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Post by snow on May 20, 2019 20:25:28 GMT -5
snow . The different reactions are interesting. I did not ever feel betrayed and believe that may be due to having researched the process of religious indoctrination & that one of its effects is to coerce seemingly otherwise reasonable people into presenting false information as if it is factual. This forum continues that theme where individuals make statements which they cannot verify and yet they appear to be oblivious to the dishonest tactics they resort to avoid admitting that their claims are irrational. But I do have a problem understanding why people persist in avoiding facts now we are in the 21st C. & also how they can continue aligning themselves with beliefs which are supposed to promote morality - honesty, kindness etc but overwhelmingly have the opposite impact. I don't have any special characteristics so am at a loss to understand why others cannot also de-indoctrinate themselves: there are obviously strong motivators inhibiting people from applying reality checks and a healthy dose of skepticism. Well, as I stated, it surprised me. I thought I had done the work. As far as de-indoctrinating, there is a very strong motivation to stay a believer. It's not an easy road to come to the realization that what you believed completely is no longer a valid belief. I didn't come to that conclusion over night, it came in stages in my case. There is far more reason to just 'believe' for most people. 1. Possible loss of family and friends if you no longer believe 2. you suddenly become the enemy with no morals and can't be trusted, even though you haven't changed anything about yourself other than you no longer believe in any gods 3. letting go of a belief that promised you an eternal afterlife that is promised to be much better than your current life 4. letting go of your belief that even though 'bad people' might not get what's coming to them in this life, they will assuredly be punished in the next one. So unless you absolutely have to have evidence before you can believe and you can't base a 'truth' without evidence, you would feel there was more to lose by letting go of 'faith'. I know of more than a few people who say they don't necessarily believe, but 'hey, what do I have to lose to just do it'. You have to be content to have faith without evidence and obviously the statistics show, many are very willing to do just that. Of course, many also claim they have evidence until asked what that is and in the end it comes back to having faith that you have evidence. It just doesn't work for me, that's all I know. I am forever thankful I live in a country where I have a choice and so do they. I don't have to pretend to believe just to stay alive as they do in some countries.
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Post by joanna on May 20, 2019 20:49:34 GMT -5
I agree snowLetting go was definitely an inefficient process for me and you do lose a lot when doing so. There are so many negative aspects in this world, in one way there was a secure and comfortable feeling when belonging to a group and believing that the members of that group had basically overcome their human nature so were more trustworthy.. So that battle between wanting to remain comfortable and having skepticism towards the principles of the belief was quite disturbing. I do wonder how many people remain within the 2x2 group and other churches for the convenience as they continue suppressing their skepticism towards the truth claims made in the name of that faith. It was quite disconcerting when i came to the realisation that whether "inside or outside", people tend to represent the cross-section of human nature and religiosity is just a thin veneer covering the myriad of fundamental human behaviours.
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Post by snow on May 20, 2019 20:59:32 GMT -5
I agree snowLetting go was definitely an inefficient process for me and you do lose a lot when doing so. There are so many negative aspects in this world, in one way there was a secure and comfortable feeling when belonging to a group and believing that the members of that group had basically overcome their human nature so were more trustworthy.. So that battle between wanting to remain comfortable and having skepticism towards the principles of the belief was quite disturbing. I do wonder how many people remain within the 2x2 group and other churches for the convenience as they continue suppressing their skepticism towards the truth claims made in the name of that faith. It was quite disconcerting when i came to the realisation that whether "inside or outside", people tend to represent the cross-section of human nature and religiosity is just a thin veneer covering the myriad of fundamental human behaviours. I did it once. I truly believed what I was told was right, what I was doing was right and if all the other churches in the world said I was wrong, well, they just were being deceived and only I was lucky enough to have found the truth (literally in this case Truth) And I'm sure every one in every religion world wide believes the same thing. What we have found in the natural world isn't important because that's not what matters. The spiritual world and what ever sacred book you ascribe to is what matters because only that can give you eternal life. So you ignore what contradicts what you need to believe. I know I did. Until I couldn't anymore.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 21:36:40 GMT -5
chuck - “We can never be worthy, thats the whole point. If we can make ourselves worthy or clense ourselves what do we need Christ for?. Christ did what we can NEVER do. That is the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL!. “
That is what the word of God teaches, chuck, but it sure was not what workers taught and is still not what they teach, although they have buried their old clearer teachings in ambiguity and empty platitudes that any listener can fill in their own blanks by watching the workers face frown or smile at what one fills those blanks with.
I do believe that when one accepts Christ ALONE as Savior, the Holy Spirit moves in and cleans up as He sees fit – that the good works we do from that point onward are THE RESULT of salvation instigated by the indwelling Holy Spirit. And most often believers don't even know WHAT good works they are or have done. What I am saying is that saved people are God's work from start to finish, and God's work ALONE. However, occasionally God has given dim glimpses of how He has used my life to help others, but that is infrequent and seems only dim glimpses that occurred when I needed encouragement the most. I trust God to see that I arrive home bearing the image of His Son in His righteousness unaffected by ANY of my own filthy rags..
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 13:29:38 GMT -5
I find the following quotation of a “Bible Bite” written by Behold Israel to be very enlightening indeed – it makes sound companion to Scripture itself and can explain WHY the Jews are so hated by much of the world so continuously throughout history. Food for serious thought. Quote God has prepared Jerusalem as a seat for Jesus during the Millennial Kingdom. He gave this city ultimately to Jesus and this is why Satan wants it so badly and is trying to wage war on it constantly. That's why every religion claims to have a part of it, that’s why the Antichrist wants to rule from there. That's why the enemy is always, always and Jerusalem will be the cup of sorrow and all that are touching it will be scratched, a heavy burdensome stone. Behold, Jerusalem is the problem of the world. Why? Because the world is going to be so consumed with the antichrist spirit because Jerusalem originally, ultimately was prepared for Jesus to rule the world from. Unquote So here is the rest of that Bible Bite for 2x2s to examine themselves from inside, if they would ever do such a thing. Quote In a world that is spiraling out of control on every level, it is good to know that beyond the political chaos and advancing moral depravity is a time where God’s will is going to be done on earth as it is in Heaven. We live in a season of time where many of our thoughts and prayers include the phrase; How long, oh Lord? John 14:1-3 "...“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also..." We do not know the day or the hour when Jesus is going to “come again and receive us unto Himself” via the Rapture of the Church. However, we do know the duration of the time that precedes our return with Him to rule and reign on an earth that is governed in righteousness. The Bible makes it clear by defining the Tribulation as forty-two months, 2,520 days or 7 years according to the Hebrew lunar calendar of 30 day months. This time also referred to as the Seventieth week of Daniel. When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and announced to her that she would be with Child of the Holy Spirit he also pointed to a time where there will be peace on earth and good will toward men; Luke 1:32-33 "...He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”..." The Son of the Highest, Jesus, is someday going to sit on the throne of His human ancestor, King David, and He shall reign forever and ever. What Gabriel revealed to Mary the prophet Isaiah also foretold to Israel; Isaiah 9:6-7 "...For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this..." The Child was born and the Son was given but, the government has yet to be upon His shoulder, the shoulder implying responsibility. When Jesus came into the world as a Child and Son He came for the purpose of dying for the sins of the world. When He returns He is coming to rule the world in righteousness from the throne of David as Isaiah and Gabriel foretold. King David even recognized that there was coming a day when the enemies of Israel would be subdued when he wrote in the Psalms; Psalms 110:1 "...The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”..." Someday the enemies of the Lord will be put under His feet, meaning be under His rule. The question we all have in this increasingly corrupt age is, when? We know it will be at the end of the 7 year tribulation that the Prince of peace will return to the earth with His Church and the Millennial reign of Christ will begin. How long, oh Lord, before this glorious time? We do not know the day or the hour of His coming for His Church because we do not know the starting point of the tribulation. Although we know its exact duration once it begins. Back to where we started and the season of political and moral corruption we are all wishing would come to an end. We can say this in answer to the how long, oh Lord, question; Zechariah 12:1-3 "...The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it..." The nations of the world are gathering against Jerusalem today. The United Nations is constantly condemning Israel through its antisemitic resolutions while it remains silent regarding the atrocities committed against Christians and Jews around the world and the human rights violations committed by tyrannical and oppressive governments. Jerusalem is a burdensome stone to all peoples and someday, all nations, including the United States, will gather in opposition against the city from which the Son of the Highest will rule and reign in righteousness. There is also something else that will happen when Jerusalem stands alone against the rest of the world; Zechariah 12:10 "...“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn..." After the Spirit of grace and supplication is poured out on the Jews and Jerusalem and they recognize that Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah and mourn and grieve for their national rejection of their Savior the purpose of the Great Tribulation will have been fulfilled and then this happens; Zechariah 14:1-4 "...Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south..." The world is gathered politically against Jerusalem, someday they will gather physically against the city and the Lord will fight against them as He fights in the day of battle. Jesus will return and stand on the Mount of Olives as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and He will sit on the throne of David ruling the nations with a rod of Iron for a thousand years. When is the Rapture going to take place that sets all this in motion? We do not know the day of the hour but the evidence seems to indicate soon! Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus! Unquote link for Behold Israel, Youtube www.youtube.com/user/beholdisrael
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 9:58:36 GMT -5
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Post by snow on May 30, 2019 11:35:50 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on May 30, 2019 12:06:50 GMT -5
*** That is NOT the truth. Jesus sent the gospel to Jews first but they rejected so he sent his apostles and people to the Gentiles... Once the Jews apostles all died then the Gentiles apostles and their converts carry on the gospel to ALL NATIONS through the centuries until Jesus returns to set up His Eternal kingdom on earth with His people.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 20:29:30 GMT -5
nathan - "That is NOT the truth."
Just two quotations of workers;
Tharold Sylvester - Park Road Grange Hall, Spokane, WA 1960 - The reason why God chose the Jews (to be His chosen people in the Old Testament) was because they were worse than anyone else. They are a proud and stiff necked people.”
Eldon Tenniswood - Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10, 1985 - “We are God’s chosen people.”
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Post by nathan on May 30, 2019 22:34:14 GMT -5
nathan - "That is NOT the truth." Just two quotations of workers; Tharold Sylvester - Park Road Grange Hall, Spokane, WA 1960 - The reason why God chose the Jews (to be His chosen people in the Old Testament) was because they were worse than anyone else. They are a proud and stiff necked people.” Eldon Tenniswood - Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10, 1985 - “We are God’s chosen people.” Both workers are correct. God made a covenant with Abraham that him and his children will be BLESSED by bringing Christ our Savior entered the world through the person Jesus/Yashua. However, the children of Israel have been known as proud and stiff neck people, God had to work with What he got.
The 2x2s are God's chosen people in the 21st century.... They are NOT perfect because they are God's work in progress... God is perfecting them through tests and trials.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 23:56:20 GMT -5
nathan - "That is NOT the truth." Just two quotations of workers; Tharold Sylvester - Park Road Grange Hall, Spokane, WA 1960 - The reason why God chose the Jews (to be His chosen people in the Old Testament) was because they were worse than anyone else. They are a proud and stiff necked people.” Eldon Tenniswood - Los Angeles Special Meeting, March 10, 1985 - “We are God’s chosen people.” Both workers are correct. God made a covenant with Abraham that him and his children will be BLESSED by bringing Christ our Savior entered the world through the person Jesus/Yashua. However, the children of Israel have been known as proud and stiff neck people, God had to work with What he got.
The 2x2s are God's chosen people in the 21st century.... They are NOT perfect because they are God's work in progress... God is perfecting them through tests and trials.That's pretty close to what I wrote – let me copy and paste so that maybe you will now see that closeness side by side, yours next to my wordings -- The workers taught my generation that God became so fed up with His chosen people, Israel, that he made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And workers in their WILLFUL ignorance of the Bible today do not see the obvious OPPOSITE. Have a look. Israel Unveiled Volume 2: The Red Sea www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE4Wm8TV0nI&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk&index=14It is YOUR choice whether you take a look at the OPPOSITE that is presently fulfilling ancient prophecies including the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel in 1948 and subsequent victories over armies much larger thast that of Israel, as well as the current fulfillment of prophesy of Israel's safety and prosperity. If you study God's word you will find those obvious OPPOSITEs to what the workers procaimed about 2x2s being God's chosen people in place of Israel. If you still follow workers' anti-Bible education teaching (willful ignorance of the Bible) then, like they, you will not see the obvious opposite either – your choice nathan – but I gotta admit, clicking that link to look at the obvious opposite is a very tough job when it opposes willful ignorance of the Bible.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 0:00:06 GMT -5
Both workers are correct. God made a covenant with Abraham that him and his children will be BLESSED by bringing Christ our Savior entered the world through the person Jesus/Yashua. However, the children of Israel have been known as proud and stiff neck people, God had to work with What he got.
The 2x2s are God's chosen people in the 21st century.... They are NOT perfect because they are God's work in progress... God is perfecting them through tests and trials. That's pretty close to what I wrote – let me copy and paste so that maybe you will now see that closeness side by side, yours next to my wordings -- The workers taught my generation that God became so fed up with His chosen people, Israel, that he made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And workers in their WILLFUL ignorance of the Bible today do not see the obvious OPPOSITE. Have a look. Israel Unveiled Volume 2: The Red Sea www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE4Wm8TV0nI&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk&index=14It is YOUR choice whether you take a look at the OPPOSITE that is presently fulfilling ancient prophecies including the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel in 1948 and subsequent victories over armies much larger thast that of Israel, as well as the current fulfillment of prophesy of Israel's safety and prosperity. If you study God's word you will find those obvious OPPOSITEs to what the workers procaimed about 2x2s being God's chosen people in place of Israel. If you still follow workers' anti-Bible education teaching (willful ignorance of the Bible) then, like they, you will not see the obvious opposite either – your choice nathan – but I gotta admit, clicking that link to look at the obvious opposite is a very tough job when it opposes willful ignorance of the Bible. i've never heard a worker or anyone ever say we replaced the children of isreal...i have heard we are adopted(gentiles)into the family and will be equal heirs to the promise....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 1:14:53 GMT -5
That's pretty close to what I wrote – let me copy and paste so that maybe you will now see that closeness side by side, yours next to my wordings -- The workers taught my generation that God became so fed up with His chosen people, Israel, that he made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And workers in their WILLFUL ignorance of the Bible today do not see the obvious OPPOSITE. Have a look. Israel Unveiled Volume 2: The Red Sea www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE4Wm8TV0nI&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk&index=14It is YOUR choice whether you take a look at the OPPOSITE that is presently fulfilling ancient prophecies including the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel in 1948 and subsequent victories over armies much larger thast that of Israel, as well as the current fulfillment of prophesy of Israel's safety and prosperity. If you study God's word you will find those obvious OPPOSITEs to what the workers procaimed about 2x2s being God's chosen people in place of Israel. If you still follow workers' anti-Bible education teaching (willful ignorance of the Bible) then, like they, you will not see the obvious opposite either – your choice nathan – but I gotta admit, clicking that link to look at the obvious opposite is a very tough job when it opposes willful ignorance of the Bible. i've never heard a worker or anyone ever say we replaced the children of isreal...i have heard we are adopted(gentiles)into the family and will be equal heirs to the promise.... I don't much care what you have or haven't heard workers say - if just two quotations (out of hundreds of possible quotations) are not enough for you, I heard all kinds of workers teaching me that God became so fed up with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And that was just an introduction to the subject of the opposite as shown in a video that was left to the readers to choose to look at (the obvious opposite) or not look at. I didn't post that thinking that people who I already knew are wilfully ignorant of the Bible would choose to learn something from the Bible for a change.
Edit -
I thought I might add this edit to explain why I don't care what other 2x2s heard or didn't hear workers say. I notced in most convention meetings that the adults near were nodding off, some even getting a kindly nudge from another near them when they began snoring. And those who nodded off heard NOTHING that workers said. Having noticed this common occurrence, during the lunch and dinner breakls at conventions I began to ask other 2x2s what the workers talked about in the immediately preceding meeting. Some would pull out their meeting notes first then answer. Many had no idea ALREADY what the workers talked about.
So it is NO surprise to me when I hear or see a 2x2 saying that he/she never heard what workers taught – many 2x2s who say that are telling the truth – they never heard what workers taught in most meetings because they were either dozing or not listening. After all, it was not made very important by workers that commoners listen carefully to what they were teaching, some of whom discouraged even taking notes on their meetings (in case thiose notes might get into the “wrong hands"). What workers made imperative on commoners was that they BE SEEN in attendance of their meetings. And that explains a lot about why it takes years of attending 2x2 meetings to become 2x2 indoctrinated sufficiently to know anything that workers teach.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 13:09:24 GMT -5
i've never heard a worker or anyone ever say we replaced the children of isreal...i have heard we are adopted(gentiles)into the family and will be equal heirs to the promise.... I don't much care what you have or haven't heard workers say - if just two quotations (out of hundreds of possible quotations) are not enough for you, I heard all kinds of workers teaching me that God became so fed up with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And that was just an introduction to the subject of the opposite as shown in a video that was left to the readers to choose to look at (the obvious opposite) or not look at. I didn't post that thinking that people who I already knew are wilfully ignorant of the Bible would choose to learn something from the Bible for a change.
Edit -
I thought I might add this edit to explain why I don't care what other 2x2s heard or didn't hear workers say. I notced in most convention meetings that the adults near were nodding off, some even getting a kindly nudge from another near them when they began snoring. And those who nodded off heard NOTHING that workers said. Having noticed this common occurrence, during the lunch and dinner breakls at conventions I began to ask other 2x2s what the workers talked about in the immediately preceding meeting. Some would pull out their meeting notes first then answer. Many had no idea ALREADY what the workers talked about.
So it is NO surprise to me when I hear or see a 2x2 saying that he/she never heard what workers taught – many 2x2s who say that are telling the truth – they never heard what workers taught in most meetings because they were either dozing or not listening. After all, it was not made very important by workers that commoners listen carefully to what they were teaching, some of whom discouraged even taking notes on their meetings (in case thiose notes might get into the “wrong hands"). What workers made imperative on commoners was that they BE SEEN in attendance of their meetings. And that explains a lot about why it takes years of attending 2x2 meetings to become 2x2 indoctrinated sufficiently to know anything that workers teach.
weak argument....odds are while you were paying attention to others sleeping you yourself were not listening very well either...
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 16:12:21 GMT -5
As usual, Wally, the 2x2s frequently use weak arguments in the process of pointing at the arguments of anyone who disagrees with them - yours is a great example. Since when does anyone need to pay attention to adults flopping off beside them or snoring? But in spite of the disruption of giggles from the kids, those same jids have no choice but to attend workers meetings for enough years to be indoctrinated regardless of all disruptions that adults cause in what are generally mono-tone BORING speeches by people who know little about productive public speaking, let alone LOGICAL thought progression - but that's not their fault because they were taught to reject education, especially Bible education.
Parents usually planned distraction for their kids during those long boring speeches. But coloring books that were given to do that for me remained unmarked and the crayons stayed new until a sibling favored my crayons. I cannot remember a time when I was not interested in learning everything about the One who created everything, including me. And my parents were sure that it was a great sign of me ending up in "the work." And my parents were not disappointed when they learned that I preached to atheists at 14 years of age such that those atheists ended up admitting that there had to be some supernatural 'force' that organized it all. So. Wally, next time you think you get anywhere making your weak arguments against my arguments, I say WELCOME.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 17:11:41 GMT -5
As usual, Wally, the 2x2s frequently use weak arguments in the process of pointing at the arguments of anyone who disagrees with them - yours is a great example. Since when does anyone need to pay attention to adults flopping off beside them or snoring? But in spite of the disruption of giggles from the kids, those same jids have no choice but to attend workers meetings for enough years to be indoctrinated regardless of all disruptions that adults cause in what are generally mono-tone BORING speeches by people who know little about productive public speaking, let alone LOGICAL thought progression - but that's not their fault because they were taught to reject education, especially Bible education. Parents usually planned distraction for their kids during those long boring speeches. But coloring books that were given to do that for me remained unmarked and the crayons stayed new until a sibling favored my crayons. I cannot remember a time when I was not interested in learning everything about the One who created everything, including me. And my parents were sure that it was a great sign of me ending up in "the work." And my parents were not disappointed when they learned that I preached to atheists at 14 years of age such that those atheists ended up admitting that there had to be some supernatural 'force' that organized it all. So. Wally, next time you think you get anywhere making your weak arguments against my arguments, I say WELCOME. your the one paying attention to others sleeping and gave your position away...your not fooling anyone....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 19:43:07 GMT -5
Ah huh, any old port, I was right on the edge of my seat ready to roar to the worker's rightful embarassment, but I was not alone in noticing the disruption the adult sleepers caused was meeting wide - some adults were trying very hard to keep a staight face while the kids were in suppressed laughter that drew their attention off their coloring books and silent toys - that was the kids who were not already sleeping themselves of course. And a few speaking workers got angry and chastised the SLEEPERS for drifting off under their sleepy droning on and on about nothing of importance. Of course, I would not blame you for pretending you never noticed or snored at times on here, 2x2s hide lots of fun like those experiences in meetings.
But in spite of all that fun in meetings, 2x2 kids had no choice but attend those meetings for years enough to STILL get 2x2 indoctrinated in spite of the great and lively amusement the sleepers caused in all those meetings - it took years for workers get their two-penny message across, but repetition does eventually reach even the sleepers in their meetings - but not you Wally, of course - you never heard workers say that God got so fed up with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And apparently you also failed to notice people in meetings flopping over and snoring too. No wonder you cannot see the obvious opposite shown in Israel today.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:05:45 GMT -5
Ah huh, any old port, I was right on the edge of my seat ready to roar to the worker's rightful embarassment, but I was not alone in noticing the disruption the adult sleepers caused was meeting wide - some adults were trying very hard to keep a staight face while the kids were in suppressed laughter that drew their attention off their coloring books and silent toys - that was the kids who were not already sleeping themselves of course. And a few speaking workers got angry and chastised the SLEEPERS for drifting off under their sleepy droning on and on about nothing of importance. Of course, I would not blame you for pretending you never noticed or snored at times on here, 2x2s hide lots of fun like those experiences in meetings. But in spite of all that fun in meetings, 2x2 kids had no choice but attend those meetings for years enough to STILL get 2x2 indoctrinated in spite of the great and lively amusement the sleepers caused in all those meetings - it took years for workers get their two-penny message across, but repetition does eventually reach even the sleepers in their meetings - but not you Wally, of course - you never heard workers say that God got so fed up with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel. And apparently you also failed to notice people in meetings flopping over and snoring too. No wonder you cannot see the obvious opposite shown in Israel today. this explains your post here on TMB you should have been paying attention instead of being a lookyloo or site seer during meetings....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:16:43 GMT -5
Ah huh, any old port. Your simplistic repetition of the same old same old no matter WHAT I say is just as boring to me as the workers were in their meetings that bored others to sleep. But I have long been away from that 2x2 practice, so I do not normally endure repetition for very long - if you call repetition "discussion" fine for you Wally, I don't. And I am sure that I am not alone in noticing you avoid the fact that 2x2 kids had no choice but attend workers meetings for enough years to become 2x2 indoctrinated in spite of the boredom in most workers' speeches. In fact not long ago I attended a gospel meeting in which the worker unintentionally caused hearty laughter from his whole audience with his amusing way of presenting his analogy - and the worker took a good ten minutes to get over being such a great but unintended comedian. It was the liveliest 2x2 meeting I ever saw, poor worker sweating as he stumbled to overcome causing anyone to laugh in meeting of all places.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:36:16 GMT -5
Ah huh, any old port. Your simplistic repetition of the same old same old no matter WHAT I say is just as boring to me as the workers were in their meetings that bored others to sleep. But I have long been away from that 2x2 practice, so I do not normally endure repetition for very long - if you call repetition "discussion" fine for you Wally, I don't. And I am sure that I am not alone in noticing you avoid the fact that 2x2 kids had no choice but attend workers meetings for enough years to become 2x2 indoctrinated in spite of the boredom in most workers' speeches. In fact not long ago I attended a gospel meeting in which the worker unintentionally caused hearty laughter from his whole audience with his amusing way of presenting his analogy - and the worker took a good ten minutes to get over being such a great but unintended comedian. It was the liveliest 2x2 meeting I ever saw, poor worker sweating as he stumbled to overcome causing anyone to laugh in meeting of all places. the same thing happens to kids attending any church they learn by rote at first until the milk of the word has done its work and then they graduate to meat...you would be dishonest to deny that...
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:55:28 GMT -5
Oh, thank you Wally for the change off your repetitions. Now we supposedly are going round the mulberry bush that rests on the premise that all churches are the same.
Not only have I seen huge differences from the Truth Church in every other church I have visited, but I never fit your category even when I was a 2x2. That is why I am not still a 2x2, But I think your recent postings indicate that such witness of the opposite to your claim will not effect a repeat of your claim one bit.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:59:34 GMT -5
Oh, thank you Wally for the change off your repetitions. Now we supposedly are going round the mulberry bush that rests on the premise that all churches are the same. Not only have I seen huge differences from the Truth Church in every other church I have visited, but I never fit your category even when I was a 2x2. That is why I am not still a 2x2, But I think your recent postings indicate that such witness of the opposite to your claim will not effect a repeat of your claim one bit. maybe you need to go back to meetings since your an adult(i ASSume)now then you might actually hear what is being said....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 21:08:57 GMT -5
BORING, Wally, BORING - you started by saying YOU never heard workers teaching that God became so fed iup with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel - now you are trying to make out as if I am the one who didn't hear what workers said - even after you were provided two quotations of workers saying what I said they taught.
I have other things that are far more interesting to do than go round and round YOUR senseless circles over and over again. Reply if you need last word, but I won't be seeing any reply until perhaps tomorrow or the next day - or the next.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 23:13:24 GMT -5
BORING, Wally, BORING - you started by saying YOU never heard workers teaching that God became so fed iup with Israel that He made the 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel - now you are trying to make out as if I am the one who didn't hear what workers said - even after you were provided two quotations of workers saying what I said they taught. I have other things that are far more interesting to do than go round and round YOUR senseless circles over and over again. Reply if you need last word, but I won't be seeing any reply until perhaps tomorrow or the next day - or the next. by all means retreat....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 23:53:13 GMT -5
I said I had more interesting things to do than go round and round your merry go round – I did not say I was retreating because there was nothing to retreat from – if YOU heard me say I was retreating, this confirms, Wally, you needed the last word in order to continue your 'winning hand' of jokers. And THAT is good on you according to workers, so you are bound for 2x2 heaven according to their teachings on “last words.”. There is a transcript of a whole worker-speech in a 2x2 Gospel Meeting (full context) on the topic of the vital salvation-position revealed in last words at the link provided in the opening post of the thread “To 2x2s With Love3” -- just in case you also never heard a worker teaching 2x2s that last words are decisive to ones eternal destiny – may God help any mute 2x2 to speak the right last words before entering 2x2 “eternity.” Oh what the hey, here's a link just in case someone else reading this post might want to see a worker teaching that 2x2 doctrine. drive.google.com/open?id=1-vkckyzwnKb6gTMk5Kwlx0bDUqJMd7Ev And here is an excerpt, “These are the last words that Jesus uttered this side of the grave, 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.' There's something very vital about the last words that people tell us before they enter into eternity. A few weeks ago Calvin and I had the privilege of going to a hospital. We visited a man who came to several of our meetings and little by little we saw that the spirit of God was changing that man's attitude and outlook. We'd like to tell you that he made an open confession of Christ, that he didn't, and we would just like to leave that in the hands of God. We came to the room that he was in and the poor man was on oxygen, and was panting for breath. And he - he motioned for me to come close to him and I thought he said these words, but I wasn't sure, so I got close to his mouth and he said, 'Gordon, how are the Words of the Lord?' I was sho-, I was surprised at that man saying those words, 'How are the Words of the Lord?' And those were the last words that we heard that man utter this side of eternity. We had the privilege of having a little part in his service. We were glad to be able to tell those people that that man's heart was turned toward God. We took him out to the cemetery and after the little service, one of his relatives came to us and he said, 'I'm so surprised; I didn't know he was dabbling with the Lord.' 'Dabbling with the Lord!' Well, that's all it meant to that man. But when that man that afternoon, when he was panting for breath, he said, 'How is the Word of the Lord?:' it was - it was serious; it was serious.”:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 0:25:27 GMT -5
I said I had more interesting things to do than go round and round your merry go round – I did not say I was retreating because there was nothing to retreat from – if YOU heard me say I was retreating, this confirms, Wally, you needed the last word in order to continue your 'winning hand' of jokers. And THAT is good on you according to workers, so you are bound for 2x2 heaven according to their teachings on “last words.”. There is a transcript of a whole worker-speech in a 2x2 Gospel Meeting (full context) on the topic of the vital salvation-position revealed in last words at the link provided in the opening post of the thread “To 2x2s With Love3” -- just in case you also never heard a worker teaching 2x2s that last words are decisive to ones eternal destiny – may God help any mute 2x2 to speak the right last words before entering 2x2 “eternity.” Oh what the hey, here's a link just in case someone else reading this post might want to see a worker teaching that 2x2 doctrine. drive.google.com/open?id=1-vkckyzwnKb6gTMk5Kwlx0bDUqJMd7Ev And here is an excerpt, “These are the last words that Jesus uttered this side of the grave, 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.' There's something very vital about the last words that people tell us before they enter into eternity. A few weeks ago Calvin and I had the privilege of going to a hospital. We visited a man who came to several of our meetings and little by little we saw that the spirit of God was changing that man's attitude and outlook. We'd like to tell you that he made an open confession of Christ, that he didn't, and we would just like to leave that in the hands of God. We came to the room that he was in and the poor man was on oxygen, and was panting for breath. And he - he motioned for me to come close to him and I thought he said these words, but I wasn't sure, so I got close to his mouth and he said, 'Gordon, how are the Words of the Lord?' I was sho-, I was surprised at that man saying those words, 'How are the Words of the Lord?' And those were the last words that we heard that man utter this side of eternity. We had the privilege of having a little part in his service. We were glad to be able to tell those people that that man's heart was turned toward God. We took him out to the cemetery and after the little service, one of his relatives came to us and he said, 'I'm so surprised; I didn't know he was dabbling with the Lord.' 'Dabbling with the Lord!' Well, that's all it meant to that man. But when that man that afternoon, when he was panting for breath, he said, 'How is the Word of the Lord?:' it was - it was serious; it was serious.”: so now we've gone from watching people sleep in mtg to last words? quite a rabbit trail your laying...that testimony by gordon was a pretty good one and spot on. you'd have to really hate the truth to not like it and you'd have to be blind and deaf to not understand it....you remind me of jannes and jambres railing against moses to no avail...this is your que to run off now or play your victim card again....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 1:22:01 GMT -5
It was explained clear enough for a six year old to understand right up front. But to repeat (as boring as that practice is) the sleepers in meetings were presented as a very possible (and common) reason that 2x2s never heard workers teach that God became so fed up with Israel that He made 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel – which was just a contrasting introduction to a video that visually demonstrates that Israel obviously remains God's chosen People today, not the 2x2s. I was done with that topic when I presented for YOU two quotations of workers teaching that 2x2 doctrine.
Now you don't have the option to deny 2x2 teachings on the 2x2 doctrine of “Last Words” because even if you never heard a worker teaching it to you, you can read a worker's words teaching it – right up front.
There are no winning hands of jokers in poker, or pokim.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 5:10:16 GMT -5
It was explained clear enough for a six year old to understand right up front. But to repeat (as boring as that practice is) the sleepers in meetings were presented as a very possible (and common) reason that 2x2s never heard workers teach that God became so fed up with Israel that He made 2x2s His chosen people instead of Israel – which was just a contrasting introduction to a video that visually demonstrates that Israel obviously remains God's chosen People today, not the 2x2s. I was done with that topic when I presented for YOU two quotations of workers teaching that 2x2 doctrine. Now you don't have the option to deny 2x2 teachings on the 2x2 doctrine of “Last Words” because even if you never heard a worker teaching it to you, you can read a worker's words teaching it – right up front. There are no winning hands of jokers in poker, or pokim. why would i deny last words when it was spot on? whatever your personal vendetta is against the truth it surely ain't that. you've never played poker have you.....
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