|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 3:51:43 GMT -5
luke 16....read it and weep... Chuck, you and BobW. need to READ your Bible more often and read Luke chapter 16. The Rich man and Lazarus again. Jesus told us about Hell/Hades the Realm of the dead and Paradise/heaven.
Please, don't tell us Christ/God Jesus didn't know what he was talking about Hell/Hades and heaven! He created both heaven for the believers and hell/Lake of fire for Satan, the fallen angels and the unbelievers to stay there forever.
Jude 6-7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, God hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
You do not even begin to grasp it Nathan. www.harvestherald.com/the-rich-man-and-lazarus.html
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jan 5, 2021 4:21:29 GMT -5
Chuck, you and BobW. need to READ your Bible more often and read Luke chapter 16. The Rich man and Lazarus again. Jesus told us about Hell/Hades the Realm of the dead and Paradise/heaven.
Please, don't tell us Christ/God Jesus didn't know what he was talking about Hell/Hades and heaven! He created both heaven for the believers and hell/Lake of fire for Satan, the fallen angels and the unbelievers to stay there forever.
Jude 6-7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, God hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
You do not even begin to grasp it Nathan. www.harvestherald.com/the-rich-man-and-lazarus.htmlDo you still attend the friends and workers church which Nathan and Wally belong to? Do you follow the Unitarian beliefs in the Harvest herald or just their concept or should I say lack of belief in hell? They certainly are questionable.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 5:23:26 GMT -5
Do you still attend the friends and workers church which Nathan and Wally belong to? Do you follow the Unitarian beliefs in the Harvest herald or just their concept or should I say lack of belief in hell? They certainly are questionable. Yes. No. Just because I don't agree with everything they say I do not adopt the childish approach of then thinking everything they say is bogus. Because clearly there is merit to things they say, some are just to childish to even acknowledge it. Im just pointing out the simple "scare the children" doctrine of hell is a literal firey place is ignorant to a whole manner of thing's that one would never ever consider unless made aware of. I believe in Hell, i just dont think the literal 4 different meaning hell that has evolved over time is a thing, Hell in the scriptures in the original language, concepts and culture seems more like a literal state of mind or a reality of your life choices. A life that smells like Gehenna!.
|
|
|
Post by openingact34 on Jan 5, 2021 10:21:28 GMT -5
More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history. GotQuestions explains: "Gehenna presented such a vivid image that Christ used it as a symbolic depiction of hell: a place of eternal torment and constant uncleanness, where the fires never ceased burning and the worms never stopped crawling (Matthew 10:28; Mark 9:47–48)." www.gotquestions.org/Gehenna.html
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 13:04:05 GMT -5
luke 16....read it and weep... Hades you mean..... Jesus didn't know your combined mutated version of a made up Hell (Sheol, Hades,Tartarus, Gehenna) existed. Wally prehaps some of the context of Luke 16, enjoy. www.harvestherald.com/the-rich-man-and-lazarus.htmlsorry i am gonna stick with what Christ said in luke 16 better than any corrupt website you could come up with..
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 13:35:01 GMT -5
sorry i am gonna stick with what Christ said in luke 16 better than any corrupt website you could come up with.. ** Amen! Wally. There are good websites out there with sound doctrines teachings. It seems Chuck gravitates to BAD websites with incorrect teachings and he passes and teaches theirs understanding to people on here.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 18:55:52 GMT -5
Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history. GotQuestions explains: "Gehenna presented such a vivid image that Christ used it as a symbolic depiction of hell: a place of eternal torment and constant uncleanness, where the fires never ceased burning and the worms never stopped crawling (Matthew 10:28; Mark 9:47–48)." www.gotquestions.org/Gehenna.htmlAgain, a depiction of which hell, there is 4 of them?. Gehenna, not hell, hell hasn't been invented yet, It was a rubbish dump and grave yard, a place that was always on fire, a place full of decaying flesh eating things, a place that sacrificed children. Pretty good description of someones life in the state of chaos. Why assume its symbolic of another actual place in another realm when it is a constant reoccuring theme of describing peoples lives.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 19:32:45 GMT -5
GotQuestions explains: "Gehenna presented such a vivid image that Christ used it as a symbolic depiction of hell: a place of eternal torment and constant uncleanness, where the fires never ceased burning and the worms never stopped crawling (Matthew 10:28; Mark 9:47–48)." www.gotquestions.org/Gehenna.htmlAgain, a depiction of which hell, there is 4 of them?. Gehenna, not hell, hell hasn't been invented yet, It was a rubbish dump and grave yard, a place that was always on fire, a place full of decaying flesh eating things, a place that sacrificed children. Pretty good description of someones life in the state of chaos. Why assume its symbolic of another actual place in another realm when it is a constant reoccuring theme of describing peoples lives. *** Chuck, you need to ask God to give you the Spirit of discernment and understanding the reality of Hell/Hades and Gehenna/Lake of fire. You are so confuse and have things all mixed up. You get your spiritual hell/hades and reality of hades/Gahenna all mixed up.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 20:24:47 GMT -5
sorry i am gonna stick with what Christ said in luke 16 better than any corrupt website you could come up with.. Wally do you really think Christ spoke and thought like a 21st century wally....
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 20:56:18 GMT -5
Again, a depiction of which hell, there is 4 of them?. Gehenna, not hell, hell hasn't been invented yet, It was a rubbish dump and grave yard, a place that was always on fire, a place full of decaying flesh eating things, a place that sacrificed children. Pretty good description of someones life in the state of chaos. Why assume its symbolic of another actual place in another realm when it is a constant reoccuring theme of describing peoples lives. *** Chuck, you need to ask God to give you the Spirit of discernment and understanding the reality of Hell/Hades and Gehenna/Lake of fire. You are so confuse and have things all mixed up. You get your spiritual hell/hades and reality of hades/Gahenna all mixed up. Hades/Gehenna is not a thing, why would you say it is. Its Hades the greek mythology underworld and Gehenna the town rubbish dump. It goes like this. Sheol translated to Hell Hades translated to Hell Tartarus translated to Hell Gehenna translated to Hell When will you understand the word Hell was not a thing, 4 things as 1 was never considered or even a thing like your western mind read it literally. You start at Hell(after Christ)and go back. You start with 1 and apply it to 4 and then call me confused.......
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 21:05:50 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts
There is no such place as a fiery torment that lasts forever for wicked people. That was a construction on scriptures that actually speak of the Adamic death, the second death and complete destruction.
'Sheol' is the Hebrew word for the common grave of mankind, that is, the penalty of death passed on to all mankind by the first man Adam because of his disobedience to God's first law. See Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3:19. If Adam had not sinned, his progeny would have filled the earth and lived forever - which was YHWH's original purpose in creating mankind on the earth. See Psalm 37:9-11
It also means 'pit', such as a hole in the ground.
Jesus was willing to take the penalty of death upon himself, so that people who believe in him and follow his instructions might gain back the everlasting life that Adam had lost for all mankind. Moreover when on earth he picked out the ones who would be 'priests and kings' in the heavenly government; those footstep followers who had been 'bought from the earth' (Revelation chapters 7 and 14 and 2Timothy 2:12)
Gehenna, which some people associate with a place of fiery torment for the wicked, was a rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. It is Greek for 'the valley of Hinnom'. It was made into a rubbish dump because it was the place where the Jews sacrificed their children to Molech in fire. Dead animals and criminals were thrown into Gehenna as well as rubbish. Sulphur kept the rubbish fire burning as a sanitary measure. So Gehenna became the word to mean complete destruction. Of course, good people who died were buried in the 'memorial tombs', not the valley of Hinnom.
'Hades' just means the underworld. That is, where people are buried when they die. Greek myths have nothing to do with bible truth. Hades was the only word available to describe the grave to Greek speaking people.
The 'lake of fire' was another symbol of complete destruction in Jesus' prophecy at Revelation 20:14, You will notice that 'Death and Hades' were hurled into the lake of fire. These are not people. It means that people will no longer die the Adamic death. See Revelation 21.
The state of death is described at Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 "...a live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all. Neither do they any more have wages because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished...."
Lazarus died the Adamic death. Jesus described the dead Lazarus as "sleeping" -John 11:11
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 21:10:01 GMT -5
sorry i am gonna stick with what Christ said in luke 16 better than any corrupt website you could come up with.. Wally do you really think Christ spoke and thought like a 21st century wally.... that doesn't change what Christ said in luke 16...you either believe what he said in the bible or you don't...i suspect you don't...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 21:17:25 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts There is no such place as a fiery torment that lasts forever for wicked people. That was a construction on scriptures that actually speak of the Adamic death, the second death and complete destruction. 'Sheol' is the Hebrew word for the common grave of mankind, that is, the penalty of death passed on to all mankind by the first man Adam because of his disobedience to God's first law. See Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3:19. If Adam had not sinned, his progeny would have filled the earth and lived forever - which was YHWH's original purpose in creating mankind on the earth. See Psalm 37:9-11 It also means 'pit', such as a hole in the ground. Jesus was willing to take the penalty of death upon himself, so that people who believe in him and follow his instructions might gain back the everlasting life that Adam had lost for all mankind. Moreover when on earth he picked out the ones who would be 'priests and kings' in the heavenly government; those footstep followers who had been 'bought from the earth' (Revelation chapters 7 and 14 and 2Timothy 2:12) Gehenna, which some people associate with a place of fiery torment for the wicked, was a rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. It is Greek for 'the valley of Hinnom'. It was made into a rubbish dump because it was the place where the Jews sacrificed their children to Molech in fire. Dead animals and criminals were thrown into Gehenna as well as rubbish. Sulphur kept the rubbish fire burning as a sanitary measure. So Gehenna became the word to mean complete destruction. Of course, good people who died were buried in the 'memorial tombs', not the valley of Hinnom. 'Hades' just means the underworld. That is, where people are buried when they die. Greek myths have nothing to do with bible truth. Hades was the only word available to describe the grave to Greek speaking people. The 'lake of fire' was another symbol of complete destruction in Jesus' prophecy at Revelation 20:14, You will notice that 'Death and Hades' were hurled into the lake of fire. These are not people. It means that people will no longer die the Adamic death. See Revelation 21. The state of death is described at Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 "...a live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all. Neither do they any more have wages because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished...." Lazarus died the Adamic death. Jesus described the dead Lazarus as "sleeping" -John 11:11 we get it you can corrupt scripture at will, hopefully no one will fall for it...
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 21:47:12 GMT -5
Wally do you really think Christ spoke and thought like a 21st century wally.... that doesn't change what Christ said in luke 16...you either believe what he said in the bible or you don't...i suspect you don't... Ok so if you want to read it literally at face value in 21st century wally understanding. Christ never mentioned, "Missions", "Meetings", "Conventions", "Workers", "TV", and the list goes on and on and on....... of all this dreamt up dribble that Christ never uttered a literal word about. Who's doctrine are you following wally because Christ never said it.....
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 21:48:27 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts There is no such place as a fiery torment that lasts forever for wicked people. That was a construction on scriptures that actually speak of the Adamic death, the second death and complete destruction. 'Sheol' is the Hebrew word for the common grave of mankind, that is, the penalty of death passed on to all mankind by the first man Adam because of his disobedience to God's first law. See Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3:19. If Adam had not sinned, his progeny would have filled the earth and lived forever - which was YHWH's original purpose in creating mankind on the earth. See Psalm 37:9-11 It also means 'pit', such as a hole in the ground. Jesus was willing to take the penalty of death upon himself, so that people who believe in him and follow his instructions might gain back the everlasting life that Adam had lost for all mankind. Moreover when on earth he picked out the ones who would be 'priests and kings' in the heavenly government; those footstep followers who had been 'bought from the earth' (Revelation chapters 7 and 14 and 2Timothy 2:12) Gehenna, which some people associate with a place of fiery torment for the wicked, was a rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. It is Greek for 'the valley of Hinnom'. It was made into a rubbish dump because it was the place where the Jews sacrificed their children to Molech in fire. Dead animals and criminals were thrown into Gehenna as well as rubbish. Sulphur kept the rubbish fire burning as a sanitary measure. So Gehenna became the word to mean complete destruction. Of course, good people who died were buried in the 'memorial tombs', not the valley of Hinnom. 'Hades' just means the underworld. That is, where people are buried when they die. Greek myths have nothing to do with bible truth. Hades was the only word available to describe the grave to Greek speaking people. The 'lake of fire' was another symbol of complete destruction in Jesus' prophecy at Revelation 20:14, You will notice that 'Death and Hades' were hurled into the lake of fire. These are not people. It means that people will no longer die the Adamic death. See Revelation 21. The state of death is described at Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 "...a live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all. Neither do they any more have wages because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished...." Lazarus died the Adamic death. Jesus described the dead Lazarus as "sleeping" -John 11:11 we get it you can corrupt scripture at will, hopefully no one will fall for it... Not my words.I would have said if they were.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 22:38:17 GMT -5
that doesn't change what Christ said in luke 16...you either believe what he said in the bible or you don't...i suspect you don't... Ok so if you want to read it literally at face value in 21st century wally understanding. Christ never mentioned, "Missions", "Meetings", "Conventions", "Workers", "TV", and the list goes on and on and on....... of all this dreamt up dribble that Christ never uttered a literal word about. Who's doctrine are you following wally because Christ never said it..... he never uttered the word pedophile either...but we can safely make all sorts of conclusions over that... we get missions from when he sent out the 70 we get meetings from acts 2 and where ever it mentions "church in the home/house" and "assembling" we get conventions from the sermon on the mount, the feeding of the 5,000 and the feeding of the 4,000 we get workers from apostles and 2 co 6:1 nope TV is never mentioned but something in Revelation may be TV like, not that it forbids it though nice try though
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 22:38:55 GMT -5
we get it you can corrupt scripture at will, hopefully no one will fall for it... Not my words.I would have said if they were. reciting someone elses corruption of scripture makes it your own...
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:00:41 GMT -5
Not my words.I would have said if they were. reciting someone elses corruption of scripture makes it your own... I hope you remind nathan of that @wally !
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 23:02:06 GMT -5
*** Chuck, you need to ask God to give you the Spirit of discernment and understanding the reality of Hell/Hades and Gehenna/Lake of fire. You are so confuse and have things all mixed up. You get your spiritual hell/hades and reality of hades/Gahenna all mixed up. Hades/Gehenna is not a thing, why would you say it is. Its Hades the greek mythology underworld and Gehenna the town rubbish dump. It goes like this. Sheol translated to Hell Hades translated to Hell Tartarus translated to Hell Gehenna translated to Hell When will you understand the word Hell was not a thing, 4 things as 1 was never considered or even a thing like your western mind read it literally. You start at Hell(after Christ)and go back. You start with 1 and apply it to 4 and then call me confused....... You need to stop reading, believing all the junk false doctrine (JW and whoever) websites out there they SCREWED up your minds, thinking, the made you to become a non-exclusive 2x2. Once saved always saved, Predestination... believing all religions, 40,000 plus denominations, preachers, believers as long they believe in God go to heaven.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:06:33 GMT -5
Hades/Gehenna is not a thing, why would you say it is. Its Hades the greek mythology underworld and Gehenna the town rubbish dump. It goes like this. Sheol translated to Hell Hades translated to Hell Tartarus translated to Hell Gehenna translated to Hell When will you understand the word Hell was not a thing, 4 things as 1 was never considered or even a thing like your western mind read it literally. You start at Hell(after Christ)and go back. You start with 1 and apply it to 4 and then call me confused....... You need to stop reading, believing all the junk false doctrine (JW and whoever) websites out there they SCREWED up your minds, thinking, the made you to become a non-exclusive 2x2.... believing all religions, churches, believers lead to heaven.
OMG.....coming from you nathan !!! This has to be the post of the week for the biggest "hypocrite" !
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 23:10:13 GMT -5
You need to stop reading, believing all the junk false doctrine (JW and whoever) websites out there they SCREWED up your minds, thinking, the made you to become a non-exclusive 2x2. Once saved always saved, Predestination... believing all religions, 40,000 plus denominations, preachers, believers as long they believe in God go to heaven.
OMG.....coming from you nathan !!! This has to be the post of the week for the biggest "hypocrite" ! That is the truth, I don't like Chuck does with his non-exclusive 2x2 thinking mine makes a lot of sense = One TRUE and WAY of Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:12:26 GMT -5
OMG.....coming from you nathan !!! This has to be the post of the week for the biggest "hypocrite" ! That is the truth, I don't like Chuck does. mine makes a lot of sense and his. If this post is any indication of you making sense nathan you have proved my point !!! What the hell are you talking about !!
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:13:38 GMT -5
OMG.....coming from you nathan !!! This has to be the post of the week for the biggest "hypocrite" ! That is the truth, I don't like Chuck does with his non-exclusive 2x2 thinker mine makes a lot of sense = One TRUE and WAY of Jesus. Still doesn't make any sense nathan !
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 23:15:11 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts There is no such place as a fiery torment that lasts forever for wicked people. That was a construction on scriptures that actually speak of the Adamic death, the second death and complete destruction. 'Sheol' is the Hebrew word for the common grave of mankind, that is, the penalty of death passed on to all mankind by the first man Adam because of his disobedience to God's first law. See Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3:19. If Adam had not sinned, his progeny would have filled the earth and lived forever - which was YHWH's original purpose in creating mankind on the earth. See Psalm 37:9-11 It also means 'pit', such as a hole in the ground. Jesus was willing to take the penalty of death upon himself, so that people who believe in him and follow his instructions might gain back the everlasting life that Adam had lost for all mankind. Moreover when on earth he picked out the ones who would be 'priests and kings' in the heavenly government; those footstep followers who had been 'bought from the earth' (Revelation chapters 7 and 14 and 2Timothy 2:12) Gehenna, which some people associate with a place of fiery torment for the wicked, was a rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. It is Greek for 'the valley of Hinnom'. It was made into a rubbish dump because it was the place where the Jews sacrificed their children to Molech in fire. Dead animals and criminals were thrown into Gehenna as well as rubbish. Sulphur kept the rubbish fire burning as a sanitary measure. So Gehenna became the word to mean complete destruction. Of course, good people who died were buried in the 'memorial tombs', not the valley of Hinnom. 'Hades' just means the underworld. That is, where people are buried when they die. Greek myths have nothing to do with bible truth. Hades was the only word available to describe the grave to Greek speaking people. The 'lake of fire' was another symbol of complete destruction in Jesus' prophecy at Revelation 20:14, You will notice that 'Death and Hades' were hurled into the lake of fire. These are not people. It means that people will no longer die the Adamic death. See Revelation 21. The state of death is described at Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 "...a live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all. Neither do they any more have wages because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished...." Lazarus died the Adamic death. Jesus described the dead Lazarus as "sleeping" -John 11:11 Which website or group you got it from? You better cite your source, Chuck or some on here will say you plagiarized their work as your own writing.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 23:17:29 GMT -5
That is the truth, I don't like Chuck does with his non-exclusive 2x2 thinking mine makes a lot of sense = One TRUE and WAY of Jesus. Still doesn't make any sense nathan ! Too bad, you will figure it out, you always do.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:20:02 GMT -5
Still doesn't make any sense nathan ! Too bad, you will figure it out, you always do.Thanks for proving my point nathan !!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 23:22:24 GMT -5
Ok so if you want to read it literally at face value in 21st century wally understanding. Christ never mentioned, "Missions", "Meetings", "Conventions", "Workers", "TV", and the list goes on and on and on....... of all this dreamt up dribble that Christ never uttered a literal word about. Who's doctrine are you following wally because Christ never said it..... he never uttered the word pedophile either...but we can safely make all sorts of conclusions over that... we get missions from when he sent out the 70 we get meetings from acts 2 and where ever it mentions "church in the home/house" and "assembling" we get conventions from the sermon on the mount, the feeding of the 5,000 and the feeding of the 4,000 we get workers from apostles and 2 co 6:1 nope TV is never mentioned but something in Revelation may be TV like, not that it forbids it though nice try though Just amazing what a bit of creativity can do.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 5, 2021 23:25:17 GMT -5
he never uttered the word pedophile either...but we can safely make all sorts of conclusions over that... we get missions from when he sent out the 70 we get meetings from acts 2 and where ever it mentions "church in the home/house" and "assembling" we get conventions from the sermon on the mount, the feeding of the 5,000 and the feeding of the 4,000 we get workers from apostles and 2 co 6:1 nope TV is never mentioned but something in Revelation may be TV like, not that it forbids it though nice try though Just amazing what a bit of creativity can do. I was thinking the same thing @redback !
|
|