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Post by mountain on Jan 25, 2021 3:36:15 GMT -5
As 'far as I see' it, based upon past confessions, you are a rice eater. It's 'sad you see,' but that's the way it is. However, people in general are not frightened by a non-existence, or a resurrection followed by extinction. In fact these 'prospects' are attractive to humans governed by their own self will. It's comforting to believe in nothing after death. No accountability. People fear death itself. They want to avoid that. That's why they don't think about it. The prospect or warning about a non-existent eternal life did NOT cause the Pharisees to try and flee from the wrath to come. I'm guam with Nathan on this one. I believe a naughty place exists! History say's the naughty place didn't exist like we have been led to believe till after Christ. Christ was a Jewish Rabbai with no knowledge of the hell Nathan talks of. Christ's teachings and knowledge come from OT, long long before Nathans version of Hell. You are drawing a very very long bow trying to link a hell invented after Christ with a concept that was non existent at the time of Christ. It seems trying to fathom that the possibility of a concept was introduced after Christ is causing brain malfunction on many levels. This sort of behaviour is why religions nutjobs thought they could send Galileo to hell. And even more amusing is then they had to get him out of hell when they finally admitted their error. I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2021 4:09:11 GMT -5
History say's the naughty place didn't exist like we have been led to believe till after Christ. Christ was a Jewish Rabbai with no knowledge of the hell Nathan talks of. Christ's teachings and knowledge come from OT, long long before Nathans version of Hell. You are drawing a very very long bow trying to link a hell invented after Christ with a concept that was non existent at the time of Christ. It seems trying to fathom that the possibility of a concept was introduced after Christ is causing brain malfunction on many levels. This sort of behaviour is why religions nutjobs thought they could send Galileo to hell. And even more amusing is then they had to get him out of hell when they finally admitted their error. I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam.
Yep.
Mankind hates to believe that there will actually come a time when he will simply be no more at all, -end of sentence. Period.
He would rather create an alternate narrative even though that gives him nearly as much anxiety as the fear of oblivion!
You suppose that it is because he feels that he may be able to have at least a little control over the problem. I wonder.
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Post by mountain on Jan 25, 2021 4:11:26 GMT -5
I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam.
Yep.
Mankind hates to believe that there will actually come a time when he will simply be no more at all, -end of sentence. Period.
He would rather create an alternate narrative even though that gives him nearly as much anxiety as the fear of oblivion!
You suppose that it is because he feels that he may be able to have at least a little control over the problem. I wonder.This is an opinion and may be very far from actual fact. The Pharisees and Sadducees most certainly accepted the 'Wrath of God' preaching as bowel cleansing fact. However, the message was intended for the heart, not for generating human waste!
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Post by chuck on Jan 25, 2021 4:45:35 GMT -5
History say's the naughty place didn't exist like we have been led to believe till after Christ. Christ was a Jewish Rabbai with no knowledge of the hell Nathan talks of. Christ's teachings and knowledge come from OT, long long before Nathans version of Hell. You are drawing a very very long bow trying to link a hell invented after Christ with a concept that was non existent at the time of Christ. It seems trying to fathom that the possibility of a concept was introduced after Christ is causing brain malfunction on many levels. This sort of behaviour is why religions nutjobs thought they could send Galileo to hell. And even more amusing is then they had to get him out of hell when they finally admitted their error. I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam. "It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam." Basically you just said, I choose to Cling to God because option B sux. I luv God because option B sux. I cling to option A because option B sux. This is why we have people claiming to be Christian being nasty. They cling nastily to option A because option B sux. But when we get to Heaven we'll be as nice as pie. News flash, why do Christians have to wait to get to Heaven before they're nice?. Not once did you suggest I Choose to cling to God because it's the right way, or If their was no Heaven I'd choose option A anyway because that the best way to live life. It's just option A is the best escape route for me to live for ever and ever. If I'm not mistaken that kinda sounds like selfishness and that one may have missed the whole point of the good news and salvation. Option A is priceless because you need the Character of Christ in your life to save you from yourself. Here, now, today. Religion has sold you the Idea that salvation is something someday experienced somewhere else and if you dont conform you'll burn. Sounds like it worked, you just want option A because option B sux. As for those who have no love for God, if your concept of God is restrained to a escape route, I can see why you think that. I would suggest one doesn't love God, but finds God in the act of love itself, and that happens in lots of people, including the ones you say have no love for God, maybe that's just no love for your concept of God the escape route.
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Post by chuck on Jan 25, 2021 4:46:31 GMT -5
I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam.
Yep.
Mankind hates to believe that there will actually come a time when he will simply be no more at all, -end of sentence. Period.
He would rather create an alternate narrative even though that gives him nearly as much anxiety as the fear of oblivion!
You suppose that it is because he feels that he may be able to have at least a little control over the problem. I wonder.In a nutshell its selfishness. I would think it would be much more peaceful to find heaven now, if it so happens there is something like it after death the transition will just happen. But why wait to find out?.
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Post by chuck on Jan 25, 2021 4:58:29 GMT -5
Yep.
Mankind hates to believe that there will actually come a time when he will simply be no more at all, -end of sentence. Period.
He would rather create an alternate narrative even though that gives him nearly as much anxiety as the fear of oblivion!
You suppose that it is because he feels that he may be able to have at least a little control over the problem. I wonder.This is an opinion and may be very far from actual fact. The Pharisees and Sadducees most certainly accepted the 'Wrath of God' preaching as bowel cleansing fact. However, the message was intended for the heart, not for generating human waste! The bowel was the heart.
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Post by chuck on Jan 25, 2021 6:06:38 GMT -5
History(not Fixit or Chuck) say's your Hell came after Christ. Your doctrine is borrowed from other religions, and then 2x2ism proceeds to burn anyone who disagrees. The best you can do is argue that the doctrine changed within 100 years or so after Jesus. And it's not that strong of an argument. History says that 1900 years of Christians have believed in the same Hell as Wally and Nathan. That is 1900 years of billions of Christians reading, praying, and receiving conviction from the Holy Spirit. An unfathomable magnitude of opportunity for the living God to correct the belief if it were wrong. Most believers care more about how God is working in the hearts of themselves and their religious leaders than debating history. And what has been the fruits of God's work in their hearts over nearly two thousand years? Only more conviction that eternal torture in hell awaits sinners. I didn't know a date made a difference. If you ignore the Ancient Hebrew language and concepts It would not matter if it was the day after Christ or last year. It's still ignoring those things. Add money and control into the mix and its pretty easy to ignore lots of things. Couple that with the ever increasing and frightening idea of a place that will burn you literally for ever and a way out if you pay enough or perform enough, you have a instant following. I guess thats why they stuck with the original words and didn't add one word combining 4 different things into one so it wasn't confusing.......
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 25, 2021 8:31:14 GMT -5
The best you can do is argue that the doctrine changed within 100 years or so after Jesus. And it's not that strong of an argument. History says that 1900 years of Christians have believed in the same Hell as Wally and Nathan. That is 1900 years of billions of Christians reading, praying, and receiving conviction from the Holy Spirit. An unfathomable magnitude of opportunity for the living God to correct the belief if it were wrong. Most believers care more about how God is working in the hearts of themselves and their religious leaders than debating history. And what has been the fruits of God's work in their hearts over nearly two thousand years? Only more conviction that eternal torture in hell awaits sinners. I didn't know a date made a difference. If you ignore the Ancient Hebrew language and concepts It would not matter if it was the day after Christ or last year. It's still ignoring those things. Add money and control into the mix and its pretty easy to ignore lots of things. Couple that with the ever increasing and frightening idea of a place that will burn you literally for ever and a way out if you pay enough or perform enough, you have a instant following. I guess thats why they stuck with the original words and didn't add one word combining 4 different things into one so it wasn't confusing....... "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25 The date is relevant because if the belief can be shown to be present shortly after the time of Jesus, it is more likely part of his teaching that is simply unrecorded in the Bible Gospels, but captured in other Scriptures like the Apocalpse of Peter. If it arose a thousand years later, it is less likely to be a teaching of Jesus. You should know this as you constantly try to portray the doctrine of hell as arising with Dante and ignoring the early Christian teachings of eternal torture
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Post by mountain on Jan 25, 2021 14:06:18 GMT -5
I have as much idea (or less) about hell as I do about heaven. What I do know is that the fear of death followed by non-existence, or being resurrected for another death (eradication), is insufficient to turn me from my own will to seeking God's will. These concepts play into the hands of human nature and self will. No doubt about it. I see it nearly every day. Increasingly people are saying...'When yer deid, yer deid. That's the end of it.' That's exactly what you are saying for those who have no love for God. Neither of these concepts, at the time of John the Baptist, caused unrepentant Pharisees and Sadducees to fill their pants and rush headlong to the Jordan River to be baptised (yes they badly needed a wash!). It was the Wrath of God that was the key issue. That's what they were scared of. And that my dear friend is a lot worse than the watered down alternatives I have referred to beforehand. It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam. "It is the fear of eternal damnation that causes me to cleave to God. It is this which causes me to love the Gospel, God's escape route, which is that priceless treasure of salvation. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This is what was preached in the arboreal shade at Guam." Basically you just said, I choose to Cling to God because option B sux. I luv God because option B sux. I cling to option A because option B sux. This is why we have people claiming to be Christian being nasty. They cling nastily to option A because option B sux. But when we get to Heaven we'll be as nice as pie. News flash, why do Christians have to wait to get to Heaven before they're nice?. Not once did you suggest I Choose to cling to God because it's the right way, or If their was no Heaven I'd choose option A anyway because that the best way to live life. It's just option A is the best escape route for me to live for ever and ever. If I'm not mistaken that kinda sounds like selfishness and that one may have missed the whole point of the good news and salvation. Option A is priceless because you need the Character of Christ in your life to save you from yourself. Here, now, today. Religion has sold you the Idea that salvation is something someday experienced somewhere else and if you dont conform you'll burn. Sounds like it worked, you just want option A because option B sux. As for those who have no love for God, if your concept of God is restrained to a escape route, I can see why you think that. I would suggest one doesn't love God, but finds God in the act of love itself, and that happens in lots of people, including the ones you say have no love for God, maybe that's just no love for your concept of God the escape route. Can I ask a serious question? Did you answer truthfully when you were asked about rice consumption? A lot of presumption above, but little actual fact.
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Post by mountain on Jan 25, 2021 14:09:58 GMT -5
This is an opinion and may be very far from actual fact. The Pharisees and Sadducees most certainly accepted the 'Wrath of God' preaching as bowel cleansing fact. However, the message was intended for the heart, not for generating human waste! The bowel was the heart. Doth not the dromedary void its urine where'er it may? Doth not the artichoke grow where it has been sown?
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Post by chuck on Jan 25, 2021 15:52:44 GMT -5
I didn't know a date made a difference. If you ignore the Ancient Hebrew language and concepts It would not matter if it was the day after Christ or last year. It's still ignoring those things. Add money and control into the mix and its pretty easy to ignore lots of things. Couple that with the ever increasing and frightening idea of a place that will burn you literally for ever and a way out if you pay enough or perform enough, you have a instant following. I guess thats why they stuck with the original words and didn't add one word combining 4 different things into one so it wasn't confusing....... "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25 The date is relevant because if the belief can be shown to be present shortly after the time of Jesus, it is more likely part of his teaching that is simply unrecorded in the Bible Gospels, but captured in other Scriptures like the Apocalpse of Peter. If it arose a thousand years later, it is less likely to be a teaching of Jesus. You should know this as you constantly try to portray the doctrine of hell as arising with Dante and ignoring the early Christian teachings of eternal torture You ignore that like the word hell, Eternal was not a for ever and ever thing like your western mind thinks. Therefore Eternal Torment is also not like your western mind thinks. I wonder which hell Peter used? Ignoring the language and concepts of the Hebrew people and thinking with a westerners mind is the foundation to your arguments. Your foundation is corrupt to begin with, you ignore that whilst building upon it and tell me I have no argument. Like I said to these other boys, Jonah was in the belly of hell forever. How long was forever? and why was it hell? were was the fire?, how did he escape Eternal torment?. Is Eternal torment only 3 days a and at the end of it your still alive?. They of course couldn't articulate a coherent repsonse, wally was stuck on repeat......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 15:54:30 GMT -5
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25 The date is relevant because if the belief can be shown to be present shortly after the time of Jesus, it is more likely part of his teaching that is simply unrecorded in the Bible Gospels, but captured in other Scriptures like the Apocalpse of Peter. If it arose a thousand years later, it is less likely to be a teaching of Jesus. You should know this as you constantly try to portray the doctrine of hell as arising with Dante and ignoring the early Christian teachings of eternal torture You ignore that like the word hell, Eternal was not a for ever and ever thing like your western mind thinks. Therefore Eternal Torment is also not like your western mind thinks. I wonder which hell Peter used? Ignoring the language and concepts of the Hebrew people and thinking with a westerners mind is the foundation to your arguments. Your foundation is corrupt to begin with, you ignore that whilst building upon it and tell me I have no argument. Like I said to these other boys, Jonah was in the belly of hell forever. How long was forever? and why was it hell? were was the fire?, how did he escape Eternal torment?. Is Eternal torment only 3 days a and at the end of it your still alive?. They of course couldn't articulate a coherent repsonse, wally was stuck on repeat...... Luke 16...
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Post by nathan on Jan 25, 2021 16:56:42 GMT -5
You ignore that like the word hell, Eternal was not a for ever and ever thing like your western mind thinks. Therefore Eternal Torment is also not like your western mind thinks. I wonder which hell Peter used? Ignoring the language and concepts of the Hebrew people and thinking with a westerners mind is the foundation to your arguments. Your foundation is corrupt to begin with, you ignore that whilst building upon it and tell me I have no argument. Like I said to these other boys, Jonah was in the belly of hell forever. How long was forever? and why was it hell? were was the fire?, how did he escape Eternal torment?. Is Eternal torment only 3 days a and at the end of it your still alive?. They of course couldn't articulate a coherent repsonse, wally was stuck on repeat...... Luke 16... Jonah was in the belly of a big Fish under the depth of the sea below the ground/Hell or Hades the realm of the dead. God was trying to give us a picture of Jesus life, death and his own Resrrection. After death his body stayed in the grave for 3 days and nights, but His Spirit went to Hades where all souls MUST go after death in the Old testament time. Jesus paid the ran some price on Calvary he conquered Death! And was able to set all Old Testament believers souls from Hades. The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! The sample of when Jesus returns the dead in Christ from old and New Test. Will receive their resurrection bodies first then the believers who are alive on earth receive their resurrection bodies also in a blink of an eye. A beginning of a New chapter begins! The reigning and Ruling with Christ on earth and Universe for 1000 yrs with the NEW resurrection bodies! Like Superman and woman like Adam and Eve had before the FALL, in the Image of God and in His Likeness.
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Post by Annan on Jan 25, 2021 17:42:38 GMT -5
The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! Growing up I've always wondered about that. If they walked around for a short time, did they return to the grave? Where does the scripture say they walked around for a short time?
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Post by Gene on Jan 25, 2021 19:27:26 GMT -5
Doth not the dromedary void its urine where'er it may? Doth not the artichoke grow where it has been sown? Now THAT takes me back about 15 years!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:51:48 GMT -5
The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! Growing up I've always wondered about that. If they walked around for a short time, did they return to the grave? Where does the scripture say they walked around for a short time? well it doesn't say how long exactly they were there but we can make some educated ASSumptions(that is probably an oxymoron)... Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Act_1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: so the clock was ticking when Jesus resurrected then they also resurrected out of their graves just like he did. Christ stayed for forty days then he ascended to heaven. His immediate big mission upon his death was to go to the paradise side of hell/hades/gehenna/the grave and bring the faithful good jews to heaven with him and out of captivity. so odds are since he didn't leave earth until forty days later for heaven. they probably also lingered for forty days also then ascended to heaven with him. forty days, short time or long time? depends on your perspective... also one should note there are about 34k sites on the web also with educated ASSumptions about this very subject...good luck
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 21:11:06 GMT -5
Yes you are being honest Wally, it is all about assumptions.
assumption
noun: assumption; plural assumptions;
A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.
You know what happens when you assume. You make an ass out of you and me because that's how it's spelled.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 26, 2021 0:20:22 GMT -5
Jonah was in the belly of a big Fish under the depth of the sea below the ground/Hell or Hades the realm of the dead. God was trying to give us a picture of Jesus life, death and his own Resrrection. After death his body stayed in the grave for 3 days and nights, but His Spirit went to Hades where all souls MUST go after death in the Old testament time. Jesus paid the ran some price on Calvary he conquered Death! And was able to set all Old Testament believers souls from Hades. The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! The sample of when Jesus returns the dead in Christ from old and New Test. Will receive their resurrection bodies first then the believers who are alive on earth receive their resurrection bodies also in a blink of an eye. A beginning of a New chapter begins! The reigning and Ruling with Christ on earth and Universe for 1000 yrs with the NEW resurrection bodies! Like Superman and woman like Adam and Eve had before the FALL, in the Image of God and in His Likeness. May I quote you on this?
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Post by nathan on Jan 26, 2021 0:41:30 GMT -5
Jonah was in the belly of a big Fish under the depth of the sea below the ground/Hell or Hades the realm of the dead. God was trying to give us a picture of Jesus life, death and his own Resurrection. After death his body stayed in the grave for 3 days and nights, but His Spirit went to Hades where all souls MUST go after death in the Old testament time. Jesus paid the ransome price on Calvary he conquered Death! And was able to set all Old Testament believers souls from Hades. The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! The sample of when Jesus returns the dead in Christ from old and New Test. Will receive their resurrection bodies first then the believers who are alive on earth receive their resurrection bodies also in a blink of an eye. A beginning of a New chapter begins! The reigning and Ruling with Christ on earth and Universe for 1000 yrs with the NEW resurrection bodies! Like Superman and woman like Adam and Eve had before the FALL, in the Image of God and in His Likeness. May I quote you on this? Yep, you have my blessing, BobW.
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Post by chuck on Jan 26, 2021 0:43:23 GMT -5
Jonah was in the belly of a big Fish under the depth of the sea below the ground/Hell or Hades the realm of the dead. God was trying to give us a picture of Jesus life, death and his own Resrrection. After death his body stayed in the grave for 3 days and nights, but His Spirit went to Hades where all souls MUST go after death in the Old testament time. Jesus paid the ran some price on Calvary he conquered Death! And was able to set all Old Testament believers souls from Hades. The graves were open/resurrection of the Old Test. dead believers came back alive and walked in Jerusalem for a short time as living witnesses! The sample of when Jesus returns the dead in Christ from old and New Test. Will receive their resurrection bodies first then the believers who are alive on earth receive their resurrection bodies also in a blink of an eye. A beginning of a New chapter begins! The reigning and Ruling with Christ on earth and Universe for 1000 yrs with the NEW resurrection bodies! Like Superman and woman like Adam and Eve had before the FALL, in the Image of God and in His Likeness. And funnily enough it was all present reality. Being able to understand ancient Hebrew culture and language helps a lot Nathan. You would feel like your in the belly/hell forever if you had to show grace to those you do not deem worthy. Instead you just send them to hell by telling them to separate from their partners...... Why didn't the fish or Jonah burn up? thr lake of fire consumes everything? and how come forever was only 3 days?. I reckon the tourism industry in Jerusalem would have boomed with all those extra tourist huh!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 26, 2021 0:50:47 GMT -5
Yep, you have my blessing, BobW. I won't give you credit for it, though.
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Post by nathan on Jan 26, 2021 0:53:14 GMT -5
Growing up I've always wondered about that. If they walked around for a short time, did they return to the grave? Where does the scripture say they walked around for a short time? well it doesn't say how long exactly they were there but we can make some educated ASSumptions(that is probably an oxymoron)... Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Act_1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: so the clock was ticking when Jesus resurrected then they also resurrected out of their graves just like he did. Christ stayed for forty days then he ascended to heaven. His immediate big mission upon his death was to go to the paradise side of hell/hades/gehenna/the grave and bring the faithful good jews to heaven with him and out of captivity. so odds are since he didn't leave earth until forty days later for heaven. they probably also lingered for forty days also then ascended to heaven with him. forty days, short time or long time? depends on your perspective... also one should note there are about 34k sites on the web also with educated ASSumptions about this very subject...good luck This is my understanding...... Jesus said to Mary M. Don't touch me! for I must ascend to MY Father! After this, I believe He went back to God the Father in heaven and brought all of the Old Testament believers souls with Him... Then the resurrected Jesus came back to help and explained the scriptures concerning himself was the Christ in the Old Testament prophesies to the apostles and he stayed on earth for 40 days..... Luke 24:44-49Now Jesus said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all the things that are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, “So it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” before he went back to heaven before the eyes of the apostles in Acts 1.
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Post by chuck on Jan 26, 2021 0:53:42 GMT -5
As 'far as I see' it, based upon past confessions, you are a rice eater. It's 'sad you see,' but that's the way it is. However, people in general are not frightened by a non-existence, or a resurrection followed by extinction. In fact these 'prospects' are attractive to humans governed by their own self will. It's comforting to believe in nothing after death. No accountability. People fear death itself. They want to avoid that. That's why they don't think about it. The prospect or warning about a non-existent eternal life did NOT cause the Pharisees to try and flee from the wrath to come. I'm guam with Nathan on this one. I believe a naughty place exists! Sin has to be punished or people say Why? is God allowing Satan/sinner get away freely? Doesn't he Care. Satan, fallen angels and sinners will get their days in the court of heaven.
Christ came down from heaven to set us FREE so, we don't have to face the horrible judgment day to be casted in the Lake of fire for Eternity,
Nathan you get it back to front. You say, dont sin or god(Nathan/Wally/2x2ism) will condemn you. But Christ said, neither do I condemn you, go and leave your life of sin. The women in adultery had to be punished, the exclusives said so. Nathan(god) said sin must be punished. Is that eternity, 3 days in the belly of a fish wish a piss weak fire that couldn't even burn Jonah?.
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Post by nathan on Jan 26, 2021 0:54:36 GMT -5
Yep, you have my blessing, BobW. I won't give you credit for it, though. Put my name in the quote so, people know who wrote it.
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Post by nathan on Jan 26, 2021 0:57:21 GMT -5
Sin has to be punished or people say Why? is God allowing Satan/sinner get away freely? Doesn't he Care. Satan, fallen angels and sinners will get their days in the court of heaven.
Christ came down from heaven to set us FREE so, we don't have to face the horrible judgment day to be casted in the Lake of fire for Eternity,
Nathan you get it back to front. You say, dont sin or god(Nathan/Wally/2x2ism) will condemn you. But Christ said, neither do I condemn you, go and leave your life of sin. The women in adultery had to be punished, the exclusives said so. Nathan(god) said sin must be punished. Is that eternity, 3 days in the belly of a fish wish a piss weak fire that couldn't even burn Jonah?. Your brain and understanding are ALL messed up! It's going to take months, and years to undo of all the JW, the Baptists and many other websites you had learned from for years of reading. You need a new brain, Chuck.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 26, 2021 0:58:10 GMT -5
I won't give you credit for it, though. Put my name in the quote so, people know who wrote it.I'm not going to.
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 26, 2021 1:00:09 GMT -5
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25 The date is relevant because if the belief can be shown to be present shortly after the time of Jesus, it is more likely part of his teaching that is simply unrecorded in the Bible Gospels, but captured in other Scriptures like the Apocalpse of Peter. If it arose a thousand years later, it is less likely to be a teaching of Jesus. You should know this as you constantly try to portray the doctrine of hell as arising with Dante and ignoring the early Christian teachings of eternal torture You ignore that like the word hell, Eternal was not a for ever and ever thing like your western mind thinks. Therefore Eternal Torment is also not like your western mind thinks. I wonder which hell Peter used? Ignoring the language and concepts of the Hebrew people and thinking with a westerners mind is the foundation to your arguments. Your foundation is corrupt to begin with, you ignore that whilst building upon it and tell me I have no argument. Like I said to these other boys, Jonah was in the belly of hell forever. How long was forever? and why was it hell? were was the fire?, how did he escape Eternal torment?. Is Eternal torment only 3 days a and at the end of it your still alive?. They of course couldn't articulate a coherent repsonse, wally was stuck on repeat...... So you are OK with torture as long as it is finite? Three days of brutal torture wouldn't turn you away from worshipping God apparently. What about three months? Three years? Three decades? Three millenia? Three million years? When does chuck finally turn the corner and decide that this much torture is too much? Those wicked humanists have a much easier time drawing a line in the sand as it relates to torture
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Post by chuck on Jan 26, 2021 1:07:15 GMT -5
You ignore that like the word hell, Eternal was not a for ever and ever thing like your western mind thinks. Therefore Eternal Torment is also not like your western mind thinks. I wonder which hell Peter used? Ignoring the language and concepts of the Hebrew people and thinking with a westerners mind is the foundation to your arguments. Your foundation is corrupt to begin with, you ignore that whilst building upon it and tell me I have no argument. Like I said to these other boys, Jonah was in the belly of hell forever. How long was forever? and why was it hell? were was the fire?, how did he escape Eternal torment?. Is Eternal torment only 3 days a and at the end of it your still alive?. They of course couldn't articulate a coherent repsonse, wally was stuck on repeat...... So you are OK with torture as long as it is finite? Three days of brutal torture wouldn't turn you away from worshipping God apparently. What about three months? Three years? Three decades? Three millenia? Three million years? When does chuck finally turn the corner and decide that this much torture is too much? Those wicked humanists have a much easier time drawing a line in the sand as it relates to torture Have you even bothered to look at what eternal torment would have meant to a Jewish Rabbai with Semikah with roots in 1000s of years of ancient culture and language. Or is it just easier to argue from a modern westerners concept because its a very easy emotional argument.
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