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Post by rational on Aug 28, 2019 13:22:11 GMT -5
Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why? As to God? He doesn’t need “the accuser of the brethren” trying to belittle or make little of God’s Son’s sacrifice. As to Satan,? He’s still pitched off at God for taking his heavenly powers from him and kicking him out of heaven. Actually it’s Satan who’s being infantile but not proceeding in infantile manner. And if, in this story, one of them were to win what would that look like? What is winning for an omnipotent omniscient being? According to the myth, the outcome is known from the beginning. There is no point to the conflict. Just like school children on the playground. Or actors written into a high school play. Written by high school students.
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 13:28:30 GMT -5
Nathan, I'm absolutely sure that any angels, Lucifer and 1/3 of the ones that rebelled also knew they couldn't win so why wouldn't what you just wrote apply to them also? ** Lucifer thought he could win against God if he had MANY angels, who supported and believe in him and stand by his side to fight against God. Well, they found out they were no match to fight against the TRINITY! Therefore, they were cast out of heaven and sent to earth as a prison until the judgment Day to be judged. How do you know he thought he could win? How do you even start to prove that it actually happened in the first place? It's a story, a belief, with zero way of proving one way or the other it's it's true. Knowing what we know of the natural world the likelihood is pretty much zero.
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 13:32:32 GMT -5
The only time people think angels had free will is the story about Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels that rebelled. Otherwise we never hear that angels have free will. But we need to also to remember that Satan and hell are fairly recent concepts in the big picture. The Hebrew people never conceived of a hell like Christians later did. Even early Christians had a different understanding of it all. So is it possible that it never happened and was just a story made up to back the concept of sin and going to a hell made by God? We need to remember that it was Augustine that defined what hell was and how you got there and he wasn't around until the 4th century. ** Jesus TOLD the Jews about HADES! and Paradise Abraham's bosom in Luke 16 the story of Rich man and Lazarus. Which just proves that the Hebrews did not have that concept of hell. Do Christians even worship the same god as the Jews? They have noticeable differences. The Hebrews viewed their God as wrathful, angry, jealous etc. while Christians try to make their God a God of peace and love. But there is no way the OT was a God of peace and love so if it's the same God, he's definitely viewed differently.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 13:36:29 GMT -5
Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why? why? why do you do bad and yet you know its wrong?
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 13:43:22 GMT -5
** The point is FREEEWILL to choose for their fate for eternity. God has given the angels and the humans the choice to choose, they either LOVE THEM and WANT TO BE with THEM for Eternity with great BLESSINGS or they can do their own freewill which leads to nowhere and eventually death. Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. That doesn't make sense to me. How would anyone that wasn't already a God think they could BE a God? Is that even possible and if it's not surely God's first angel would be knowledgeable of that. It's a story that priests started telling in order to get control over their followers. All religions have something negative attributed to their religion to make people fall into line.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 13:59:30 GMT -5
Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. That doesn't make sense to me. How would anyone that wasn't already a God think they could BE a God? Is that even possible and if it's not surely God's first angel would be knowledgeable of that. It's a story that priests started telling in order to get control over their followers. All religions have something negative attributed to their religion to make people fall into line. satan possibly got tempted to do that by seeing/using the tree of life and figured if he could have that he could be a god too....
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 14:12:18 GMT -5
That doesn't make sense to me. How would anyone that wasn't already a God think they could BE a God? Is that even possible and if it's not surely God's first angel would be knowledgeable of that. It's a story that priests started telling in order to get control over their followers. All religions have something negative attributed to their religion to make people fall into line. satan possibly got tempted to do that by seeing/using the tree of life and figured if he could have that he could be a god too.... So you think that the angels didn't have any idea that they couldn't be gods too? If any bunch in this hierarchy should know their role and/or limitations you would have thought it would be God's foremost angel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:21:00 GMT -5
satan possibly got tempted to do that by seeing/using the tree of life and figured if he could have that he could be a god too.... So you think that the angels didn't have any idea that they couldn't be gods too? If any bunch in this hierarchy should know their role and/or limitations you would have thought it would be God's foremost angel. angels have choices to make just like we do their just better at making the right choices for the most part...
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 28, 2019 17:16:51 GMT -5
Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why? why? why do you do bad and yet you know its wrong? Tell us why.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 28, 2019 17:18:45 GMT -5
satan possibly got tempted to do that by seeing/using the tree of life and figured if he could have that he could be a god too.... So you think that the angels didn't have any idea that they couldn't be gods too? If any bunch in this hierarchy should know their role and/or limitations you would have thought it would be God's foremost angel. The angels were inquiring why humans would become higher than they. PS: I just said something Nathan liked.
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 17:28:44 GMT -5
** Jesus TOLD the Jews about HADES! and Paradise Abraham's bosom in Luke 16 the story of Rich man and Lazarus. Which just proves that the Hebrews did not have that concept of hell. Do Christians even worship the same god as the Jews? They have noticeable differences. The Hebrews viewed their God as wrathful, angry, jealous etc. while Christians try to make their God a God of peace and love. But there is no way the OT was a God of peace and love so if it's the same God, he's definitely viewed differently. ** king David knew about Hades according to what he said in Acts 2:29-35. The Godhead of the Old Testament: God, The LORD/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and the New Test. Godhead is the same God/the Father, Christ/Jesus the LORD God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit. The Old and New Testament Godhead are the same Divine beings. They fought different kinds of enemies, in the Old Test. They fought the Nephilims 7 giants nations. In the New Test. Most The giants had been killed and died. The Christians fight more of spiritual enemies, the world, flesh, Satan, fallen angels..
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 28, 2019 17:30:25 GMT -5
** king David knew about Hades according to what he said in Acts 2:29-35. The Godhead of the Old Testament: God, The LORD/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and the New Test. Godhead is the same God/the Father, Christ/Jesus the LORD God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit. King David said something in Acts???
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 17:58:15 GMT -5
Which just proves that the Hebrews did not have that concept of hell. Do Christians even worship the same god as the Jews? They have noticeable differences. The Hebrews viewed their God as wrathful, angry, jealous etc. while Christians try to make their God a God of peace and love. But there is no way the OT was a God of peace and love so if it's the same God, he's definitely viewed differently. ** king David knew about Hades according to what he said in Acts 2:29-35. The Godhead of the Old Testament: God, The LORD/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and the New Test. Godhead is the same God/the Father, Christ/Jesus the LORD God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit. The Old and New Testament Godhead are the same Divine beings. They fought different kinds of enemies, in the Old Test. They fought the Nephilims 7 giants nations. In the New Test. Most The giants had been killed and died. The Christians fight more of spiritual enemies, the world, flesh, Satan, fallen angels.. King David wasn't alive when Acts was written. So it would be written by someone that had the new version of what hell was and just ASSumed King David would have believed like they did. Something Christians seem to do all the time actually. They seem to think they know better than the Jews about the Hebrew God and their religion.
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 18:17:54 GMT -5
** king David knew about Hades according to what he said in Acts 2:29-35. The Godhead of the Old Testament: God, The LORD/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and the New Test. Godhead is the same God/the Father, Christ/Jesus the LORD God and Savior, and the Holy Spirit. The Old and New Testament Godhead are the same Divine beings. They fought different kinds of enemies, in the Old Test. They fought the Nephilims 7 giants nations. In the New Test. Most The giants had been killed and died. The Christians fight more of spiritual enemies, the world, flesh, Satan, fallen angels.. King David wasn't alive when Acts was written. So it would be written by someone that had the new version of what hell was and just ASSumed King David would have believed like they did. Something Christians seem to do all the time actually. They seem to think they know better than the Jews about the Hebrew God and their religion. Before you guys and gals assumed and jumped to conclusion, you should read the verses I posted in Acts 2:29-35 It was Peter who told what David Said about the grave and Hades when he was alive.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 18:22:09 GMT -5
satan possibly got tempted to do that by seeing/using the tree of life and figured if he could have that he could be a god too.... So you think that the angels didn't have any idea that they couldn't be gods too? If any bunch in this hierarchy should know their role and/or limitations you would have thought it would be God's foremost angel. I believe Satan just thought he had power. He got too big in himself. His angels, given to him by God, to help him do his duties; stayed loyal and got to thinking ,” why not?” He didnt have that power he just thought he could seize that power. This was probably after he and his angels pricreated with the daughters of man. That puffed him up. Sex causes a lot of misconceptions!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 18:28:05 GMT -5
King David wasn't alive when Acts was written. So it would be written by someone that had the new version of what hell was and just ASSumed King David would have believed like they did. Something Christians seem to do all the time actually. They seem to think they know better than the Jews about the Hebrew God and their religion. You guys, and gals should read the verses I posted in Acts 2:29-35 It was Peter who told what David Said about the grave and Hades when he was alive.
King David knew that the graves or Sheol or Hades was where people were put when they die. And that their flesh would rot and decay away. He knew that because there had been graves where nothing but bones were found years after burial of a body. He didn’t say “hell” as Christians speak of it now. Those verses are speaking to the fact that God’s Son’s body would not seek corruption or rot and decay as is usual. Other words David was foretelling about Jesus’ resurrection! The children of Israel knew nothing about the “hell” of which Christians speak of these days.
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Post by snow on Aug 28, 2019 18:34:13 GMT -5
So you think that the angels didn't have any idea that they couldn't be gods too? If any bunch in this hierarchy should know their role and/or limitations you would have thought it would be God's foremost angel. I believe Satan just thought he had power. He got too big in himself. His angels, given to him by God, to help him do his duties; stayed loyal and got to thinking ,” why not?” He didnt have that power he just thought he could seize that power. This was probably after he and his angels pricreated with the daughters of man. That puffed him up. Sex causes a lot of misconceptions! Hmm well I guess I just don't understand because I don't get that he would be that stupid knowing who God was and knowing what he was.
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Post by rational on Aug 28, 2019 20:23:06 GMT -5
Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why? why? why do you do bad and yet you know its wrong? This feels like projection on your part. If I were talking about you I wouldn't raise the question. But for an omnipotent omniscient being to be bickering over who has the most souls does raise the question of what is the point? This is all so confusing. Thank god s/he made me an atheist.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:25:43 GMT -5
You guys, and gals should read the verses I posted in Acts 2:29-35 It was Peter who told what David Said about the grave and Hades when he was alive.
King David knew that the graves or Sheol or Hades was where people were put when they die. And that their flesh would rot and decay away. He knew that because there had been graves where nothing but bones were found years after burial of a body. He didn’t say “hell” as Christians speak of it now. Those verses are speaking to the fact that God’s Son’s body would not seek corruption or rot and decay as is usual. Other words David was foretelling about Jesus’ resurrection! The children of Israel knew nothing about the “hell” of which Christians speak of these days. some did...hell is used 31 times in the OT...the story of the rich man and lazarus and hell happened BEFORE Jesus died and was resurrected they knew what Jesus was talking about when he told them that story...he didn't at any time have to explain the whole concept of hell in the NT....it was already known....and no one questioned his story either....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:27:40 GMT -5
why? why do you do bad and yet you know its wrong? This feels like projection on your part. If I were talking about you I wouldn't raise the question. But for an omnipotent omniscient being to be bickering over who has the most souls does raise the question of what is the point? This is all so confusing. Thank god s/he made me an atheist. oh come now, you haven't done any bad in this life or even repeated it more than once?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 20:52:03 GMT -5
King David knew that the graves or Sheol or Hades was where people were put when they die. And that their flesh would rot and decay away. He knew that because there had been graves where nothing but bones were found years after burial of a body. He didn’t say “hell” as Christians speak of it now. Those verses are speaking to the fact that God’s Son’s body would not seek corruption or rot and decay as is usual. Other words David was foretelling about Jesus’ resurrection! The children of Israel knew nothing about the “hell” of which Christians speak of these days. some did...hell is used 31 times in the OT...the story of the rich man and lazarus and hell happened BEFORE Jesus died and was resurrected they knew what Jesus was talking about when he told them that story...he didn't at any time have to explain the whole concept of hell in the NT....it was already known....and no one questioned his story either.... That doesn’t fit that he descended down into the belly of the earth to release the captives of death. Acts 2:27. Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither will that suffer thine Holy One to see corruption(Jesus was promised he would not be a captive of the physical grave nor his body he thete long enough to turn into dust)! For the Jews, hell is the grave where the flesh seeks corruptions, rotting away to dust and bones. Hell, Hades, Sheol all were the grave where dead people end up. Truthfully, Abraham’s bosom isn’t Paradise. Paradise is in heaven. Here’s the explanation of that Parable about the rich man and Lazurus. chicagobible.org/what-is-abrahams-bosom/Abraham and others that died before Jesus was crucified and resurrected, were captive spirits in the grave. That’s why Jesus had to descend down into the earth and preach the gospel there and release those captive spirits and they followed him to heaven after his ascension. He led them to Paradise. That’s why at the first resurrection those who’ve already died will rise first and given their spirits a resurrected body, then those who are still alive on the earth will arise and be changed into eternal bodies, and that is when Jesus gathers his own from the four winds of the earth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 21:06:03 GMT -5
some did...hell is used 31 times in the OT...the story of the rich man and lazarus and hell happened BEFORE Jesus died and was resurrected they knew what Jesus was talking about when he told them that story...he didn't at any time have to explain the whole concept of hell in the NT....it was already known....and no one questioned his story either.... That doesn’t fit that he descended down into the belly of the earth to release the captives of death. Acts 2:27. Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither will that suffer thine Holy One to see corruption(Jesus was promised he would not be a captive of the physical grave nor his body he thete long enough to turn into dust)! For the Jews, hell is the grave where the flesh seeks corruptions, rotting away to dust and bones. Hell, Hades, Sheol all were the grave where dead people end up. Truthfully, Abraham’s bosom isn’t Paradise. Paradise is in heaven. Here’s the explanation of that Parable about the rich man and Lazurus. chicagobible.org/what-is-abrahams-bosom/Abraham and others that died before Jesus was crucified and resurrected, were captive spirits in the grave. That’s why Jesus had to descend down into the earth and preach the gospel there and release those captive spirits and they followed him to heaven after his ascension. He led them to Paradise. That’s why at the first resurrection those who’ve already died will rise first and given their spirits a resurrected body, then those who are still alive on the earth will arise and be changed into eternal bodies, and that is when Jesus gathers his own from the four winds of the earth. well that might be one interpretation of the story but it wouldn't necessarily be fact.....you can go to any grave you want and its not full of unbearable heat and depending on how and when you were buried it maybe wet or not also the same for the worms that dieth not....its to my understanding that paradise was hell adjacent with a chasm between the two....
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 21:09:14 GMT -5
You guys, and gals should read the verses I posted in Acts 2:29-35 It was Peter who told what David Said about the grave and Hades when he was alive.
King David knew that the graves or Sheol or Hades was where people were put when they die. And that their flesh would rot and decay away. He knew that because there had been graves where nothing but bones were found years after burial of a body. He didn’t say “hell” as Christians speak of it now. Those verses are speaking to the fact that God’s Son’s body would not seek corruption or rot and decay as is usual. Other words David was foretelling about Jesus’ resurrection! The children of Israel knew nothing about the “hell” of which Christians speak of these days. *** Adam and Eve knew where HADES was because that where their souls would end up after death because of their sins in partake the forbidden fruit/Serpent/Satan. Adam and Eve must have told their children of their DARK fate in HADES and about the coming Messiah/Christ who died for the sins of humanity to deliver theirs souls from Hades. Genesis 3:15 King David had a Revelation after Jesus/Messiah had paid the the ransom price on Calvary, his Spirit went to Hades to rescue all Old Testament believers who were STUCKED there because of sins. God the Father raised up Jesus and all of the believers STUCK in Hades and HE opened heaven to Welcome all of them home.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 28, 2019 22:51:13 GMT -5
King David knew that the graves or Sheol or Hades was where people were put when they die. And that their flesh would rot and decay away. He knew that because there had been graves where nothing but bones were found years after burial of a body. He didn’t say “hell” as Christians speak of it now. Those verses are speaking to the fact that God’s Son’s body would not seek corruption or rot and decay as is usual. Other words David was foretelling about Jesus’ resurrection! The children of Israel knew nothing about the “hell” of which Christians speak of these days. *** Adam and Eve knew where HADES was because that where their souls would end up after death because of their sins in partake the forbidden fruit/Serpent/Satan. Adam and Eve must have told their children of their DARK fate in HADES and about the coming Messiah/Christ who died for the sins of humanity to deliver theirs souls from Hades. Genesis 3:15 King David had a Revelation after Jesus/Messiah had paid the the ransom price on Calvary, his Spirit went to Hades to rescue all Old Testament believers who were STUCKED there because of sins. God the Father raised up Jesus and all of the believers STUCK in Hades and HE opened heaven to Welcome all of them home. What a screw-up of ignorance. Sorry - it's just insufferably disputable.
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 23:13:13 GMT -5
*** Adam and Eve knew where HADES was because that where their souls would end up after death because of their sins in partake the forbidden fruit/Serpent/Satan. Adam and Eve must have told their children of their DARK fate in HADES and about the coming Messiah/Christ who died for the sins of humanity to deliver theirs souls from Hades. Genesis 3:15 King David had a Revelation after Jesus/Messiah had paid the the ransom price on Calvary, his Spirit went to Hades to rescue all Old Testament believers who were STUCKED there because of sins. God the Father raised up Jesus and all of the believers STUCK in Hades and HE opened heaven to Welcome all of them home. What a screw-up of ignorance. Sorry - it's just insufferably disputable. It's a screw-up of ignorance because you are a doubting Thomas, an unbeliever and living under the rock.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 23:21:51 GMT -5
What a screw-up of ignorance. Sorry - it's just insufferably disputable. It's a screw-up of ignorance because you are a doubting Thomas, an unbeliever and living under the rock.i think you said this : King David had a Revelation after Jesus/Messiah had paid the the ransom price on Calvary.... you probably should have said this: King David had a Revelation THAT Jesus/Messiah WOULD PAY the the ransom price on Calvary most probably understood what you said but some around here will sting you on technicalities....
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 28, 2019 23:32:21 GMT -5
It's a screw-up of ignorance because you are a doubting Thomas, an unbeliever and living under the rock. i think you said this : King David had a Revelation after Jesus/Messiah had paid the the ransom price on Calvary.... you probably should have said this: King David had a Revelation THAT Jesus/Messiah WOULD PAY the the ransom price on Calvary most probably understood what you said but some around here will sting you on technicalities.... I could have reasonably understood the comment about King David. It was the rest of the post that I found wildly concocted.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 23:39:08 GMT -5
That doesn’t fit that he descended down into the belly of the earth to release the captives of death. Acts 2:27. Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither will that suffer thine Holy One to see corruption(Jesus was promised he would not be a captive of the physical grave nor his body he thete long enough to turn into dust)! For the Jews, hell is the grave where the flesh seeks corruptions, rotting away to dust and bones. Hell, Hades, Sheol all were the grave where dead people end up. Truthfully, Abraham’s bosom isn’t Paradise. Paradise is in heaven. Here’s the explanation of that Parable about the rich man and Lazurus. chicagobible.org/what-is-abrahams-bosom/Abraham and others that died before Jesus was crucified and resurrected, were captive spirits in the grave. That’s why Jesus had to descend down into the earth and preach the gospel there and release those captive spirits and they followed him to heaven after his ascension. He led them to Paradise. That’s why at the first resurrection those who’ve already died will rise first and given their spirits a resurrected body, then those who are still alive on the earth will arise and be changed into eternal bodies, and that is when Jesus gathers his own from the four winds of the earth. well that might be one interpretation of the story but it wouldn't necessarily be fact.....you can go to any grave you want and its not full of unbearable heat and depending on how and when you were buried it maybe wet or not also the same for the worms that dieth not....its to my understanding that paradise was hell adjacent with a chasm between the two.... Paradise is heaven. Abraham’s bosom in the grave was a place of safe keeping for those who had been godly during their lives on earth. Yet they were captives in the grave “until” Jesus visited them in the belly of the earth, preached the gospel to them, released their spirits and they followed a Hesus into Paradise after his ascension. www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_149.cfm
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