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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 12, 2020 0:32:54 GMT -5
It's my right to know what it says. I have dozens of reasons for reading things -- whether I enjoy it or not.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 12, 2020 0:51:04 GMT -5
If the hat fits, go wear it. So you just don't know, or you dont want to know, or because that's just what everyone else did..... I have been following your version of the god fantasy for awhile. Whatever insight you think you have or whatever theology you have studied which you thinks gives you an understanding of your god it still amounts to the same thing. A total waste of time on a useless invention of man.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 0:54:51 GMT -5
It's a vile and juvenile torture fantasy from a sick mind. Period. Funny way to look at the past. You realise in the future they may be kind enough to say the same about you!. To these people the Bible or Torah was the most gracious book they could refer to. What you are doing is called static appropriation with no consideration of Historical Arc. The scriptures do not present a finalised ethic. You stop were the bible stops, take zero Hebraic understanding into consideration and then refer to those trying to understand it as the level of a juvenile......... Are you trying to tell us that the terrible things that the supposed chosen people of God in the bible did to others was NOT really true, -that it represents something else entirely different?
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 1:02:09 GMT -5
It's my right to know what it says. I have dozens of reasons for reading things -- whether I enjoy it or not. You missed my point. If you want to critique a old book written to a old audience with a old culture why would you read it as if it was written to you as the intended audience today in todays culture and knowledge?.
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 1:05:03 GMT -5
So you just don't know, or you dont want to know, or because that's just what everyone else did..... I have been following your version of the god fantasy for awhile. Whatever insight you think you have or whatever theology you have studied which you thinks gives you an understanding of your god it still amounts to the same thing. A total waste of time on a useless invention of man. It was a pretty honest question.
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Post by jetmech on Oct 12, 2020 1:13:37 GMT -5
Some preacher, I think it was Billy Graham, said every chosen man of GOD mentioned in the Bible eventually wronged GOD.
Noah, Moses, JOB, Even Solomon the wisest man who ever lived wronged GOD.
I'm wondering of Paul ever wronged GOD? I know he did while his name was Saul; but, how about after his name was changed to Paul ... did he eventually wrong GOD?
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 1:13:44 GMT -5
Funny way to look at the past. You realise in the future they may be kind enough to say the same about you!. To these people the Bible or Torah was the most gracious book they could refer to. What you are doing is called static appropriation with no consideration of Historical Arc. The scriptures do not present a finalised ethic. You stop were the bible stops, take zero Hebraic understanding into consideration and then refer to those trying to understand it as the level of a juvenile......... Are you trying to tell us that the terrible things that the supposed chosen people of God in the bible did to others was NOT really true, -that it represents something else entirely different?
. Did they drive society forwards or backwards?. Are we better off today because of actions back then or not?. Is the world better today becuase of this law or not?. “Suppose you go out to war against your enemies and the Lord your God hands them over to you, and you take some of them as captives.And suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you are attracted to her and want to marry her.If this happens, you may take her to your home, where she must shave her head, cut her nails,and change the clothes she was wearing when she was captured. She will stay in your home, but let her mourn for her father and mother for a full month. Then you may marry her, and you will be her husband and she will be your wife.But if you marry her and she does not please you, you must let her go free. You may not sell her or treat her as a slave, for you have humiliated her. - Deuteronomy 21:10-14 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy21:10-14&version=NLTWould you rather be a women today or in 1950? or 1850?, or 1750?. My answer would be they did horrible things if it was all historically true. Horrible compared to what/when is another question?. Maybe God represents something entirely different to what you think?.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 12, 2020 1:48:47 GMT -5
Today for sure
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 4:05:43 GMT -5
Some preacher, I think it was Billy Graham, said every chosen man of GOD mentioned in the Bible eventually wronged GOD. Noah, Moses, JOB, Even Solomon the wisest man who ever lived wronged GOD. I'm wondering of Paul ever wronged GOD? I know he did while his name was Saul; but, how about after his name was changed to Paul ... did he eventually wrong GOD? Was Paul infallible?
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 4:19:39 GMT -5
And we wonder why people take it literally. Well, would you take Heaven literally? Would you take God literally?Not like religion demands. Religion has warped the idea of God so far people are seriously not interested. The Godmam image is good for......MOVIES!.
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Post by nathan on Oct 12, 2020 9:33:37 GMT -5
Well, would you take Heaven literally? Would you take God literally? Not like religion demands. Religion has warped the idea of God so far people are seriously not interested. The Godmam image is good for......MOVIES!. You did NOT answer the questions.... Do you believe in heaven literally? Is God tangible that you can touch Him? Or do you believe heaven and God are figuratively/not real like Hades/Hell are imagination.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 12, 2020 12:14:12 GMT -5
Faith , hope and charity lacking on some . Honestly you could seriously turn people seeking comfort in a creator away . By your words . Don’t try to run a end game on me . I am a full grown cat , not a kitten . Unacceptable , you truly could turn some searching away with your actions . I OWN up to mine and admit I have done plenty wrong in my life . I own up it . However I stand by my convictions and common sense and carry on . Regardless of the damage done to me by 2X2’s . A mental health break required ! Yes I am a alpha female deal with it ! Because I lived in the jungle and know evil I have been face to face with evil many times. ! One more post after my coffee ! Then I will then be done for today .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 12, 2020 12:38:14 GMT -5
Your words and anger and RED COLOUR are silly
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Post by fixit on Oct 12, 2020 12:40:01 GMT -5
Honestly you could seriously turn people seeking comfort in a creator away . By your words . I hear you. Jesus had harsh words for the bible-thumpers of his time and welcomed those who they despised.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 12, 2020 13:32:19 GMT -5
Promised Land Not Guaranteed ! You can’t trust freedom When it’s not in your hands Where everybody’s fightin for their promised land Look at the doubt we’ve wallowed Look at the leader’s we’ve followed Look at the lie’s we’ve swallowed I don’t want to hear anymore
Public service announcement #5
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 14:00:31 GMT -5
So it's on a par with a Harry Potter. If you want to have a go at someones intelligence I would ask. Why would you read something in the manner you do when you were never the intended audience?. Then if we, -all of us in our time, -are not the "intended audience," Chuck, -aren't you also NOT a part of the same "intended audience?"
If that is true, why do you spend so much time trying to figure them out & seemingly to want to exonerate them of their oft times horrendous actions?
Why is their culture more important to study than any of the other cultures?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 14:03:45 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 14:33:19 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell us that the terrible things that the supposed chosen people of God in the bible did to others was NOT really true, -that it represents something else entirely different?
Did they drive society forwards or backwards?. Are we better off today because of actions back then or not?. Is the world better today becuase of this law or not?. “Suppose you go out to war against your enemies and the Lord your God hands them over to you, and you take some of them as captives.And suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you are attracted to her and want to marry her.If this happens, you may take her to your home, where she must shave her head, cut her nails,and change the clothes she was wearing when she was captured. She will stay in your home, but let her mourn for her father and mother for a full month. Then you may marry her, and you will be her husband and she will be your wife.But if you marry her and she does not please you, you must let her go free. You may not sell her or treat her as a slave, for you have humiliated her. - Deuteronomy 21:10-14 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy21:10-14&version=NLTWould you rather be a women today or in 1950? or 1850?, or 1750?. My answer would be they did horrible things if it was all historically true. Horrible compared to what/when is another question?. Maybe God represents something entirely different to what you think?. Do you, Chuck, believe that they DID drive society "forwards ?"
Do you, Chuck, believe that we "ARE better off today because their actions back then ?.
Do you, Chuck, believe that "the world IS better today because of their law?
Chuck, You say that, "they did horrible things if it was all historically true;" -don't you believe that they were "historically true?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 14:42:13 GMT -5
It's my right to know what it says. I have dozens of reasons for reading things -- whether I enjoy it or not. You missed my point. If you want to critique a old book written to a old audience with a old culture why would you read it as if it was written to you as the intended audience today in todays culture and knowledge?. As for as being able to "critique" anything; "-old books" or whatever, - Bob has had more experience in that category than either you or I have had.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 12, 2020 16:03:47 GMT -5
It's my right to know what it says. I have dozens of reasons for reading things -- whether I enjoy it or not. You missed my point. If you want to critique a old book written to a old audience with a old culture why would you read it as if it was written to you as the intended audience today in todays culture and knowledge?. I would do that in an effort to understand why so many religious people get such crazy revelations that they do. They walk among us, you know.
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 18:10:13 GMT -5
You missed my point. If you want to critique a old book written to a old audience with a old culture why would you read it as if it was written to you as the intended audience today in todays culture and knowledge?. I would do that in an effort to understand why so many religious people get such crazy revelations that they do. They walk among us, you know. So people get the idea of Eternal life(living for ever in a eutopia somewhere else) from?
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 18:32:25 GMT -5
If you want to have a go at someones intelligence I would ask. Why would you read something in the manner you do when you were never the intended audience?. Then if we, -all of us in our time, -are not the "intended audience," Chuck, -aren't you also NOT a part of the same "intended audience?"
If that is true, why do you spend so much time trying to figure them out & seemingly to want to exonerate them of their oft times horrendous actions?
Why is their culture more important to study than any of the other cultures?No I am not part of the intended audience. I spend so much time trying to figure them out because they have a way of bringing life with meaning out of suffering. Just look at the history of Israel. Tiny little nation surrounded by people that hate them yet they continue to flourish. I don't believe I have exonerated anyone from wrongdoing. But regardless of their wrongdoing I am not blind to see how some of their actions have driven the world to as we know it today. And the world has got better not worse. I'm not sure why it's so hard to acknowledge this?. Given the remarks I constantly receive when I try to point this out I can only conclude they think the world is worse off today and therefore we should go back to before the said events like the example I put up that you seemingly ignored or cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that it was better than before. Or is it something else?. I don't believe I said there culture was more important than others. I do think however the culture is important to understand considering I have been heavily indoctrinated from the misunderstanding of said culture.
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Post by chuck on Oct 12, 2020 18:46:21 GMT -5
How else could you derive anything from it?. I would hate to get a image of Zeus from ignorance.........and then tell people when I worked out Zeus wasn't real it's all just a childish fairy tale all the while still ignorant.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 12, 2020 21:02:57 GMT -5
I would do that in an effort to understand why so many religious people get such crazy revelations that they do. They walk among us, you know. So people get the idea of Eternal life(living for ever in a eutopia somewhere else) from? Possibly, but it all depends on what the wring was about. I'm not a NAZI, but I've got a small library on that utopia.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2020 22:54:05 GMT -5
Then if we, -all of us in our time, -are not the "intended audience," Chuck, -aren't you also NOT a part of the same "intended audience?"
If that is true, why do you spend so much time trying to figure them out & seemingly to want to exonerate them of their oft times horrendous actions?
Why is their culture more important to study than any of the other cultures? No I am not part of the intended audience. I spend so much time trying to figure them out because they have a way of bringing life with meaning out of suffering. Just look at the history of Israel. Tiny little nation surrounded by people that hate them yet they continue to flourish. I don't believe I have exonerated anyone from wrongdoing. But regardless of their wrongdoing I am not blind to see how some of their actions have driven the world to as we know it today. And the world has got better not worse. I'm not sure why it's so hard to acknowledge this?. Given the remarks I constantly receive when I try to point this out I can only conclude they think the world is worse off today and therefore we should go back to before the said events like the example I put up that you seemingly ignored or cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that it was better than before. Or is it something else?. I don't believe I said there culture was more important than others. I do think however the culture is important to understand considering I have been heavilyd indoctrinate from the misunderstanding of said culture Ok, -I can understand your studying this particular culture for the reason that you state, -because all of us with 2x2 beliefs came from our indoctrination in this particular culture.
I'm not sure what example that you think I ignored, but I do not think that the "world is worse off today."
In fact from what I have read of the history of all of humanity, -I see the world getting better in many ways and especially in way that people are treated by each other.
However, I can't see and do not believe that the reason for its getting better is due to the biblical Israel. Why should their being "tiny" have anything to do with their survival? True, they did start from a small tribe, but many other cultures were also small.
Also they did not always "flourish. " They did not always even win all battles even biblical history
They themselves were also split in two following the death of King Solomon with the Kingdom of Israel to the north and Judah to the south. Remember as well that they were also in captivity in Babylon for 48 years. They were under Rome at one time. Then during the diaspora thousands were slaughtered and others scattered when Hadrian exiled all Jews from the region.
So, -at that time Israel ceased to exist as a country. Therefore, I don't see all of these things happening to them as a sign of "flourishing." I agree that the world has got better not worse.
But what I don't see is that the culture of biblical tribe call the Israelites is the reason for our world being better
Perhaps people might come to that conclusion for no more reason than that the document called the "BIBLE" has become more influential in our world today than other of the ancient documents,
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Post by chuck on Oct 13, 2020 3:24:13 GMT -5
Not like religion demands. Religion has warped the idea of God so far people are seriously not interested. The Godmam image is good for......MOVIES!. You did NOT answer the questions.... Do you believe in heaven literally? Is God tangible that you can touch Him? Or do you believe heaven and God are figuratively/not real like Hades/Hell are imagination.Yes I believe in my mind heaven is literal. The issue arises on what your definition of Heaven is. I'll stick with the people who invented the idea. A present conscious reality. And if their is a heaven after you die, it woukd ne pretty reasonable to surmise those experiencing now will experience it then. But that is beyond me. Again is depends what God is to you. Tangible in human form that whisps around up in the clouds on a throne but then like Casper the friendly ghost interjecting at random with no consistency down on earth, easily manipulated by babbling and ritual performance No. Tangible like this... Jeremiah 22:16 [16]He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD. Yes. I don't know much about God but that is God. I do believe dmmichgood received recognition for this very thing. Let that sink in. Or tangible like a nature lived out in Christ that even though they killed him the Character still lives in lives today. Yes
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Post by nathan on Oct 13, 2020 11:56:40 GMT -5
You did NOT answer the questions.... Do you believe in heaven literally? Is God tangible that you can touch Him? Or do you believe heaven and God are figuratively/not real like Hades/Hell are imagination. Yes I believe in my mind heaven is literal. The issue arises on what your definition of Heaven is. I'll stick with the people who invented the idea. A present conscious reality. And if their is a heaven after you die, it woukd ne pretty reasonable to surmise those experiencing now will experience it then. But that is beyond me. Again is depends what God is to you. Tangible in human form that whisps around up in the clouds on a throne but then like Casper the friendly ghost interjecting at random with no consistency down on earth, easily manipulated by babbling and ritual performance No. Tangible like this... Jeremiah 22:16 [16]He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD. Yes. I don't know much about God but that is God. I do believe dmmichgood received recognition for this very thing. Let that sink in. Or tangible like a nature lived out in Christ that even though they killed him the Character still lives in lives today. Yes *** Chuck, you believe heaven is Real so is Hell because of humans disobedience spirits. Therefore, God can't allow the humans siner souls to enter heaven, they would cause trouble, chaos, wars in heaven like Satan and 1/3 of the fallen angels caused millions of years ago. Rev. 12:7-9. Christ/God the Son came down from heaven to give us HIS Spirit so, we can enter heaven after death. Jesus said to all sinners You MUST BE BORN AGAIN! To enter the kingdom of heaven. In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve SOLD their souls and their humans children souls to the Devil/Serpent when they partake the forbidden fruit. Therefore, ALL of falen humans souls belong to Satan after births. Christ came down from heaven to set humans souls FREE from Hades and Lake of Fire= Seperation from God forever after the Final judgment day.
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Post by chuck on Oct 14, 2020 19:06:20 GMT -5
No I am not part of the intended audience. I spend so much time trying to figure them out because they have a way of bringing life with meaning out of suffering. Just look at the history of Israel. Tiny little nation surrounded by people that hate them yet they continue to flourish. I don't believe I have exonerated anyone from wrongdoing. But regardless of their wrongdoing I am not blind to see how some of their actions have driven the world to as we know it today. And the world has got better not worse. I'm not sure why it's so hard to acknowledge this?. Given the remarks I constantly receive when I try to point this out I can only conclude they think the world is worse off today and therefore we should go back to before the said events like the example I put up that you seemingly ignored or cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that it was better than before. Or is it something else?. I don't believe I said there culture was more important than others. I do think however the culture is important to understand considering I have been heavilyd indoctrinate from the misunderstanding of said culture Ok, -I can understand your studying this particular culture for the reason that you state, -because all of us with 2x2 beliefs came from our indoctrination in this particular culture.
I'm not sure what example that you think I ignored, but I do not think that the "world is worse off today."
In fact from what I have read of the history of all of humanity, -I see the world getting better in many ways and especially in way that people are treated by each other.
However, I can't see and do not believe that the reason for its getting better is due to the biblical Israel. Why should their being "tiny" have anything to do with their survival? True, they did start from a small tribe, but many other cultures were also small.
Also they did not always "flourish. " They did not always even win all battles even biblical history
They themselves were also split in two following the death of King Solomon with the Kingdom of Israel to the north and Judah to the south. Remember as well that they were also in captivity in Babylon for 48 years. They were under Rome at one time. Then during the diaspora thousands were slaughtered and others scattered when Hadrian exiled all Jews from the region.
So, -at that time Israel ceased to exist as a country. Therefore, I don't see all of these things happening to them as a sign of "flourishing." I agree that the world has got better not worse.
But what I don't see is that the culture of biblical tribe call the Israelites is the reason for our world being better
Perhaps people might come to that conclusion for no more reason than that the document called the "BIBLE" has become more influential in our world today than other of the ancient documents,
I will get to this.
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