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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 13:17:54 GMT -5
** I am NOT the only 2x2 doing it but most workers and current believe the same as I do. Back in 1907 most workers and the friends excommunicated John Long 2x2 worker for sending his 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice ONLY one professing man stood by John long. So, I am NOT the only onethat believe it but most current workers and the friend believe the same way. If any 2x2 workers today sending their 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice will be EXCOMMUNICATE from the ministry. No one is sending any ex 2x2s to any church, it’s that free will you and Wally scream about when I’ve tried to tell about many are called but few are chosen! You cannot accept that God’s Will will be done regardless of what you or Wally or any other two by two believes. You do not accept the fact God has power that is beyond our comprehension and that by his wisdom, knowledge, and understanding he WILL save his elect even without the two by twos! He did it nearly 2000 years before the two by twos became a church. Which they didn’t intend to at first! ** That is your belief and many exes but NOT. Most of the worker and the friends. Brandon from Texas was asked NOT to speak in his Sunday morning meetings and at convention because he was disturbing the meetings with rants for saying how good the church he had been attending with his girlfriend, whom he later married. Brandon eventually, left the meetings on his own and attend his girlfriend church.
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Post by breakfree on Aug 21, 2019 13:37:56 GMT -5
That’s not true! The reason is most still have family and close friends in the 2x2s. If those families found out they were going to a “false” church there’d be no end of condemnation for the ex 2x2. Just look at how Nathan has condemned them to a lost eternity and most of us don’t appreciate that! It’s the way the 2x2s do spiritual killing and kill close relationships between family members. It’s sad that it happens because when there’s condemnation to a lost eternity then they who do that are facing very stiff judgment themselves. As to what I believe about 2x2s is there will be some that will know eternal life, but only some. Exactly the same way amongst any other Christian church. It’s what is in the heart that Jesus judges on and there are people who say they believe in Jesus Christ, but if they don’t believe he is God manifested in the flesh then they reign their faith. So many Christians and 2x2s are amongst the worst is their faith is in their church not Jesus Christ. JMO cop out....ex's have already left the truth and have already been condemned from the get go or at least according to ex's testimonies on here...whats best is being honest and not deliberately omitting information for the debate to be balanced and fair... What I don't quite understand is your assumption that exes have left "the truth" ,when in reality they are in search of TRUTH or have already found THE TRUTH and decided to get out of the 2x2 box .It's just a 'box 'really where people have a misguided feeling of safety.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 21, 2019 14:13:04 GMT -5
Nathan, you’ve been very strong in condemning any ex 2x2s and those who’ve joined other churches you’ve berated the hardest using scriptures to justify your condemnation. ** I am NOT the only 2x2 doing it but most workers and current believe the same as I do. Back in 1907 most workers and the friends excommunicated John Long 2x2 worker for sending his 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice ONLY one professing man stood by John long. So, I am NOT the only onethat believe it but most current workers and the friend believe the same way. If any 2x2 workers today sending their 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice will be EXCOMMUNICATE from the ministry. But YOU weren't asked for YOUR opinion.
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 21, 2019 14:25:44 GMT -5
Over my time of being involved in this forum, I have noticed what impresses as being an interesting theme. Those people who were once members of the 2x2 group and have left, but remained Christians, generally seem to be shy about revealing the identity of the group or church they now meet with. I recall being admonished for publishing the contact of the church of one such person. If we are prepared to label the 2x2's as being secretive; isolated; wanting to keep under the radar and so on, then why do ex-2x2 Christians overwhelmingly suppress the identity of their Christian church (replace the term "church" with your preferred term)? To assist the members of this forum, can the Christians who contribute please provide the church (group or whatever) they are now following? This would surely help 2x2's to determine how their own church compares with the churches that each ex-2x2 believes to be a satisfactory alternative. Well, here is just a guess, as I do not meet with any particular group or church. (And, I don't think I ever will.) Most would consider themselves a follower of Christ rather than any particular belief system, and probably do not find naming a particular affiliation as being all that relevant. Most would leave their current affiliation in an instant, if it did not line up with their expectations.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 14:36:34 GMT -5
It depends on whether they believe the Truth is Jesus or if it is some man made church started by a man named William Irvine 120 years ago. They sing Jesus only is their message when in fact, the workers first and foremost is their message. Jesus is only secondary to them. Nathan proves that everyday by condemning to hell anyone who goes to another church except his regardless of their belief in Jesus. *** Jesus own words in Matt 7:21-28 NOT everyone who say and teach Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name done many wonderful works, but I will tell them "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity." They did it their own ways and did not follow Jesus instructions of how he wanted things done HIS ways.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 14:38:37 GMT -5
** I am NOT the only 2x2 doing it but most workers and current believe the same as I do. Back in 1907 most workers and the friends excommunicated John Long 2x2 worker for sending his 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice ONLY one professing man stood by John long. So, I am NOT the only onethat believe it but most current workers and the friend believe the same way. If any 2x2 workers today sending their 2x2 converts to join the churches of their choice will be EXCOMMUNICATE from the ministry. But YOU weren't asked for YOUR opinion. ** Well, this 2x2 church message board and I am a 2x2 and I free to express my opinion about my church belief. Don't you think, BobW. I didn't ask for your opinion but you express it anyway.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 21, 2019 14:47:49 GMT -5
But YOU weren't asked for YOUR opinion. ** Well, this 2x2 church message board and I am a 2x2 and I free to express my opinion about my church belief. Don't you think, BobW. Of course. But don't pretend every question is about you. You're like a broken needle.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 14:54:04 GMT -5
** Well, this 2x2 church message board and I am a 2x2 and I free to express my opinion about my church belief. Don't you think, BobW. Of course. But don't pretend every question is about you. You're like a broken needle. ** I don't pretend everything is about me or answering every questions on TMB. I just answers the posts which seem of interests to me or about my 2x2 church.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 15:46:02 GMT -5
No one is sending any ex 2x2s to any church, it’s that free will you and Wally scream about when I’ve tried to tell about many are called but few are chosen! You cannot accept that God’s Will will be done regardless of what you or Wally or any other two by two believes. You do not accept the fact God has power that is beyond our comprehension and that by his wisdom, knowledge, and understanding he WILL save his elect even without the two by twos! He did it nearly 2000 years before the two by twos became a church. Which they didn’t intend to at first! ** That is your belief and many exes but NOT. Most of the worker and the friends. Brandon from Texas was asked NOT to speak in his Sunday morning meetings and at convention because he was disturbing the meetings with rants for saying how good the church he had been attending with his girlfriend, whom he later married. Brandon eventually, left the meetings on his own and attend his girlfriend church. Yes, I’m well aware most 2x2s think they’re the only true church. This an heresy! Simply because they didn’t intend to become a church but jealousy got them to quit sending their converts to other churches because they would find out that the two by two church was a “grand experiment “! That doesn’t tend to set well with people to find out their experimental subjects! Then when the lie got started they went all the way back to the shores of Galilee, sure enough they needed to keep their converts out of contact with other Christians for again they might find out the truth that the 2x2 workers were started by a “grand experiment “!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 15:53:30 GMT -5
It depends on whether they believe the Truth is Jesus or if it is some man made church started by a man named William Irvine 120 years ago. They sing Jesus only is their message when in fact, the workers first and foremost is their message. Jesus is only secondary to them. Nathan proves that everyday by condemning to hell anyone who goes to another church except his regardless of their belief in Jesus. *** Jesus own words in Matt 7:21-28 NOT everyone who say and teach Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name done many wonderful works, but I will tell them "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity." They did it their own ways and did not follow Jesus instructions of how he wanted things done HIS ways. You by your own opinion say the workers are and have been wrong not to believe or to teach that Jesus is God the Son! So when people say they believe in Jesus but deny his deity, they ARE the ones who are those whom Jesus will tell “I knew you not.” Because they don’t know him! Jesus told his disciples “If you have seen me, you’ve seen the Father.” But two by twos read right over that and have NO idea what that means. They read in the Bible where it say “God was made manifest in the flesh” but they comprehend it not. Jesus does not know them because they don’t know him! Kind of frightening to think that they are those that “ have an ear but hear not, and have eyes but comprehend not!, and as Jesus said “lest hearing and seeing I would heal them.”
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 15:55:20 GMT -5
Over my time of being involved in this forum, I have noticed what impresses as being an interesting theme. Those people who were once members of the 2x2 group and have left, but remained Christians, generally seem to be shy about revealing the identity of the group or church they now meet with. I recall being admonished for publishing the contact of the church of one such person. If we are prepared to label the 2x2's as being secretive; isolated; wanting to keep under the radar and so on, then why do ex-2x2 Christians overwhelmingly suppress the identity of their Christian church (replace the term "church" with your preferred term)? To assist the members of this forum, can the Christians who contribute please provide the church (group or whatever) they are now following? This would surely help 2x2's to determine how their own church compares with the churches that each ex-2x2 believes to be a satisfactory alternative. Well, here is just a guess, as I do not meet with any particular group or church. (And, I don't think I ever will.) Most would consider themselves a follower of Christ rather than any particular belief system, and probably do not find naming a particular affiliation as being all that relevant. Most would leave their current affiliation in an instant, if it did not line up with their expectations. Correct!
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 16:17:22 GMT -5
** That is your belief and many exes but NOT. Most of the worker and the friends. Brandon from Texas was asked NOT to speak in his Sunday morning meetings and at convention because he was disturbing the meetings with rants for saying how good the church he had been attending with his girlfriend, whom he later married. Brandon eventually, left the meetings on his own and attend his girlfriend church. Yes, I’m well aware most 2x2s think they’re the only true church. This an heresy! Simply because they didn’t intend to become a church but jealousy got them to quit sending their converts to other churches because they would find out that the two by two church was a “grand experiment “! That doesn’t tend to set well with people to find out their experimental subjects! Then when the lie got started they went all the way back to the shores of Galilee, sure enough they needed to keep their converts out of contact with other Christians for again they might find out the truth that the 2x2 workers were started by a “grand experiment “! ** What a bunch of BALONEY! William Irvine and most of the 2x2 early workers and friends believedin Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry worked perfectly. They SAW in the lives of Faith Mission preachers and HE/Wlilliam Irv. Brought the gospel to them and MANY 2x2 professesed in his FM meetings. Some became FM mission as preachers, John Long became FM prayer union memembers from 1898-1924. Many of William's converts did not want to join the FM or go back to the churches they came out of or join other churches they became 2x2s instead. They KNEW Jesus 2x2 ministry works and they want to follow His apostolic ministry and the New Testament form of fellowship= Worshipng the Godhead... Father, Christ and Holy Spirit in their Sunday morning gathering like they did in the 1st century.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 16:42:13 GMT -5
Yes, I’m well aware most 2x2s think they’re the only true church. This an heresy! Simply because they didn’t intend to become a church but jealousy got them to quit sending their converts to other churches because they would find out that the two by two church was a “grand experiment “! That doesn’t tend to set well with people to find out their experimental subjects! Then when the lie got started they went all the way back to the shores of Galilee, sure enough they needed to keep their converts out of contact with other Christians for again they might find out the truth that the 2x2 workers were started by a “grand experiment “! ** What a bunch of BALONEY! William Irvine and most of the 2x2 early workers and friends believedin Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry worked perfectly. They SAW in the lives of Faith Mission preachers and HE/Wlilliam Irv. Brought the gospel to them and MANY 2x2 professesed in his FM meetings. Some became FM mission as preachers, John Long became FM prayer union memembers from 1898-1924. Many of William's converts did not want to join the FM or go back to the churches they came out of or join other churches they became 2x2s instead. They KNEW Jesus 2x2 ministry works and they want to follow His apostolic ministry and the New Testament form of fellowship= Worshipng the Godhead... Father, Christ and Holy Spirit in their Sunday morning gathering like they did in the 1st century. As I said “a grand experiment “!
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 17:28:35 GMT -5
cop out....ex's have already left the truth and have already been condemned from the get go or at least according to ex's testimonies on here...whats best is being honest and not deliberately omitting information for the debate to be balanced and fair... I don't think it is a cop out. Leaving a church is one thing but joining a church that is considered 'false' is not only a betrayal in the leaving but a statement that "I think you are wrong." in the minds of those who remain. Leaving as an atheist is probably easier because you reject not only the beliefs of the denomination but the beliefs of the religion. Personally my family interacts with many professing people and so far have not had negative experiences except from an occasional young child who is parroting what they hear. Of course, I have no idea what is said when we are not around but then, I don't really care. Setting clear 'ground rules' from the start has made things easier. I think you're right. Being an atheist you already know what all theists think of you. And, we really don't care because to us belief without evidence makes no sense. You can't scare someone with threats of hell when they don't believe there is a hell. You can't entice them with rewards of heavens when they don't believe there is a heaven. I too interacted with many of the friends when my parents were alive. Once I was an adult and my position was clear that I wasn't coming back, I really never had a problem with them. In fact, they were helpful and made me feel loved and included when mom and dad had to go into a nursing home and later at their funerals. I was lucky I suppose, but maybe it was because I really didn't care what they thought of me enough to get offended at the odd comment that was likely meant as a subtle jab.
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 17:31:27 GMT -5
BobW asked me and Wally a question so, I answered him truthfully and honestly. That was NO attacked against him, that is your OWN opinion came from your own head and you ATTACKING me. Nathan, you’ve been very strong in condemning any ex 2x2s and those who’ve joined other churches you’ve berated the hardest using scriptures to justify your condemnation. What I find interesting is that the condemnations can be backed up with verses in the same book you believe in. It's an interesting concept. The bible can be used to justify just about any interpretation anyone cares to hold.
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 17:41:26 GMT -5
cop out....ex's have already left the truth and have already been condemned from the get go or at least according to ex's testimonies on here...whats best is being honest and not deliberately omitting information for the debate to be balanced and fair... What I don't quite understand is your assumption that exes have left "the truth" ,when in reality they are in search of TRUTH or have already found THE TRUTH and decided to get out of the 2x2 box .It's just a 'box 'really where people have a misguided feeling of safety. And isn't that exactly what it should be? People should be allowed to attend where they feel most comfortable without being told they are going to hell just because they don't attend the same church and the doctrine is a little different. Christians believe in Jesus and the Christian God. Some believe that is one and the same and some don't. But it makes no sense to me how anyone who says they give their lives to Jesus, whoever or whatever that means to them, is somehow not going to the Christian heaven? It's right there in the bible that Jesus dwells within a person, and not a temple made from hands. I take that to mean it's what's in people's hearts not where they worship or find fellowship. To fight over doctrine when it's supposed to be about loving Jesus doesn't seem right to me.
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 17:47:45 GMT -5
I notice other 2x2s on here say ‘a word in season’ so to speak. They don’t take over this proboard with repetitive quoting of fire and brimstone. It may be in the bible but it is not necessary to be continually quoting it like the harping spouse. However it has gone on for 20 years and will continue for the next 20 years that’s for sure. Enjoy folks. Which is exactly why I don't let it get to me anymore. He is what he is. He will never change. We can spend our time being upset with him or just accept him as he is. Personally I prefer to just not let it get to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 18:17:05 GMT -5
We attended a small non denominational quasi Baptist Church for about a year, but we don't currently attend a church now. However, that's not saying much, as I am not a very great Christian by traditional belief standards, and not a believer in organized religion in general.
If there was a Nietzsche Church of Nihilistic Existentialism, I would alternate Sundays between it and the Pascal Church of Hopeless Optimism. Both can be attended with fishing rod in hand, or else laying in a field at night, gazing at the stars.
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 18:33:47 GMT -5
Which is exactly why I don't let it get to me anymore. He is what he is. He will never change. We can spend our time being upset with him or just accept him as he is. Personally I prefer to just not let it get to me. Wish I could get out and experience the beauty of my garden. Two reasons I can’t, this damn knee & back pain...and today it’s cold and raining. But I planted all my pots on deck with beautiful flowers before op and looking at them is therapeutic. Also time to put on a C.D and do some of these knee exercises! Yes, not being able to get out and do what you love makes it worse for sure. I sure hope you recover quickly so you can get back to the things you enjoy. Hugs.
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Post by snow on Aug 21, 2019 18:36:43 GMT -5
We attended a small non denominational quasi Baptist Church for about a year, but we don't currently attend a church now. However, that's not saying much, as I am not a very great Christian by traditional belief standards, and not a believer in organized religion in general. If there was a Nietzsche Church of Nihilistic Existentialism, I would alternate Sundays between it and the Pascal Church of Hopeless Optimism. Both can be attended with fishing rod in hand, or else laying in a field at night, gazing at the stars. Have you tried any Humanist organizations. Some have churches where anyone can attend and I know of a few atheists here that attend them too. They aren't based on traditional religious beliefs as much as a gathering for fellowship for those who care about others and they sometimes get together and do things to help out in charities etc too.
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Post by joanna on Aug 21, 2019 19:13:40 GMT -5
SharonArnold . I wonder if having been in the 2x2's and left increases the likelihood of choosing to avoid meeting with any particular group or church? However there is a considerable number of ex-2x2's who have joined groups and churches, and they continue to contribute to this and on other forums to express their concerns with the 2x2 grp. Putting ourselves in the shoes of 2x2's who are inevitably reading those criticisms, they would surely like to know what church/group the ex joined which provides that which the 2x2grp failed to do so? Given their new affiliation is positive, it makes sense to share the name of this church or group. Then those 2x2 members who are in doubt can look into the differences. Like some have already previously revealed, the identity of your church/group should not be something to hide.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 19:20:34 GMT -5
I left two by twos due to the history, the CSA hidden for years, the Michigan debacle, Ira Hobbs and the way he was complimented though discharged and due to the radical changes in some workers I’d known before they went into the work who became fornicators and rapists. Some having children but denying those children of a right to be raised and loved by their natural parents..
I’m staying out because they do not believe that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh thus I feel they shall be as Jesus said some of those whom he’ll say he never knew them because they don’t know who he is, though they mouth they believe in him but have their faith in their church not Jesus. Kinda a dead end street , IMo.
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Post by Gene on Aug 21, 2019 19:40:25 GMT -5
cop out....ex's have already left the truth and have already been condemned from the get go or at least according to ex's testimonies on here...whats best is being honest and not deliberately omitting information for the debate to be balanced and fair... I don't think it is a cop out. Leaving a church is one thing but joining a church that is considered 'false' is not only a betrayal in the leaving but a statement that "I think you are wrong." in the minds of those who remain. Leaving as an atheist is probably easier because you reject not only the beliefs of the denomination but the beliefs of the religion. Personally my family interacts with many professing people and so far have not had negative experiences except from an occasional young child who is parroting what they hear. Of course, I have no idea what is said when we are not around but then, I don't really care. Setting clear 'ground rules' from the start has made things easier. I'd be interested in the ground rules you set, if you don't mind sharing.
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Post by rational on Aug 21, 2019 19:49:43 GMT -5
We attended a small non denominational quasi Baptist Church for about a year, but we don't currently attend a church now. However, that's not saying much, as I am not a very great Christian by traditional belief standards, and not a believer in organized religion in general. If there was a Nietzsche Church of Nihilistic Existentialism, I would alternate Sundays between it and the Pascal Church of Hopeless Optimism. Both can be attended with fishing rod in hand, or else laying in a field at night, gazing at the stars. And wondering why god made mosquitoes!
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Post by joanna on Aug 21, 2019 19:54:09 GMT -5
@ipsedixit Lead me to them however i'd opt out of the fishing rod part (as fish are beautiful and they feel pain) and instead go for the gazing at the stars. Camping out is a lovely experience.
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Post by Gene on Aug 21, 2019 19:54:52 GMT -5
We attended a small non denominational quasi Baptist Church for about a year, but we don't currently attend a church now. However, that's not saying much, as I am not a very great Christian by traditional belief standards, and not a believer in organized religion in general. If there was a Nietzsche Church of Nihilistic Existentialism, I would alternate Sundays between it and the Pascal Church of Hopeless Optimism. Both can be attended with fishing rod in hand, or else laying in a field at night, gazing at the stars. And wondering why god made mosquitoes! What a silly question. Obviously, the Godly provision of mosquitoes saves you from having to find leeches to perform a blood-letting, when a blood-letting is called for.
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Post by nathan on Aug 21, 2019 20:03:45 GMT -5
We attended a small non denominational quasi Baptist Church for about a year, but we don't currently attend a church now. However, that's not saying much, as I am not a very great Christian by traditional belief standards, and not a believer in organized religion in general. If there was a Nietzsche Church of Nihilistic Existentialism, I would alternate Sundays between it and the Pascal Church of Hopeless Optimism. Both can be attended with fishing rod in hand, or else laying in a field at night, gazing at the stars. And wondering why god made mosquitoes! God wants To remind people, this earth is a blood sucking place so look for a better home in heaven, there are no mosquitoes to bother you with Zika Virus.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2019 23:44:58 GMT -5
Which is exactly why I don't let it get to me anymore. He is what he is. He will never change. We can spend our time being upset with him or just accept him as he is. Personally I prefer to just not let it get to me. Wish I could get out and experience the beauty of my garden. Two reasons I can’t, this damn knee & back pain...and today it’s cold and raining. But I planted all my pots on deck with beautiful flowers before op and looking at them is therapeutic. Also time to put on a C.D and do some of these knee exercises! Being off one leg can exerbate back problems! I know when I was on crutches for 10 weeks my back hurt worse then my leg! Dr said it was because of the need to not balance weight on both feet alike.
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