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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 9:57:47 GMT -5
You don't understand and maybe you will never get it. Paradise on earth is the Garden of Eden and that is INSIDE the inner earth. I have told you folks for years, God has created the earth within the earth... Like the baby in the Mother's womb or the baby chick within the egg. So, Billions intelligence beings who God has created on/in zillions planets in each Galaxy can live on the inside and also on the surface if the temperature allows to do so. Garden of Eden is approximately where the Dead Sea is, thus the flaming sword. In Ezekiel 47 we read about the healing of those waters except for the marshes and Mirey places. This is when Jesus reigns his millennial reign. The tree(s) of life will heal the waters, they are evergreen, bearing fruit 12 months of the year. The leaves are also the healing of the nation’s. Abraham’s bosom is a place of comfort for those who had faith in God’s promise to Abraham about the coming Messiah. Some people call it a paradise but it does not match the descriptions of Paradise. Jesus said that the Son was in the Father’s bosom while he was on earth. He could not have been there physically because he was on earth physically. Being in someone’s bosom is a phrase that one is held in love there. It doesn’t mean one is in Paradise or actually in that person’s bosom. As Abraham had full and strong faith that God’s promise of Messiah would come, those that had faith like Abraham rested in Abraham’s bosom. A place of comfort. The believers in God’s promise to Abraham about a Messiah had to wait and hear Jesus’ gospel which means he had been crucified and their sins were forgiven them. They couldn’t be saved without the blood sacrifice of the Messiah. They were saved “by faith” but many didn’t see or know their salvation for many years so they rested on Abraham’s bosom or rested on their faith that the Messiah would save them bound in the graves by death. The difference is they were saved “by” faith, those since Jesus’ day are saved “through” faith. But all have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb. *** On Calvary Cross Jesus said to the repented sinner, "TODAY! Thou shall be with me in PARADISE!" after death Jesus body stayed in the grave/Sheol but His Spirit went to Hades with the thief to the Realm of the dead where ALL humans souls must go before Jesus paid the ransom price on Calvary. Christ's Spirit was in Hades 3 days and nights to preach the good news to the OLD Test believers who had been waiting there to be rescued by Him out of Hades. Paradise was where the souls of the Old Test believers were kept according to Jesus teaching in Luke 16 Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom/paradise no sufferings unlike the Rich man/unbelievers had endured in HELL. We read the graves opened and believers came out it showed to the Jews Jesus had paid the ransom price in FULL and they had been set free to enter heaven. After Jesus came out of Hades! He told Mary M. Not to touch him for he had NOT ascend to heaven/paradise. So, there are TWO paradise one on earth and one in heaven.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 10:46:03 GMT -5
Garden of Eden is approximately where the Dead Sea is, thus the flaming sword. In Ezekiel 47 we read about the healing of those waters except for the marshes and Mirey places. This is when Jesus reigns his millennial reign. The tree(s) of life will heal the waters, they are evergreen, bearing fruit 12 months of the year. The leaves are also the healing of the nation’s. Abraham’s bosom is a place of comfort for those who had faith in God’s promise to Abraham about the coming Messiah. Some people call it a paradise but it does not match the descriptions of Paradise. Jesus said that the Son was in the Father’s bosom while he was on earth. He could not have been there physically because he was on earth physically. Being in someone’s bosom is a phrase that one is held in love there. It doesn’t mean one is in Paradise or actually in that person’s bosom. As Abraham had full and strong faith that God’s promise of Messiah would come, those that had faith like Abraham rested in Abraham’s bosom. A place of comfort. The believers in God’s promise to Abraham about a Messiah had to wait and hear Jesus’ gospel which means he had been crucified and their sins were forgiven them. They couldn’t be saved without the blood sacrifice of the Messiah. They were saved “by faith” but many didn’t see or know their salvation for many years so they rested on Abraham’s bosom or rested on their faith that the Messiah would save them bound in the graves by death. The difference is they were saved “by” faith, those since Jesus’ day are saved “through” faith. But all have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb. *** On Calvary Cross Jesus said to the repented sinner, "TODAY! Thou shall be with me in PARADISE!" after death Jesus body stayed in the grave/Sheol but His Spirit went to Hades with the thief to the Realm of the dead where ALL humans souls must go before Jesus paid the ransom price on Calvary. Christ's Spirit was in Hades 3 days and nights to preach the good news to the OLD Test believers who had been waiting there to be rescued by Him out of Hades. Paradise was where the souls of the Old Test believers were kept according to Jesus teaching in Luke 16 Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom/paradise no sufferings unlike the Rich man/unbelievers had endured in HELL. We read the graves opened and believers came out it showed to the Jews Jesus had paid the ransom price in FULL and they had been set free to enter heaven. After Jesus came out of Hades! He told Mary M. Not to touch him for he had NOT ascend to heaven/paradise. So, there are TWO paradise one on earth and one in heaven. Jesus’ spirit went to heaven right while he was on the cross. He said, “Father, I commend to you my spirit.” His spirit was NOT in the grave, Hades for 3 days and nights. His body was but not his spirit! Since the thief died right after Jesus died, he was covered by the blood of Christ and his soul went directly to heaven just some minutes after Jesus’ did. Jesus was the firstborn of the dead. No one but Enoch and Elijah preceded him into heaven, but since the thief died right after Christ did, his soul is like those of us that have lived and died faithful SINCE Jesus’ death. His blood covered the thief ‘s sins and he did not have to be captive to death in the grave like the faithful who’d died BEFORE Jesus’ spilt blood covered their sins. The Bible does not say at what hour or day Jesus descended into the belly of the earth to visit the faithful souls who were captives of death in their graves. It was very likely just before the sepulcher was as opened on Sunday morning because Jesus’ spirit had been rejoined with his body. But they had to hear the gospel, to be covered by the blood of the Lamb before they could ascend into Paradise. They’d been faithful to God but they had not been cleansed of their sins until Jesus died in the cross and his blood was shed for the cleansing of their sins. They were “resting in Abraham ‘s bosom meaning they were comforted by the promise God would send the Messiah but they could not break the bonds of death until Jesus died and his blood was shed to cleanse them from their sins. Just because they were faithful to God didnt save them, they still had to hear the gospel and be saved by Jesus Christ. They could not have been in a Paradise because they were in bondage to death and sin.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 10:55:29 GMT -5
The graves that were opened while Jesus was on the cross, those people did not appear to others in the city until after Jesus’ resurrection. Some say those people had to die and be buried again, but I question that because if they were faithful ones but not saved until Jesys’ blood was shed, their spirits likely were freed to go to heaven. I don’t quit get what happened with their resurrected bodies but they may well have had to die again and buried to wait for Resurrection morning.
Just as Lazarus the brother of Mary and Martha, had to die again. But his spirit went to heaven but his body has to wait until resurrection morning. The first time he died his spirit was held captive in the grave. But not the second time because Jesus had died, his blood was spilled and he was resurrected.
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 11:45:42 GMT -5
*** On Calvary Cross Jesus said to the repented sinner, "TODAY! Thou shall be with me in PARADISE!" after death Jesus body stayed in the grave/Sheol but His Spirit went to Hades with the thief to the Realm of the dead where ALL humans souls must go before Jesus paid the ransom price on Calvary. Christ's Spirit was in Hades 3 days and nights to preach the good news to the OLD Test believers who had been waiting there to be rescued by Him out of Hades. Paradise was where the souls of the Old Test believers were kept according to Jesus teaching in Luke 16 Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom/paradise no sufferings unlike the Rich man/unbelievers had endured in HELL. We read the graves opened and believers came out it showed to the Jews Jesus had paid the ransom price in FULL and they had been set free to enter heaven. After Jesus came out of Hades! He told Mary M. Not to touch him for he had NOT ascend to heaven/paradise. So, there are TWO paradise one on earth and one in heaven. Jesus’ spirit went to heaven right while he was on the cross. He said, “Father, I commend to you my spirit.” His spirit was NOT in the grave, Hades for 3 days and nights. His body was but not his spirit! Since the thief died right after Jesus died, he was covered by the blood of Christ and his soul went directly to heaven just some minutes after Jesus’ did. Jesus was the firstborn of the dead. No one but Enoch and Elijah preceded him into heaven, but since the thief died right after Christ did, his soul is like those of us that have lived and died faithful SINCE Jesus’ death. His blood covered the thief ‘s sins and he did not have to be captive to death in the grave like the faithful who’d died BEFORE Jesus’ spilt blood covered their sins. The Bible does not say at what hour or day Jesus descended into the belly of the earth to visit the faithful souls who were captives of death in their graves. It was very likely just before the sepulcher was as opened on Sunday morning because Jesus’ spirit had been rejoined with his body. But they had to hear the gospel, to be covered by the blood of the Lamb before they could ascend into Paradise. They’d been faithful to God but they had not been cleansed of their sins until Jesus died in the cross and his blood was shed for the cleansing of their sins. They were “resting in Abraham ‘s bosom meaning they were comforted by the promise God would send the Messiah but they could not break the bonds of death until Jesus died and his blood was shed to cleanse them from their sins. Just because they were faithful to God didnt save them, they still had to hear the gospel and be saved by Jesus Christ. They could not have been in a Paradise because they were in bondage to death and sin. ** Your line of thinking is confusing! Jesus Spirit went to heaven/paradise after death then he went down to Hades to FREE the Old test. Believers then after 3 days he told Mary Mag. " DON'T touch me! For I have NOT ascended to MY Father in heaven Father." You wrote Elijah and Enoch went to heaven but Jesus said in john 3 NO MAN has entered heaven. Your interpretation is contradicting the words of Jesus. If Enoch and Elijah were in heaven then Jesus WOULD NOT HAVE said NO man has entered heaven because he came from heaven.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 12:36:44 GMT -5
Jesus’ spirit went to heaven right while he was on the cross. He said, “Father, I commend to you my spirit.” His spirit was NOT in the grave, Hades for 3 days and nights. His body was but not his spirit! Since the thief died right after Jesus died, he was covered by the blood of Christ and his soul went directly to heaven just some minutes after Jesus’ did. Jesus was the firstborn of the dead. No one but Enoch and Elijah preceded him into heaven, but since the thief died right after Christ did, his soul is like those of us that have lived and died faithful SINCE Jesus’ death. His blood covered the thief ‘s sins and he did not have to be captive to death in the grave like the faithful who’d died BEFORE Jesus’ spilt blood covered their sins. The Bible does not say at what hour or day Jesus descended into the belly of the earth to visit the faithful souls who were captives of death in their graves. It was very likely just before the sepulcher was as opened on Sunday morning because Jesus’ spirit had been rejoined with his body. But they had to hear the gospel, to be covered by the blood of the Lamb before they could ascend into Paradise. They’d been faithful to God but they had not been cleansed of their sins until Jesus died in the cross and his blood was shed for the cleansing of their sins. They were “resting in Abraham ‘s bosom meaning they were comforted by the promise God would send the Messiah but they could not break the bonds of death until Jesus died and his blood was shed to cleanse them from their sins. Just because they were faithful to God didnt save them, they still had to hear the gospel and be saved by Jesus Christ. They could not have been in a Paradise because they were in bondage to death and sin. ** Your line of thinking is confusing! Jesus Spirit went to heaven/paradise after death then he went down to Hades to FREE the Old test. Believers then after 3 days he told Mary Mag. " DON'T touch me! For I have NOT ascended to MY Father in heaven Father." You wrote Elijah and Enoch went to heaven but Jesus said in john 3 NO MAN has entered heaven. Your interpretation is contradicting the words of Jesus. No it’s not confusing. It’s the way it is. Elijah and Enoch both entered heaven body soul and spirit. The Bible says that God took Enoch. Elisha saw Elijah ascend into heaven bodily. Their bodies would have been transfigured by God, so thus Jesus is right “No man has ascended into heaven.” No man as we know man has entered heaven. But Enoch and Elijah’s bodies were transfigured just like Jesus was on the Mount of Olives. Jesus was ready to enter heaven right then and there. His physical body had been made eternal just like the faithful’s resurrected bodies will be made eternal. Jesus commended his spirit to God’s keeping while on the cross! Luke 23:46. His spirit didn’t get put in the sepulchral at all. As he arose before the tomb was opened was when his spirit was returned to his resurrected body. That seems to be the logical time for him to have visited the captives of death in the graves and preach the gospel to them, reassuring them that God's Promise to Abraham had been fulfilled and that his blood cleansed them of their sins and thus he freed those captive spirits to go to heaven. It doesn’t take days for the gospel message to be preached. So I’m sure for Jesus it was a matter of a few minutes simply because those captive spirits had held onto Gods promise of salvation. I know the workers thinks it does but their preaching more then the gospel. Just like ours do but we all had to wait until Jesus’ crucifixion and spilt blood and resurrection. That was his victory over death. His blood cleansed those who’d been faithful before his death and resurrection just as it did as us since his death and resurrection.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 13:11:21 GMT -5
your ignoring scripture which clearly states he did NOT ascend to the father yet....your not thinking this through....paradise is a separate place from heaven..... Jesus did go to heaven on the first day of the week, the day he result. He told Mary to tell his brethren that he was as going to their God and his God, etc. Then later the same day in the evening he appeared to his Apostles. He had to have gone because he had to present himself as the blood sacrifice for sins. Also he had to lead those souls from thiose graves at some time to heaven. He had to go first as he was the first born of the dead. This is why those captive souls in Abraham’s bosum as well as Abraham Himself were captives of the grave by death. Jesus had to rise and enter heaven first as the firstborn of the dead. then your implying that Christ lied or omitted something when he said he had not yet ascended, thats not a good place to be you might want to rethink what your saying....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 13:16:03 GMT -5
You don't understand and maybe you will never get it. Paradise on earth is the Garden of Eden and that is INSIDE the inner earth. I have told you folks for years, God has created the earth within the earth... Like the baby in the Mother's womb or the baby chick within the egg. So, Billions intelligence beings who God has created on/in zillions planets in each Galaxy can live on the inside and also on the surface if the temperature allows to do so. Garden of Eden is approximately where the Dead Sea is, thus the flaming sword. In Ezekiel 47 we read about the healing of those waters except for the marshes and Mirey places. This is when Jesus reigns his millennial reign. The tree(s) of life will heal the waters, they are evergreen, bearing fruit 12 months of the year. The leaves are also the healing of the nation’s. Abraham’s bosom is a place of comfort for those who had faith in God’s promise to Abraham about the coming Messiah. Some people call it a paradise but it does not match the descriptions of Paradise. Jesus said that the Son was in the Father’s bosom while he was on earth. He could not have been there physically because he was on earth physically. Being in someone’s bosom is a phrase that one is held in love there. It doesn’t mean one is in Paradise or actually in that person’s bosom. As Abraham had full and strong faith that God’s promise of Messiah would come, those that had faith like Abraham rested in Abraham’s bosom. A place of comfort. The believers in God’s promise to Abraham about a Messiah had to wait and hear Jesus’ gospel which means he had been crucified and their sins were forgiven them. They couldn’t be saved without the blood sacrifice of the Messiah. They were saved “by faith” but many didn’t see or know their salvation for many years so they rested on Abraham’s bosom or rested on their faith that the Messiah would save them bound in the graves by death. The difference is they were saved “by” faith, those since Jesus’ day are saved “through” faith. But all have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb. actually the garden was probably located just off the coast of kuwait/iraq thats where all the rivers converged that were described concerning the garden of eden....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 13:16:27 GMT -5
Jesus did go to heaven on the first day of the week, the day he result. He told Mary to tell his brethren that he was as going to their God and his God, etc. Then later the same day in the evening he appeared to his Apostles. He had to have gone because he had to present himself as the blood sacrifice for sins. Also he had to lead those souls from thiose graves at some time to heaven. He had to go first as he was the first born of the dead. This is why those captive souls in Abraham’s bosum as well as Abraham Himself were captives of the grave by death. Jesus had to rise and enter heaven first as the firstborn of the dead. then your implying that Christ lied or omitted something when he said he had not yet ascended, thats not a good place to be you might want to rethink what your saying.... What are you talking about? John 20:17 is when Jesus ascended into heaven in his resurrected body. That was in the morning of the first day of the week. He then came back the same day in the evening to his Apostles. Vs. 19.
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2019 13:26:14 GMT -5
You STILL don't get it or comprehend what is going on. It was in the Garden of Eden/Paradise INNER earth WHERE Adam and Eve forfeit their SOULS and all of their human children souls to Satan! He became god of all humans souls. And that is WHERE Satan keeps all souls there until the day of judgment. Well, Jesus came down from heaven and paid for our sins on Calvary so he has FREE the Old Testament believers and the New Testament believers souls do NOT go HADES but after death but our souls go directly to be with Christ and God the Father.
You’re the one who doesn’t comprehend about Paradise. Eden was closed off with a flaming sword, so it’s out of the picture. Paradise is where all is peaceful, calm and still and Irest beneath his care. We do not have rest until we enter into heaven after death on earth. Well well well, I forgot about that. But that make the possibility of anyone going to the hollow earth, as Nathan has said, impossible if the inner hollow earth is actually the Garden of Eden. No one can enter according to the bible. Soooo......
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 13:28:17 GMT -5
Garden of Eden is approximately where the Dead Sea is, thus the flaming sword. In Ezekiel 47 we read about the healing of those waters except for the marshes and Mirey places. This is when Jesus reigns his millennial reign. The tree(s) of life will heal the waters, they are evergreen, bearing fruit 12 months of the year. The leaves are also the healing of the nation’s. Abraham’s bosom is a place of comfort for those who had faith in God’s promise to Abraham about the coming Messiah. Some people call it a paradise but it does not match the descriptions of Paradise. Jesus said that the Son was in the Father’s bosom while he was on earth. He could not have been there physically because he was on earth physically. Being in someone’s bosom is a phrase that one is held in love there. It doesn’t mean one is in Paradise or actually in that person’s bosom. As Abraham had full and strong faith that God’s promise of Messiah would come, those that had faith like Abraham rested in Abraham’s bosom. A place of comfort. The believers in God’s promise to Abraham about a Messiah had to wait and hear Jesus’ gospel which means he had been crucified and their sins were forgiven them. They couldn’t be saved without the blood sacrifice of the Messiah. They were saved “by faith” but many didn’t see or know their salvation for many years so they rested on Abraham’s bosom or rested on their faith that the Messiah would save them bound in the graves by death. The difference is they were saved “by” faith, those since Jesus’ day are saved “through” faith. But all have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb. actually the garden was probably located just off the coast of kuwait/iraq thats where all the rivers converged that were described concerning the garden of eden.... Time changed the flow of Rivers. The four rivers came together just east of the Jordan River in what is Jordan today. It was a very fertile land. This is where part of the tribe of Mannseh and Reuben and Simeon took territory in the land of Canaan. We don’t know just how many acres or miles the garden of Eden covered. But I strongly suspect the area where amount Zion and Jerusalem were in that . Because it remains God’s chosen land. Reading in Ezekiel 47 kind of gives a better picture of where Eden was. Plus there are signs already that the healing of the Dead Sea area is healing. There’s been fish found in areas around the Dead Sea that hadnt had fish since Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2019 13:29:36 GMT -5
The graves that were opened while Jesus was on the cross, those people did not appear to others in the city until after Jesus’ resurrection. Some say those people had to die and be buried again, but I question that because if they were faithful ones but not saved until Jesys’ blood was shed, their spirits likely were freed to go to heaven. I don’t quit get what happened with their resurrected bodies but they may well have had to die again and buried to wait for Resurrection morning. Just as Lazarus the brother of Mary and Martha, had to die again. But his spirit went to heaven but his body has to wait until resurrection morning. The first time he died his spirit was held captive in the grave. But not the second time because Jesus had died, his blood was spilled and he was resurrected. It says that when he died the graves opened and the dead walked the streets of Jerusalem. So I don't think it was after he was resurrected. At least that's not how I interpret that piece of scripture.
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2019 13:31:36 GMT -5
actually the garden was probably located just off the coast of kuwait/iraq thats where all the rivers converged that were described concerning the garden of eden.... Time changed the flow of Rivers. The four rivers came together just east of the Jordan River in what is Jordan today. It was a very fertile land. This is where part of the tribe of Mannseh and Reuben and Simeon took territory in the land of Canaan. We don’t know just how many acres or miles the garden of Eden covered. But I strongly suspect the area where amount Zion and Jerusalem were in that . Because it remains God’s chosen land. Reading in Ezekiel 47 kind of gives a better picture of where Eden was. Plus there are signs already that the healing of the Dead Sea area is healing. There’s been fish found in areas around the Dead Sea that hadnt had fish since Sodom and Gomorrah. It was called the Fertile Crescent because it had the most amount of wild crops that could be domesticated and the most amount of large mammals that could be domesticated.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 13:35:52 GMT -5
You’re the one who doesn’t comprehend about Paradise. Eden was closed off with a flaming sword, so it’s out of the picture. Paradise is where all is peaceful, calm and still and Irest beneath his care. We do not have rest until we enter into heaven after death on earth. Well well well, I forgot about that. But that make the possibility of anyone going to the hollow earth, as Nathan has said, impossible if the inner hollow earth is actually the Garden of Eden. No one can enter according to the bible. Soooo...... Lol! 😉 That’s why Ezekiel 47 is vital to understand just where Eden was and will be returned to use during Jesus’ millennial reign. It says Mount Zion will cleave in two and a great valley will be. And they are to run into the valley asbin the days of Hezakiah. Ezekiel explains about the healing of the land, Dead Sea except for the marshes and Mirey places. The river from the right side of the temple(supposedly Jordan) will flow deeper and deeper and the tree(s) of Life on each side, evergreen, bearing 12 months of fruit, and healing in the leaves for the nations. It will flow down into the Dead Sea and the waters will be healed and lots of fish caught where none have been caught for hundreds of years.
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 13:36:37 GMT -5
then your implying that Christ lied or omitted something when he said he had not yet ascended, thats not a good place to be you might want to rethink what your saying.... What are you talking about? John 20:17 is when Jesus ascended into heaven in his resurrected body. That was in the morning of the first day of the week. He then came back the same day in the evening to his Apostles. Vs. 19. *** We are talking about the time on the Cross, you said he ascended ito the Father in heaven/Paradise when he said I commit my Spirit.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 13:39:02 GMT -5
The graves that were opened while Jesus was on the cross, those people did not appear to others in the city until after Jesus’ resurrection. Some say those people had to die and be buried again, but I question that because if they were faithful ones but not saved until Jesys’ blood was shed, their spirits likely were freed to go to heaven. I don’t quit get what happened with their resurrected bodies but they may well have had to die again and buried to wait for Resurrection morning. Just as Lazarus the brother of Mary and Martha, had to die again. But his spirit went to heaven but his body has to wait until resurrection morning. The first time he died his spirit was held captive in the grave. But not the second time because Jesus had died, his blood was spilled and he was resurrected. It says that when he died the graves opened and the dead walked the streets of Jerusalem. So I don't think it was after he was resurrected. At least that's not how I interpret that piece of scripture. The graves were opened during the earthquake while Jesus was on the cross. However they did not appear until after his resurrection and went into the holy city, and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 13:56:42 GMT -5
What are you talking about? John 20:17 is when Jesus ascended into heaven in his resurrected body. That was in the morning of the first day of the week. He then came back the same day in the evening to his Apostles. Vs. 19. *** We are talking about the time on the Cross, you said he ascended ito the Father in heaven/Paradise when he said I commit my Spirit. Luke 23:43-46. And Jesus said unto him(the thief) , Verily I say unto thee, Today thou shalt be with with me in Paradise. And as it was about the sixth hour , and the darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour, And the sun was darkened , and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Verse 46: AND when JESUS had CRIED with a loud voice, HE SAID, “FATHER, INTO THY HANDS I COMMEND MY SPIRIT”: and HAVING said THUS, HE GAVE UP THE GHOST. He commended his spirit(Ghost) into his Father’s hands or keeping. His spirit went to heaven seconds before he bowed his head and quit breathing. His death did not make his spirit a captive of or in the grave. It was impossible. He is the Messiah. Since his death, blood sacrifice and resurrection; the saved ones’ spirits also go directly to heaven. Their spirits are not held captive in or by the grave. The thief on the cross “died minutes after Jesus”. May even been a few hours because they had to break his legs so he couldn’t get a breathe. Jesus died at the ninth hour of the day which was 3pm. Toward evening which started at 6 pm, because it was a preparation day for the Jews, the centurion commanded that the legs be broken of the two thieves. Normally, they’d often stay there a day or two before they died. But the fact that the thief died after Jesus’ blood was spilled, he qualified to not be held captive by death in the grave. We’re talking about spirits here, not bodies. That shouldn’t be too hard for you and Wally to ascertain that from the beginning when I said Jesus commended his spirit into the Father!s keeping, I was not talking about his body being taken to heaven! Sheesh!
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Post by rational on Aug 29, 2019 14:28:19 GMT -5
He commended his spirit(Ghost) into his Father’s hands or keeping. His spirit went to heaven seconds before he bowed his head and quit breathing. His death did not make his spirit a captive of or in the grave. So there was a body without a soul?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 15:15:51 GMT -5
actually the garden was probably located just off the coast of kuwait/iraq thats where all the rivers converged that were described concerning the garden of eden.... Time changed the flow of Rivers. The four rivers came together just east of the Jordan River in what is Jordan today. It was a very fertile land. This is where part of the tribe of Mannseh and Reuben and Simeon took territory in the land of Canaan. We don’t know just how many acres or miles the garden of Eden covered. But I strongly suspect the area where amount Zion and Jerusalem were in that . Because it remains God’s chosen land. Reading in Ezekiel 47 kind of gives a better picture of where Eden was. Plus there are signs already that the healing of the Dead Sea area is healing. There’s been fish found in areas around the Dead Sea that hadnt had fish since Sodom and Gomorrah. not by 400-500 miles they didn't.....your chapter mentions nothing of the pison, gihon, hiddekel or the euphrates....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 15:18:28 GMT -5
then your implying that Christ lied or omitted something when he said he had not yet ascended, thats not a good place to be you might want to rethink what your saying.... What are you talking about? John 20:17 is when Jesus ascended into heaven in his resurrected body. That was in the morning of the first day of the week. He then came back the same day in the evening to his Apostles. Vs. 19. he specifically said he had not ascended yet either him or you are confused or lying, i'm gonna pick that you are....
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Post by nathan on Aug 29, 2019 15:46:18 GMT -5
What are you talking about? John 20:17 is when Jesus ascended into heaven in his resurrected body. That was in the morning of the first day of the week. He then came back the same day in the evening to his Apostles. Vs. 19. he specifically said he had not ascended yet either him or you are confused or lying, i'm gonna pick that you are.... ** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 15:50:27 GMT -5
he specifically said he had not ascended yet either him or you are confused or lying, i'm gonna pick that you are.... ** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father. yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone....
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2019 16:14:57 GMT -5
he specifically said he had not ascended yet either him or you are confused or lying, i'm gonna pick that you are.... ** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father. Maybe it's just another of the many contradictions. He gives his spirit to the Father in heaven sounds very like at least his spirit ascended. So did he walk around in a body without his spirit?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 16:21:38 GMT -5
He commended his spirit(Ghost) into his Father’s hands or keeping. His spirit went to heaven seconds before he bowed his head and quit breathing. His death did not make his spirit a captive of or in the grave. So there was a body without a soul? Yes, as in the case of all people who die that are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 16:33:37 GMT -5
** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father. yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Wally, you’re not using your head. Jesus didn’t lie nor am I lying or confused. Jesus’ body did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection and his spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. That IS when he, whole and complete in his resurrected body did go to heaven and presented his body (which is the only part of him that died) as the eternal blood sacrifice for the sins of the world, his blood had been spilled outside the camp. Matthew 20 Remember, it was his body he didn’t want Mary to touch for it was a resurrected pure eternal body. It had not been presented in the Holiest of Holies. His spirit as a co-eternal God had to be returned to heaven from which it came, until his body was resurrected. His co-eternal spirit as God could not die, could not be held captive by death. It could not die. Then his co-eternal God Spirit was reunited with his resurrected human body. Simultaneously apparently. That’s the way it is for every person who has a human body and a born again spirit. Though Jesus spirit did not have to be born again for he is God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 16:35:26 GMT -5
** Yes, Wally. Jesus words are so simple to Mary M " DON'T touch me, for I have NOT ascended to my Father." According to STR one verse in Jh 20 "I commit my Spirit." meant he went to heaven/paraddise right then. And if he did go to heaven then why did he tell Mary M NOT to touch/give him a hug for he had NOT ascended to the Father. Maybe it's just another of the many contradictions. He gives his spirit to the Father in heaven sounds very like at least his spirit ascended. So did he walk around in a body without his spirit? It’s because they’re forgetting that Jesus’ is God in spirit and His spirit could not die so it couldn’t be held captive by death of the human body. Edit: no he didn’t walk around after resurrection without a spirit. His spirit had been reunited with his body, thus is when he could go into the depths of the graves and preach the gospel to the captives in the graves and release “their spirits” to follow him into heaven. After he ascended into heaven in Matthew 20 when he told Mary not to touch his resurrected body, is when he ascended body AND spirit; whole and complete to present his resurrected body as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. His blood was all that was missing because it’d been shed outside the camp( Jerusalem)..
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 16:52:42 GMT -5
Time changed the flow of Rivers. The four rivers came together just east of the Jordan River in what is Jordan today. It was a very fertile land. This is where part of the tribe of Mannseh and Reuben and Simeon took territory in the land of Canaan. We don’t know just how many acres or miles the garden of Eden covered. But I strongly suspect the area where amount Zion and Jerusalem were in that . Because it remains God’s chosen land. Reading in Ezekiel 47 kind of gives a better picture of where Eden was. Plus there are signs already that the healing of the Dead Sea area is healing. There’s been fish found in areas around the Dead Sea that hadnt had fish since Sodom and Gomorrah. not by 400-500 miles they didn't.....your chapter mentions nothing of the pison, gihon, hiddekel or the euphrates.... Those four rivers converged in several places according to some maps. Two seem to come from the north area above the sea if Galilee, where several smaller bodies of water drained off the mountains into them. The other two seem to have began from west and north of the Urartu Mountains(Ararat). Actually according to the old map from the patriarch time , they are seen to meet north and west of Babylon. There are mountains all around the Middle East from which these rivers flow being fed by other streams or rivers of water. It’s possible at the time of Eden there were only four main rivers known about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 17:42:01 GMT -5
yes STR is thoroughly confused or lying because Christ sure wasn't confused or lying....i suspect its because she has no real church to bounce these strange ideas off of, thats what happens when you go it fairly alone.... Wally, you’re not using your head. Jesus didn’t lie nor am I lying or confused. Jesus’ body did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection and his spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. That IS when he, whole and complete in his resurrected body did go to heaven and presented his body (which is the only part of him that died) as the eternal blood sacrifice for the sins of the world, his blood had been spilled outside the camp. Matthew 20 Remember, it was his body he didn’t want Mary to touch for it was a resurrected pure eternal body. It had not been presented in the Holiest of Holies. His spirit as a co-eternal God had to be returned to heaven from which it came, until his body was resurrected. His co-eternal spirit as God could not die, could not be held captive by death. It could not die. Then his co-eternal God Spirit was reunited with his resurrected human body. Simultaneously apparently. That’s the way it is for every person who has a human body and a born again spirit. Though Jesus spirit did not have to be born again for he is God. your right i am using the spirit to try and communicate with you but your too far gone to reach in your own limited understanding wish it were different comme ci comme ça
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2019 18:06:44 GMT -5
Wally, you’re not using your head. Jesus didn’t lie nor am I lying or confused. Jesus’ body did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection and his spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. That IS when he, whole and complete in his resurrected body did go to heaven and presented his body (which is the only part of him that died) as the eternal blood sacrifice for the sins of the world, his blood had been spilled outside the camp. Matthew 20 Remember, it was his body he didn’t want Mary to touch for it was a resurrected pure eternal body. It had not been presented in the Holiest of Holies. His spirit as a co-eternal God had to be returned to heaven from which it came, until his body was resurrected. His co-eternal spirit as God could not die, could not be held captive by death. It could not die. Then his co-eternal God Spirit was reunited with his resurrected human body. Simultaneously apparently. That’s the way it is for every person who has a human body and a born again spirit. Though Jesus spirit did not have to be born again for he is God. your right i am using the spirit to try and communicate with you but your too far gone to reach in your own limited understanding wish it were different comme ci comme ça Wally, Jesus was fully man(that is what died) and he was fully God that’s the Spirit he commended into the Father’s keeping. His human body was blood letted to make sure he was dead by the soldiers(blood is life-giving, people don’t live long without it.). His human body was put into the sepulcher. He was risen on the third day on first day of the week, his Spirit had been reunited with his resurrected body. He went and preached the gospel to the desth’s Captives from the OT that had been faithful in believing God’s promise to Abraham. His body was a resurrected body, so he could go by his Spirit where he needed to go, which we see when he appeared to the Apostles later that same first day of the week, the doors were closed. It was his human body that was the sacrifice for the world’s sins. It is his human person(Named Jesus) that had not been to heaven but his God person had when he was on the cross and commended his Spirit into his Father’s hands. So after he came out of the sepulcher, whole with resurrected pure human form(body) Mary saw him, he told her not to touch his pure resurrected body because his body had not been to heaven yet. It was his body he took to heaven unto the Holiest of Holies to present his body as the sacrifice for the sins of the world. What is so hard to understand about that. His God self could not die so it had to go to heaven for keeping until his resurrection was come. It is YOUR limited understanding that can’t grasp what is to be understood. Don’t forget Jesus was fully God then when he was prepared a body in Mary’s womb, he became fully man also. He didn’t lose his fully God self. That was his Spirit. That was his nature. He didn’t have to be born again in the Spirit by the Spirit because he is God. We face the same thing except we have to be born again in the spirit by the Spirit. Then when we die from earthly life, our spirits are returned to our creator, Paradise, but our bodies have to be disposed of by burial or cremation. BUT in Resurrection Day our rotted, corrupted bodies will be raised incorrupted and our born again spirits will be reunited with those resurrected human bodies. What’s so difficult about that. The reality and the spiritual are covered by what I’ve said. No lying, no confusion but on yours and Nathan’s part.
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