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Post by ForeverFree on Jul 8, 2020 21:54:52 GMT -5
It's human nature. And we are all human. So why do people blame others for doing it when they do it themselves? Hypocrisy is ingrained in our biology and DNA — our cognitive dissonance wants to elevate ourselves and people in our own in-groups as righteous, others as not righteous. It's human nature in a nutshell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 22:09:41 GMT -5
Ummm. I may have your point wrong. So if it is the Christian thing to do and one follows to the letter of the law some of those old biblical archaic verses what happens to the lost sheep? What happens to the seeking soul who may actually be viewed as an atheist, agnostic, religious, ex Christian, lover of movies or the alcoholic or whatever ....by the so called Christian. Oh thou must shun them
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 8, 2020 22:25:13 GMT -5
..Then we have a Christian elder on here who most certainly doesn’t practise that behaviour but gets criticised by another so called Christian ( a Venus one). Shows up the madness , emptiness & hypocrisy time & time again. An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were?
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 22:31:37 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 22:31:37 GMT -5
Some religions, such as Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Amish and 2x2's, have formal policies to shun those who question or leave the religion. It is something practised by those in cult organisations. Certainly not Christian behaviour. Nobody should ever be set aside because they don't accept some man made belief system. The best way we found to get away from the hurt is move away from them. People with that mentality are not worth worrying about. Get a circle of new friends, you will find them better than the friends you thought you had. What is Christian behaviour? Did Christ include those who left Him? You have a very poor understanding of the nature of Christ. And most have a poor understanding of who it would be that were considered to be “those that left him”. As for the verses that openact mentioned, if we were to apply those verses as under the same severity as in those days, there would be no one left in the church. Extortion is a lot more to Jesus than what will put us in prison today. Greed? We are so conditioned to greed we don’t even know we’re greedy. And drunkards.... was just reading our Wednesday night study chapter and we were noticing those that were drunk with pride. God hates pride. Who isn’t proud? As for Jesus sending a sword, that isn’t a sword we use AGAINST anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 22:33:09 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in.
One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless".
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 22:33:17 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 22:33:17 GMT -5
Ummm. I may have your point wrong. So if it is the Christian thing to do and one follows to the letter of the law some of those old biblical archaic verses what happens to the lost sheep? What happens to the seeking soul who may actually be viewed as an atheist, agnostic, religious, ex Christian, lover of movies or the alcoholic or whatever ....by the so called Christian. Oh thou must shun them Those were the ones that Jesus didn’t shun but his so called people DID. (Do?)
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 22:39:40 GMT -5
Some religions, such as Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Amish and 2x2's, have formal policies to shun those who question or leave the religion. It is something practised by those in cult organisations. Certainly not Christian behaviour. Nobody should ever be set aside because they don't accept some man made belief system. The best way we found to get away from the hurt is move away from them. People with that mentality are not worth worrying about. Get a circle of new friends, you will find them better than the friends you thought you had. What is Christian behaviour? Did Christ include those who left Him? Here's some good advice... Romans 12:16 Live in harmony with each other. Don’t be too proud to enjoy the company of ordinary people. And don’t think you know it all! 17 Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. 18 Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone. 19 Dear friends, never take revenge. Leave that to the righteous anger of God. For the Scriptures say, “I will take revenge; I will pay them back,” says the Lord. 20 Instead, “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals of shame on their heads.” 21 Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good.
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 22:44:49 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 22:44:49 GMT -5
..Then we have a Christian elder on here who most certainly doesn’t practise that behaviour but gets criticised by another so called Christian ( a Venus one). Shows up the madness , emptiness & hypocrisy time & time again. An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were? Except when the whole church is FULL of Ananias and Saphiras and when workers are not at all full of the miracles and faith like the apostles. “Of his kingdom there will be no end” means his mercy increases and increases for any that desire him. Times HAVE changed, like redback says. It’s not that the scriptures aren’t the same but a worker cannot apply scriptures like that situation when there are scriptures they themselves are NOT following in spite of the form we have. No we don’t have to rebel against them although it certainly can be a temptation. As for a bad spirit, most of his people thought Jesus had a bad spirit. He didn’t like the self righteous.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 22:47:31 GMT -5
..Then we have a Christian elder on here who most certainly doesn’t practise that behaviour but gets criticised by another so called Christian ( a Venus one). Shows up the madness , emptiness & hypocrisy time & time again. An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were? Thankfully there are those that portray the spirt rather than being intoxicated with the letter of the law with those old archaic writings. But you are an atheist who loves to stir and get the approval of a few Christians I notice. Whatever strums your banjo.
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 22:48:32 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". Do you think that shunning can also be in words used?
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 22:55:04 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". Would it be shunning when speaking ill of people?
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 23:00:50 GMT -5
What is Christian behaviour? Did Christ include those who left Him? You have a very poor understanding of the nature of Christ. And most have a poor understanding of who it would be that were considered to be “those that left him”. As for the verses that openact mentioned, if we were to apply those verses as under the same severity as in those days, there would be no one left in the church. Extortion is a lot more to Jesus than what will put us in prison today. Greed? We are so conditioned to greed we don’t even know we’re greedy. And drunkards.... was just reading our Wednesday night study chapter and we were noticing those that were drunk with pride. God hates pride. Who isn’t proud? As for Jesus sending a sword, that isn’t a sword we use AGAINST anyone. Why do you feel that you need to put me down? How does that fit in with what Redback posted. (We should always be guided by common sense and common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated.)
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 8, 2020 23:04:34 GMT -5
An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were? Except when the whole church is FULL of Ananias and Saphiras and when workers are not at all full of the miracles and faith like the apostles. “Of his kingdom there will be no end” means his mercy increases and increases for any that desire him. Times HAVE changed, like redback says. It’s not that the scriptures aren’t the same but a worker cannot apply scriptures like that situation when there are scriptures they themselves are NOT following in spite of the form we have. No we don’t have to rebel against them although it certainly can be a temptation. As for a bad spirit, most of his people thought Jesus had a bad spirit. He didn’t like the self righteous. The workers are full of miracles; you just refuse to recognize them. The miracle of convention, the miracle of the homeless ministry, the miracle of the church in homes. But when they simply excommunicate a few people the howling starts and you have false elders who don't even support it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:05:02 GMT -5
Ummm. I may have your point wrong. So if it is the Christian thing to do and one follows to the letter of the law some of those old biblical archaic verses what happens to the lost sheep? What happens to the seeking soul who may actually be viewed as an atheist, agnostic, religious, ex Christian, lover of movies or the alcoholic or whatever ....by the so called Christian. Oh thou must shun them shunning isn't forever or at least hopefully not....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:08:51 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 23:09:48 GMT -5
Ummm. I may have your point wrong. So if it is the Christian thing to do and one follows to the letter of the law some of those old biblical archaic verses what happens to the lost sheep? What happens to the seeking soul who may actually be viewed as an atheist, agnostic, religious, ex Christian, lover of movies or the alcoholic or whatever ....by the so called Christian. Oh thou must shun them shunning isn't forever or at least hopefully not.... That’s the thing. What has happened to many is that is has been indefinitely and without righteous judgment. It becomes quite the hypocrisy when the ones doing the shunning are worthy of being shunned themselves.
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 8, 2020 23:10:54 GMT -5
An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were? Thankfully there are those that portray the spirt rather than being intoxicated with the letter of the law with those old archaic writings. But you are an atheist who loves to stir and get the approval of a few Christians I notice. Whatever strums your banjo. If the faithful professing people in center of God's Will weren't constantly being bullied and run off the board by the tares in the Kingdom, I wouldn't need to post and help defend their point of view. Instead, we get a bunch of worldly church garbage being pushed like it is acceptable in the Truth.
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 23:11:23 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. How did Jesus treat heathen and publicans?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:12:34 GMT -5
he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. How did Jesus treat heathen and publicans? how did the jews treat heathens and publicans is the correct question...they shunned them....
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 23:13:17 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". Would it be shunning when speaking ill of people? Speaking ill of people often causes shunning.
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 23:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 23:13:32 GMT -5
You have a very poor understanding of the nature of Christ. And most have a poor understanding of who it would be that were considered to be “those that left him”. As for the verses that openact mentioned, if we were to apply those verses as under the same severity as in those days, there would be no one left in the church. Extortion is a lot more to Jesus than what will put us in prison today. Greed? We are so conditioned to greed we don’t even know we’re greedy. And drunkards.... was just reading our Wednesday night study chapter and we were noticing those that were drunk with pride. God hates pride. Who isn’t proud? As for Jesus sending a sword, that isn’t a sword we use AGAINST anyone. Why do you feel that you need to put me down? How does that fit in with what Redback posted. (We should always be guided by common sense and common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated.) Speak, you’re intelligent and practical so I am sure you could answer that yourself.
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 23:16:54 GMT -5
An elder who doesn't support shunning or excommunication is not going to be very useful in the kingdom or able to support the ministry. More likely they will be a stumbling block. Just imagine if you were the elder where Ananias and Sapphira went to Sunday morning meeting. Along comes a older brother worker named Peter who zaps them both dead with power from heaven. Would it be right to have a bad spirit and be resentful or judgmental about that killing? Would you talk back to the workers and tell them how wrong they were? Thankfully there are those that portray the spirt rather than being intoxicated with the letter of the law with those old archaic writings. But you are an atheist who loves to stir and get the approval of a few Christians I notice. Whatever strums your banjo. Openingact34 has a very good knowledge of scripture and of professing culture. My guess is that he has been hugely let down and/or abused.
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 23:17:03 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 23:17:03 GMT -5
Thankfully there are those that portray the spirt rather than being intoxicated with the letter of the law with those old archaic writings. But you are an atheist who loves to stir and get the approval of a few Christians I notice. Whatever strums your banjo. If the faithful professing people in center of God's Will weren't constantly being bullied and run off the board by the tares in the Kingdom, I wouldn't need to post and help defend their point of view. Instead, we get a bunch of worldly church garbage being pushed like it is acceptable in the Truth. Openingact will you quit being such a tare😄
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Shunning
Jul 8, 2020 23:18:46 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 8, 2020 23:18:46 GMT -5
How did Jesus treat heathen and publicans? how did the jews treat heathens and publicans is the correct question...they shunned them.... That’s right right they did, and Jesus didn’t.
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 23:19:31 GMT -5
How did Jesus treat heathen and publicans? how did the jews treat heathens and publicans is the correct question...they shunned them.... Jesus was a Jew but he didn't agree with the behavior of religious Jews. It's a stretch to say Jesus was advocating shunning.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:30:36 GMT -5
You can justify shunning as much as you like, but it is plain wrong. It is a form of abuse, and there is no excuse for it. I was deeply hurt by it, and the scar made by it will never go away.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 8, 2020 23:34:12 GMT -5
We should always be guided by common sense and common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. All that is true we should all be like that but we are not, even in posts on this board the basic human decency in being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. does not happen. I am not just speaking of those in the fellowship. Of course not. They are entitled demonstrate their righteous indignation.
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Post by ellie on Jul 8, 2020 23:36:19 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Here's the treatment of the publican: Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him. 10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” It seems a far cry from shunning to me.
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