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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 21:49:30 GMT -5
“Hell is empty and all the devils are here.”
― William Shakespeare, The Tempest
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 25, 2020 19:13:50 GMT -5
UPDATE: 60 Minutes Australia is doing a followup tonight of its program aired last year.
The perp has been arrested again - another victim has come forward. Earlier, he was given a 20 yr suppression and non publication of his name
Link will be provided when available.
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 25, 2020 22:02:29 GMT -5
Thanks Cherie. Wonder if the State Elder will arrange a Forensic Psychologist with 2x2 followers donations to get his jail sentence suspended as was the case with Worker Ernie Barry?With a horrible 30 plus victims!! Magpie
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 26, 2020 13:17:49 GMT -5
Sorry - 60 Min has postponed the segment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 15:52:54 GMT -5
Unfortunate Cherie, some bigger issues took precedence. Mary Trump's book re Uncle Donald. That was scary, how did such a mad man get into the White House. We all need to be worried about that one.
The second wave of Covid has taken off in Australia, particualy in Victoria. Also increasing in NSW.
Anybody who watched 60 minutes last night would be feeling a little depressed this morning. The World is certainly facing big problems. Our vintage cannot complain we have probably lived in the best era during the period after World War 2, up until now. But you have to be concerned that the good times may be gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 17:38:28 GMT -5
Unfortunate Cherie, some bigger issues took precedence. Mary Trump's book re Uncle Donald. That was scary, how did such a mad man get into the White House. We all need to be worried about that one. The second wave of Covid has taken off in Australia, particualy in Victoria. Also increasing in NSW. Anybody who watched 60 minutes last night would be feeling a little depressed this morning. The World is certainly facing big problems. Our vintage cannot complain we have probably lived in the best era during the period after World War 2, up until now. But you have to be concerned that the good times may be gone. I'm oddly optimistic - mostly because I can pawn responsibility for producing "the Donald" on the generations my elder 😄. My hope is that we see the best parts of modern progressivism (racial/ gender/ orientation equality and equity) take root and mature into parts of our global culture. Culture (by definition - think 'cultivate') takes time and effort. May this be so.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 31, 2020 16:55:08 GMT -5
UPDATE: 60 Minutes is supposed to be running their story this Sunday 2nd August.
"The Truth Church" cannot be mentioned because of the suppression order.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 7:15:50 GMT -5
In 2017, Karen Simmons bravely decided it was time to speak about her ordeal as a victim of traumatic sexual abuse. She went to the police, and last year also told her harrowing story on 60 MINUTES, now there has been a significant development in the case. For three decades, Karen Simmons kept a terrible secret. As a young girl she was a victim of traumatic sexual abuse. In 2017, she bravely decided it was time to speak about her ordeal. She went to the police, and last year also told her harrowing story on 60 MINUTES. Now there has been a significant development in the case: Karen's alleged attacker has been charged with eleven counts of historic child sex abuse. But while this courageous woman feels relief, she is furious because a court has ordered the man's identity to be kept secret. Reporter: Tara Brown Producer: Laura Sparkes
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Aug 2, 2020 7:54:44 GMT -5
Redback,We both know how much the 2x2s are willing to pay with their followers donations to keep their inward hidden secret sins within the Bro/sister Ministers away from the greater population yet they think that they are the only sect that can save them. EG-The huge cost to get Ernie Barry's jail sentence suspended,yet amongst them 30+victims is gossiped,and 2x2s followers paid for it. They think their $ gifts is to further their Preacher only Sect,sad,to see so many so seperated from the full christian story and life,isn't it? Magpie
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Post by bfvernon on Aug 2, 2020 18:17:15 GMT -5
The defence of the above case is being paid for by the perpetrator’s brother. He is an ex worker and now a wealthy man. He’s so dyed in the wool about 2x2ism that he would believe that it’s the right thing to do. He’s also totally blind to the faults of his beloved little brother. Go figure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 19:27:12 GMT -5
Thanks BV for your post, it does shed light on why this guy is getting good legal representation. It does raise a question as to how destitute Workers leave, and become financially comfortable in a short time. In the light that a substantial Charity and Trust was closed in Victoria, you start to wonder. I think it is time that the 2x2,s come clean about there finances and have the same transparency to their members like other Churches.
Also because of the large prevalence of CSA within the 2x2's they are obliged to register in the National Redress Scheme. It would be the right moral thing to do.
You have to wonder why Catholic perpetrators have their names in all the media, a 2x2 gets a suppression order for 20 years. "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
I know we will get the old standard answer " God works in mysterious ways". They may be mysterious, but are they moral.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 2, 2020 19:50:53 GMT -5
Thanks BV for your post, it does shed light on why this guy is getting good legal representation. It does raise a question as to how destitute Workers leave, and become financially comfortable in a short time. In the light that a substantial Charity and Trust was closed in Victoria, you start to wonder. I think it is time that the 2x2,s come clean about there finances and have the same transparency to their members like other Churches. Also because of the large prevalence of CSA within the 2x2's they are obliged to register in the National Redress Scheme. It would be the right moral thing to do. You have to wonder why Catholic perpetrators have their names in all the media, a 2x2 gets a suppression order for 20 years. "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". I know we will get the old standard answer " God works in mysterious ways". They may be mysterious, but are they moral.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 20:07:22 GMT -5
Thanks Bob for highlighting the situation. Not a criticism, but maybe it should be in red. It is alarming, many legal people are scratching their heads wondering how it could happen. In the 60 minutes episode last night the victim Karen was quite angry that a suppression order has been put on in her case. When the perp was convicted last year a suppression order was placed on his name and the name of the Church. Karen said because her case is unrelated to the previous case, that order shouldn't be there.Legal people agree that the order was put there last year for the reason that the perp and his family could be in danger. But there is no evidence before the Court in Karen's case that this threat exists. Therefore without evidence before the Court, the order should not have been made. Think we will be hearing more about it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 21:24:29 GMT -5
This is the link to last nights 60 minutes, probably not able to be accessed outside Australia. Thought some Australian Workers might have time to take a look on their Laptops. It is the last story of 3. about 50 minutes into the episode. Plenty of adds, be patient. www.9now.com.au/60-minutes/2020/episode-26
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 2, 2020 22:46:20 GMT -5
Thanks Bob for highlighting the situation. Not a criticism, but maybe it should be in red. It is alarming, many legal people are scratching their heads wondering how it could happen. In the 60 minutes episode last night the victim Karen was quite angry that a suppression order has been put on in her case. When the perp was convicted last year a suppression order was placed on his name and the name of the Church. Karen said because her case is unrelated to the previous case, that order shouldn't be there.Legal people agree that the order was put there last year for the reason that the perp and his family could be in danger. But there is no evidence before the Court in Karen's case that this threat exists. Therefore without evidence before the Court, the order should not have been made. Think we will be hearing more about it. Hopefully Australia has anti-corruption investigators that are better supported than we are currently experiencing under the Trump administration. A deep and invasive investigation of that judge's finances and electronic devices is sorely needed.
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Aug 3, 2020 0:33:28 GMT -5
That link doesn't work in NZ so hopefully we can watch it soon through you tube.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 0:42:47 GMT -5
That link doesn't work in NZ so hopefully we can watch it soon through you tube.[/quote If it gets put on you tube will post the link. Then you can understand why the victim Karen, gets so upset about the suppression order.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 3, 2020 0:50:53 GMT -5
Thanks BV for your post, it does shed light on why this guy is getting good legal representation. It does raise a question as to how destitute Workers leave, and become financially comfortable in a short time. In the light that a substantial Charity and Trust was closed in Victoria, you start to wonder. I think it is time that the 2x2,s come clean about there finances and have the same transparency to their members like other Churches. Also because of the large prevalence of CSA within the 2x2's they are obliged to register in the National Redress Scheme. It would be the right moral thing to do. You have to wonder why Catholic perpetrators have their names in all the media, a 2x2 gets a suppression order for 20 years. "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". I know we will get the old standard answer " God works in mysterious ways". They may be mysterious, but are they moral. It is not only Denmark where something is rotten. Dubbo also has a rotten underbelly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 1:15:19 GMT -5
Obviously Curly you are privy to other information which to say the least is disconcerting. We need to take care that we don't find ourself on the wrong side of the law, but just make sure that the Workers are dealing with it. They should be excommunicating the perpetrators. None of this asking for forgiveness rubbish.
And the big question, how is the legal representation being bankrolled.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 3, 2020 1:25:11 GMT -5
Obviously Curly you are privy to other information which to say the least is disconcerting. We need to take care that we don't find ourself on the wrong side of the law, but just make sure that the Workers are dealing with it. They should be excommunicating the perpetrators. None of this asking for forgiveness rubbish. And the big question, how is the legal representation being bankrolled. My view is that the workers are not the ones to deal with it. It should be a police matter. That is being worked on as we speak from your side of the ditch. If it comes to fruition there will be major ructions and red faces by family and others who have been hiding the truth for a long time.
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plp
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Post by plp on Aug 3, 2020 1:46:23 GMT -5
They should be excommunicating the perpetrators. None of this asking for forgiveness rubbish. And the big question, how is the legal representation being bankrolled. If the perpetrator is repentant, excommunication is not a requirement. Putting sound safeguards in place is. Re bankrolling, a post higher up indicated that a family member was paying for legal representation. Sounds fair enough to me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 3, 2020 2:11:18 GMT -5
If the perpetrator is repentant, excommunication is not a requirement. Putting sound safeguards in place is. First problem is: Who determines whether the perpetrator is truly repentant? Second problem: Outside of law enforcement, no one has the authority or the wherewithal to establish and maintain safeguards. Most people who are not disposed to commit such crimes do not understand how it is that these people commit these crimes in the first place. The true predators are hardwired mentally to enjoy what they are doing, as do heterosexual adults enjoy their relationships. Repentance doesn't change one's basic nature, so these predators treatment quite beyond the scope of workers to address. This raises the question: Are there conditions that flat out disqualify one the privilege of entering in to fellowship/communion, like was the case in OT times with lame people, and the rest of the list?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 2:53:59 GMT -5
Bob you are right when you say "Who determines whether the perpetrator is truly repentant?". When we prayed in a meeting we would ask forgiveness for our sins. We never specified our sins, by saying we went to the pictures during the week, or had a drink with our Workmates at a Pub after work. I never ever heard anybody specify how they had sinned. Then in testimony you would try to sound sincere and say you wanted to be a better person in the future. No specification of past sins. And next week off to the pictures and Pub again, same meaningless words next Sunday. And like you said Bob you start to enjoy sinning, it becomes habit. You feel a bit timid at first and remorseful on Sunday, but after awhile you do not give it any thought. Big weakness in the whole scheme of things. Think Buddhists are doing it better trying for continuous improvement. Much better principle than forgiveness of sins.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 3, 2020 3:28:26 GMT -5
And as far as respecting one's repentance, I'm quite aware of situations where the most repentant of sinners is not believed by the gatekeeper. It's really a power trip for the clergy to think they can "handle" it. All they can logically do is preach the gospel and abide by the law, rather than bypass the law at their peril.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 3, 2020 3:56:22 GMT -5
And as far as respecting one's repentance, I'm quite aware of situations where the most repentant of sinners is not believed by the gatekeeper. It's really a power trip for the clergy to think they can "handle" it. All they can logically do is preach the gospel and abide by the law, rather than bypass the law at their peril. A lot of the problem stems from the belief in the gatekeepers. For many years the workers have ruled the roost and told victims who dared to complain that they would take care of it. That is only one of their lies. They were also fond of denigrating victims. It must be rather galling for them in the current climate that they face prosecution themselves if they do not report. I have a suspicion that the deregistration of charities is something to do with this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 4:31:21 GMT -5
They should be excommunicating the perpetrators. None of this asking for forgiveness rubbish. And the big question, how is the legal representation being bankrolled. If the perpetrator is repentant, excommunication is not a requirement. Putting sound safeguards in place is. Re bankrolling, a post higher up indicated that a family member was paying for legal representation. Sounds fair enough to me. Pip, thanks for quoting my post, as it seems to have disappeared off the thread. I never deleted it, it must be that wicked Witch. As Bob explained how can anybody confirm that a person is truly repentant. It may be only words that mean nothing. Sure it was posted that a relative is bankrolling the legal costs. Also mentioned was that person was once a Worker. It seems hypocrisy to me that a Worker can so called be destitute, leave the Work and fairly soon become financial. I have seen a number of cases of this happening. Do they get a bit of a leg up???. Good question, don't expect we will get an answer anytime soon.
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plp
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Post by plp on Aug 3, 2020 8:17:37 GMT -5
As Bob explained how can anybody confirm that a person is truly repentant. It may be only words that mean nothing. Sure it was posted that a relative is bankrolling the legal costs. Also mentioned was that person was once a Worker. It seems hypocrisy to me that a Worker can so called be destitute, leave the Work and fairly soon become financial. I have seen a number of cases of this happening. Do they get a bit of a leg up???. Good question, don't expect we will get an answer anytime soon. Absolutely. That's why it's important not to be shy about putting safeguards in. Excommunications take place on those rare occasions when there is clearly no repentance to sin. Re bankrolling legal costs: if a relative or friend wishes to pay that is their prerogative. It's their business alone. There is no problem when people leave the work, that others step in to help get them started whether by gift or loan. I'm sure some come out of the work and really struggle with little help coming their way, while others will have a number of people providing ready and substantial help. There will be no equality on this and never will be. The givers and receivers make their own choices on this. In the meantime, the rest of us are unlikely to get a full accurate picture of what is really going on in any particular case, unless we are close to the recipient.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 3, 2020 9:22:28 GMT -5
They should be excommunicating the perpetrators. None of this asking for forgiveness rubbish. And the big question, how is the legal representation being bankrolled. If the perpetrator is repentant, excommunication is not a requirement. Putting sound safeguards in place is. And where is the Biblical case for "safeguards"? If you want to follow Jesus, need to be ready to forgive the most heinous of crimes seventy times seven without hesitation.
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