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Post by nathan on Jan 4, 2021 13:49:15 GMT -5
More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. *** In the book of Revelation God and Christ focus more in heaven abode for the believers than hell, the Lake of fire for unbelievers.
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Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 15:59:34 GMT -5
From recent posts on this thread it would seem that only Wally and Nathan get their instructions from God. You can't trust those Workers. Wally and Nathan must be the only ones who know God's Phone number. 1-240-776-2323 I think we all must appreciate that Nathan was a worker. Not only that but he spent some time on Guam. Therefore Nathan is advantaged over those workers (most of them) who have never been to Guam. It appears that Wally has never been a worker, his several applications being declined or rejected for some reason or another. Carrying a gun? Also it appears he has never been to Guam. Therefore in the pecking order Nathan is way higher than Wally, but that does not stop a Senior - Junior relationship from developing. Imagine the transformation if both submitted themselves to the guidance of Virgs? Now that would blow this board apart!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 16:10:18 GMT -5
They probably both need to go to Bible College then they would be real experts.
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Post by speak on Jan 4, 2021 16:13:43 GMT -5
From recent posts on this thread it would seem that only Wally and Nathan get their instructions from God. You can't trust those Workers. Wally and Nathan must be the only ones who know God's Phone number. 1-240-776-2323 I think we all must appreciate that Nathan was a worker. Not only that but he spent some time on Guam. Therefore Nathan is advantaged over those workers (most of them) who have never been to Guam. It appears that Wally has never been a worker, his several applications being declined or rejected for some reason or another. Carrying a gun? Also it appears he has never been to Guam. Therefore in the pecking order Nathan is way higher than Wally, but that does not stop a Senior - Junior relationship from developing. Imagine the transformation if both submitted themselves to the guidance of Virgs? Now that would blow this board apart!
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Post by speak on Jan 4, 2021 16:15:24 GMT -5
They probably both need to go to Bible College then they would be real experts. They call it "the wise and prudent"
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Post by Pragmatic on Jan 4, 2021 16:16:44 GMT -5
To be fair, a lot of the “rules” about things like TV, was that because they didn’t really understand it, they feared it, and feared they would lose control. Just like the Comte in the movie “Chocolat”. Another factor also comes into play, and I call it the Sheep factor, because of the nature of the “following blindly”. Imagine, a worker one day standing up and saying, “We encourage folks to not wear black jerseys, because it is the mark of The World”. Some would go, “What a load of Tosh”, and ignore it. Many would not think for themselves and decide the worker was God’s anointed, and must know best, and it is a message from on high, and discard their black jerseys. Others would think, this is a bit strange, but in order to not offend their brethren who are no longer wearing black jerseys, they also would not. Some of those in the first category would feel alienated and prefer to fit in to avoid strife. Only a few Mavericks would remain, and they would not be given positions of privilege, or meetings, because they are seen to “not have it”. And that folks is how you get religion, that is the antithesis of what Jesus preached. If you reject rule based religion and following blindly then why do you blindly follow a book that was produced by an extremely rule based religion which rejected personal interpretation of scripture? Surely you are just moving the line of blind adherence to a point whereby you are above it leaving the sincere and obedient 2x2 adherent below it. Matt10 I don't, which is probably why some call me an iconoclast
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 16:20:44 GMT -5
Wisdom is knowledge combined with the practical experience necessary to use it effectively at the right time or in the right situation. Prudence is the ability to restrain oneself to act in accordance with knowledge and wisdom. Without accurate knowledge and sound wisdom, prudence is of little value.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 4, 2021 16:37:28 GMT -5
I call those people hypocrites. They are probably afraid of elders/workers who lord it over them. Here , screens of all stripes and pixels are allowed , BUT the official screen labeled, TV , still requires it to be hidden , out of sight or there will be various negative consequences . Makes for some “funny” situations with “pink panther “ scenes . One was , a carpenter , who is an ex 2x2 , and knows the rules , was contracting a house for some friends , and they requested a hidden sliding door system to be built , to put their TV . Was quite strange , and he knew the reason , but He never let on .lol. Alvin You are kidding, -surely ?
My children use to jokingly surmise that the elder of our meeting kept their TV on a chain in their fire place where they could lower it up & down as they wanted!
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Post by Annan on Jan 4, 2021 17:42:21 GMT -5
Here , screens of all stripes and pixels are allowed , BUT the official screen labeled, TV , still requires it to be hidden , out of sight or there will be various negative consequences . Makes for some “funny” situations with “pink panther “ scenes . One was , a carpenter , who is an ex 2x2 , and knows the rules , was contracting a house for some friends , and they requested a hidden sliding door system to be built , to put their TV . Was quite strange , and he knew the reason , but He never let on .lol. Alvin You are kidding, -surely ?
My children use to jokingly surmise that the elder of our meeting kept their TV on a chain in their fire place where they could lower it up & down as they wanted! Hahaha... Our TV was in a cabinet with doors. Looked just like a night stand and was kept in the bedroom my sister and I shared. I can only assume it was because the workers were given my parents' bedroom when they stayed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 17:47:20 GMT -5
They probably both need to go to Bible College then they would be real experts. the Holy Spirit is the only master/school teacher you need and a good dictionary...i am most sure though the pharisees and sadducees and scribes of the time if they were still alive would agree that one needs a "bible college" to understand scripture...
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Post by Gene on Jan 4, 2021 17:59:34 GMT -5
They probably both need to go to Bible College then they would be real experts. the Holy Spirit is the only master/school teacher you need and a good dictionary...i am most sure though the pharisees and sadducees and scribes of the time if they were still alive would agree that one needs a "bible college" to understand scripture... That doesn't even make sense. If the Holy Spirit is sufficiently equipped to provide the devout with the correct interpretation of the words in the bible, surely the Holy Spirit is able to provide the simple definition of those same words. Maybe your faith just isn't strong enough.
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Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 18:06:08 GMT -5
the Holy Spirit is the only master/school teacher you need and a good dictionary...i am most sure though the pharisees and sadducees and scribes of the time if they were still alive would agree that one needs a "bible college" to understand scripture... That doesn't even make sense. If the Holy Spirit is sufficiently equipped to provide the devout with the correct interpretation of the words in the bible, surely the Holy Spirit is able to provide the simple definition of those same words. Maybe your faith just isn't strong enough. Gene.....you're 'questioning!'
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 18:13:15 GMT -5
the Holy Spirit is the only master/school teacher you need and a good dictionary...i am most sure though the pharisees and sadducees and scribes of the time if they were still alive would agree that one needs a "bible college" to understand scripture... That doesn't even make sense. If the Holy Spirit is sufficiently equipped to provide the devout with the correct interpretation of the words in the bible, surely the Holy Spirit is able to provide the simple definition of those same words. Maybe your faith just isn't strong enough. i guess sarcasm and an attempt at humor don't translate too well through text...
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Post by Gene on Jan 4, 2021 18:19:51 GMT -5
That doesn't even make sense. If the Holy Spirit is sufficiently equipped to provide the devout with the correct interpretation of the words in the bible, surely the Holy Spirit is able to provide the simple definition of those same words. Maybe your faith just isn't strong enough. i guess sarcasm and an attempt at humor don't translate too well through text... Right -- I totally missed that. Was the "and a good dictionary" the sarcasm part?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 18:36:17 GMT -5
i guess sarcasm and an attempt at humor don't translate too well through text... Right -- I totally missed that. Was the "and a good dictionary" the sarcasm part? yes...especially since we have grammar/spelling wars on here...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 19:16:36 GMT -5
I've only noticed one person who seems to worry about grammar/spelling. I would hardly call it a War, not worth fighting about.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 19:25:10 GMT -5
I've only noticed one person who seems to worry about grammar/spelling. I would hardly call it a War, not worth fighting about. maybe you need glasses?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 20:08:24 GMT -5
I have got glasses, they are 20 years old. Not worth getting new ones, may not get my monies worth. The most common causes of vision loss among the elderly are age-related macular degeneration, glaucoma, cataract and diabetic retinopathy. Age-related macular degeneration is characterized by the loss of central vision. New glasses won't fix that.
It would be worse to lose the sense of taste and smell. My Kefir and Guinness would not be as enjoyable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 21:05:51 GMT -5
I have got glasses, they are 20 years old. Not worth getting new ones, may not get my monies worth. The most common causes of vision loss among the elderly are age-related macular degeneration, glaucoma, cataract and diabetic retinopathy. Age-related macular degeneration is characterized by the loss of central vision. New glasses won't fix that. It would be worse to lose the sense of taste and smell. My Kefir and Guinness would not be as enjoyable. hmmm then it must be your powers of observation are rather selective...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 4, 2021 21:56:10 GMT -5
You are kidding, -surely ?
My children use to jokingly surmise that the elder of our meeting kept their TV on a chain in their fire place where they could lower it up & down as they wanted! Not kidding . I Admit , that was a number of years ago now. Happened in Winnipeg , Manitoba . Had a family member living in Europe , and at the meeting they went to , the tv was behind folding doors , and people sat right in front of them during meeting in that home . For sure some knew about it , msybe all , I dunno . Out of sight anyhow Lots of “fun” An ex professing couple we know well , figured the workers were checking around their house when they were away all day for work , so she tied a light string , to the door boobytrap and sure enough , there was a “ break and entry “ No tv in the house anyhow and nothing was said to the workers , but confirmed their suspicion . Good old days , when workers decided who goes to heaven . Cheers Alvin Edit - I’d be a hypocrite if I pretended I didn’t participate in the same type of stuff (well , ok I’m a hypocrite ,anyhow ) but I recall helping , along with some other friends , an older couple, move from their home ( hmm, grammar prob wrong too - blame crazy low German mother tongue ) They had only professed a short while and he had been talked to about the tv should go “ missing “ , but he was “unwilling “ yet to release that devilish thing . So , the lot of us helping move stuff plenty of it seemed like , and we ALL were avoiding moving that Beast that sat in the living room corner and it became more and MORE painstakingly obvious , and finally it was about all that was left to move . I can’t remember exactly sequence of events , but seems like the poor old fella attempted a bit by himself ( no flat screen TV either ) and we pitched in and no big deal . I guess maybe we were all secretly hoping he’d just say , leave it there and the “ victory “ be won . Good memories of them They came to the meeting in our home Alvin HAHA -- I tried that trick too. Revealing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 23:06:31 GMT -5
I have got glasses, they are 20 years old. Not worth getting new ones, may not get my monies worth. The most common causes of vision loss among the elderly are age-related macular degeneration, glaucoma, cataract and diabetic retinopathy. Age-related macular degeneration is characterized by the loss of central vision. New glasses won't fix that. It would be worse to lose the sense of taste and smell. My Kefir and Guinness would not be as enjoyable. hmmm then it must be your powers of observation are rather selective... Some people do have selective observation. They dwell on the same thing all the time and don't get out and about to learn from other people. It is better to broaden your knowledge by being active in as many things as you can. Observation is a very important part of Science. It lets us see the results of an experiment, even if they are not the results we expect. It lets us see unexpected things around us that might stimulate our curiosity, leading to new experiments. Even more important than observation is accurate observation.
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Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 0:32:24 GMT -5
Again a peronsal option(which is fine) with no asnwer to why you don't think, the language suggests its higly unlikely to be eternal(physically for ever) in a westerners understanding, the apocalyptic literature in Revelation was not a future reality like you are suggesting but present one, for example the imagery around "the seven stars in my right hand", go and look at the coin depicting this exact thing, clearly metaphorical or a repsonse to a actual present reality of Domitians son. Your absurd claim is as credible as your non existent language rebuttal. A quick study of Domitian would tell you a lot of of the imagery in Revelation is a description of current events of the Domitian reign which again makes your claim that its absurd to read it any other way grossly ignorant and the accusation of being arrogant as founded as the the people putting Galileo in hell for suggesting that maybe it's not as it seems. More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: but the original language suggests it doesn't mean eternal like out western minds think. Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: why when the language suggests otherwise Person 1: you are arrogant, you must read it this way, you cant read it any other way! Person 2: but the original language suggests if we read it that way we are being ignorant of the original intent of the author Person 1: you must read it this way, if you read it this way they are like the Nazis. Person 2: but its quite clear by some coins its describing a present reality Person 1: your acting superior, you must read it this way! you must look at this site 2x2's use, it say's you must read it this way so you must read it this way. Person 2: so are you telling me that language means nothing Person 1: your absurd if you dont read it this way person 2: people with that attitude put Galileo in hell person 1: you must read it this way
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Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 0:48:47 GMT -5
More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: but the original language suggests it doesn't mean eternal like out western minds think. Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: why when the language suggests otherwise Person 1: you are arrogant, you must read it this way, you cant read it any other way! Person 2: but the original language suggests if we read it that way we are being ignorant of the original intent of the author Person 1: you must read it this way, if you read it this way they are like the Nazis. Person 2: but its quite clear by some coins its describing a present reality Person 1: your acting superior, you must read it this way! you must look at this site 2x2's use, it say's you must read it this way so you must read it this way. Person 2: so are you telling me that language means nothing Person 1: your absurd if you dont read it this way person 2: people with that attitude put Galileo in hell person 1: you must read it this way You and your cronies who believe there is no HELL/Lake of Fire need to read Openingact34 article... Right on the money about you a non-exclusive 2x2, and the Christians no-Hell-believers are out there. Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?
Answer: In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there; everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it: The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come. Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).
A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.
Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.
Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out. Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.
If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.” www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.html
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Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 1:40:45 GMT -5
Again a peronsal option(which is fine) with no asnwer to why you don't think, the language suggests its higly unlikely to be eternal(physically for ever) in a westerners understanding, the apocalyptic literature in Revelation was not a future reality like you are suggesting but present one, for example the imagery around "the seven stars in my right hand", go and look at the coin depicting this exact thing, clearly metaphorical or a repsonse to a actual present reality of Domitians son. Your absurd claim is as credible as your non existent language rebuttal. A quick study of Domitian would tell you a lot of of the imagery in Revelation is a description of current events of the Domitian reign which again makes your claim that its absurd to read it any other way grossly ignorant and the accusation of being arrogant as founded as the the people putting Galileo in hell for suggesting that maybe it's not as it seems. More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 2:01:38 GMT -5
More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell. Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history. luke 16....read it and weep...
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Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 2:27:13 GMT -5
Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: but the original language suggests it doesn't mean eternal like out western minds think. Person 1: you must read it this way! Person 2: why when the language suggests otherwise Person 1: you are arrogant, you must read it this way, you cant read it any other way! Person 2: but the original language suggests if we read it that way we are being ignorant of the original intent of the author Person 1: you must read it this way, if you read it this way they are like the Nazis. Person 2: but its quite clear by some coins its describing a present reality Person 1: your acting superior, you must read it this way! you must look at this site 2x2's use, it say's you must read it this way so you must read it this way. Person 2: so are you telling me that language means nothing Person 1: your absurd if you dont read it this way person 2: people with that attitude put Galileo in hell person 1: you must read it this way You and your cronies who believe there is no HELL/Lake of Fire need to read Openingact34 article... Right on the money about you a non-exclusive 2x2, and the Christians no-Hell-believers are out there. Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?
Answer: In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there; everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it: The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come. Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).
A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.
Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.
Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out. Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.
If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.” www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.html Start at the language Nathan. All of your arguments ignore it. www.harvestherald.com/challenge.htm
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Post by nathan on Jan 5, 2021 2:53:59 GMT -5
Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history. luke 16....read it and weep... Chuck, you and BobW. need to READ your Bible more often and read Luke chapter 16. The Rich man and Lazarus again. Jesus told us about Hell/Hades the Realm of the dead and Paradise/heaven.
Please, don't tell us Christ/God Jesus didn't know what he was talking about Hell/Hades and heaven! He created both heaven for the believers and hell/Lake of fire for Satan, the fallen angels and the unbelievers to stay there forever.
Jude 6-7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, God hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
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Post by chuck on Jan 5, 2021 3:50:24 GMT -5
Christ didn't talk about Hell once. It was invented after he was crucified. He did often explain how one's life could be likened to Gehenna the rubbish dump with a a lot of bad history. luke 16....read it and weep... Hades you mean..... Jesus didn't know your combined mutated version of a made up Hell (Sheol, Hades,Tartarus, Gehenna) existed. Wally prehaps some of the context of Luke 16, enjoy. www.harvestherald.com/the-rich-man-and-lazarus.html
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