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Post by maryhig on Oct 31, 2024 20:47:48 GMT -5
That wooden cross is not the cross we are to glorify, we are to glorify the cross Jesus bore in his lifetime, the same cross we have to pick up when we deny ourselves and follow Jesus by living it out, that's how we truly glorify God and Christ. It's not the one that they murdered him on, and mocked him on by beating him and sticking thorns on his head. That's a horrible song! The Gospel message is the life, death and resurrection, not just the life. If you just want to follow the life of someone then there are plenty of good people to follow. Ghandi for example. The Cross is central to the gospel message because without the sheding of blood there would be no forgiveness of sin. It was the will of the Father for him to die like that. Satan did not fowl up God's plan of salvation, he fulfilled it. To believers it's the crown of glory, it symbolizes the price he paid to redeem mankind but to an unbeliever it is just a lot of thorns. No matter what they dressed him in, to believers he was still the king of king and Lord of Lord. We give thanks to him for all he went through. 1 Corinthians 11:26, “For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.” If I remember correctly that hymn, when I survey the wonderous cross was also in the earlier editions of the 2x2 hymn book. Not to this believer it isn't, to this believer Jesus's life and teachings are the central message of the gospel. Not the cross or his death. And it's not central to Jesus's gospel message either, because Jesus didn't even mention it! Not the way you all believe anyway. And he certainly never said that we have to believe in him dying on the cross to be saved, neither did he say if we don't believe in his death for salvation we will die in our sins. And what Jesus preached, is the gospel. |
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Post by maryhig on Oct 31, 2024 20:52:59 GMT -5
That wooden cross is not the cross we are to glorify, we are to glorify the cross Jesus bore in his lifetime, the same cross we have to pick up when we deny ourselves and follow Jesus by living it out, that's how we truly glorify God and Christ. It's not the one that they murdered him on, and mocked him on by beating him and sticking thorns on his head. That's a horrible song! The Cross is a reminder of what he suffered. The symbol of the empty cross shows he is risen. Wearing a gold/silver, even jewel encrusted cross is wrong, it's a Roman murder weapon and it's a symbol of death and murder. Not life. And to glorify it, is wrong. Jesus, the prince of peace was murdered on it, and according to Paul it was wrong to kill him. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. |
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Post by maryhig on Oct 31, 2024 21:02:44 GMT -5
If we don't have to bare our cross, why did Jesus say, that those not willing to take up their cross are not worthy of him? And that's ridiculous saying I'm making myself equal with Christ, no I'm not, I'm just not watering down the gospel so that I don't have to do anything saying that Jesus has paid the price and done it all for me. I don't know how many times I have to say that I couldn't do it without God, it's like you ignore that bit and keep saying stupid things like I'm trying to make myself equal with Christ, I have to try to deny the wrong in me and bare my cross and follow Jesus, I have faith in God and I know all things are possible with him, and I know he can help me to overcome. Where's your faith? Never mind saying we can't do it, yes we can, and by the strength of God and through Christ we can overcome. I'm living proof, because God has helped me to overcome a lot already, and I pray he helps me every day, and I know that if I live by his will and do as he pleases he will never leave me. I have complete faith in him. Also, people clearly do worship the cross, they wear them on their neck, kiss them, bow down to them etc. it's disgusting. It's a Roman murder weapon, and it was a sin before God to murder Jesus, and making happy clappy songs about it is wrong.
My point is that you can't do it with God's help because your already a sinner like everyone else. By believing that you can absolve yourself of sin, you are suggesting that the cross you bare is equal to Christ.
Its good to rely on God's help, strength, and guidance to help you overcome and be a better Christian. But that in itself doesn't save anyone, because it doesn't answer for sin.
The cross is just emblematic of what it represents, its a reminder of the price Jesus paid to rid us of our sins. People don't worship a wooden cross, they worship the one who hung and died on it.
We won't agree because you live in denial of the redemptive power of the cross, but no sinner can do it themselves. God certainly helps followers, but the remission of sin was something only God could answer for. We just can't blot-out sin ourselves. No matter how much effort and inspiration we have, sin was only erased after Jesus paid the price for it. Without his sacrifice, we are all guilty and condemned by the law.
I can't do it with God's help? Well you don't know the power of God then, because he's already helping me and my faith is strong in him. With God, anything is possible and I trust in him. And we should not be wilfully sinning, we should be trying to turn from sin, in our daily lives. 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. |
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Post by maryhig on Oct 31, 2024 21:09:24 GMT -5
Firstly, I'm not God so I don't know everything, but that was all interesting thanks for taking the time to write it all. I'm not great at science, but I know God exists. And I'm not that clever, I wasn't there at creation so only God can know all that. But what I do know, is we need light and water to make things grow, and they were there right from the beginning. God created the universe, not me, but what I do know is Genesis also has a deeper meaning, just the evening to the morning shows us it's different as we start morning to evening. But God creates and brings forth life from the darkness into the light, not the other way round. By the way, I won't be jumping off any high building, the devil tried that with Jesus but Jesus said "it is written, that you should not tempt the Lord thy God." And I wouldn't tempt God either, regardless of the law of gravity. To me the commandments of God come first before any law of man. That's the very reason I chose those examples. The existence of gravity is obvious. The absurd story in the bible about your Jesus declining to go jump off a mountain shows that even when the bible was written there was a lack of understanding by the writers about scientific principles despite the bible apparently being inspired by your God. It's interesting that later on in the gospels that more of the myth has your Jesus defying gravity by walking on water and ascending into the clouds. I try not to involve myself with the actual arguments on this thread regarding the trinity. Both your faith based beliefs and Nathan's faith based beliefs are simply different interpretations of the same myth. There is no need for me to read beyond Genesis one to come to a conclusion that the bible is a collection of preposterous myths. Here is a diagram of what Aristotle and then Ptolemy thought of the order of the cosmos. They were the leading philosophers in the civilizations around the Meditteranian during their day. The bible was written based on this earth centric model. Do you believe that this diagram is correct?  It wasn't a mountain that Jesus declined to jump off, it was the pinnacle of the temple. And I don't see it as a great big devil with horns climbing to the top of a building with Jesus and asking him to throw himself off either. I see it differently. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 31, 2024 21:13:56 GMT -5
The Cross is a reminder of what he suffered. The symbol of the empty cross shows he is risen. Wearing a gold/silver, even jewel encrusted cross is wrong, it's a Roman murder weapon and it's a symbol of death and murder. Not life. And to glorify it, is wrong. Jesus, the prince of peace was murdered on it, and according to Paul it was wrong to kill him. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. I disagree with your fundamentalist view on the wearing of cross.
Things and symbols change their meaning over time, particularly thousands of years. If my daughter wishes to wear a nice cross, to show an outward appearance of being a Christian, and that is how it is interpreted in our country, then that is an honourable thing to do.
I was in a house of some South Africans recently, and had no idea whether or not they were religious. He was a business colleague and we had been to the Rugby together. But when I went into the house, and saw a small Cross on the shelf by the fireplace, I knew that they were of Christian persuasion. It's not a big thing, but I don't mind it. What I don't like is someone saying it is wrong, because that is only an opinion based on a belief or interpretation.
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Post by maryhig on Oct 31, 2024 21:21:44 GMT -5
Wearing a gold/silver, even jewel encrusted cross is wrong, it's a Roman murder weapon and it's a symbol of death and murder. Not life. And to glorify it, is wrong. Jesus, the prince of peace was murdered on it, and according to Paul it was wrong to kill him. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. I disagree with your fundamentalist view on the wearing of cross.
Things and symbols change their meaning over time, particularly thousands of years. If my daughter wishes to wear a nice cross, to show an outward appearance of being a Christian, and that is how it is interpreted in our country, then that is an honourable thing to do.
I was in a house of some South Africans recently, and had no idea whether or not they were religious. He was a business colleague and we had been to the Rugby together. But when I went into the house, and saw a small Cross on the shelf by the fireplace, I knew that they were of Christian persuasion. It's not a big thing, but I don't mind it. What I don't like is someone saying it is wrong, because that is only an opinion based on a belief or interpretation.
Well that's up to you, but I think it's horrific and I wouldn't wear such a thing, and I wouldn't have it up in my house either. And to me, God didn't need to come here and be crucified to save us. That makes no sense whatsoever. Anyway it's the middle of the night here, I'm going back to sleep. Speak soon God willing. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 31, 2024 21:41:07 GMT -5
The Cross is a reminder of what he suffered. The symbol of the empty cross shows he is risen. Wearing a gold/silver, even jewel encrusted cross is wrong, it's a Roman murder weapon and it's a symbol of death and murder. Not life. And to glorify it, is wrong. Jesus, the prince of peace was murdered on it, and according to Paul it was wrong to kill him. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. This is your personal and own interpretation, you get the Preaching of the Cross and carrying wooden Cross people wearing around their necks mixed up. You get the spiritual and natural mixed up so, your interpretation doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jesus died a horrible Romans crucifixion death and tasted the Second death because of our sinful nature and spirits of disobedience against God and He can’t allow any mortal souls, without being born again to ENTER heaven after they died. The ONLY way for the mortal souls to ENTER heaven is to believe in Christ Jesus God/Man to die in our place the First and Second death to satisfy God’s the Father angry toward sins! of disobedience that Satan had ruined 1/3 of the fallen angels lives, destroying His home in heaven, and turned angels, his Immortals Children against him. |
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Post by Dan on Oct 31, 2024 23:46:22 GMT -5
My point is that you can't do it with God's help because your already a sinner like everyone else. By believing that you can absolve yourself of sin, you are suggesting that the cross you bare is equal to Christ.
Its good to rely on God's help, strength, and guidance to help you overcome and be a better Christian. But that in itself doesn't save anyone, because it doesn't answer for sin.
The cross is just emblematic of what it represents, its a reminder of the price Jesus paid to rid us of our sins. People don't worship a wooden cross, they worship the one who hung and died on it.
We won't agree because you live in denial of the redemptive power of the cross, but no sinner can do it themselves. God certainly helps followers, but the remission of sin was something only God could answer for. We just can't blot-out sin ourselves. No matter how much effort and inspiration we have, sin was only erased after Jesus paid the price for it. Without his sacrifice, we are all guilty and condemned by the law.
I can't do it with God's help? Well you don't know the power of God then, because he's already helping me and my faith is strong in him. With God, anything is possible and I trust in him. And we should not be wilfully sinning, we should be trying to turn from sin, in our daily lives. 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Assuming you've sinned since becoming a Christian, then no, God's help wasn't adequate was it? Its not a question of God's power, but our fragile human weakness. 'All have sinned", and all will continue to live in sin.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). That's the law, and since you've sinned, why would God make an exception in your case? One reason, "He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Hebrews 9:26).
God helping you do better does not negate what you've done bad. If you went bankrupt, God may help you avoid going bankrupt again, but that doesn't make your past debts disappear. Likewise, your debts (sins) don't just vanish into thin air because you repent, they were only wiped clean because someone paid the bill.
Of course Jesus was the bread of life, the living Word, and our example, but "The wages of sin is death" period. The life of Jesus didn't pay those wages, his death did.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 1, 2024 3:11:04 GMT -5
Wearing a gold/silver, even jewel encrusted cross is wrong, it's a Roman murder weapon and it's a symbol of death and murder. Not life. And to glorify it, is wrong. Jesus, the prince of peace was murdered on it, and according to Paul it was wrong to kill him. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. This is your personal and own interpretation, you get the Preaching of the Cross and carrying wooden Cross people wearing around their necks mixed up. You get the spiritual and natural mixed up so, your interpretation doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jesus died a horrible Romans crucifixion death and tasted the Second death because of our sinful nature and spirits of disobedience against God and He can’t allow any mortal souls, without being born again to ENTER heaven after they died. The ONLY way for the mortal souls to ENTER heaven is to believe in Christ Jesus God/Man to die in our place the First and Second death to satisfy God’s the Father angry toward sins! of disobedience that Satan had ruined 1/3 of the fallen angels lives, destroying His home in heaven, and turned angels, his Immortals Children against him. You need to look into a full length mirror before you accuse others of those things! |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 1, 2024 3:33:06 GMT -5
This is your personal and own interpretation, you get the Preaching of the Cross and carrying wooden Cross people wearing around their necks mixed up. You get the spiritual and natural mixed up so, your interpretation doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jesus died a horrible Romans crucifixion death and tasted the Second death because of our sinful nature and spirits of disobedience against God and He can’t allow any mortal souls, without being born again to ENTER heaven after they died. The ONLY way for the mortal souls to ENTER heaven is to believe in Christ Jesus God/Man to die in our place the First and Second death to satisfy God’s the Father angry toward sins! of disobedience that Satan had ruined 1/3 of the fallen angels lives, destroying His home in heaven, and turned angels, his Immortals Children against him. You need to look into a full length mirror before you accuse others of those things! I am telling the truth, most of the things I posted on TMB for over 24 years. You don’t have to believe it but it’s the Truth according to Jesus Christ gospel and teachings. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 1, 2024 3:34:02 GMT -5
This is your personal and own interpretation, you get the Preaching of the Cross and carrying wooden Cross people wearing around their necks mixed up. You get the spiritual and natural mixed up so, your interpretation doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jesus died a horrible Romans crucifixion death and tasted the Second death because of our sinful nature and spirits of disobedience against God and He can’t allow any mortal souls, without being born again to ENTER heaven after they died. The ONLY way for the mortal souls to ENTER heaven is to believe in Christ Jesus God/Man to die in our place the First and Second death to satisfy God’s the Father angry toward sins! of disobedience that Satan had ruined 1/3 of the fallen angels lives, destroying His home in heaven, and turned angels, his Immortals Children against him. You need to look into a full length mirror before you accuse others of those things! What have you got against mirrors? |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 1, 2024 3:35:53 GMT -5
I can't do it with God's help? Well you don't know the power of God then, because he's already helping me and my faith is strong in him. With God, anything is possible and I trust in him. And we should not be wilfully sinning, we should be trying to turn from sin, in our daily lives. 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Assuming you've sinned since becoming a Christian, then no, God's help wasn't adequate was it? Its not a question of God's power, but our fragile human weakness. 'All have sinned", and all will continue to live in sin.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). That's the law, and since you've sinned, why would God make an exception in your case? One reason, "He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Hebrews 9:26).
God helping you do better does not negate what you've done bad. If you went bankrupt, God may help you avoid going bankrupt again, but that doesn't make your past debts disappear. Likewise, your debts (sins) don't just vanish into thin air because you repent, they were only wiped clean because someone paid the bill.
Of course Jesus was the bread of life, the living Word, and our example, but "The wages of sin is death" period. The life of Jesus didn't pay those wages, his death did.
I don't know why you keep saying the wages of sin is death, because I know that, and that is exactly what I mean. If we carry on sinning then we will be separated from God, dead to him. That's what the wages of sin is death means. By the way, I think you need to read all of Romans 6 to get the context of the meaning of the verse regarding the wages of sin is death. In Romans 6 Paul is telling those who belong to God and doing wrong before him, to turn away from what they are doing. And at the end of the chapter he says that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. Paul is clearly telling them that if they carry on wilfully sinning, they will be separated from God, (dead to him.) Here's some more of Romans 6, Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; WHETHER SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. As for Hebrews 9:26 Paul is speaking about Jesus being a living sacrifice, how can you not see that Jesus didn't just sacrifice his life when he died naturally? But rather he sacrificed his whole life, and denied himself to live by the will of God? Can't you see that? And can I ask you something please and can you just give simple basic answers? Thank you Do you still wilfully sin if you know what you are doing is wrong before God? And what do you believe eternal life means? |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 1, 2024 3:45:47 GMT -5
You need to look into a full length mirror before you accuse others of those things! I am telling the truth, most of the things I posted on TMB for over 24 years. You don’t have to believe it but it’s the Truth according to Jesus Christ gospel and teachings. I don't care how long you've posted what you say on TMB, you are wrong! And you keep saying that what you say is the truth according to Jesus Christ's gospel and teachings, but how can I say this any clearer. Jesus didn't preach what you say, nothing....zilch. So I don't have to believe it, and I certainly don't have to believe it to be saved as you keep saying, because again, Jesus didn't say it anywhere in the gospel he preached!! And before you go on and on at me again, please don't bother unless you can show me Jesus teaching what you are saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, as this is where he preached the gospel. His gospel is the gospel. |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 1, 2024 3:47:50 GMT -5
You need to look into a full length mirror before you accuse others of those things! What have you got against mirrors? I wish they had a laughing emoji under posts and not just a like one, that's funny! 😄 |
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 1, 2024 3:52:48 GMT -5
I am telling the truth, most of the things I posted on TMB for over 24 years. You don’t have to believe it but it’s the Truth according to Jesus Christ gospel and teachings. I don't care how long you've posted what you say on TMB, you are wrong! And you keep saying that what you say is the truth according to Jesus Christ's gospel and teachings, but how can I say this any clearer. Jesus didn't preach what you say, nothing....zilch. So I don't have to believe it, and I certainly don't have to believe it to be saved as you keep saying, because again, Jesus didn't say it anywhere in the gospel he preached!! And before you go on and on at me again, please don't bother unless you can show me Jesus teaching what you are saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, as this is where he preached the gospel. His gospel is the gospel. I already posted MANY of these verses in the gospels, the book of Acts, Hebrews, the epistles of Paul and Peter. The Old Testament in Genesis 3:15, Ps, Isa 53 and so on. Dan, Mountain, Wally, Mary, SharonW, Dennis J and a bunch of others did the same but you are too BLIND to see it and Willfully NOT to believe it like the Pharisees. |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 1, 2024 4:02:24 GMT -5
I don't care how long you've posted what you say on TMB, you are wrong! And you keep saying that what you say is the truth according to Jesus Christ's gospel and teachings, but how can I say this any clearer. Jesus didn't preach what you say, nothing....zilch. So I don't have to believe it, and I certainly don't have to believe it to be saved as you keep saying, because again, Jesus didn't say it anywhere in the gospel he preached!! And before you go on and on at me again, please don't bother unless you can show me Jesus teaching what you are saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, as this is where he preached the gospel. His gospel is the gospel. I already posted MANY of these verses in the gospels, the book of Acts, Hebrews, the epistles of Paul and Peter. The Old Testament in Genesis 3:15, Ps, Isa 53 and so on. Dan, Mountain, Wally, Mary, SharonW, Dennis J and a bunch of others did the same but you are too BLIND to see it and Willfully NOT to believe it like the Pharisees. I'm asking you to post them from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as that's where Jesus preached his gospel. Nowhere else but there, if it's not there, then I don't have to believe it the way you say it. And can you copy and paste the whole verse please, and only from the above chapters that I've mentioned? Thanks Also I don't care if a million of you tell me what you believe, it's not the truth. Unless Jesus himself preached it, then I don't have to believe it, especially to be saved. You are death mad, you never talk about the life of Jesus you're obsessed! |
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 1, 2024 4:48:27 GMT -5
I already posted MANY of these verses in the gospels, the book of Acts, Hebrews, the epistles of Paul and Peter. The Old Testament in Genesis 3:15, Ps, Isa 53 and so on. Dan, Mountain, Wally, Mary, SharonW, Dennis J and a bunch of others did the same but you are too BLIND to see it and Willfully NOT to believe it like the Pharisees. I'm asking you to post them from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as that's where Jesus preached his gospel. Nowhere else but there, if it's not there, then I don't have to believe it the way you say it. And can you copy and paste the whole verse please, and only from the above chapters that I've mentioned? Thanks Also I don't care if a million of you tell me what you believe, it's not the truth. Unless Jesus himself preached it, then I don't have to believe it, especially to be saved. You are death mad, you never talk about the life of Jesus you're obsessed! 👎🙄🥱😴 |
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Post by Annan on Nov 1, 2024 7:52:13 GMT -5
I'm asking you to post them from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as that's where Jesus preached his gospel. Nowhere else but there, if it's not there, then I don't have to believe it the way you say it. And can you copy and paste the whole verse please, and only from the above chapters that I've mentioned? Thanks Also I don't care if a million of you tell me what you believe, it's not the truth. Unless Jesus himself preached it, then I don't have to believe it, especially to be saved. You are death mad, you never talk about the life of Jesus you're obsessed! 👎🙄🥱😴 Natie concedes again. He posts his silly emoticons when he can't answer. |
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Post by Mary on Nov 1, 2024 14:38:46 GMT -5
I already posted MANY of these verses in the gospels, the book of Acts, Hebrews, the epistles of Paul and Peter. The Old Testament in Genesis 3:15, Ps, Isa 53 and so on. Dan, Mountain, Wally, Mary, SharonW, Dennis J and a bunch of others did the same but you are too BLIND to see it and Willfully NOT to believe it like the Pharisees. I'm asking you to post them from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as that's where Jesus preached his gospel. Nowhere else but there, if it's not there, then I don't have to believe it the way you say it. And can you copy and paste the whole verse please, and only from the above chapters that I've mentioned? Thanks Also I don't care if a million of you tell me what you believe, it's not the truth. Unless Jesus himself preached it, then I don't have to believe it, especially to be saved. You are death mad, you never talk about the life of Jesus you're obsessed! People show you plenty of places but you ignore them. Matt 26 v 26 - 29 During the meal, Jesus took and blessed the bread, broke it, and gave it to his disciples: Take, eat. This is my body. Taking the cup and thanking God, he gave it to them: Drink this, all of you. This is my blood, God’s new covenant poured out for many people for the forgiveness of sins. “I’ll not be drinking wine from this cup again until that new day when I’ll drink with you in the kingdom of my Father.” They sang a hymn and went directly to Mount Olives. Luke 22 v 19. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. No need to twist the words to fit in with your theology. This was about his upcoming death on the Cross. A testament can only come into place after the death of the testator. The new testament came into effect after his death. |
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Post by Dan on Nov 1, 2024 14:43:31 GMT -5
Assuming you've sinned since becoming a Christian, then no, God's help wasn't adequate was it? Its not a question of God's power, but our fragile human weakness. 'All have sinned", and all will continue to live in sin.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). That's the law, and since you've sinned, why would God make an exception in your case? One reason, "He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Hebrews 9:26).
God helping you do better does not negate what you've done bad. If you went bankrupt, God may help you avoid going bankrupt again, but that doesn't make your past debts disappear. Likewise, your debts (sins) don't just vanish into thin air because you repent, they were only wiped clean because someone paid the bill.
Of course Jesus was the bread of life, the living Word, and our example, but "The wages of sin is death" period. The life of Jesus didn't pay those wages, his death did.
I don't know why you keep saying the wages of sin is death, because I know that, and that is exactly what I mean. If we carry on sinning then we will be separated from God, dead to him. That's what the wages of sin is death means. By the way, I think you need to read all of Romans 6 to get the context of the meaning of the verse regarding the wages of sin is death. In Romans 6 Paul is telling those who belong to God and doing wrong before him, to turn away from what they are doing. And at the end of the chapter he says that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. Paul is clearly telling them that if they carry on wilfully sinning, they will be separated from God, (dead to him.) Here's some more of Romans 6, Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; WHETHER SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. As for Hebrews 9:26 Paul is speaking about Jesus being a living sacrifice, how can you not see that Jesus didn't just sacrifice his life when he died naturally? But rather he sacrificed his whole life, and denied himself to live by the will of God? Can't you see that? And can I ask you something please and can you just give simple basic answers? Thank you Do you still wilfully sin if you know what you are doing is wrong before God? And what do you believe eternal life means?
I keep saying "The wages of sin is death" because you have sinned and haven't explained why or how you intend to escape the punishment for your sins. Everyone carries on sinning, and even if you do much better and seldom sin, it still doesn't exempt you from past sins. We are all dead in sin, but were made alive in Christ because he answered for our sins, he died so we could live.
Everyone willfully sins to some degree, if you know something is wrong and yield to temptation, you are willfully sinning. I believe Paul was referring to hypocrites or people who know the Truth but just don't care.
Eternal life is just that, its a never ending existence. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).
"You hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins... Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved" (Ephesians 2: 1&5).
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2024 12:35:04 GMT -5
I'm asking you to post them from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John as that's where Jesus preached his gospel. Nowhere else but there, if it's not there, then I don't have to believe it the way you say it. And can you copy and paste the whole verse please, and only from the above chapters that I've mentioned? Thanks Also I don't care if a million of you tell me what you believe, it's not the truth. Unless Jesus himself preached it, then I don't have to believe it, especially to be saved. You are death mad, you never talk about the life of Jesus you're obsessed! People show you plenty of places but you ignore them. Matt 26 v 26 - 29 During the meal, Jesus took and blessed the bread, broke it, and gave it to his disciples: Take, eat. This is my body. Taking the cup and thanking God, he gave it to them: Drink this, all of you. This is my blood, God’s new covenant poured out for many people for the forgiveness of sins. “I’ll not be drinking wine from this cup again until that new day when I’ll drink with you in the kingdom of my Father.” They sang a hymn and went directly to Mount Olives. Luke 22 v 19. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. No need to twist the words to fit in with your theology. This was about his upcoming death on the Cross. A testament can only come into place after the death of the testator. The new testament came into effect after his death. If you want to believe that then so be it, I don't agree with you as to what those verses mean. As Jesus clearly says do it in remembrance of him, not his death on the cross. Also, they still don't say what I asked, I asked where Jesus himself says that we have to believe in him dying on the cross or we're not saved, or that if we don't we will die in our sins? I've never seen Jesus himself say that, and that's my point, his gospel is the gospel. But here's something Jesus did say John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? No death needed! |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2024 12:59:23 GMT -5
I don't know why you keep saying the wages of sin is death, because I know that, and that is exactly what I mean. If we carry on sinning then we will be separated from God, dead to him. That's what the wages of sin is death means. By the way, I think you need to read all of Romans 6 to get the context of the meaning of the verse regarding the wages of sin is death. In Romans 6 Paul is telling those who belong to God and doing wrong before him, to turn away from what they are doing. And at the end of the chapter he says that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. Paul is clearly telling them that if they carry on wilfully sinning, they will be separated from God, (dead to him.) Here's some more of Romans 6, Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; WHETHER SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. As for Hebrews 9:26 Paul is speaking about Jesus being a living sacrifice, how can you not see that Jesus didn't just sacrifice his life when he died naturally? But rather he sacrificed his whole life, and denied himself to live by the will of God? Can't you see that? And can I ask you something please and can you just give simple basic answers? Thank you Do you still wilfully sin if you know what you are doing is wrong before God? And what do you believe eternal life means?
I keep saying "The wages of sin is death" because you have sinned and haven't explained why or how you intend to escape the punishment for your sins. Everyone carries on sinning, and even if you do much better and seldom sin, it still doesn't exempt you from past sins. We are all dead in sin, but were made alive in Christ because he answered for our sins, he died so we could live.
Everyone willfully sins to some degree, if you know something is wrong and yield to temptation, you are willfully sinning. I believe Paul was referring to hypocrites or people who know the Truth but just don't care.
Eternal life is just that, its a never ending existence. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).
"You hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins... Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved" (Ephesians 2: 1&5).
Everyone wilfully sins to some degree? How far would you go? Just wondering? To me eternal life in the here and now is the spirit within bringing us from death to life, and it is the spirit who is eternal. We are to endure to the end to be saved and receive eternal life with God, we aren't eternally saved yet. 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. And God has forgiven me the sins I did in the past, when I was in ignorance and then repented, I believe now I have to turn from sin and do what's right before God. And if I keep on wilfully sinning, then I will suffer for doing so. (Which is something I have experienced.) But without God, I couldn't overcome sin, Satan is too strong for me and the things I love in the flesh have a big pull on me and he knows how to draw me in. But as we said in our meeting today, if the ship has an anchor then it isn't moving, without one it will drift away. And God is my anchor to keep me from veering off course. |
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Post by Dan on Nov 3, 2024 21:49:44 GMT -5
I keep saying "The wages of sin is death" because you have sinned and haven't explained why or how you intend to escape the punishment for your sins. Everyone carries on sinning, and even if you do much better and seldom sin, it still doesn't exempt you from past sins. We are all dead in sin, but were made alive in Christ because he answered for our sins, he died so we could live.
Everyone willfully sins to some degree, if you know something is wrong and yield to temptation, you are willfully sinning. I believe Paul was referring to hypocrites or people who know the Truth but just don't care.
Eternal life is just that, its a never ending existence. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).
"You hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins... Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved" (Ephesians 2: 1&5).
Everyone wilfully sins to some degree? How far would you go? Just wondering? To me eternal life in the here and now is the spirit within bringing us from death to life, and it is the spirit who is eternal. We are to endure to the end to be saved and receive eternal life with God, we aren't eternally saved yet. 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. And God has forgiven me the sins I did in the past, when I was in ignorance and then repented, I believe now I have to turn from sin and do what's right before God. And if I keep on wilfully sinning, then I will suffer for doing so. (Which is something I have experienced.) But without God, I couldn't overcome sin, Satan is too strong for me and the things I love in the flesh have a big pull on me and he knows how to draw me in. But as we said in our meeting today, if the ship has an anchor then it isn't moving, without one it will drift away. And God is my anchor to keep me from veering off course.
Willful sin is not having a conscious about it, not repenting or feeling guilty for indulging in sin. Its doing whatever you please without restriction, surrendering to self-will while ignoring all spiritual guidance.
I believe your spiritually saved when you endorse and uphold John 3:16.. Of course that includes trying to be obedient to what you profess to believe.
Forgiveness is different from atonement, God will forgive sin, but only Jesus blotted it out by paying the price/penalty for it.
Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Prior to that, only the High Priest could offer up prayers for atonement, but then "The veil in the temple was rent in twain" (Matthew 27:51). We were all purified when Jesus died, the veil separating us from the Holy of Hollies was opened when Jesus became our High Priest. We were only made worthy because we were sanctified and washed clean of sin in the Lambs blood. The law was satisfied and now there's "One Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" (Hebrews 6:19-20).
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 4, 2024 0:13:49 GMT -5
Everyone wilfully sins to some degree? How far would you go? Just wondering? To me eternal life in the here and now is the spirit within bringing us from death to life, and it is the spirit who is eternal. We are to endure to the end to be saved and receive eternal life with God, we aren't eternally saved yet. 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. And God has forgiven me the sins I did in the past, when I was in ignorance and then repented, I believe now I have to turn from sin and do what's right before God. And if I keep on wilfully sinning, then I will suffer for doing so. (Which is something I have experienced.) But without God, I couldn't overcome sin, Satan is too strong for me and the things I love in the flesh have a big pull on me and he knows how to draw me in. But as we said in our meeting today, if the ship has an anchor then it isn't moving, without one it will drift away. And God is my anchor to keep me from veering off course. Willful sin is not having a conscious about it, not repenting or feeling guilty for indulging in sin. Its doing whatever you please without restriction, surrendering to self-will while ignoring all spiritual guidance. I believe your spiritually saved when you endorse and uphold John 3:16.. Of course that includes trying to be obedient to what you profess to believe. Forgiveness is different from atonement, God will forgive sin, but only Jesus blotted it out by paying the price/penalty for it.
Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Prior to that, only the High Priest could offer up prayers for atonement, but then "The veil in the temple was rent in twain" (Matthew 27:51). We were all purified when Jesus died, the veil separating us from the Holy of Hollies was opened when Jesus became our High Priest. We were only made worthy because we were sanctified and washed clean of sin in the Lambs blood. The law was satisfied and now there's "One Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" (Hebrews 6:19-20).
Looks like the Grand Canyon - toll gate on the way across. |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 4, 2024 0:35:57 GMT -5
Everyone wilfully sins to some degree? How far would you go? Just wondering? To me eternal life in the here and now is the spirit within bringing us from death to life, and it is the spirit who is eternal. We are to endure to the end to be saved and receive eternal life with God, we aren't eternally saved yet. 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. And God has forgiven me the sins I did in the past, when I was in ignorance and then repented, I believe now I have to turn from sin and do what's right before God. And if I keep on wilfully sinning, then I will suffer for doing so. (Which is something I have experienced.) But without God, I couldn't overcome sin, Satan is too strong for me and the things I love in the flesh have a big pull on me and he knows how to draw me in. But as we said in our meeting today, if the ship has an anchor then it isn't moving, without one it will drift away. And God is my anchor to keep me from veering off course.
Willful sin is not having a conscious about it, not repenting or feeling guilty for indulging in sin. Its doing whatever you please without restriction, surrendering to self-will while ignoring all spiritual guidance.
I believe your spiritually saved when you endorse and uphold John 3:16.. Of course that includes trying to be obedient to what you profess to believe.
Forgiveness is different from atonement, God will forgive sin, but only Jesus blotted it out by paying the price/penalty for it.
Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Prior to that, only the High Priest could offer up prayers for atonement, but then "The veil in the temple was rent in twain" (Matthew 27:51). We were all purified when Jesus died, the veil separating us from the Holy of Hollies was opened when Jesus became our High Priest. We were only made worthy because we were sanctified and washed clean of sin in the Lambs blood. The law was satisfied and now there's "One Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" (Hebrews 6:19-20).
Maryh, is on a different plain/level in understanding the Cross, which Jesus and the apostles have taught! She skipped the door/Jesus to enter through Calvary’s Cross, she just climbed inside to heaven through the widow, no need to go through the Cross/the main door, just by pass it, is NOT necessary step to believe it, not big of a deal, really. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 4, 2024 1:38:34 GMT -5
Willful sin is not having a conscious about it, not repenting or feeling guilty for indulging in sin. Its doing whatever you please without restriction, surrendering to self-will while ignoring all spiritual guidance. I believe your spiritually saved when you endorse and uphold John 3:16.. Of course that includes trying to be obedient to what you profess to believe. Forgiveness is different from atonement, God will forgive sin, but only Jesus blotted it out by paying the price/penalty for it.
Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Prior to that, only the High Priest could offer up prayers for atonement, but then "The veil in the temple was rent in twain" (Matthew 27:51). We were all purified when Jesus died, the veil separating us from the Holy of Hollies was opened when Jesus became our High Priest. We were only made worthy because we were sanctified and washed clean of sin in the Lambs blood. The law was satisfied and now there's "One Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" (Hebrews 6:19-20).
Maryh, is on a different plain/level in understanding the Cross, which Jesus and the apostles have taught! She skipped the door/Jesus to enter through Calvary’s Cross, she just climbed inside to heaven through the widow, no need to go through the Cross/the main door, just by pass it, is NOT necessary step to believe it, not big of a deal, really. In other words, she's not as good as you. Right? |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 4, 2024 2:57:48 GMT -5
Maryh, is on a different plain/level in understanding the Cross, which Jesus and the apostles have taught! She skipped the door/Jesus to enter through Calvary’s Cross, she just climbed inside to heaven through the widow, no need to go through the Cross/the main door, just by pass it, is NOT necessary step to believe it, not big of a deal, really. In other words, she's not as good as you. Right? 🙄 I Don't want to waste my time and energy with you.🥱 |
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Post by maryhig on Nov 4, 2024 5:13:36 GMT -5
Everyone wilfully sins to some degree? How far would you go? Just wondering? To me eternal life in the here and now is the spirit within bringing us from death to life, and it is the spirit who is eternal. We are to endure to the end to be saved and receive eternal life with God, we aren't eternally saved yet. 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. And God has forgiven me the sins I did in the past, when I was in ignorance and then repented, I believe now I have to turn from sin and do what's right before God. And if I keep on wilfully sinning, then I will suffer for doing so. (Which is something I have experienced.) But without God, I couldn't overcome sin, Satan is too strong for me and the things I love in the flesh have a big pull on me and he knows how to draw me in. But as we said in our meeting today, if the ship has an anchor then it isn't moving, without one it will drift away. And God is my anchor to keep me from veering off course.
Willful sin is not having a conscious about it, not repenting or feeling guilty for indulging in sin. Its doing whatever you please without restriction, surrendering to self-will while ignoring all spiritual guidance.
I believe your spiritually saved when you endorse and uphold John 3:16.. Of course that includes trying to be obedient to what you profess to believe.
Forgiveness is different from atonement, God will forgive sin, but only Jesus blotted it out by paying the price/penalty for it.
Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Prior to that, only the High Priest could offer up prayers for atonement, but then "The veil in the temple was rent in twain" (Matthew 27:51). We were all purified when Jesus died, the veil separating us from the Holy of Hollies was opened when Jesus became our High Priest. We were only made worthy because we were sanctified and washed clean of sin in the Lambs blood. The law was satisfied and now there's "One Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" (Hebrews 6:19-20).
So you are wilfully sinning when you have no conscience, but we were all purified when Jesus died? That makes no sense. You can be purified by the death of Jesus and still be wilfully sinning even if you don't have a conscience? That's the total opposite of true salvation, once we are being saved we should have a very strong conscience holding us back from wilfully sinning. If we're made pure by Jesus being murdered, then how can we wilfully sin, as Jesus has made us pure by dying? And what what are the consequences of continually wilfully sinning? Nothing? Seeing as you're made pure by the death of Jesus? It all makes no sense. Wilful sinning is when you have a conscience, and you know it's wrong especially before God and you still do it anyway. Once we truly know and belong to God we should be finding near impossible to wilfully sin as our conscience should be so strong. You also say that we are spiritually saved once we endorse and uphold John 3:16, but in other posts you say we must believe in the death of Jesus at Calvary to be saved? So which one is it? Also, coming to the father through Christ Jesus isn't by Jesus being murdered on the cross, it's by the word of God that Jesus preached, when we heard and obeyed and then received the spirit who helps cleanse our hearts and helps us to overcome sin. God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (in his lifetime) ..... No death needed, we are saved by his life. 2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be SPOKEN BY THE LORD, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: |
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