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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 19:39:33 GMT -5
your right i am using the spirit to try and communicate with you but your too far gone to reach in your own limited understanding wish it were different comme ci comme ça Wally, Jesus was fully man(that is what died) and he was fully God that’s the Spirit he commended into the Father’s keeping. His human body was blood letted to make sure he was dead by the soldiers(blood is life-giving, people don’t live long without it.). His human body was put into the sepulcher. He was risen on the third day on first day of the week, his Spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. He went and preached the gospel to the desth’s Captives from the OT that had been faithful in believing God’s promise to Abraham. His body was a resurrected body, so he could go by his Spirit where he needed to go, which we see when he appeared to the Apostles later that same first day of the week, the doors were closed. It was his human body that was the sacrifice for the world’s sins. It is his human person(Named Jesus) that had not been to heaven but his God person had when he was on the cross and commended his Spirit into his Father’s hands. So after he came out of the sepulcher, whole with resurrected pure human form(body) Mary saw him, he told her not to touch his pure resurrected body because his body had not been to heaven yet. It was his body he took to heaven unto the Holiest of Holies to present his body as the sacrifice for the sins of the world. What is so hard to understand about that. His God self could not die so it had to go to heaven for keeping until his resurrection was come. It is YOUR limited understanding that can’t grasp what is to be understood. Don’t forget Jesus was fully God then when he was prepared a body in Mary’s womb, he became fully man also. He didn’t lose his fully God self. That was his Spirit. That was his nature. He didn’t have to be born again in the Spirit by the Spirit because he is God. We face the same thing except we have to be born again in the spirit by the Spirit. Then when we die from earthly life, our spirits are returned to our creator, Paradise, but our bodies have to be disposed of by burial or cremation. BUT in Resurrection Day our rotted, corrupted bodies will be raised incorrupted and our born again spirits will be reunited with those resurrected human bodies. What’s so difficult about that. The reality and the spiritual are covered by what I’ve said. No lying, no confusion but on yours and Nathan’s part. little of that has to do with the location of paradise its all fluff on your part...sad really....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 19:51:31 GMT -5
Wally, Jesus was fully man(that is what died) and he was fully God that’s the Spirit he commended into the Father’s keeping. His human body was blood letted to make sure he was dead by the soldiers(blood is life-giving, people don’t live long without it.). His human body was put into the sepulcher. He was risen on the third day on first day of the week, his Spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. He went and preached the gospel to the desth’s Captives from the OT that had been faithful in believing God’s promise to Abraham. His body was a resurrected body, so he could go by his Spirit where he needed to go, which we see when he appeared to the Apostles later that same first day of the week, the doors were closed. It was his human body that was the sacrifice for the world’s sins. It is his human person(Named Jesus) that had not been to heaven but his God person had when he was on the cross and commended his Spirit into his Father’s hands. So after he came out of the sepulcher, whole with resurrected pure human form(body) Mary saw him, he told her not to touch his pure resurrected body because his body had not been to heaven yet. It was his body he took to heaven unto the Holiest of Holies to present his body as the sacrifice for the sins of the world. What is so hard to understand about that. His God self could not die so it had to go to heaven for keeping until his resurrection was come. It is YOUR limited understanding that can’t grasp what is to be understood. Don’t forget Jesus was fully God then when he was prepared a body in Mary’s womb, he became fully man also. He didn’t lose his fully God self. That was his Spirit. That was his nature. He didn’t have to be born again in the Spirit by the Spirit because he is God. We face the same thing except we have to be born again in the spirit by the Spirit. Then when we die from earthly life, our spirits are returned to our creator, Paradise, but our bodies have to be disposed of by burial or cremation. BUT in Resurrection Day our rotted, corrupted bodies will be raised incorrupted and our born again spirits will be reunited with those resurrected human bodies. What’s so difficult about that. The reality and the spiritual are covered by what I’ve said. No lying, no confusion but on yours and Nathan’s part. little of that has to do with the location of paradise its all fluff on your part...sad really.... Sadly on your part it does have a lot to do with Paradise which is wher the Father and the Son are. Where is Paradise? www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_149.cfmwww.ministersclub.com/bible-answers/where-is-paradise-located www.gotquestions.org/paradise.htmlwww.compellingtruth.org/paradise.htmlThe only place I’ve found that has a different interpretation of Paradise is the Jehovah witness and they believe Paradise is on earth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 19:59:11 GMT -5
then you didn't read the link i provided earlier....good to know things aren't reciprocal
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 20:11:32 GMT -5
then you didn't read the link i provided earlier....good to know things aren't reciprocal I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 21:27:55 GMT -5
then you didn't read the link i provided earlier....good to know things aren't reciprocal I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari Jesus said “Father, I commit my spirit” is probably capitalized. The Bible wasn’t trying to make an emphasis; Jesus was actually quoting Scripture. With the very last sentence of His life, Jesus quoted Psalms 31:5. We all KNOW king David did NOT enter heaven after he said that, his body went to the grave/sheol and his soul went to Hades but he stayed on the Paradise side or Abraham's Bosom NOT on the torment/regret side/place Luke 16.
There is nowhere it says Jesus was going to paradise in heaven after he said that! That was your opinion. Jesus was quoting scripture of the Psalms of king David Ps. 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.
STR, I just want to let you KNOW, I appreciate and agree with what you wrote we just disagree in minor places.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 22:09:37 GMT -5
I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari Jesus said “Father, I commit my spirit” is probably capitalized. The Bible wasn’t trying to make an emphasis; Jesus was actually quoting Scripture. With the very last sentence of His life, Jesus quoted Psalms 31:5.
There is nowhere it says Jesus was going to paradise in heaven after he said that! That was your opinion. Jesus was quoting scripture of the Psalms of king David Ps. 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.
MNathan, Jesus’ spirit is God, he could not die nor was there any reason for him to be captive in the graves like the OT faithful. He said on the cross to the thief “Thou shalt be WITH ME in Paradise today.” The thief died after Jesus died and his blood was spilled. So the thief’s spirit had every right as ours do to go to heaven when he died! As well Jesus did also. Jesus’ spirit went to heaven when he said, “Father, I commend my spirit into your hands.” How much plainer can he have been. The “ Firstborn of the dead” is in reference to a resurrected Jesus body with his living spirit reunited ascended into heaven. By this he is the “firstborn” of the dead. The first resurrected human body to ascend into heaven. The captives he released have their spirits in heaven now but have to wait for their resurrected bodies just like we do. He cried, “My God, my God! Why hast thou forsaken me?” This was seconds before he bowed his head and died. That which he shared with the Father since the Father had begot him had to let his human body die because his God self could not die. This was the spirit he commended into his Father keeping. Have you not, also said the “saved “ people’s souls/spirits go to heaven when they die and will be there until Resurrection when their spirits will be reunited with a resurrected pure body. Why do you not grant Jesus the same thought of courtesy after all he was perfect, he was God! He didn’t have to be released from the grips of death like the OT saints did. He had not sinned so he didn’t even have to come under the sound of the gospel because he is the gospel. What is wrong with you?
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 22:18:12 GMT -5
Jesus said “Father, I commit my spirit” is probably capitalized. The Bible wasn’t trying to make an emphasis; Jesus was actually quoting Scripture. With the very last sentence of His life, Jesus quoted Psalms 31:5.
There is nowhere it says Jesus was going to paradise in heaven after he said that! That was your opinion. Jesus was quoting scripture of the Psalms of king David Ps. 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.
MNathan, Jesus’ spirit is God, he could not die nor was there any reason for him to be captive in the graves like the OT faithful. He said on the cross to the thief “Thou shalt be WITH ME in Paradise today.” The thief died after Jesus died and his blood was spilled. So the thief’s spirit had every right as ours do to go to heaven when he died! As well Jesus did also. Jesus’ spirit went to heaven when he said, “Father, I commend my spirit into your hands.” How much plainer can he have been. The “ Firstborn of the dead” is in reference to a resurrected Jesus body with his living spirit reunited ascended into heaven. By this he is the “firstborn” of the dead. The first resurrected human body to ascend into heaven. The captives he released have their spirits in heaven now but have to wait for their resurrected bodies just like we do. He cried, “My God, my God! Why hast thou forsaken me?” This was seconds before he bowed his head and died. That which he shared with the Father since the Father had begot him had to let his human body die because his God self could not die. This was the spirit he commended into his Father keeping. Have you not, also said the “saved “ people’s souls/spirits go to heaven when they die and will be there until Resurrection when their spirits will be reunited with a resurrected pure body. Why do you not grant Jesus the same thought of courtesy after all he was perfect, he was God! He didn’t have to be released from the grips of death like the OT saints did. He had not sinned so he didn’t even have to come under the sound of the gospel because he is the gospel. What is wrong with you? There is NOTHING wrong with me. I posted this before you reply: STR, I just want to let you KNOW, I appreciate and agree with what you wrote we just disagree in minor places. ALL you, Wally and myself can do is to share what we KNOW and UNDERSTAND but let the readers draw their own conclusion on these things for themselves.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 22:26:26 GMT -5
MNathan, Jesus’ spirit is God, he could not die nor was there any reason for him to be captive in the graves like the OT faithful. He said on the cross to the thief “Thou shalt be WITH ME in Paradise today.” The thief died after Jesus died and his blood was spilled. So the thief’s spirit had every right as ours do to go to heaven when he died! As well Jesus did also. Jesus’ spirit went to heaven when he said, “Father, I commend my spirit into your hands.” How much plainer can he have been. The “ Firstborn of the dead” is in reference to a resurrected Jesus body with his living spirit reunited ascended into heaven. By this he is the “firstborn” of the dead. The first resurrected human body to ascend into heaven. The captives he released have their spirits in heaven now but have to wait for their resurrected bodies just like we do. He cried, “My God, my God! Why hast thou forsaken me?” This was seconds before he bowed his head and died. That which he shared with the Father since the Father had begot him had to let his human body die because his God self could not die. This was the spirit he commended into his Father keeping. Have you not, also said the “saved “ people’s souls/spirits go to heaven when they die and will be there until Resurrection when their spirits will be reunited with a resurrected pure body. Why do you not grant Jesus the same thought of courtesy after all he was perfect, he was God! He didn’t have to be released from the grips of death like the OT saints did. He had not sinned so he didn’t even have to come under the sound of the gospel because he is the gospel. What is wrong with you? There is NOTHING wrong with me. I posted this before you reply: STR, I just want to let you KNOW, I appreciate and agree with what you wrote we just disagree in minor places. ALL you, Wally and myself can do is to share what we KNOW and let the readers draw their own conclusion on these things for themselves.
Yours and Wally’s problem is you think Abraham’s bosum is Paradise. But Uve explained to you it can’t be Paradise when one is a captive but it just means it is was the faithfuls’ comfort because Abraham had received the promise of salvation. Now as to another way to understand that the thief’s spirit entered into heaven the same day Jesus’ did is to remember what Jesus said, “The first shall be last and the last shall be first.” The thief’s spirit was the first spirit to go directly to heaven (all others before were held captives in the grave) when he died because Jesus’ ’ death and spilled blood covered his sins and he believed in Jesus Christ. He was Jesus’ last convert, directly so saved by Jesus while he was still alive on the earth.
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 22:45:47 GMT -5
There is NOTHING wrong with me. I posted this before you reply: STR, I just want to let you KNOW, I appreciate and agree with what you wrote we just disagree in minor places. ALL you, Wally and myself can do is to share what we KNOW and let the readers draw their own conclusion on these things for themselves.
Yours and Wally’s problem is you think Abraham’s bosum is Paradise. But I've explained to you it can’t be Paradise when one is a captive but it just means it is was the faithfuls’ comfort because Abraham had received the promise of salvation. Now as to another way to understand that the thief’s spirit entered into heaven the same day Jesus’ did is to remember what Jesus said, “The first shall be last and the last shall be first.” The thief’s spirit was the first spirit to go directly to heaven (all others before were held captives in the grave) when he died because Jesus’ ’ death and spilled blood covered his sins and he believed in Jesus Christ. He was Jesus’ last convert, directly so saved by Jesus while he was still alive on the earth. Wally and I have shared our view that There are two paradise, one on earth and the other paradise in is heaven/Venus. The Garden of Eden, also called Paradise, is the biblical "garden of God" described in the Book of Genesis and the Book of Ezekiel.
There is an Inner Earth and the Garden of Eden is at the center of the Earth thousands of miles down, directly underneath the Cave of Makhpelah. The astounding proclamation is stated every so clearly in the Zohar and in other ancient sources.
The existence of Inner Earth should come as a surprise to no one. Such knowledge has long been known in ancient cultures for thousands of years, even expanding across the oceans. Even the ancient Native American Hopis know of these places. Even in the realm of science there have been some famous names who embrace what has become known as the Hollow Earth theory. Such scientists include amongst others Sir Edmund Haley, famous for the comet named after his discovery Haley's comet.
The existence of Inner or Hollow Earth is much more than a mere theological statement made by the Torah Sages. There have been numerous encounters between surface dwelling human beings and the numerous other types of life that inhabit the inner realms. Not all such encounters have been benign. Our Sages have outlined that Inner Earth is actually divided up in seven sections which in Hebrew are called the Sheva Artzot. These are enumerated in detail in the Zohar (Hashmetut 1, 254a; Hesed L'Avraham 2,4 and Emek HaMelekh, Sha'ar 21). While some modern so-called Rabbis want to describe the Sheva Artzot as all being land masses here on the surface of the Earth, those proclaiming this are doing so untruthfully. They are either not reading what our Sages have taught or they are lying about what our Sages have taught.
The Garden of Eden is said to be only one of the many locations in Inner Earth. The Zohar teaches that it was here that Adam materialized on Earth; it was from the center-most domain (Eden) in Inner Earth that he was cast out; it was in other domains in Inner Earth that he lived and that Kayin and Abel were born. It is even stated that Adam left numerous other progeny throughout Inner Earth over the centuries of his life.
The Garden of Eden is said to be only one of the many locations in Inner Earth. The Zohar teaches that it was here that Adam materialized on Earth; it was from the center-most domain (Eden) in Inner Earth that he was cast out; it was in other domains in Inner Earth that he lived and that Kayin and Abel were born. It is even stated that Adam left numerous other progeny throughout Inner Earth over the centuries of his life.
The Zohar says that many who escaped the destruction of the Tower of Babel did so by relocating to Inner Earth. Inner Earth has long been said to be the domain of the fallen angels and the Nephilim mentioned in Genesis 6.
Inner Earth is said to also be the domain of many animals which we have long considered to be mythological, such as the unicorn, the phoenix, the minotaur, centaur and dragon (ref. Hesed L'Avraham 2:4). Inner Earth inhabitants are said to come in many different shapes and sizes, from what we would call giants, to the likes of what would call hobbits; indeed, there is even said to be a head of two headed human beings. All these things are proclaimed by our Sages to be physically real.
There are many races of indigenous intelligent sentient entities living in Inner Earth. Many of these species know about us and many of them have interacted with us for a very long time. Some of these races are benign or even benevolent. Others on the other hand are nothing but trouble.
One of these troublesome races are referred to as the Nishaya, after the name of their domain. They are one of the “Shedim” (demons) spoken of by our Sages throughout the centuries. The Zohar and other literature describes their appearance as being frail, short, with a greyish skin-tone, no noses, just slits to breath/The GREYS. Allegedly they have no females of their species and thus seek our human females with which to procreate. Many might recognize the similarities between the Nishaya and modern day so-called extraterrestrials and so-called alien abductions.
The Garden of Eden is thus accepted by our Sages as a physical domain deep inside Inner Earth.
www.koshertorah.com/PDF/eden.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 23:01:27 GMT -5
then you didn't read the link i provided earlier....good to know things aren't reciprocal I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safarithen niether was abrahams bosom a "place of captivity" if you understood it correctly you would know that "captive" is a suitable word for a place(paradise) that is hell adjacent...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 23:04:33 GMT -5
I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safariniether was abrahams bosom a "captives cell" if you understood it correctly you would know that "captive" is a suitable word for a place(paradise) that is hell adjacent... Wally, those spirits were trapped in the grave and would be there until the Messiah had been crucified, his blood spilled to cover their sins, just like it does for us. The difference is they died before Jesus came to earth, so death had a grip on them that only Jesus could free them from. It isn’t Parsdise unless God and his Son are there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 23:07:51 GMT -5
niether was abrahams bosom a "captives cell" if you understood it correctly you would know that "captive" is a suitable word for a place(paradise) that is hell adjacent... Wally, those spirits were trapped in the grave and would be there until the Messiah had been crucified, his blood spilled to cover their sins, just like it does for us. The difference is they died before Jesus came to earth, so death had a grip on them that only Jesus could free them from. It isn’t Parsdise unless God and his Son are there. your confused again...now its the grave instead of abrahams bosom or paradise....
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 23:30:39 GMT -5
I did read it and he made no comment that Jesus had commended his spirit into the Father’s hands while he was on the cross just as he hung his head and died. So this man’s interpretation is wrong. As I said, there’s no way in this world or that to come Paradise could be where someone is held captive, spiritually or physically. That does not fit the definition of Paradise. Paradise - www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+Paradise&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safarithen niether was abrahams bosom a "place of captivity" if you understood it correctly you would know that "captive" is a suitable word for a place(paradise) that is hell adjacent... Amen, Wally.... TWO places: Abraham's bosom/Paradise/inner earth/Garden of Eden..... Hell
Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 8:21:59 GMT -5
Wally, those spirits were trapped in the grave and would be there until the Messiah had been crucified, his blood spilled to cover their sins, just like it does for us. The difference is they died before Jesus came to earth, so death had a grip on them that only Jesus could free them from. It isn’t Parsdise unless God and his Son are there. your confused again...now its the grave instead of abrahams bosom or paradise.... If that were true then Jesus would not have had to go into the lowest parts of the earth and preach the gospel to the captive spirits and set the faithful captives free. It’s my understanding that Jesus preached the gospel to all in the graves, the lost and the saints. To release the saints from the grip of death(victory over death) and to set the judgment against the lost. gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/releasing-the-captives/
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 8:27:05 GMT -5
Wally, those spirits were trapped in the grave and would be there until the Messiah had been crucified, his blood spilled to cover their sins, just like it does for us. The difference is they died before Jesus came to earth, so death had a grip on them that only Jesus could free them from. It isn’t Parsdise unless God and his Son are there. your confused again...now its the grave instead of abrahams bosom or paradise.... To be held in someone’s bosom means a place of comfort or they hold love for you. My bible references a verse in John 1:18 “No man hath see God at any time; the only begotten “Son, which is in the bosum of the Father, “ he hath declared him. Jesus was not actually in the Father’s bosom, but the Father held him dear to his heart.
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Post by rational on Aug 30, 2019 9:19:44 GMT -5
** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father. yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them.
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Post by nathan on Aug 30, 2019 9:32:52 GMT -5
your confused again...now its the grave instead of abrahams bosom or paradise.... If that were true then Jesus would not have had to go into the lowest parts of the earth and preach the gospel to the captive spirits and set the faithful captives free. It’s my understanding that Jesus preached the gospel to all in the graves, the lost and the saints. To release the saints from the grip of death(victory over death) and to set the judgment against the lost. gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/releasing-the-captives/*** According to Jesus teaching in Luke 16. The Rich man didn't have a second chance to hear the gospel. Death sealed our eternal destiny whether to Hades or heaven. Jesus Spirit went to Hades to bring good new to the Ok Test believers that He came for them to take them to his home in heaven.
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Post by nathan on Aug 30, 2019 9:34:59 GMT -5
yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them. *** People do it here all the time.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 9:48:43 GMT -5
If that were true then Jesus would not have had to go into the lowest parts of the earth and preach the gospel to the captive spirits and set the faithful captives free. It’s my understanding that Jesus preached the gospel to all in the graves, the lost and the saints. To release the saints from the grip of death(victory over death) and to set the judgment against the lost. gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/releasing-the-captives/*** According to Jesus teaching in Luke 16. The Rich man didn't have a second chance to hear the gospel. Death sealed our eternal destiny whether to Hades or heaven. Jesus Spirit went to Hades to bring good new to the Ok Test believers that He came for them to take them to his home in heaven. He did have a chance to hear the gospel, Jesus preached to ALL the captives in the graves. He set the saints free when his blood was shed. He preached the gospel not to give a second chance to anyone, but to tell that God’s promise to Abraham had been fulfilled. Those who believed were released, those who hadn’t believed were kept captives until Judgment Day but they know that the Messiah did come. What greater punishment can be had then to know salvation did come just as promised and you didn’t believe?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 9:52:15 GMT -5
yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them. Thank you. Rational! He thinks I go it alone with my beliefs, but I find I have pretty wonderful fellowship with like believers from many different sources! And I rarely know if they have Christian church affiliation or not! Besides of the power of the Holy Spirit amongst us. Though out of respect you don’t believe in a Holy Spirit but I do fine respect for you in many ways and thankfully so! 😊
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Post by nathan on Aug 30, 2019 10:11:34 GMT -5
*** According to Jesus teaching in Luke 16. The Rich man didn't have a second chance to hear the gospel. Death sealed our eternal destiny whether to Hades or heaven. Jesus Spirit went to Hades to bring good new to the Ok Test believers that He came for them to take them to his home in heaven. He did have a chance to hear the gospel, Jesus preached to ALL the captives in the graves. He set the saints free when his blood was shed. He preached the gospel not to give a second chance to anyone, but to tell that God’s promise to Abraham had been fulfilled. Those who believed were released, those who hadn’t believed were kept captives until Judgment Day but they know that the Messiah did come. What greater punishment can be had then to know salvation did come just as promised and you didn’t believe? ** Sorry, I disagree. Reading from Jesus teaching in Luke 16. The gulf already FIXED! The Rich man couldn't come to Abraham side/paradise and they couldn't go to where the Rich man's side of torment either. The Rich man had his chance and opportunity on earth hearing about God through Lazarus preaching/testimonies. Christ came down to Hades to take the Old Test believers to his heavenly home.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 10:51:12 GMT -5
He did have a chance to hear the gospel, Jesus preached to ALL the captives in the graves. He set the saints free when his blood was shed. He preached the gospel not to give a second chance to anyone, but to tell that God’s promise to Abraham had been fulfilled. Those who believed were released, those who hadn’t believed were kept captives until Judgment Day but they know that the Messiah did come. What greater punishment can be had then to know salvation did come just as promised and you didn’t believe? ** Sorry, I disagree from reading Jesus teaching Luke 16. The gulf already FIXED! The Rich man couldn't come to Abraham side/paradise and they couldn't go to where the Rich man's side of torment either. The Rich man had his chance and opportunity on earth hearing about God through Lazarus preaching/testimonies. Much has been made out of this “parable”. It was a parable not a true story. Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees and their self-righteous behaviors. Please read the following link. www.biblestudy.org/basicart/rich-man-and-lazarus-parable.html
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 11:31:23 GMT -5
yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them. so is saying people are not " using their head"...or disparaging their education or intelligence like you do....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 11:35:14 GMT -5
** Sorry, I disagree from reading Jesus teaching Luke 16. The gulf already FIXED! The Rich man couldn't come to Abraham side/paradise and they couldn't go to where the Rich man's side of torment either. The Rich man had his chance and opportunity on earth hearing about God through Lazarus preaching/testimonies. Much has been made out of this “parable”. It was a parable not a true story. Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees and their self-righteous behaviors. Please read the following link. www.biblestudy.org/basicart/rich-man-and-lazarus-parable.htmlJesus always said whether he was speaking a parable or not in the case of the hell story he did NOT say parable
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 12:25:02 GMT -5
Jesus always said whether he was speaking a parable or not in the case of the hell story he did NOT say parable He did say in Chspter 15 he was speaking a parable and as time went by and conditions changed or audience changed he continued and ended up telling 5 parables or stories from chapter 15-16. This explains it all in the context of the days of Jesus and the Bible entirely. tentmaker.org/books/abrahams_bosom.html
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2019 12:27:29 GMT -5
Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them. so is saying people are not " using their head"...or disparaging their education or intelligence like you do.... Use your head is indicative that whoever says that thinks you are intelligent enough to grasp what is being said. Not calling you a liar , but asking you to think about it don’t push it away before you do think upon it. No insult at all.
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Post by rational on Aug 30, 2019 13:30:29 GMT -5
Calling someone a liar because you do not agree with their beliefs is uncalled for. What is a real church? Number of members? A lot of converts bounced their ideas off of Jim Jones and/or Marshall Applewhite and it didn't end that well for them. so is saying people are not " using their head"...or disparaging their education or intelligence like you do.... You are right. When someone makes the claim that they developed a complex theory that involved some rather complex physics understanding and then complains that the language used to disprove the theory is too complex and needs to be brought to a lower level indicates that they have been untruthful regarding their education and understanding and questioning their claim is to be expected - it is questioning facts that have been presented. I this case it is the one belief compared to another belief, neither supported by verifiable evidence. It would be like calling somsone a liar if they said they believed it was going to rain next week. There is no basis upon which to judge whether that is or is not what they believe. You may believe in god(s) or elves. I think that belief is crazy and unfounded but I have no way of knowing what whether you believe that or not.
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Post by nathan on Aug 30, 2019 15:15:51 GMT -5
** Sorry, I disagree from reading Jesus teaching Luke 16. The gulf already FIXED! The Rich man couldn't come to Abraham side/paradise and they couldn't go to where the Rich man's side of torment either. The Rich man had his chance and opportunity on earth hearing about God through Lazarus preaching/testimonies. Much has been made out of this “parable”. It was a parable not a true story. Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees and their self-righteous behaviors. Please read the following link. www.biblestudy.org/basicart/rich-man-and-lazarus-parable.html*** Sorry, it was not a story but facts of life because this is what has been going on for 4000 yrs and Jesus/God Revealed to humans Life After death in the Old Test time. Then Christ/God revealed to Paul to show The believers after death their souls go directly to be with Christ in heaven, they no longer go to hades like the Old test believers because he had paid the ransom price for their sins.
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