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Post by snow on Aug 27, 2019 12:31:17 GMT -5
But what's to stop some more angels from getting upset and trying to change things? It happened once, what's to say it can't happen again? And God has regretted making people a few times in the bible, so obviously God is quite capable of sadness, anger and even wrath. God has promised that the former things would pass away so things like rebellion and such will go away so while its possible that could happen i don't think it will happen..... Okay but there is really no guarantee, which was my point.
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Post by snow on Aug 27, 2019 12:33:11 GMT -5
The angels are created beings. So they could well have tendencies like humans and that would be to fall. Just like Adam and Eve were sinless but Satan had power to deceive them and thus the fall of man. Likely God has never given angels the power that he gave Satan. Angels by definition that I've always heard do not have free will. Therefore they couldn't rebel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:33:50 GMT -5
The good angels KNEW and SAW what happened to Satan and 1/3 of the fallen angels fate= thrown into the lake of fire forever. I don't think they want to REBEL or FIGHT against God and Christ in the New Earth and heaven. God can destroy them and any humans/born again that thinking of rebel this time instantly! ZAP, He will NOT let them to go on like He did with Satan and the fallen angels. Nathan, I'm absolutely sure that any angels, Lucifer and 1/3 of the ones that rebelled also knew they couldn't win so why wouldn't what you just wrote apply to them also? they had visions of grandeur just like humans can....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:35:03 GMT -5
The angels are created beings. So they could well have tendencies like humans and that would be to fall. Just like Adam and Eve were sinless but Satan had power to deceive them and thus the fall of man. Likely God has never given angels the power that he gave Satan. Angels by definition that I've always heard do not have free will. Therefore they couldn't rebel. as far as i know they do have some free will just not as much as humans....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2019 12:42:19 GMT -5
The angels are created beings. So they could well have tendencies like humans and that would be to fall. Just like Adam and Eve were sinless but Satan had power to deceive them and thus the fall of man. Likely God has never given angels the power that he gave Satan. Angels by definition that I've always heard do not have free will. Therefore they couldn't rebel. No free will, doesn’t speak about them having a will at all, does it? Like I said after Satan proved such a pain in Gods back I doubt seriously he ever gave another angel those kind of powers again!
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Post by snow on Aug 27, 2019 16:55:47 GMT -5
Angels by definition that I've always heard do not have free will. Therefore they couldn't rebel. No free will, doesn’t speak about them having a will at all, does it? Like I said after Satan proved such a pain in Gods back I doubt seriously he ever gave another angel those kind of powers again! The only time people think angels had free will is the story about Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels that rebelled. Otherwise we never hear that angels have free will. But we need to also to remember that Satan and hell are fairly recent concepts in the big picture. The Hebrew people never conceived of a hell like Christians later did. Even early Christians had a different understanding of it all. So is it possible that it never happened and was just a story made up to back the concept of sin and going to a hell made by God? We need to remember that it was Augustine that defined what hell was and how you got there and he wasn't around until the 4th century.
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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2019 19:29:58 GMT -5
The good angels KNEW and SAW what happened to Satan and 1/3 of the fallen angels fate= thrown into the lake of fire forever. I don't think they want to REBEL or FIGHT against God and Christ in the New Earth and heaven. God can destroy them and any humans/born again that thinking of rebel this time instantly! ZAP, He will NOT let them to go on like He did with Satan and the fallen angels. Nathan, I'm absolutely sure that any angels, Lucifer and 1/3 of the ones that rebelled also knew they couldn't win so why wouldn't what you just wrote apply to them also? ** Lucifer thought he could win against God if he had MANY angels, who supported and believe in him and stand by his side to fight against God. Well, they found out they were no match to fight against the TRINITY! Therefore, they were cast out of heaven and sent to earth as a prison until the judgment Day to be judged.
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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2019 19:46:04 GMT -5
Angels by definition that I've always heard do not have free will. Therefore they couldn't rebel. as far as i know they do have some free will just not as much as humans.... *** The angels of God have freewill just like the humans. 1/3 of the angels by their own freewill they had chosen to be with Lucifer/Satan/Serpent to REBEL against the TRINITY. Satan/Serpent KNEW the TRINITY had given Adam and Eve also freewill to choose Christ/the TREE of ETERNAL LIFE or the forbidden Tree of knowledge of good and evil/Satan= Death/Separate from God forever. Adam and Eve were deceived by the Serpent to pick the WRONG choice! They decided to stand with Satan instead Christ/God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2019 19:46:32 GMT -5
Nathan, I'm absolutely sure that any angels, Lucifer and 1/3 of the ones that rebelled also knew they couldn't win so why wouldn't what you just wrote apply to them also? ** Lucifer thought he could win against God if he had MANY angels, who supported and believe in him and stand by his side to fight against God. Well, they found out they were no match to fight against the TRINITY! Therefore, they were cast out of heaven and sent to earth as a prison until the judgment Day to be judged. Satan had an “in” with God because he could accuse the brethren before God. But after Jesus was crucified, the blood that cleanses sinners from their sins is what put the devil out of business as far as God was concerned.
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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2019 19:50:16 GMT -5
No free will, doesn’t speak about them having a will at all, does it? Like I said after Satan proved such a pain in Gods back I doubt seriously he ever gave another angel those kind of powers again! The only time people think angels had free will is the story about Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels that rebelled. Otherwise we never hear that angels have free will. But we need to also to remember that Satan and hell are fairly recent concepts in the big picture. The Hebrew people never conceived of a hell like Christians later did. Even early Christians had a different understanding of it all. So is it possible that it never happened and was just a story made up to back the concept of sin and going to a hell made by God? We need to remember that it was Augustine that defined what hell was and how you got there and he wasn't around until the 4th century. ** Jesus TOLD the Jews about HADES! and Paradise Abraham's bosom in Luke 16 the story of Rich man and Lazarus.
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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2019 19:54:31 GMT -5
** Lucifer thought he could win against God if he had MANY angels, who supported and believe in him and stand by his side to fight against God. Well, they found out they were no match to fight against the TRINITY! Therefore, they were cast out of heaven and sent to earth as a prison until the judgment Day to be judged. Satan had an “in” with God because he could accuse the brethren before God. But after Jesus was crucified, the blood that cleanses sinners from their sins is what put the devil out of business as far as God was concerned. ** Satan is NOT out of business, he still has Trillions of human souls are in HADES! as his prisoners and billions more souls on earth are heading to HADES.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2019 19:59:32 GMT -5
Satan had an “in” with God because he could accuse the brethren before God. But after Jesus was crucified, the blood that cleanses sinners from their sins is what put the devil out of business as far as God was concerned. ** Satan is NOT out of business, he still has Trillions of human souls are in HADES! as his prisoners and billions more souls on earth are heading to HADES. He was tossed out of heaven, Michael and his angels won that war by their testimonies and the blood of the Lamb. SAtan has no more “in” with God, he can no longer accuse the brethren, he can no longer appear before God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2019 20:00:43 GMT -5
** Satan is NOT out of business, he still has Trillions of human souls are in HADES! as his prisoners and billions more souls on earth are heading to HADES. He was tossed out of heaven, Michael and his angels won that war by their testimonies and the blood of the Lamb. SAtan has no more “in” with God, he can no longer accuse the brethren, he can no longer appear before God. Edit: you’re extending the numbers dramatically by trillions and billions!
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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2019 21:10:32 GMT -5
He was tossed out of heaven, Michael and his angels won that war by their testimonies and the blood of the Lamb. SAtan has no more “in” with God, he can no longer accuse the brethren, he can no longer appear before God. Edit: you’re extending the numbers dramatically by trillions and billions! As of September 2014, there are 7.25 billion people in the world. The population of the world is currently growing at a rate of 1.4 percent per year, which translates to an estimated 80 million people a year. The most populous country in the world is China, with a population at 1.39 billion people. We don't know the exactly the total number of people that have died since Adam. Eve and the last 6000 yrs on the earth around the world.... maybe up to trillion plus. The unbelievers souls are in Hades are into Billions or more... The 7.5 billions are heading toward Hades where their souls belong to Satan. So, Satan is NOT out of business at all, but growing steadily upward.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and 1/3 of his angels were cast out with him.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2019 23:19:29 GMT -5
Edit: you’re extending the numbers dramatically by trillions and billions! As of September 2014, there are 7.25 billion people in the world. The population of the world is currently growing at a rate of 1.4 percent per year, which translates to an estimated 80 million people a year. The most populous country in the world is China, with a population at 1.39 billion people. We don't know the exactly the total number of people that have died since Adam. Eve and the last 6000 yrs on the earth around the world.... maybe up to trillion plus. The unbelievers souls are in Hades are into Billions or more... The 7.5 billions are heading toward Hades where their souls belong to Satan. So, Satan is NOT out of business at all, but growing steadily upward.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and 1/3 of his angels were cast out with him.
He has no more business in heaven!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 23:52:18 GMT -5
As of September 2014, there are 7.25 billion people in the world. The population of the world is currently growing at a rate of 1.4 percent per year, which translates to an estimated 80 million people a year. The most populous country in the world is China, with a population at 1.39 billion people. We don't know the exactly the total number of people that have died since Adam. Eve and the last 6000 yrs on the earth around the world.... maybe up to trillion plus. The unbelievers souls are in Hades are into Billions or more... The 7.5 billions are heading toward Hades where their souls belong to Satan. So, Satan is NOT out of business at all, but growing steadily upward.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and 1/3 of his angels were cast out with him.
He has no more business in heaven! i see a little bit where your getting your idea from because of the life, death and resurrection of Christ satan might have been cut off from heaven...interesting enough to say satan was kicked out of heaven before or after eden was made and yet in the book of job(before the flood?) was able to prance before God and the other angels in the heaven he was kicked out of...
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 0:30:37 GMT -5
As of September 2014, there are 7.25 billion people in the world. The population of the world is currently growing at a rate of 1.4 percent per year, which translates to an estimated 80 million people a year. The most populous country in the world is China, with a population at 1.39 billion people. We don't know the exactly the total number of people that have died since Adam. Eve and the last 6000 yrs on the earth around the world.... maybe up to trillion plus. The unbelievers souls are in Hades are into Billions or more... The 7.5 billions are heading toward Hades where their souls belong to Satan. So, Satan is NOT out of business at all, but growing steadily upward.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and 1/3 of his angels were cast out with him.
He has no more business in heaven! I am NOT talking about heaven... Satan has been cast out of heaven/Venus to earth long, long time ago ( 2nd day/Order of creation), before Adam and Eve Creation in the Garden of Eden, which was 6000 yrs ago (6th day/Order of Creation). God has allowed Satan to enter heaven only a certain special event like in Job 1:6. God does NOT want Satan's presence in heaven for too long because he could persuade more good angels in heaven to follow him.
Satan main business is HERE on earth, this is his and 1/3 fallen angels kingdom, their purpose is to take ALL mankind/Billions souls of men and women held in HADES, since the time of Adam and Eve to the last person alive, to be with them in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Satan does NOT any human created in the image of God to rule and reign with Christ over them and the Universe so, he was going to mess up God's plans by deceived Adam and Eve into sin that is to follow him. God had told Adam and Eve they will surely die naturally and eternally, and Heaven door was closed to them. Therefore, Satan has kept the humans sinners and believers souls in HADES! until Christ/Jesus had paid for their sins on Calvary's.
However, Christ/God in mercy offered himself as the sacrificial Lamb of God in the person Jesus for the sins of Adam, Eve and all humanity in Genesis 3:15. Christ has kept His promised and he came down from heaven 2000 yrs ago, and paid the ransom price on Calvary's. Christ has told his apostles and followers he will come back to for them so, he is coming back to take over and Rule/Reign over the fallen angels on earth, and gods that are out there and throughout the Universe.
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Post by rational on Aug 28, 2019 7:48:52 GMT -5
Satan had an “in” with God because he could accuse the brethren before God. But after Jesus was crucified, the blood that cleanses sinners from their sins is what put the devil out of business as far as God was concerned. ** Satan is NOT out of business, he still has Trillions of human souls are in HADES! as his prisoners and billions more souls on earth are heading to HADES. What, exactly, does he plan to do with them? Collect them for a paid vacation? Really - what is the point? If Satan gets more souls than the current god does he become god? 'Is that winning'?
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 7:57:27 GMT -5
** Satan is NOT out of business, he still has Trillions of human souls are in HADES! as his prisoners and billions more souls on earth are heading to HADES. What, exactly, does he plan to do with them? Collect them for a paid vacation? Really - what is the point? If Satan gets more souls than the current god does he become god? 'Is that winning'? Satan and the fallen angels are NOT going to be with God in the New earth and heaven that He had prepared for them so, if they can't be there for eternity then NO humans on earth going to there either! Satan and fallen angels will try to MAKE sure very FEW will go to heaven and to be with God. This is a horrible kingdom with hardly any one there to share the glory with? Just like in China there are beautiful high rise apartments but nobody living in there so it looks like a ghost cities.
Satan is winning? maybe for now, he might have won many battles but NOT the WAR. Satan and fallen angels and all of their followers will end up in the Lake of fire for eternity!
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Post by rational on Aug 28, 2019 8:10:14 GMT -5
What, exactly, does he plan to do with them? Collect them for a paid vacation? Really - what is the point? If Satan gets more souls than the current god does he become god? 'Is that winning'? Satan and the fallen angels are NOT going to be with God in the New earth and heaven that He had prepared for them so, if they can't be there for eternity then NO humans on earth going to there either! Satan and fallen angels will try to MAKE sure very FEW will go to heaven and to be with God. This is a horrible kingdom with hardly any one there to share the glory with? Just like in China there are beautiful high rise apartments but nobody living in there so it looks like a ghost cities.
Satan is winning? maybe for now, he might have won many battles but NOT the WAR. Satan and fallen angels and all of their followers will end up in the Lake of fire for eternity!
Again, nathan, what is the point? So satan gets a lot of people to get thrown into the lake of burning whatever - to what end? For what reason? You keep saying who is doing this and that but do not provide the "why".
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 8:59:09 GMT -5
Satan and the fallen angels are NOT going to be with God in the New earth and heaven that He had prepared for them so, if they can't be there for eternity then NO humans on earth going to there either! Satan and fallen angels will try to MAKE sure very FEW will go to heaven and to be with God. This is a horrible kingdom with hardly any one there to share the glory with? Just like in China there are beautiful high rise apartments but nobody living in there so it looks like a ghost cities.
Satan is winning? maybe for now, he might have won many battles but NOT the WAR. Satan and fallen angels and all of their followers will end up in the Lake of fire for eternity!
Again, nathan, what is the point? So satan gets a lot of people to get thrown into the lake of burning whatever - to what end? For what reason? You keep saying who is doing this and that but do not provide the "why". ** The point is FREEEWILL to choose for their fate for eternity. God has given the angels and the humans the choice to choose, they either LOVE THEM and WANT TO BE with THEM for Eternity with great BLESSINGS or they can do their own freewill which leads to nowhere and eventually death.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 10:45:29 GMT -5
He has no more business in heaven! i see a little bit where your getting your idea from because of the life, death and resurrection of Christ satan might have been cut off from heaven...interesting enough to say satan was kicked out of heaven before or after eden was made and yet in the book of job(before the flood?) was able to prance before God and the other angels in the heaven he was kicked out of... Job ‘s time was before Moses’ time. Job is son of Issachar who was son of Jacob and Leah. chicagobible.org/did-job-live-before-abraham-or-before-noah/
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 10:49:44 GMT -5
Again, nathan, what is the point? So satan gets a lot of people to get thrown into the lake of burning whatever - to what end? For what reason? You keep saying who is doing this and that but do not provide the "why". ** The point is FREEEWILL to choose for their fate for eternity. God has given the angels and the humans the choice to choose, they either LOVE THEM and WANT TO BE with THEM for Eternity with great BLESSINGS or they can do their own freewill which leads to nowhere and eventually death. Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator.
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 10:55:14 GMT -5
** The point is FREEEWILL to choose for their fate for eternity. God has given the angels and the humans the choice to choose, they either LOVE THEM and WANT TO BE with THEM for Eternity with great BLESSINGS or they can do their own freewill which leads to nowhere and eventually death. Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. ** I am totally agree with you that Satan only wants God to have some born again humans children to be with Him/Them for eternity in the New earth and heaven. The rest of humanity souls he will take them with him to HELL.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 11:04:03 GMT -5
Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. ** I am totally agree with you that Satan only wants God to have some born again humans children to be with Him/Them for eternity in the New earth and heaven. The rest of humanity souls he will take them with him in HELL. Satan prefers God has nothing. Satan doesn’t care what happens to the people! Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning.
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Post by nathan on Aug 28, 2019 11:51:15 GMT -5
** I am totally agree with you that Satan only wants God to have some born again humans children to be with Him/Them for eternity in the New earth and heaven. The rest of humanity souls he will take them with him in HELL. Satan prefers God has nothing. Satan doesn’t care what happens to the people! Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning. ** God had entrusted Lucifer and all of the angels in heaven with super powers to help Him with His creation. Instead working with God and for Him Satan and 1/3 of fallen angels working against Him.
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Post by rational on Aug 28, 2019 12:21:11 GMT -5
** The point is FREEEWILL to choose for their fate for eternity. God has given the angels and the humans the choice to choose, they either LOVE THEM and WANT TO BE with THEM for Eternity with great BLESSINGS or they can do their own freewill which leads to nowhere and eventually death. Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 28, 2019 12:25:50 GMT -5
Satan’s point is to get back at God for disowning him because Satan wants to be god instead of the Father being God. He doesn’t give a dimes worth of care what happens to people. For him it’s all about getting back at God the creator. Getting back? Are these third graders in the school yard? This is infantile behavior from a supreme being and some paranormal bad guy. The question is still - Why? As to God? He doesn’t need “the accuser of the brethren” trying to belittle or make little of God’s Son’s sacrifice. As to Satan,? He’s still pitched off at God for taking his heavenly powers from him and kicking him out of heaven. Actually it’s Satan who’s being infantile but not proceeding in infantile manner.
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