about things in the bible. my only thought is that being a jew he is setting out to discredit Jesus as the messiah.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 11:23:07 GMT -5
** Jesus was celibate preacher .... Lots of Ideas Sexuality of Jesus- Heterosexuality
- Homosexuality
- The naked youth
- Celibacy
- Bride of Christ
- Polygamyas the wiki article starts off saying...mere speculation...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 11:28:03 GMT -5
These are Ass/u/me ideas... NOT the Truth. Jesus revealed of his sexuality, marriage as a Man and God. in Matthew 19 But don't you always say "Let the reader decide". umm i don't believe he said NOT to post that. he is just posting his own belief on the matter which would be in the spirit of "let the reader decide"...
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 11:52:30 GMT -5
These are Ass/u/me ideas... NOT the Truth. Jesus revealed of his sexuality, marriage as a Man and God. in Matthew 19 But don't you always say "Let the reader decide". *** Yep, you present your and others belief, ideas, and understanding and I present mine understanding from the teachings of Jesus/God. Let the readers decide who they want to believe in speculation as Wally pointed out or Jesus own teachings on these matters. Can you imagine Jesus had a wife and told the apostles you LEAVE ALL of your families behind, your wives must stay as unmarried as my messengers but but for me, I can bring my wife with me. What kind of example is that to His apostles? I say a hypocrite.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 12:22:04 GMT -5
But don't you always say "Let the reader decide". *** Yep, you present your and others belief, ideas, and understanding and I present mine understanding from the teachings of Jesus/God. Let the readers decide who they want to believe in speculation as Wally pointed out or Jesus own teachings on these matters.
Can you imagine Jesus had a wife and told the apostles you must stay as unmarried as my messengers but I can bring my wife with me. What kind of example is that to His apostles?Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 12:39:17 GMT -5
*** Yep, you present your and others belief, ideas, and understanding and I present mine understanding from the teachings of Jesus/God. Let the readers decide who they want to believe in speculation as Wally pointed out or Jesus own teachings on these matters.
Can you imagine Jesus had a wife and told the apostles you must stay as unmarried as my messengers but I can bring my wife with me. What kind of example is that to His apostles? Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant. ummm "making" her pregnant was probably not the same process as having sex with her to get her pregnant. it would similar to accusing a male doctor of rape or adultery for physically using IVF treatments during an office vist.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 12:46:14 GMT -5
*** Yep, you present your and others belief, ideas, and understanding and I present mine understanding from the teachings of Jesus/God. Let the readers decide who they want to believe in speculation as Wally pointed out or Jesus own teachings on these matters.
Can you imagine Jesus had a wife and told the apostles you must stay as unmarried as my messengers but I can bring my wife with me. What kind of example is that to His apostles? Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant. ** You exes atheists got your verses all mixed up and you lost your understanding of the scriptures because you are no longer having the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the scriptures. Joseph and Mary were engaged NOT Married as husband and wife, yet. They didn't have any sexual intercourse with one another! Mary was a virgin. God had asked Mary for her permission to have the Messiah/ Savior to be begotton into he world. She said it was her honor to have the Messiah baby. After the birth of Jesus the Messiah, Mary and Joseph became husband and wife and had families of their own. To become the Messiah of humanity Jesus had to live and die as a human being so He could REDDEEM mankinkind. The SECOND Adam God/man to redeem the the first Adam sins.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 12:50:44 GMT -5
Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant. ** You exes atheists got your verses all mixed up and you lost your understanding of the scriptures because you are no longer having the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the scriptures. Joseph and Mary were engaged NOT Married as husband and wife, yet. They didn't have any sexual intercourse with one another! Mary was a virgin. God had asked Mary for her permission to have the Messiah/ Savior to be begotton into he world. She said it was her honor to have the Messiah baby After the birth of Jesus the Messiah, she and Joseph became husband and wife and had families of their own. thanks nathan i was gonna edit my post to reflect the betrothal thing but you beat me to it.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 12:52:31 GMT -5
Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant. ummm "making" her pregnant was probably not the same process as having sex with her to get her pregnant. it would similar to accusing a male doctor of rape or adultery for physically using IVF treatments during an office vist.I think Gen 6:1-4 is the first record of heavenly sex And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. If heavenly sex is not like human to human sex, then I would like to hear more details on how Mary got pregnant.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 12:57:49 GMT -5
Logic doesn't survive too long with the bible. For example: One of gods 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not commit adultery", but then he get's Mary, who is Joseph's wife pregnant. ** You exes atheists got your verses all mixed up and you lost your understanding of the scriptures because you are no longer having the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the scriptures. Joseph and Mary were engaged NOT Married as husband and wife, yet. They didn't have any sexual intercourse with one another! Mary was a virgin. God had asked Mary for her permission to have the Messiah/ Savior to be begotton into he world. She said it was her honor to have the Messiah baby. After the birth of Jesus the Messiah, Mary and Joseph became husband and wife and had families of their own. To become the Messiah of humanity Jesus had to live and die as a human being so He could REDDEEM mankinkind. The SECOND Adam God/man to redeem the the first Adam sins. You are right. I was exaggerating. "Getting another man fiancee pregnant" makes all the difference vs. "getting another mans wife pregnant".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 13:12:10 GMT -5
ummm "making" her pregnant was probably not the same process as having sex with her to get her pregnant. it would similar to accusing a male doctor of rape or adultery for physically using IVF treatments during an office vist. I think Gen 6:1-4 is the first record of heavenly sex And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. If heavenly sex is not like human to human sex, then I would like to hear more details on how Mary got pregnant. umm fallen angels having sex is not the same as what God did with mary...good try though
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 13:22:19 GMT -5
I think Gen 6:1-4 is the first record of heavenly sex And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. If heavenly sex is not like human to human sex, then I would like to hear more details on how Mary got pregnant. umm fallen angels having sex is not the same as what God did with mary...good try though How do you know?
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 13:32:08 GMT -5
ummm "making" her pregnant was probably not the same process as having sex with her to get her pregnant. it would similar to accusing a male doctor of rape or adultery for physically using IVF treatments during an office vist. I think Gen 6:1-4 is the first record of heavenly sex And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. If heavenly sex is not like human to human sex, then I would like to hear more details on how Mary got pregnant. Have you ever heard of insemination? No, sexual intercourse required. That what God the Father did, He inseminated Christ's Spirit inside Mary's womb to begotten Jesus God/Man human being to die for our sins. Acording to my understanding the Venusian humans looking Guardian angels can have SEX with the humans. I believe it was the fallen angels from the human looking angels who had sex with the humans women to create the Nephilims/Giants. There are many Orders or levels of angels. Some can't have Sex but others can.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 9, 2021 13:44:18 GMT -5
[ Have you ever heard of insemination? No, sexual intercourse required. That what God the Father did, He inseminated Christ's Spirit inside Mary's womb to begotten Jesus God/Man human being to die for our sins. Acording to my understanding the Venusian humans looking Guardian angels can have SEX with the humans. I read "... the first attempts to artificially inseminate a woman, were done by Henry IV (1425-1474), King of Castile, nicknamed the Impotent. In 1455, he married Princess Juana, sister of Afonso V of Portugal. After six years of marriage she gave birth to a daughter, Joanna" But then you must have that "secret knowledge". BTW: What's the 2x2 position on In Vitro Fertilization?
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 9, 2021 14:42:33 GMT -5
[ Have you ever heard of insemination? No, sexual intercourse required. That what God the Father did, He inseminated Christ's Spirit inside Mary's womb to begotten Jesus God/Man human being to die for our sins. Acording to my understanding the Venusian humans looking Guardian angels can have SEX with the humans. I read "... the first attempts to artificially inseminate a woman, were done by Henry IV (1425-1474), King of Castile, nicknamed the Impotent. In 1455, he married Princess Juana, sister of Afonso V of Portugal. After six years of marriage she gave birth to a daughter, Joanna" But then you must have that "secret knowledge". BTW: What's the 2x2 position on In Vitro Fertilization? *** The Intelligence beings that God and Christ created to populate the Universe from other planets in our galaxy and other galaxies had abducted the humans women and impregnated them through different methods sexual intercourse, insemination, vitro Fertilization for centuries or longer.
|
|