jimmy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by jimmy on Aug 4, 2020 8:13:27 GMT -5
Most of you seem to think it is ok for a peodophile to be allowed to go to meetings where there are no children. None seem to think they should be kicked out altogether. How do you feel about people with tv in their home being stopped from going to the meetings. Also people who are divorced, remarried, married an outsider or women who wear men's clothing, have short hair or wear make up and jewellery? All these people get kicked out very quickly and everyone thinks the workers have made the right decision. Can't lower the standard, right? But there is a different set of rules for peodophiles? I know historically the above has happened, hopefully less now. Priorities seem better than they were, but not perfect. But, if there are any workers reading here, we do not want to have a pedophile integrated into the church. If he (or she) can make peace with God well that is good, but our souls should not be put at risk by being expected to forgive the unforgivable.
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Post by chuck on Aug 4, 2020 9:23:36 GMT -5
Thanks Bob for highlighting the situation. Not a criticism, but maybe it should be in red. It is alarming, many legal people are scratching their heads wondering how it could happen. In the 60 minutes episode last night the victim Karen was quite angry that a suppression order has been put on in her case. When the perp was convicted last year a suppression order was placed on his name and the name of the Church. Karen said because her case is unrelated to the previous case, that order shouldn't be there.Legal people agree that the order was put there last year for the reason that the perp and his family could be in danger. But there is no evidence before the Court in Karen's case that this threat exists. Therefore without evidence before the Court, the order should not have been made. Think we will be hearing more about it. Who's funding the perps legal costs?
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Post by nathan on Aug 4, 2020 10:10:03 GMT -5
Do you think this was done casually and carelessly? I saw the workers spend countless hours deep in prayer. What was God telling them about these situations? Would overseer after overseer all coincidentally choose to defy the guidance of God? Clearly that is statistically improbable. Or were they following divine instructions? If God didn't lead them to report the offenders and protect children, is not God also an offender? I think it was done with arrogance. They were defying God, common courtesy, moral sensibility all to uphold an idea of infallibility. Catholic priests in cheap suits. In these cases, they give homage to the idol of autonomy first, then God second. Pharisees in word and action without the heart of a shepherd. A hireling as mentioned in John 10. Thanks, be to God... Things are improving and changing that most of the workers are on board now... NO tolerance of CSA within the Ministry or among the friends. The have made GREAT progress! In the past the overseers stone wall on dealing with CSA and there was NO Guideline whatsoever but NOW they have a stern guideline for all workers and overseers MUST follow and the that is REPORT ALL CSA to the authority. They should have done this 20 years when some of us 2x2 and some workers tried to WARN and EDUCATE them back in the year 2000 and through the years.... and one worker was put out of the ministry from down under.
Let us hope and pray the 2x2 ministry and the friends will NOT repeat the mistakes of the past on CSA again. Let us eradicate CSA around world by reporting the situations to the authority and let them handle it and NOT the workers ministry.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by plp on Aug 4, 2020 10:16:14 GMT -5
Most of you seem to think it is ok for a peodophile to be allowed to go to meetings where there are no children. None seem to think they should be kicked out altogether. How do you feel about people with tv in their home being stopped from going to the meetings. Also people who are divorced, remarried, married an outsider or women who wear men's clothing, have short hair or wear make up and jewellery? All these people get kicked out very quickly and everyone thinks the workers have made the right decision. Can't lower the standard, right? But there is a different set of rules for peodophiles? I know historically the above has happened, hopefully less now. Priorities seem better than they were, but not perfect. But, if there are any workers reading here, we do not want to have a pedophile integrated into the church. If he (or she) can make peace with God well that is good, but our souls should not be put at risk by being expected to forgive the unforgivable. Re the first paragraph, I think that sums it up well. Re the second paragraph, I understand what you feel but I know there are also plenty of people in the meetings who are perfectly happy to be in meetings with a pedophile and treat him as a brother as long as there is sufficient transparency around it and that safeguards are in place. No one who is uncomfortable with meeting with him or her, should ever be expected or pressured to do so. The church is often viewed as being exclusive without adding this as another reason for referring to it as such. Your post refers to the sin as unforgivable, and some (particularly victims and their families) will very understandably struggle with this, but is it in fact an unforgivable act? Is it a dreadful dreadful thing that can be forgiven or is it actually unpardonable? If it is not unpardonable then excommunication does not seem the correct approach unless the perpetrator is unrepentant. Please don't interpret this post as saying that I feel it is not understandable that people struggle with unforgiveness. It is most certainly very very understandable.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 4, 2020 13:58:47 GMT -5
I know historically the above has happened, hopefully less now. Priorities seem better than they were, but not perfect. But, if there are any workers reading here, we do not want to have a pedophile integrated into the church. If he (or she) can make peace with God well that is good, but our souls should not be put at risk by being expected to forgive the unforgivable. Re the first paragraph, I think that sums it up well. Re the second paragraph, I understand what you feel but I know there are also plenty of people in the meetings who are perfectly happy to be in meetings with a pedophile and treat him as a brother as long as there is sufficient transparency around it and that safeguards are in place. No one who is uncomfortable with meeting with him or her, should ever be expected or pressured to do so. The church is often viewed as being exclusive without adding this as another reason for referring to it as such. Your post refers to the sin as unforgivable, and some (particularly victims and their families) will very understandably struggle with this, but is it in fact an unforgivable act? Is it a dreadful dreadful thing that can be forgiven or is it actually unpardonable? If it is not unpardonable then excommunication does not seem the correct approach unless the perpetrator is unrepentant. Please don't interpret this post as saying that I feel it is not understandable that people struggle with unforgiveness. It is most certainly very very understandable. While I professed to be a Christian, I refused to believe that there was any unforgivable sin -- except for that holy spirit thing. But it NEVER NEVER required forgetting the safety of individuals. This has been one of matters that always distressed me with the attitudes of SO MANY believers on this principle. Though your sins be as scarlet, ......
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2020 14:03:23 GMT -5
Take the notion of a god out of these scenarios and the sin becomes a crime. Which is what it is and always ought to be dealt with by the courts.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2020 14:04:49 GMT -5
I think it was done with arrogance. They were defying God, common courtesy, moral sensibility all to uphold an idea of infallibility. Catholic priests in cheap suits. In these cases, they give homage to the idol of autonomy first, then God second. Pharisees in word and action without the heart of a shepherd. A hireling as mentioned in John 10. Thanks, be to God... Things are improving and changing that most of the workers are on board now... NO tolerance of CSA within the Ministry or among the friends. The have made GREAT progress! In the past the overseers stone wall on dealing with CSA and there was NO Guideline whatsoever but NOW they have a stern guideline for all workers and overseers MUST follow and the that is REPORT ALL CSA to the authority. They should have done this 20 years when some of us 2x2 and some workers tried to WARN and EDUCATE them back in the year 2000 and through the years.... and one worker was put out of the ministry from down under.
Let us hope and pray the 2x2 ministry and the friends will NOT repeat the mistakes of the past on CSA again. Let us eradicate CSA around world by reporting the situations to the authority and let them handle it and NOT the workers ministry.
Nathan, they probably took no notice of you back then just as people today give little credence if any to what you say. You blew your credibility many years ago.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 14:08:51 GMT -5
If somebody is imperfect in the "Perfect Way" throw them out. That is what you do with bad apples.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by plp on Aug 4, 2020 14:21:13 GMT -5
While I professed to be a Christian, I refused to believe that there was any unforgivable sin -- except for that holy spirit thing. But it NEVER NEVER required forgetting the safety of individuals. This has been one of matters that always distressed me with the attitudes of SO MANY believers on this principle. Though your sins be as scarlet, ...... I spent decades believing it was right and best to leave some sins (like CSA) covered up or pretty hushed up. Gave some very poor advice alongside it. Zero (or very little) thought for the victims of such sins. Not good. Hopefully some lessons have been learned somewhere.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by plp on Aug 4, 2020 14:23:57 GMT -5
If somebody is imperfect in the "Perfect Way" throw them out. That would be a double-quick way to reduce it to nothing!
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Post by nathan on Aug 4, 2020 14:30:40 GMT -5
Thanks, be to God... Things are improving and changing that most of the workers are on board now... NO tolerance of CSA within the Ministry or among the friends. The have made GREAT progress! In the past the overseers stone wall on dealing with CSA and there was NO Guideline whatsoever but NOW they have a stern guideline for all workers and overseers MUST follow and the that is REPORT ALL CSA to the authority. They should have done this 20 years when some of us 2x2 and some workers tried to WARN and EDUCATE them back in the year 2000 and through the years.... and one worker was put out of the ministry from down under. [img src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" alt="" class="smile"]
Let us hope and pray the 2x2 ministry and the friends will NOT repeat the mistakes of the past on CSA again. Let us eradicate CSA around world by reporting the situations to the authority and let them handle it and NOT the workers ministry.
Nathan, they probably took no notice of you back then just as people today give little credence if any to what you say. You blew your credibility many years ago. ** See what happened when they didn't take my/ours warning seriously on CSA 20 yrs ago! Just to think how many 1000s children of the friends lives have become victims because they IGNORED it. Trust me, history is repeating itself again... The overseers and workers better get their Godhead/Trinity; Jesus is God and His deity with a clearer understanding or the fellowship will sink like a Titanic ship! As a Cult group like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by plp on Aug 4, 2020 14:30:56 GMT -5
Take the notion of a god out of these scenarios and the sin becomes a crime. Which is what it is and always ought to be dealt with by the courts. Don't have to take God out of it. CSA is a crime and wherever possible should be dealt with by the courts.
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Post by fixit on Aug 4, 2020 15:52:16 GMT -5
Nathan, they probably took no notice of you back then just as people today give little credence if any to what you say. You blew your credibility many years ago. ** See what happened when they didn't take my/ours warning seriously on CSA 20 yrs ago! Just to think how many 1000s children of the friends lives have become victims because they IGNORED it. Trust me, history is repeating itself again... The overseers and workers better get their Godhead/Trinity; Jesus is God and His deity with a clearer understanding or the fellowship will sink like a Titanic ship! As a Cult group like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. Join the Catholic Church who invented trinitarian dogma then you won't have to worry about W&F.
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Post by nathan on Aug 4, 2020 16:10:27 GMT -5
** See what happened when they didn't take my/ours warning seriously on CSA 20 yrs ago! Just to think how many 1000s children of the friends lives have become victims because they IGNORED it. Trust me, history is repeating itself again... The overseers and workers better get their Godhead/Trinity; Jesus is God and His deity with a clearer understanding or the fellowship will sink like a Titanic ship! As a Cult group like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. Join the Catholic Church who invented trinitarian dogma then you won't have to worry about W&F. *** Friends and workers like you who are Anti-Trinity believers among us will TURN and MAKE us KNOWN as a Cult just like Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses for believing in false doctrines... The early church fathers coined the word TRINITY to describe the Godhead= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Svior and the Holy Spirit/God... And the RCC adopted or kept the early church fathers/1 and 2nd generation century apostles. The concept of the Godhead or the Trinity is taught from Genesis to Revelation. The RCC did NOT start the doctrine of the Trinity or Godhead, THEY have always exist before the foundation of the Universe. The early days 2x2 workers and the friends and through the years believed and taught the Trinity/Godhead. In 1950s the anti-Trinity became the overseers and senior workers within 2x2 ministry around the world and they taught the friends false doctrines Jesus is NOT God and the TRINITY is the RCC dogma in the 4th century. Therefore, majority of 2x2s became anti-Trinity believers lust like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2020 16:48:10 GMT -5
** See what happened when they didn't take my/ours warning seriously on CSA 20 yrs ago! Just to think how many 1000s children of the friends lives have become victims because they IGNORED it. Trust me, history is repeating itself again... The overseers and workers better get their Godhead/Trinity; Jesus is God and His deity with a clearer understanding or the fellowship will sink like a Titanic ship! As a Cult group like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. Join the Catholic Church who invented trinitarian dogma then you won't have to worry about W&F. He would also get to be a cross dresser when he puts on those robes the priests wear.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2020 16:50:57 GMT -5
Take the notion of a god out of these scenarios and the sin becomes a crime. Which is what it is and always ought to be dealt with by the courts. Don't have to take God out of it. CSA is a crime and wherever possible should be dealt with by the courts. I agree BUT, many of the friends and workers call it a sin and make inane comments such as god will take care of it or they will have to answer to god. There is no accountability in the here and now for them.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 16:53:44 GMT -5
Nathan , the guidelines are NOTHING . They are papers that you can burn . It’s like a restraining order . Nothing can be done until victim's are hurt again . Do you seriously think the offender would be thinking about some sheets of papers that they could use to start a fire 🔥 before hurting someone NFW . These people will reoffend until caught . Some even after getting caught . Sentencing must be longer and just put them in with all the offenders They will be taken out , because they are the lowest of all in a jail . There is a hierarchy in prison .
To the victims may you get the help you need . Try not to fall in the darkness . So sorry 😐 for all . It never leaves your mind unfortunately . The scars are hidden . But the pain is etched into and on our psyches . Under our scars we hide .
20 years ago , plus more , for the rest of time the world will be here this will continue .
Again I ask , how many CSA’s were present when the guidelines were set up ? ZERO PROBABLY . Cause no worker’s want to have that conversation . It’s called , Oh just let it be , they will be held accountable later . It is time to put offenders in many ways out for good from the truth . If I was told I was gonna pass away next week I would call out all my offenders names from a roof top . Go ahead sue my ass . Good luck 😉 I got nothing ! It will continue until the end of time . Shutting up now !!!!!!! Best for all on here .
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Post by nathan on Aug 4, 2020 18:07:23 GMT -5
Nathan , the guidelines are NOTHING . They are papers that you can burn . It’s like a restraining order . Nothing can be done until victim's are hurt again . Do you seriously think the offender would be thinking about some sheets of papers that they could use to start a fire 🔥 before hurting someone NFW . These people will reoffend until caught . Some even after getting caught . Sentencing must be longer and just put them in with all the offenders They will be taken out , because they are the lowest of all in a jail . There is a hierarchy in prison . To the victims may you get the help you need . Try not to fall in the darkness . So sorry 😐 for all . It never leaves your mind unfortunately . The scars are hidden . But the pain is etched into and on our psyches . Under our scars we hide . 20 years ago , plus more , for the rest of time the world will be here this will continue . Again I ask , how many CSA’s were present when the guidelines were set up ? ZERO PROBABLY . Cause no worker’s want to have that conversation . It’s called , Oh just let it be , they will be held accountable later . It is time to put offenders in many ways out for good from the truth . If I was told I was gonna pass away next week I would call out all my offenders names from a roof top . Go ahead sue my ass . Good luck 😉 I got nothing ! It will continue until the end of time . Shutting up now !!!!!!! Best for all on here . *** You are one of 1000s victims of the friends children that are out there around the the world, if the 2x2s overseers and workers had taken our warnings about CSA on TMB seriously 20 years ago. You and your family wouldn't be yelling at the top of your lungs today! The overseers and workers, the church elders and the friends better follow the 2x2 workers guideline on CSA or they will end up in prison for a long time and the prisoners will NOT appreciate the CSA enablers. They will have their fun with the 2x2s in prison.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 18:21:49 GMT -5
Hard core bullsh- ! Every 3 out of ten , don’t report it for fear . Ya may get kicked out for talking then what do you cling too? The pred keeps walking . To another state or province they go . Different part of the world . A piece of paper is not a method for them to stop . It’s a piece of paper and that is that . They repeat over and over and over .
Again how MANY CSA WERE INVITED TO CONTRIBUTE ? ZERO .
Money talks preds walk . I can guarantee you of that I have talked to many who have not told authorities So the math doesn’t match . Bribes Come on man , are you at the beach ?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 18:30:35 GMT -5
Over 50 years ago for me . What did I get ? Excommunicated !
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 18:31:55 GMT -5
Over 50 years ago for me . What did I get ? Excommunicated !
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2020 18:37:39 GMT -5
Nathan , the guidelines are NOTHING . They are papers that you can burn . It’s like a restraining order . Nothing can be done until victim's are hurt again . Do you seriously think the offender would be thinking about some sheets of papers that they could use to start a fire 🔥 before hurting someone NFW . These people will reoffend until caught . Some even after getting caught . Sentencing must be longer and just put them in with all the offenders They will be taken out , because they are the lowest of all in a jail . There is a hierarchy in prison . To the victims may you get the help you need . Try not to fall in the darkness . So sorry 😐 for all . It never leaves your mind unfortunately . The scars are hidden . But the pain is etched into and on our psyches . Under our scars we hide . 20 years ago , plus more , for the rest of time the world will be here this will continue . Again I ask , how many CSA’s were present when the guidelines were set up ? ZERO PROBABLY . Cause no worker’s want to have that conversation . It’s called , Oh just let it be , they will be held accountable later . It is time to put offenders in many ways out for good from the truth . If I was told I was gonna pass away next week I would call out all my offenders names from a roof top . Go ahead sue my ass . Good luck 😉 I got nothing ! It will continue until the end of time . Shutting up now !!!!!!! Best for all on here . *** You are one of 1000s victims of the friends children that are out there around the the world, if the 2x2s overseers and workers had taken our warnings about CSA on TMB seriously 20 years ago. You and your family wouldn't be yelling at the top of your lungs today! The overseers and workers, the church elders and the friends better follow the 2x2 workers guideline on CSA or they will end up in prison for a long time and the prisoners will NOT appreciate the CSA enablers. They will have their fun with the 2x2s I prison. As I have pointed out to you many times Nathan. Your warnings were not taken seriously because you are not taken seriously. You have a credibility issue and until you come to terms with that you will never be taken seriously.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 19:01:13 GMT -5
Further more , cybersex crime is huge . They all got iPads . That is being monitored . I can not tell you who . But it is across Canada 🇨🇦 and the USA 🇺🇸 Always watching . Put your iPad down cause it is a joint operation !
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 19:06:14 GMT -5
Believe me , I didn’t just wake up and say , Well time to take 2X2 preds down . There was a lot of thought 💭 and planning . Don’t make excuses . There is no excuse for this deviant behaviour . We also forgot human trafficking .
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 19:17:41 GMT -5
The ten commandments are quite clear, they start, THOU SHALT NOT. That means don't. It does not say it is OK to sin, repent, pray for forgiveness on Sunday and sin again on Monday.
The object always should be to stamp out sin (Crime), not provide means of condoning it.
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Post by joanna on Aug 4, 2020 19:32:56 GMT -5
plp There would be no CSA if there was a benevolent, omnipresent and omniscient god.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 19:38:18 GMT -5
Sorry Joanna Could you dumby that down . I don’t understand 😊
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Post by joanna on Aug 4, 2020 19:45:11 GMT -5
Hello 1chinesewhispersThe Christian god is described as being all-knowing (omniscient); ever-present (omnipresent) and kind and good (benevolent). Why are little children victims of CSA if this is true?
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