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Post by mountain on Sept 12, 2020 5:18:33 GMT -5
Standard Christadelphian and Jehovah Witness theology - but not Biblical. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit speaks, teaches, rebukes, provides comfort, makes decisions, grieves sin, changes and overrules human actions to name a few. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit has a separate name but is also called the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of Jesus, and even Lord etc. - just a tad different to being assigned a gender in a non gender neutral language). It's impossible to read Scripture and not immediately conclude that the Holy Spirit is a personal being and the giver of life. Again, not a great issue for the 2x2's. While their teaching can be a bit muddled, I was in a meeting not too long ago where they sang to the Holy Spirit and asked Him to "breathe upon us, teach us, guide us, make Thy presence known, to speak to us in His gentle voice, dwell in our hearts, whisper to us, guide our hearts to Jesus, prompt us to pray etc." God is a spirit. Of course the holy spirit is God. Just not a separate person in a pagan-inspired trinity. God is a single being, not three. He created man in this image. Man is a single being. not three. God's active force is his spirit and his word belongs to him. His word is living because of the spirit of God which accompanies it. Jesus is a human being whom God raised up and lived within via his spirit. Jesus spoke all that God commanded him. Jesus emptied himself of self daily to allow God to express himself through him by word and deed. This is why Jesus is the 'express image of God.' Adam was created in the image of God, and Jesus through being a son of Adam was likewise, a human being, but because of his obedience to God, he was the express image of God. Created in God's image like the rest of us, but allowing God to fully express himself through his being. Jesus tells us that of himself he was nothing. This is because he made himself nothing to fulfill the will of God. Jesus was born with the spirit of God then empowered by the Spirit at his baptism. We are not born with the spirit of God, and that's why we must be born again and become like Jesus, ie born from above. As Fixit states, the Holy Spirit is God. The Word is also God because it is 'always' the Father's word (show one single example where it isn't). Jesus us the word of God through messengership and is the spirit of God through God's spirit indwelling him.
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Post by mountain on Sept 12, 2020 5:22:28 GMT -5
You think we either follow Christadelphian/JW theology or Catholic theology? Perhaps its not as black or white as that. It's obvious Nate gets a lot of Kudos on TMB for his trinitarian dogma. Without that he would be gone by lunchtime. NOT we but YOU! who follow and believe in Christadelphian/JW theology for 20 years by your posts on TMB under different alias.
It's God who gives them revelation, the knowledge and understanding on the Godhead, the Trinity, Jesus is God the Son/Christ. STR, is one of the good examples on TMB. People, the friends and workers are begin to WAKE UP! and they are studying these subject for themselves. The workers are NO help on the Godhead subject, many of them are so confuse they don't KNOW who Jesus really is.
There are some things that I disagree with the Delphs about, but they are far closer to the truth of matters than mainstream Christianity. I also believe they have gone wrong by losing their focus on the gospel and heavily exploring prophecy, which to a great extent has become their gospel. Sad indeed. They weren't very far away.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 7:21:38 GMT -5
and i can only imagine how confused your little meeting is with you at the helm...elder Does the person at the helm of your meeting preach the trinity in the meeting Wally?. Do your workers preach the trinity? not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation....
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 8:01:46 GMT -5
Does the person at the helm of your meeting preach the trinity in the meeting Wally?. Do your workers preach the trinity?not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... Most of the workers and the friends today! do NOT use the word Trinity in the gospel or Sunday worship meetings but they PREACH and TEACH the concept of the Trinity; Jesus is the Son of God, His Divinity or Jesus came down from heaven and he creator of all things. They pray to the Holy Spirit and God the Father in their Sunday morning fellowship gathering. MOST of The workers and the friends today, do NOT use the word Trinity because they had been taught INCORRECTLY by the workers in 1960s to this day, that TRINITY doctrine is RCC invention doctrine and that is FALSE so, don't BELIEVE or TEACH it.Dan Hilton a senior 2x2 worker
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington State USA 1985] Dan Hilton
Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv in USA 1996] 8/20/2020 RossB wrote to Fixit/2x2 elder:
I don't know of any New Testament writer who didn't believe that Jesus was a man - clearly, he was a man - not just any regular man, but the Son of Man. However, if a person reads ALL of the gospel of Matthew, they'll see clearly that Jesus is Lord and the Son of the Living God and is worshipped as Lord. The demons clearly knew who He was. But all of this is not an issue of any significance in the 2x2 church. Workers and friends the world over have zero doubt about both the pre-existence of Christ (as the eternal Son) and the divinity/divine nature of Christ when on earth. Since the late 1960's and emanating from the west coast of the US/Canada, most of them have baulked at, or rejected, Jesus being God - the Son, but they have never denied His pre-existence or divinity/divine nature. Some senior workers are trying to straighten things out. The current Overseer of Colorado, Titus Lehmann, made quite an impact at the 2016 Mudgee Convention in New South Wales, Australia when he said "It is hard to understand how Jesus is God but is also the Son of God. In Paul’s letter to the Colossians it states in Chapter 2:2 (KJV) ‘That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ’. This is a mystery that we can’t fully understand or explain. In Isaiah 9:6 we are told more about Jesus; ‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace’. Of course, a couple of workers in New South Wales had tied themselves in knots by denying the divinity/divine nature of our Lord so Titus' intervention was timely and I know from talking to a few elders about it, made quite an impact. But as I said, the pre-existence of Christ or His divine nature have never been rejected at all by the workers or friends so their beliefs are radically different to what you believe and promote on TMB."Christ is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs" Hebrews 1:3-4. Here are the names of workers who have preached and taught the Trinity and Jesus is God through the years.
John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote: William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. 2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit." 3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them. 4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958 God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.” 5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005 "One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. " 6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... "Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 8:34:48 GMT -5
What about when Nathan says people should be put to death and hung for not believing the trinity? Isn't that pretty awful stuff? I haven't heard you say anything about that! And I think that people are refering to his obsession with valiant Thor and Jesus living in Venus etc. rather than the trinity. By the way, I read the KJV Bible. And I can clearly see that the father is the only true God. ~~ Dan wrote: The trinity seems like a simple concept to grasp, its simply, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7). They comprise 3 aspects of a single God, each with a specific purpose but unified as one. The Father is all knowledge, the Son is the expression and manifestation, and the Spirit is the action and deed. The 3 are united persona's of one entity, each is distinct, and yet all are one. When Jesus was born of woman, he was separated from divine providence, but completely surrendered his will as a man for the will of the Father. It was necessary for a part of God to be perfected in the flesh in order to atone for man, it could not be righteous redemption any other way. The danger in thinking Jesus was just flesh and blood is denying his divinity, and he'd have no authority to save anyone without that. What comprises the Godhead is God, if Christ was not one with the Father and Holy Spirit, there would be no salvation. That's why we are baptized in the name of all 3, born of the Spirit, the living water, and the sacrifice, the "three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one" (1 John 5:8). I think we've discussed this subject to death, but one Father expressed through Christ and empowered by the HS. No separation, no opposition, no contradiction, but one in singularity, purpose, and existence. Just as your body, soul, and spirit are you, Christ, the Father, and Spirit are God. Pragmatic wrote: Yes, and what gets me is the lies about Jimmy Carter, who is still alive. He was asked directly about some of these conspiracy theories, and he had no idea what the interviewer was on about. A friend of our business who was high up in Habitat for Humanity, also asked him if he’d heard such stuff, and he could not believe the nonsense that some people made up to sell their books. Jimmy is a good Christian man even though he might not have been a great President. I don’t like to see his name dragged through the mud with false accusations of coverups. Like I said, there are things you say, Pragmatic..... about President Jimmy Carter are NOT true, he KNOWS a lot of things that he CAN NOT reveal or admit in public but he is a good president of USA. He did a lot of good things for humanity.~ Posted 6/2018 An intelligent briefing/information was given to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus is the Visitor from Venus planet. Then the President Jimmy Carter said " So HOW do we TELL the people that? "
SEX SLAVES Freed from ET Dulce NM Base-Article by Jailed Rescue Team Capt. Mark Richards, Radio Interview of wife Jo Ann Richards by Enki July 14, 2017 Under secret Presidential Order, signed by President Jimmy Carter, the NSA’s Department Z, the newly established DELTA FORCE, and a specially hand-picked group of Air Force SOC, Navy SEAL, and Army Rangers were organized for a mission so secret that not even command officers were told what it was about until the night of the attack. enkispeaks.com/sex-slaves-freed-from-et-dulce-nm-base-article-by-jailed-rescue-team-capt-mark-richards-radio-interview-of-wife-joanne-richards/
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Post by maryhig on Sept 12, 2020 8:49:23 GMT -5
Does the person at the helm of your meeting preach the trinity in the meeting Wally?. Do your workers preach the trinity? not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... So why will fixits meeting be confused with him at the helm, when he teaches the same as the rest of the elders and workers do in your meetings?
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 8:55:28 GMT -5
not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... So why will fixits meeting be confused with him at the helm, when he teaches the same as the rest of the elders and workers do in your meetings? 6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
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Post by maryhig on Sept 12, 2020 9:02:55 GMT -5
So why will fixits meeting be confused with him at the helm, when he teaches the same as the rest of the elders and workers do in your meetings? 6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
Nathan, you yourself have said that the majority of the friends and workers don't believe in the trinity. Wally had confirmed that they don't teach the trinity in his meetings. So fixit isn't confusing anyone by not teaching the trinity as that is what most of the 2x2s believe. It is you and Wally and a few others that are the minority. And you even condemn those who don't believe as you do, which is most of the friends and workers!
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Post by Annan on Sept 12, 2020 9:15:25 GMT -5
Pragmatic wrote: Yes, and what gets me is the lies about Jimmy Carter, who is still alive. He was asked directly about some of these conspiracy theories, and he had no idea what the interviewer was on about. A friend of our business who was high up in Habitat for Humanity, also asked him if he’d heard such stuff, and he could not believe the nonsense that some people made up to sell their books. Jimmy is a good Christian man even though he might not have been a great President. I don’t like to see his name dragged through the mud with false accusations of coverups. Like I said, there are things you say, Pragmatic..... about President Jimmy Carter are NOT true, he KNOWS a lot of things that he CAN NOT reveal or admit in public but he is a good president of USA. He did a lot of good things for humanity.~ Posted 6/2018 An intelligent briefing/information was given to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus is the Visitor from Venus planet. Then the President Jimmy Carter said " So HOW do we TELL the people that? "
SEX SLAVES Freed from ET Dulce NM Base-Article by Jailed Rescue Team Capt. Mark Richards, Radio Interview of wife Jo Ann Richards by Enki July 14, 2017 Under secret Presidential Order, signed by President Jimmy Carter, the NSA’s Department Z, the newly established DELTA FORCE, and a specially hand-picked group of Air Force SOC, Navy SEAL, and Army Rangers were organized for a mission so secret that not even command officers were told what it was about until the night of the attack. enkispeaks.com/sex-slaves-freed-from-et-dulce-nm-base-article-by-jailed-rescue-team-capt-mark-richards-radio-interview-of-wife-joanne-richards/NOT PROOF, NATHAN. Unless you have a video of Jimmy Carter saying such things, it is hearsay NOT PROOF. Stop posting such lies!
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 9:15:39 GMT -5
6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
Nathan, you yourself have said that the majority of the friends and workers don't believe in the trinity. Wally had confirmed that they don't teach the trinity in his meetings. So fixit isn't confusing anyone by not teaching the trinity as that is what most of the 2x2s believe. It is you and Wally and a few others that are the minority. And you even condemn those who don't believe as you do, which is most of the friends and workers! RossB and myself have shown you the workers in 1960s to the current days, have taught the friends falsely about the Trinity is the RCC inventions and is the devil's doctrine and most of the current friends, the elders/fixit, and workers are teaching people false belief because the early days workers were NOT anti-Trinity believers.
So, do you think the workers and the friends today should continue to teach others to be Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God belief? Do you think Jesus allows that kind of false anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God in His church without correcting their mistakes? Should the majority of 2x2s keeps leading people go over the cliff?
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 9:20:46 GMT -5
Like I said, there are things you say, Pragmatic..... about President Jimmy Carter are NOT true, he KNOWS a lot of things that he CAN NOT reveal or admit in public but he is a good president of USA. He did a lot of good things for humanity.~ Posted 6/2018 An intelligent briefing/information was given to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus is the Visitor from Venus planet. Then the President Jimmy Carter said " So HOW do we TELL the people that? "
SEX SLAVES Freed from ET Dulce NM Base-Article by Jailed Rescue Team Capt. Mark Richards, Radio Interview of wife Jo Ann Richards by Enki July 14, 2017 Under secret Presidential Order, signed by President Jimmy Carter, the NSA’s Department Z, the newly established DELTA FORCE, and a specially hand-picked group of Air Force SOC, Navy SEAL, and Army Rangers were organized for a mission so secret that not even command officers were told what it was about until the night of the attack. enkispeaks.com/sex-slaves-freed-from-et-dulce-nm-base-article-by-jailed-rescue-team-capt-mark-richards-radio-interview-of-wife-joanne-richards/ NOT PROOF, NATHAN. Unless you have a video of Jimmy Carter saying such things, it is hearsay NOT PROOF. Stop posting such lies! It's under SECRET Presidential ORDER signed by President Jimmy Carter! He can't tell anyone or a soul about it but those who were sent to do the JOB for him can reveal, they have risked their lives to TELL it and They are NOT afraid to do so. Let the READERS decide for themselves, who are TELLING the Truth, or liars, eh.... YOU, Prag and his friend, or Captain Mark Richards, his wife, Phil. S. and me.
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Post by Annan on Sept 12, 2020 9:27:28 GMT -5
NOT PROOF, NATHAN. Unless you have a video of Jimmy Carter saying such things, it is hearsay NOT PROOF. Stop posting such lies! It's under SECRET Presidential ORDER signed by President Jimmy Carter! He can't tell anyone soul about it but those who were sent to do the JOB for him can tell people about but those who are involved have risked their lives to TELL it and They are NOT afraid to do so. Let the READERS decide for themselves, who are TELLING the Truth, eh.... YOU, Prag and his friend, or Captain Mark Richards, his wife, Phil. S. and me.
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-!
You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts.
The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE!
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Post by maryhig on Sept 12, 2020 9:28:16 GMT -5
Nathan, you yourself have said that the majority of the friends and workers don't believe in the trinity. Wally had confirmed that they don't teach the trinity in his meetings. So fixit isn't confusing anyone by not teaching the trinity as that is what most of the 2x2s believe. It is you and Wally and a few others that are the minority. And you even condemn those who don't believe as you do, which is most of the friends and workers! RossB and myself have shown you the workers in 1960s to the current days, have taught the friends falsely about the Trinity is the RCC inventions and is the devil's doctrine and most of the current friends, the elders/fixit, and workers are teaching people false belief because the early days workers were NOT anti-Trinity believers.
So, do you think the workers and the friends today should continue to teach others to be Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God belief? Do you think Jesus allows that kind of false anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God in His church without correcting their mistakes? Should the majority of 2x2s keeps leading people go over the cliff?
What I'm saying is, you can't say fixit is in the wrong if he is teaching what the rest of your church teaches. Maybe you should be in a church more suited to your beliefs! And Edward Cooney was an early worker and he definitely didn't preach the trinity. And please don't tell me he did, I've looked into it and spoken to people who went to his meetings in Ireland and he definitely didn't! And I don't care what you and Ross believe, it's not the truth!
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 12, 2020 9:38:54 GMT -5
It's under SECRET Presidential ORDER signed by President Jimmy Carter! He can't tell anyone soul about it but those who were sent to do the JOB for him can tell people about but those who are involved have risked their lives to TELL it and They are NOT afraid to do so. Let the READERS decide for themselves, who are TELLING the Truth, eh.... YOU, Prag and his friend, or Captain Mark Richards, his wife, Phil. S. and me.
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-!
You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts.
The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE! nathan doesnt think before he posts Annan !!! Like you said Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but nathan knows .... ! We all know he "thinks" he is "special" but this is stretching it a bit too far !
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 9:46:49 GMT -5
It's under SECRET Presidential ORDER signed by President Jimmy Carter! He can't tell anyone soul about it but those who were sent to do the JOB for him can tell people about but those who are involved have risked their lives to TELL it and They are NOT afraid to do so. Let the READERS decide for themselves, who are TELLING the Truth, eh.... YOU, Prag and his friend, or Captain Mark Richards, his wife, Phil. S. and me.
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-! You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts. The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE! Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The TWO men, Captain Mark Richards and Phil S. who were sent to do the job for President Jimmy Carter, have RISKED their lives, they lived through it and TELL about the event at Dulce, New Mexico in 1979. You are the crappy witch, around here with your lies, hex and so on.
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Post by Annan on Sept 12, 2020 9:51:29 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-! You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts. The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE! Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The TWO men who were sent to do the job for President Jimmy Carter, have RISKED their lives, they lived and TELL about the event at Dulce, New Mexico in 1979. You are the crappy witch, around here with your lies, hex and so on. Oh come on, Nathan. You can come up with better insults than that.
I love that when you can't defend your position with truths that you work yourself into a tizzy and lash out with insults. Try again.
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 9:56:06 GMT -5
RossB and myself have shown you the workers in 1960s to the current days, have taught the friends falsely about the Trinity is the RCC inventions and is the devil's doctrine and most of the current friends, the elders/fixit, and workers are teaching people false belief because the early days workers were NOT anti-Trinity believers.
So, do you think the workers and the friends today should continue to teach others to be Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God belief? Do you think Jesus allows that kind of false anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God in His church without correcting their mistakes? Should the majority of 2x2s keeps leading people go over the cliff?
What I'm saying is, you can't say fixit is in the wrong if he is teaching what the rest of your church teaches. Maybe you should be in a church more suited to your beliefs! And Edward Cooney was an early worker and he definitely didn't preach the trinity. And please don't tell me he did, I've looked into it and spoken to people who went up his meetings in Ireland and he definitely didn't! And I don't care what you and Ross believe, it's not the truth! You writing things which you don't know and understand... RossB and I have shown you history of Edward Cooney, William Irvine, Jack Carroll, and many early days workers sermons at conventions, where they had preached and taught the Trinity; Jesus is God since the beginning in 1898... Dec 14, 2019 Gill said: If I understand correctly, the first workers to leave Ireland/England/Scotland etc. were mostly trinitarian. When did this change? Was there a desire to be diffferent from the world and they saw this anti-trinitarian stance as a way to be different? Did Eldon Tenniswood move the west coast towards a more anti-trinitarian position? RossB wrote: It's clear from the early hymns (in their Go Preachers' Hymnbook) that the early workers believed in a triune God. If you track this through to 1951 (Hymns Old and New update) they clearly still believed in a triune God. This seemed to change with Eldon Tenniswood and co between the 1951 and 1987 hymnbook when clearly different doctrine (and in my view false doctrine) set in amongst the senior workers. In this period, the power base for the 2x2's shifted from England to the US - hence the latest and current hymnbook was produced in CA. The tombstone of Sam Jones, the most prolific hymnwriter in the 2x2's refers to the line in one of his hymns "....the God who died for me". Clearly, a belief that the Son was God. Edward Cooney was clearly not anti-trinitarian. He would have hardly agreed to the inclusion of the following verse of the hymn (#71) "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed..." in the Go-Preachers hymnbook if he didn't believe in a triune God. O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee.Likewise, the hymn "When I survey the wondrous cross..." refers to Christ my God - in the Go Preachers hymnbook (and the 1951 O&N but subsequently changed in 1987). Furthermore, in 1952, just eight years before he died, Edward Cooney wrote "now will conclude by greeting all who desire to be children of God in the conceit of our hearts saying: "I am of Christ," for Jesus never said "I am of Christ," but claimed to be the Son of God. He always claimed that God was his Father; and that although he was the mighty God, his Father was mightier and greater than he." (my emphasis added in bold). Source: Patricia Roberts' book Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 Edward Cooney is clearly not going to write very specific words about Jesus being mighty God, if he did not believe it. Based on his writings, he was very clear in what he believed. A strong theme through his writings is that redemption/atonement for our sins is only available through Christ's blood that was shed on Calvary and eternal life through His resurrection.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 12, 2020 10:01:42 GMT -5
What I'm saying is, you can't say fixit is in the wrong if he is teaching what the rest of your church teaches. Maybe you should be in a church more suited to your beliefs! And Edward Cooney was an early worker and he definitely didn't preach the trinity. And please don't tell me he did, I've looked into it and spoken to people who went up his meetings in Ireland and he definitely didn't! And I don't care what you and Ross believe, it's not the truth! You writing things which you don't know and understand... RossB and I have shown you history of Edward Cooney, William Irvine, Jack Carroll, and many early days workers sermons at conventions, where they had preached and taught the Trinity; Jesus is God since the beginning in 1898... Dec 14, 2019 Gill said: If I understand correctly, the first workers to leave Ireland/England/Scotland etc. were mostly trinitarian. When did this change? Was there a desire to be diffferent from the world and they saw this anti-trinitarian stance as a way to be different? Did Eldon Tenniswood move the west coast towards a more anti-trinitarian position? RossB wrote: It's clear from the early hymns (in their Go Preachers' Hymnbook) that the early workers believed in a triune God. If you track this through to 1951 (Hymns Old and New update) they clearly still believed in a triune God. This seemed to change with Eldon Tenniswood and co between the 1951 and 1987 hymnbook when clearly different doctrine (and in my view false doctrine) set in amongst the senior workers. In this period, the power base for the 2x2's shifted from England to the US - hence the latest and current hymnbook was produced in CA. The tombstone of Sam Jones, the most prolific hymnwriter in the 2x2's refers to the line in one of his hymns "....the God who died for me". Clearly, a belief that the Son was God. Edward Cooney was clearly not anti-trinitarian. He would have hardly agreed to the inclusion of the following verse of the hymn (#71) "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed..." in the Go-Preachers hymnbook if he didn't believe in a triune God. O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee. Likewise, the hymn "When I survey the wondrous cross..." refers to Christ my God - in the Go Preachers hymnbook (and the 1951 O&N but subsequently changed in 1987). Furthermore, in 1952, just eight years before he died, Edward Cooney wrote "now will conclude by greeting all who desire to be children of God in the conceit of our hearts saying: "I am of Christ," for Jesus never said "I am of Christ," but claimed to be the Son of God. He always claimed that God was his Father; and that although he was the mighty God, his Father was mightier and greater than he." (my emphasis added in bold). Source: Patricia Roberts' book Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 Edward Cooney is clearly not going to write very specific words about Jesus being mighty God, if he did not believe it. Based on his writings, he was very clear in what he believed. A strong theme through his writings is that redemption/atonement for our sins is only available through Christ's blood that was shed on Calvary and eternal life through His resurrection. I clearly understand what Edward believed, I have been speaking to people who attended his meetings. So I know better than you Nathan. And Edward clearly says that the father is the Almighty God, so he's higher than Jesus. Also they still don't believe in the trinity in his meetings in Ireland. Edward did not believe in the trinity regardless what you say!
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 12, 2020 10:09:00 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-! You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts. The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE! Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The TWO men, Captain Mark Richards and Phil S. who were sent to do the job for President Jimmy Carter, have RISKED their lives, they lived through it and TELL about the event at Dulce, New Mexico in 1979. You are the crappy witch, around here with your lies, hex and so on.
We know who has the "reading comprehension problem " nathan !! Stop repeating lies !
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Post by intelchips on Sept 12, 2020 10:45:32 GMT -5
Pragmatic wrote: Yes, and what gets me is the lies about Jimmy Carter, who is still alive. He was asked directly about some of these conspiracy theories, and he had no idea what the interviewer was on about. A friend of our business who was high up in Habitat for Humanity, also asked him if he’d heard such stuff, and he could not believe the nonsense that some people made up to sell their books. Jimmy is a good Christian man even though he might not have been a great President. I don’t like to see his name dragged through the mud with false accusations of coverups. Like I said, there are things you say, Pragmatic..... about President Jimmy Carter are NOT true, he KNOWS a lot of things that he CAN NOT reveal or admit in public but he is a good president of USA. He did a lot of good things for humanity.~ Posted 6/2018 An intelligent briefing/information was given to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus is the Visitor from Venus planet. Then the President Jimmy Carter said " So HOW do we TELL the people that? "
SEX SLAVES Freed from ET Dulce NM Base-Article by Jailed Rescue Team Capt. Mark Richards, Radio Interview of wife Jo Ann Richards by Enki July 14, 2017 Under secret Presidential Order, signed by President Jimmy Carter, the NSA’s Department Z, the newly established DELTA FORCE, and a specially hand-picked group of Air Force SOC, Navy SEAL, and Army Rangers were organized for a mission so secret that not even command officers were told what it was about until the night of the attack. enkispeaks.com/sex-slaves-freed-from-et-dulce-nm-base-article-by-jailed-rescue-team-capt-mark-richards-radio-interview-of-wife-joanne-richards/ edhca.org/
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 12, 2020 13:47:13 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-!
You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts.
The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE! nathan doesnt think before he posts Annan !!! Like you said Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but nathan knows .... ! We all know he "thinks" he is "special" but this is stretching it a bit too far ! That's special as in "special needs"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 14:55:58 GMT -5
It's under SECRET Presidential ORDER signed by President Jimmy Carter! He can't tell anyone soul about it but those who were sent to do the JOB for him can tell people about but those who are involved have risked their lives to TELL it and They are NOT afraid to do so. Let the READERS decide for themselves, who are TELLING the Truth, eh.... YOU, Prag and his friend, or Captain Mark Richards, his wife, Phil. S. and me.
Jimmy Carter can't tell anyone but YOU know??? Bull sh-!
You may have been posting your crap for 20 years, but you sure haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts.
The readers HAVE decided. YOU ALL LOSE!But don’t call anybody ‘nuts’ who persists with this stuff. Ross has spoken.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 15:00:38 GMT -5
not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... So why will fixits meeting be confused with him at the helm, when he teaches the same as the rest of the elders and workers do in your meetings? They’re fairly grounded people in that area.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 15:21:46 GMT -5
not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... So why will fixits meeting be confused with him at the helm, when he teaches the same as the rest of the elders and workers do in your meetings? fixit has more problems than just the trinity....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 15:24:35 GMT -5
What about when Nathan says people should be put to death and hung for not believing the trinity? Isn't that pretty awful stuff? I haven't heard you say anything about that! And I think that people are refering to his obsession with valiant Thor and Jesus living in Venus etc. rather than the trinity. By the way, I read the KJV Bible. And I can clearly see that the father is the only true God. Yes, and what gets me is the lies about Jimmy Carter, who is still alive. He was asked directly about some of these conspiracy theories, and he had no idea what the interviewer was on about. A friend of our business who was high up in Habitat for Humanity, also asked him if he’d heard such stuff, and he could not believe the nonsense that some people made up to sell their books. Jimmy is a good Christian man even though he might not have been a great President. I don’t like to see his name dragged through the mud with false accusations of coverups. I agree, it’s fairly personal abuse of Jimmy Carter to be spouting all these accusations on a public forum.
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 15:48:45 GMT -5
*** Thanks, I read about Captain Mark Richards' father who was the general or in command of the above Top Secret elite Special force in dealing with E.T. presence on earth back in 1960s. Mark Richards is part of this Top Secret unit and he served under his father command. Mark was one of the commanding officers of this Top Secret Elite troops. They were sent to off worlds secret mission in other planets, and about MANY ET races on planet earth and beyond. Kerry Cassidy had 8 interviews with Mark about the Dulce,New Mexico rescue mission in 1979 and MANY of the current events with Trump. You can go to YouTube and listen the interview of Mark and Kerry Cassidy.
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 15:50:20 GMT -5
Like I said, there are things you say, Pragmatic..... about President Jimmy Carter are NOT true, he KNOWS a lot of things that he CAN NOT reveal or admit in public but he is a good president of USA. He did a lot of good things for humanity.~ Posted 6/2018 An intelligent briefing/information was given to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus is the Visitor from Venus planet. Then the President Jimmy Carter said " So HOW do we TELL the people that? "
SEX SLAVES Freed from ET Dulce NM Base-Article by Jailed Rescue Team Capt. Mark Richards, Radio Interview of wife Jo Ann Richards by Enki July 14, 2017 Under secret Presidential Order, signed by President Jimmy Carter, the NSA’s Department Z, the newly established DELTA FORCE, and a specially hand-picked group of Air Force SOC, Navy SEAL, and Army Rangers were organized for a mission so secret that not even command officers were told what it was about until the night of the attack. enkispeaks.com/sex-slaves-freed-from-et-dulce-nm-base-article-by-jailed-rescue-team-capt-mark-richards-radio-interview-of-wife-joanne-richards/ edhca.org/
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Post by nathan on Sept 12, 2020 15:51:58 GMT -5
not yet, as its not a requirement for salvation.... Most of the workers and the friends today! do NOT use the word Trinity in the gospel or Sunday worship meetings but they PREACH and TEACH the concept of the Trinity; Jesus is the Son of God, His Divinity or Jesus came down from heaven and he creator of all things. They pray to the Holy Spirit and God the Father in their Sunday morning fellowship gathering. MOST of The workers and the friends today, do NOT use the word Trinity because they had been taught INCORRECTLY by the workers in 1960s to this day, that TRINITY doctrine is RCC invention doctrine and that is FALSE so, don't BELIEVE or TEACH it.Dan Hilton a senior 2x2 worker
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington State USA 1985] Dan Hilton
Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv in USA 1996] 8/20/2020 RossB wrote to Fixit/2x2 elder:
I don't know of any New Testament writer who didn't believe that Jesus was a man - clearly, he was a man - not just any regular man, but the Son of Man. However, if a person reads ALL of the gospel of Matthew, they'll see clearly that Jesus is Lord and the Son of the Living God and is worshipped as Lord. The demons clearly knew who He was. But all of this is not an issue of any significance in the 2x2 church. Workers and friends the world over have zero doubt about both the pre-existence of Christ (as the eternal Son) and the divinity/divine nature of Christ when on earth. Since the late 1960's and emanating from the west coast of the US/Canada, most of them have baulked at, or rejected, Jesus being God - the Son, but they have never denied His pre-existence or divinity/divine nature. Some senior workers are trying to straighten things out. The current Overseer of Colorado, Titus Lehmann, made quite an impact at the 2016 Mudgee Convention in New South Wales, Australia when he said "It is hard to understand how Jesus is God but is also the Son of God. In Paul’s letter to the Colossians it states in Chapter 2:2 (KJV) ‘That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ’. This is a mystery that we can’t fully understand or explain. In Isaiah 9:6 we are told more about Jesus; ‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace’. Of course, a couple of workers in New South Wales had tied themselves in knots by denying the divinity/divine nature of our Lord so Titus' intervention was timely and I know from talking to a few elders about it, made quite an impact. But as I said, the pre-existence of Christ or His divine nature have never been rejected at all by the workers or friends so their beliefs are radically different to what you believe and promote on TMB."Christ is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs" Hebrews 1:3-4. Here are the names of workers who have preached and taught the Trinity and Jesus is God through the years.
John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote: William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. 2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit." 3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them. 4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958 God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.” 5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005 "One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. " 6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... "Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
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