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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Aug 4, 2020 19:54:09 GMT -5
Yes , why does it continue ! Agreed Thx đ
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Post by fixit on Aug 4, 2020 21:33:07 GMT -5
Take the notion of a god out of these scenarios and the sin becomes a crime. Which is what it is and always ought to be dealt with by the courts. Don't have to take God out of it. CSA is a crime and wherever possible should be dealt with by the courts. You can't take God out of it because God was never in it. CSA is a heinous crime up there with murder. Such evil can only be dealt with effectively by police and courts. Workers and friends should be properly educated on the matter in order to look out for it and support victims in any way they can. That would include encouraging victims to access support from secular authorities. In my experience workers and friends are woefully ignorant in these matters.
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Post by speak on Aug 4, 2020 22:10:21 GMT -5
Don't have to take God out of it. CSA is a crime and wherever possible should be dealt with by the courts. You can't take God out of it because God was never in it. CSA is a heinous crime up there with murder. Such evil can only be dealt with effectively by police and courts. Workers and friends should be properly educated on the matter in order to look out for it and support victims in any way they can. That would include encouraging victims to access support from secular authorities. In my experience workers and friends are woefully ignorant in these matters. I think most of the people in the world would be woefully ignorant in these matters. I don't ever remember anyone teaching me about it even though a victim myself it never entered my mind to the severity of it.
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Post by fixit on Aug 4, 2020 22:16:13 GMT -5
You can't take God out of it because God was never in it. CSA is a heinous crime up there with murder. Such evil can only be dealt with effectively by police and courts. Workers and friends should be properly educated on the matter in order to look out for it and support victims in any way they can. That would include encouraging victims to access support from secular authorities. In my experience workers and friends are woefully ignorant in these matters. I think most of the people in the world would be woefully ignorant in these matters. I don't ever remember anyone teaching me about it even though a victim myself it never entered my mind to the severity of it. Fair comment. During our lifetime Speak, much progress has been made on women's rights, children's rights, gay rights, race rights etc. CSA is getting there slowly, but its a hard one to deal with.
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Post by nathan on Aug 4, 2020 22:54:35 GMT -5
Hello 1chinesewhispers The Christian god is described as being all-knowing (omniscient); ever-present (omnipresent) and kind and good (benevolent). Why are little children victims of CSA if this is true? Children victims of CSA because there are EVIL men and women are out there! seek to destroy children through sexual exploitation and to gratify their lust and desires.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 4, 2020 23:05:40 GMT -5
Don't have to take God out of it. CSA is a crime and wherever possible should be dealt with by the courts. You can't take God out of it because God was never in it. CSA is a heinous crime up there with murder. Such evil can only be dealt with effectively by police and courts. Workers and friends should be properly educated on the matter in order to look out for it and support victims in any way they can. That would include encouraging victims to access support from secular authorities. In my experience workers and friends are woefully ignorant in these matters. The faithful friends and workers believe that God will guide them in all things. Ignorance is not just bliss, but the blessed way of Truth. As one hymn puts it: I need no book but Thine own word Nor can the thoughts of men afford A light to be my guide
Sam Jones went even more extreme: One in heart and mind and spiritGive Him absolute control.He will mold and make you perfect,Question not the Master's skill;Silence all your thoughts and reasoningsIn subjection to His will
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Post by fixit on Aug 4, 2020 23:18:44 GMT -5
You can't take God out of it because God was never in it. CSA is a heinous crime up there with murder. Such evil can only be dealt with effectively by police and courts. Workers and friends should be properly educated on the matter in order to look out for it and support victims in any way they can. That would include encouraging victims to access support from secular authorities. In my experience workers and friends are woefully ignorant in these matters. The faithful friends and workers believe that God will guide them in all things. Ignorance is not just bliss, but the blessed way of Truth. As one hymn puts it: I need no book but Thine own word Nor can the thoughts of men afford A light to be my guide
Sam Jones went even more extreme: One in heart and mind and spiritGive Him absolute control.He will mold and make you perfect,Question not the Master's skill;Silence all your thoughts and reasoningsIn subjection to His willNothing in those words condones covering up CSA.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 4, 2020 23:50:36 GMT -5
The faithful friends and workers believe that God will guide them in all things. Ignorance is not just bliss, but the blessed way of Truth. As one hymn puts it: I need no book but Thine own word Nor can the thoughts of men afford A light to be my guide
Sam Jones went even more extreme: One in heart and mind and spiritGive Him absolute control.He will mold and make you perfect,Question not the Master's skill;Silence all your thoughts and reasoningsIn subjection to His willNothing in those words condones covering up CSA. But it does, when God speaks through the lips of workers. This makes me think how people can sit side by side in meeting and sing such songs together, and they are so far apart in their individual hearts. It helps that their testimonies can also be heavily laden with figurative and negotiable language.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 5, 2020 0:03:22 GMT -5
The faithful friends and workers believe that God will guide them in all things. Ignorance is not just bliss, but the blessed way of Truth. As one hymn puts it: I need no book but Thine own word Nor can the thoughts of men afford A light to be my guide
Sam Jones went even more extreme: One in heart and mind and spiritGive Him absolute control.He will mold and make you perfect,Question not the Master's skill;Silence all your thoughts and reasoningsIn subjection to His willNothing in those words condones covering up CSA. Not explicitly, but it gets them brainlessly listening to whatever God tells them and rejecting any guidance from "the world". Now the question arises once again: Through innumerable hours of prayer over the last 120+ years, God has given detailed guidance about clothing, hairstyles, TVs, jewelry, avoiding sports and so on. What has been his response to the fervent prayers about how to handle CSA cases? The overwhelming outcome suggests that the heavenly direction has been: "cover it up and move the perp to another field"
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 5, 2020 0:12:54 GMT -5
Nothing in those words condones covering up CSA. Not explicitly, but it gets them brainlessly listening to whatever God tells them and rejecting any guidance from "the world". Now the question arises once again: Through innumerable hours of prayer over the last 120+ years, God has given detailed guidance about clothing, hairstyles, TVs, jewelry, avoiding sports and so on. What has been his response to the fervent prayers about how to handle CSA cases? The overwhelming outcome suggests that the heavenly direction has been: "cover it up and move the perp to another field" Every so often a little clue will slip out.
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 576
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Post by magpies39plus on Aug 5, 2020 1:45:21 GMT -5
Thanks BV for your post, it does shed light on why this guy is getting good legal representation. It does raise a question as to how destitute Workers leave, and become financially comfortable in a short time. In the light that a substantial Charity and Trust was closed in Victoria, you start to wonder. I think it is time that the 2x2,s come clean about there finances and have the same transparency to their members like other Churches. Also because of the large prevalence of CSA within the 2x2's they are obliged to register in the National Redress Scheme. It would be the right moral thing to do. You have to wonder why Catholic perpetrators have their names in all the media, a 2x2 gets a suppression order for 20 years. "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". I know we will get the old standard answer " God works in mysterious ways". They may be mysterious, but are they moral.
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 576
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Post by magpies39plus on Aug 5, 2020 1:47:06 GMT -5
Redback,Your input is spot on,Bless you Mate. Magie
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 5, 2020 2:00:54 GMT -5
Nothing in those words condones covering up CSA. Not explicitly, but it gets them brainlessly listening to whatever God tells them and rejecting any guidance from "the world". Now the question arises once again: Through innumerable hours of prayer over the last 120+ years, God has given detailed guidance about clothing, hairstyles, TVs, jewelry, avoiding sports and so on. What has been his response to the fervent prayers about how to handle CSA cases? The overwhelming outcome suggests that the heavenly direction has been: "cover it up and move the perp to another field" god has also given several updates on those issues. What was wrong with the original god's word on the matter?
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Post by fixit on Aug 5, 2020 14:14:52 GMT -5
Nothing in those words condones covering up CSA. But it does, when God speaks through the lips of workers. Rather, when workers are put in the place that is rightfully God's, becoming for some people a substitute for God. No spiritually-minded worker would want that.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 5, 2020 18:05:37 GMT -5
But it does, when God speaks through the lips of workers. Rather, when workers are put in the place that is rightfully God's, becoming for some people a substitute for God. No spiritually-minded worker would want that. Exactly, and well said - nailed it
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 5, 2020 21:53:23 GMT -5
But it does, when God speaks through the lips of workers. Rather, when workers are put in the place that is rightfully God's, becoming for some people a substitute for God. No spiritually-minded worker would want that. Precisely.
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Post by joanna on Aug 5, 2020 22:26:39 GMT -5
fixit. That implies that the Christian god is not omnipotent but can be dethroned by mere mortals. How and why would a benevolent and all-powerful god be usurped by humans?
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Post by chuck on Aug 5, 2020 22:52:32 GMT -5
fixit. That implies that the Christian god is not omnipotent but can be dethroned by mere mortals. How and why would a benevolent and all-powerful god be usurped by humans? It's called free will. The God you are describing is a image planted by religion, I have said to other's that openly do not believe in a God, but consistently use the image of God created by religion as a authority in their argument just as you are. The image you are painting is Zeus. If you begin to understand the historical arc of the scriptures and the Hebrew people you will see this image disappear in their progressive dynamic revelation of God and what God is and is not. My favourite example is this: He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?â declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVTo the poor and the needy would you agree that these actions are omnipotent?. A person freely giving regardless of the worth or unworthiness of the receiver with no thought of something in return. This is Grace. This is God. Not a puppet master Zeus pulling strings which then would be no longer Grace on behalf of the giver and no free will involved. Im unsure if you believe in God(Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh) but the image you are describing is like a Dictator in the clouds.
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Post by benar on Aug 6, 2020 8:41:31 GMT -5
fixit . That implies that the Christian god is not omnipotent but can be dethroned by mere mortals. How and why would a benevolent and all-powerful god be usurped by humans? It's called free will. The God you are describing is a image planted by religion, I have said to other's that openly do not believe in a God, but consistently use the image of God created by religion as a authority in their argument just as you are. The image you are painting is Zeus. If you begin to understand the historical arc of the scriptures and the Hebrew people you will see this image disappear in their progressive dynamic revelation of God and what God is and is not. My favourite example is this: He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?â declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVTo the poor and the needy would you agree that these actions are omnipotent?. A person freely giving regardless of the worth or unworthiness of the receiver with no thought of something in return. This is Grace. This is God. Not a puppet master Zeus pulling strings which then would be no longer Grace on behalf of the giver and no free will involved. Im unsure if you believe in God(Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh) but the image you are describing is like a Dictator in the clouds. Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy.
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Post by chuck on Aug 6, 2020 18:01:20 GMT -5
It's called free will. The God you are describing is a image planted by religion, I have said to other's that openly do not believe in a God, but consistently use the image of God created by religion as a authority in their argument just as you are. The image you are painting is Zeus. If you begin to understand the historical arc of the scriptures and the Hebrew people you will see this image disappear in their progressive dynamic revelation of God and what God is and is not. My favourite example is this: He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?â declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVTo the poor and the needy would you agree that these actions are omnipotent?. A person freely giving regardless of the worth or unworthiness of the receiver with no thought of something in return. This is Grace. This is God. Not a puppet master Zeus pulling strings which then would be no longer Grace on behalf of the giver and no free will involved. Im unsure if you believe in God(Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh) but the image you are describing is like a Dictator in the clouds. Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. I was correcting a fallacy. The predetermined idea of what a omnipotent God is or should be was inncorect.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 6, 2020 19:17:03 GMT -5
Rather, when workers are put in the place that is rightfully God's, becoming for some people a substitute for God. No spiritually-minded worker would want that. Precisely. Quite true.
But from my own personal experience what I observed was there is such a hierarchy of rank amongst the workers according to status & authority that no one of the workers lower than another in that hierarchy are allowed to make a judgement on their own!
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 6, 2020 20:49:47 GMT -5
Quite true.
But from my own personal experience what I observed was there is such a hierarchy of rank amongst the workers according to status & authority that no one of the workers lower than another in that hierarchy are allowed to make a judgement on their own!
That is ABSOLUTELY the case.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:02:31 GMT -5
With that pyramid organisation makes you wonder who the Grand Poobah is, and where he lives. It would have to be a he. They will probably say it is God, but God is neither he or she. Must be somebody here on earth. Nathan???.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 6, 2020 21:25:02 GMT -5
With that pyramid organisation makes you wonder who the Grand Poobah is, and where he lives. It would have to be a he. They will probably say it is God, but God is neither he or she. Must be somebody here on earth. Nathan???. It seems like the deputy poohbahs are sworn not to reveal which of them is thee poohbah.
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Post by benar on Aug 6, 2020 21:33:39 GMT -5
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. I was correcting a fallacy. The predetermined idea of what a omnipotent God is or should be was inncorect. The No True Scotsman Fallacy is that it appears you believe that only you have the correct interpretation of the Christian God, just as Nathan thinks he has the correct interpretation and maryhig thinks she has it correct.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 6, 2020 22:57:55 GMT -5
With that pyramid organisation makes you wonder who the Grand Poobah is, and where he lives. It would have to be a he. They will probably say it is God, but God is neither he or she. Must be somebody here on earth. Nathan???. Oh, please...., redback, -why do you want to torture us by giving Nathan another platform for driving us crazy?
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Post by chuck on Aug 6, 2020 23:08:55 GMT -5
I was correcting a fallacy. The predetermined idea of what a omnipotent God is or should be was inncorect. The No True Scotsman Fallacy is that it appears you believe that only you have the correct interpretation of the Christian God, just as Nathan thuinks he has the correct interpretation and maryhig thinks she has it correct. I don't believe Nathan or Maryhig were in the context of my comments. You inserted them in. From a Hebraic perspective tell me what was a fallacy.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 7, 2020 0:41:47 GMT -5
The No True Scotsman Fallacy is that it appears you believe that only you have the correct interpretation of the Christian God, just as Nathan thuinks he has the correct interpretation and maryhig thinks she has it correct. I don't believe Nathan or Maryhig were in the context of my comments. You inserted them in. No, Nathan or Maryhig wasn't mentioned by Chuck, -but don't you understand that it was a comparison between yourself and Nathan's and Maryhig's beliefs?
Just as you, -each of them seem to believe that they also " have the correct interpretation of the Christian God."
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