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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:37:27 GMT -5
how did the jews treat heathens and publicans is the correct question...they shunned them.... Jesus was a Jew but he didn't agree with the behavior of religious Jews. It's a stretch to say Jesus was advocating shunning. the scripture i quoted says it all....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:43:02 GMT -5
he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Here's the treatment of the publican: Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him. 10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” It seems a far cry from shunning to me. one verse does not cancel another it calls us to balance with discipline and yet mercy....i'm living proof that shunning works it did take me about 8 years to come back but come back i did hat in hand and ready to do right...
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 8, 2020 23:45:14 GMT -5
There is no record that states that Christ shunned people. It would be against the humanistic principles that he so strongly believed in. One of the most common forms of bullying is shunning, better known as the silent treatment or the cold shoulder. “Shunning is cruel, unnecessary and pointless". he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Rebuking, which is what Jesus was talking about here, is not shunning. Shunning is hardly likely to "gain a brother"
Shunning may not last forever, but the damage caused by it can be very long lasting, and it's effects can go beyond the person who is shunned. All they need to do is talk about it.
Just because there is no record of Jesus not shunning, does not mean that he did, and to do so would fly in the face of what he preached, and he preached against hypocrisy.
You can't build bridges to the souls of people when you're shunning them. All you do is harden their resolve or hurt them, which is hardly Christian or of moral virtue.
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Post by fixit on Jul 8, 2020 23:45:47 GMT -5
Jesus was a Jew but he didn't agree with the behavior of religious Jews. It's a stretch to say Jesus was advocating shunning. the scripture i quoted says it all.... Don't ignore justice and the love of God. Luke 11:42 “What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 23:49:39 GMT -5
Why do you feel that you need to put me down? How does that fit in with what Redback posted. (We should always be guided by common sense and common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated.) Speak, you’re intelligent and practical so I am sure you could answer that yourself. Put downs are not common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. So why are they used?
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 23:50:57 GMT -5
All that is true we should all be like that but we are not, even in posts on this board the basic human decency in being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. does not happen. I am not just speaking of those in the fellowship. Of course not. They are entitled demonstrate their righteous indignation. So that goes for all, right?
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Post by speak on Jul 8, 2020 23:52:45 GMT -5
Ummm. I may have your point wrong. So if it is the Christian thing to do and one follows to the letter of the law some of those old biblical archaic verses what happens to the lost sheep? What happens to the seeking soul who may actually be viewed as an atheist, agnostic, religious, ex Christian, lover of movies or the alcoholic or whatever ....by the so called Christian. Oh thou must shun them But it not only Christian which is so clearly illustrated on this board.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:53:27 GMT -5
Wally keep quoting scripture, you are really good at it. Unfortunately it is a poor reference source, because it is contradictory as seen on this thread. Just pick the part that suits the occasion. I guess you need to be clever to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 23:56:18 GMT -5
Wally keep quoting scripture, you are really good at it. Unfortunately it is a poor reference source, because it is contradictory as seen on this thread. Just pick the part that suits the occasion. I guess you need to be clever to do that. i feed on Christ given scripture and i promote Christ given scripture as a result, easy enough to understand yes?
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Shunning
Jul 9, 2020 0:02:02 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:02:02 GMT -5
Speak, you’re intelligent and practical so I am sure you could answer that yourself. Put downs are not common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. So why are they used? Good question, speak I would like to ask you the same. And yes, I could certainly do a better job myself.
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Post by ellie on Jul 9, 2020 0:05:09 GMT -5
Here's the treatment of the publican: Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him. 10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” It seems a far cry from shunning to me. one verse does not cancel another it calls us to balance with discipline and yet mercy....i'm living proof that shunning works it did take me about 8 years to come back but come back i did hat in hand and ready to do right... It's not a cancellation. The earlier verses in Matthew 9 clearly show how Jesus treated the publican and heathen. The later verses in chapter 18 are a call to treat the one who has trespassed and not heard the church, in like manner.
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Shunning
Jul 9, 2020 0:05:23 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:05:23 GMT -5
All that is true we should all be like that but we are not, even in posts on this board the basic human decency in being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. does not happen. I am not just speaking of those in the fellowship. Of course not. They are entitled demonstrate their righteous indignation. Yeah what VEHEMENT desire😄
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 9, 2020 0:06:08 GMT -5
Don't you just love it when you ask a question and the answer you get is a verse of scripture. People who can't think for themselves. I suppose they are being childlike, the way a child would behave. I much prefer those who are good at social intercourse, sharing communion, thoughts and feelings. Much more grown up and sensible. 1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; The more you quote such verses the more I realize the bible is a carefully concocted fairy tale best suited to bully boys. Do you wish you had been around when your god gave the order to kill all the men etc but keep the virgins. I bet you would have loved that bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 0:11:16 GMT -5
1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; The more you quote such verses the more I realize the bible is a carefully concocted fairy tale best suited to bully boys. Do you wish you had been around when your god gave the order to kill all the men etc but keep the virgins. I bet you would have loved that bit. i've no wish to be jewish but they are our elder brother....nice try though
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:12:03 GMT -5
1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; The more you quote such verses the more I realize the bible is a carefully concocted fairy tale best suited to bully boys. Do you wish you had been around when your god gave the order to kill all the men etc but keep the virgins. I bet you would have loved that bit. Finally you got here curly! I know you have been busy burning down 5g towers but you do have to keep tabs on your TMB mafia family too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 0:12:37 GMT -5
one verse does not cancel another it calls us to balance with discipline and yet mercy....i'm living proof that shunning works it did take me about 8 years to come back but come back i did hat in hand and ready to do right... It's not a cancellation. The earlier verses in Matthew 9 clearly show how Jesus treated the publican and heathen. The later verses in chapter 18 are a call to treat the one who has trespassed and not heard the church, in like manner. chapter 18 does not say "in like manner"....
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:13:30 GMT -5
The more you quote such verses the more I realize the bible is a carefully concocted fairy tale best suited to bully boys. Do you wish you had been around when your god gave the order to kill all the men etc but keep the virgins. I bet you would have loved that bit. i've no wish to be jewish but they are our elder brother....nice try though What you got against Jewish? You racial?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 0:16:36 GMT -5
i've no wish to be jewish but they are our elder brother....nice try though What you got against Jewish? You racial? not at all i am a pro israel person some would say even zionist. i just wouldn't want to be under jewish OT law....
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Post by ellie on Jul 9, 2020 0:17:11 GMT -5
It's not a cancellation. The earlier verses in Matthew 9 clearly show how Jesus treated the publican and heathen. The later verses in chapter 18 are a call to treat the one who has trespassed and not heard the church, in like manner. chapter 18 does not say "in like manner".... It says as an heathen man and a publican. Look up the definition of like manner if you have any doubt. Perhaps you would prefer I type exact manner?
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Post by speak on Jul 9, 2020 0:22:40 GMT -5
If the faithful professing people in center of God's Will weren't constantly being bullied and run off the board by the tares in the Kingdom, I wouldn't need to post and help defend their point of view. Instead, we get a bunch of worldly church garbage being pushed like it is acceptable in the Truth. Openingact will you quit being such a tare😄 Why the put down?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 0:23:25 GMT -5
chapter 18 does not say "in like manner".... It says as an heathen man and a publican. Look up the definition of like manner if you have any doubt. Perhaps you would prefer I type exact manner? come now.....in like manner means to do the same as chapter 18 doesn't say that at all...it says "let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican" knowing full well what that meant for jews at the time....
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Post by nathan on Jul 9, 2020 0:24:55 GMT -5
he may not have actually shunned anyone but he gave clear instruction how to do so if required here: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Rebuking, which is what Jesus was talking about here, is not shunning. Shunning is hardly likely to "gain a brother"
Shunning may not last forever, but the damage caused by it can be very long lasting, and it's effects can go beyond the person who is shunned. All they need to do is talk about it.
Just because there is no record of Jesus not shunning, does not mean that he did, and to do so would fly in the face of what he preached, and he preached against hypocrisy.
You can't build bridges to the souls of people when you're shunning them. All you do is harden their resolve or hurt them, which is hardly Christian or of moral virtue.
Paul wrote Romans 16:17 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send you greetings. Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.
Paul wrote in II Thess 3 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.... special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.
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Post by speak on Jul 9, 2020 0:25:13 GMT -5
You can justify shunning as much as you like, but it is plain wrong. It is a form of abuse, and there is no excuse for it. I was deeply hurt by it, and the scar made by it will never go away. Yes but you perform it
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Shunning
Jul 9, 2020 0:25:26 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:25:26 GMT -5
What you got against Jewish? You racial? not at all i am a pro israel person some would say even zionist. i just wouldn't want to be under jewish OT law.... Really? What skeletons you got hiding in your closet?😄
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Shunning
Jul 9, 2020 0:26:27 GMT -5
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Post by iam on Jul 9, 2020 0:26:27 GMT -5
Openingact will you quit being such a tare😄 Why the put down? What put down?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 0:29:08 GMT -5
not at all i am a pro israel person some would say even zionist. i just wouldn't want to be under jewish OT law.... Really? What skeletons you got hiding in your closet?😄 i had an older person non Christian tell me once that if we were under jewish law most of us would not live past 18...i somewhat agree with that
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Post by speak on Jul 9, 2020 0:29:09 GMT -5
Put downs are not common decency. Basic human decency is being polite, courteous, civil, thoughtful, and using tact and diplomacy when with others, thus treating them as you wish to be treated. So why are they used? Good question, speak I would like to ask you the same. And yes, I could certainly do a better job myself. I have asked my self many a time that question, it's seems to come the very essence of this board.
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Post by speak on Jul 9, 2020 0:30:03 GMT -5
A tare is an undesirable thing.
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