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Post by rational on May 3, 2019 15:10:03 GMT -5
The reprobates live their assigned number of years. Never allowing God’s interventions etc. The only way God could stop them would to be to kill them. An omnipresent. omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenolevent god does not have to be 'allowed' to do anything. It is claimed s/he is the creator of the universe. Knows about the little sparrows and has the time to count the hairs of people's head. Preventing a child from being abused should come before the sparrow.... |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2019 15:20:13 GMT -5
The Bible says God “gives them over” to a reprobate mind. Which means absolutely that God does nothing to protect the child. Really? Does God have no other means for protecting the child? How about a stray meteorite? |
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Post by snow on May 3, 2019 17:32:54 GMT -5
Not preventing something when we have the power to do so, is allowing. I don't see any way of getting around that. It doesn't make any difference that you feel he doesn't allow children to be abused and then state that he does allow the abuser to abuse children. The Bible says God “gives them over” to a reprobate mind. It’d be hard for him to put the right thoughts and desires in reprobate people. It says he gives them over which can mean he’s through trying to deal with them. It seems the other thing is that when people are born, their departure date is set also. Can God change that. We know that he did for Hezekiah but there is an exacting if that occurs. Somebody has to pay the orice. In Hezekiah’s situation his heirs paid for Hezekiah’s added 15 yrs. The reprobates live their assigned number of years. Never allowing God’s interventions etc. The only way God could stop them would to be to kill them. Can you make yourself pray for the perps death? It takes a price. So God’s put laws in place that makes the perps pay the price. Why blame God when he’s given us eyes, ears, heart and brain to take care of these things? That’s like setting down and telling God, you go ahead do what needs to be done and Zill just sit here in my Fannie and when you’ve got it done, I’ll rise to play. In one sentence you are saying that God 'gives them over to a reprobate mind'. Then in another sentence you ask 'Why blame God when he's given us eyes, ears, heart and brain to take care of these things'. Are they not contradictory statements? If God meant me to be a reprobate, there doesn't appear to be anything I can do to change that even though I have eyes, ears, a heart and a brain. Also, if God is all powerful, why would it be hard for him to 'put right thoughts and desires in reprobate people'? If he isn't, I could understand that, but the Christian God is supposed to be all powerful. He is also supposed to be all loving and all merciful. He is an Omni God. So if I am all powerful and all loving, I would protect children from being abused in the first place. Now comes the question of free will. Well I just started a thread on the Jump on Board portion of this forum about that very subject. You might be interested in it. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 3, 2019 18:11:16 GMT -5
The reprobates live their assigned number of years. Never allowing God’s interventions etc. The only way God could stop them would to be to kill them. An omnipresent. omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenolevent god does not have to be 'allowed' to do anything. It is claimed s/he is the creator of the universe. Knows about the little sparrows and has the time to count the hairs of people's head. Preventing a child from being abused should come before the sparrow.... Bible doesn’t say God stops the sparrows death. Nor does he replace the lost hair. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 3, 2019 18:12:45 GMT -5
The Bible says God “gives them over” to a reprobate mind. Which means absolutely that God does nothing to protect the child. Really? Does God have no other means for protecting the child? How about a stray meteorite? That’d be interfering in the assignedvnumber if years the perp is given to live on birth. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 3, 2019 18:19:28 GMT -5
The Bible says God “gives them over” to a reprobate mind. It’d be hard for him to put the right thoughts and desires in reprobate people. It says he gives them over which can mean he’s through trying to deal with them. It seems the other thing is that when people are born, their departure date is set also. Can God change that. We know that he did for Hezekiah but there is an exacting if that occurs. Somebody has to pay the orice. In Hezekiah’s situation his heirs paid for Hezekiah’s added 15 yrs. The reprobates live their assigned number of years. Never allowing God’s interventions etc. The only way God could stop them would to be to kill them. Can you make yourself pray for the perps death? It takes a price. So God’s put laws in place that makes the perps pay the price. Why blame God when he’s given us eyes, ears, heart and brain to take care of these things? That’s like setting down and telling God, you go ahead do what needs to be done and Zill just sit here in my Fannie and when you’ve got it done, I’ll rise to play. In one sentence you are saying that God 'gives them over to a reprobate mind'. Then in another sentence you ask 'Why blame God when he's given us eyes, ears, heart and brain to take care of these things'. Are they not contradictory statements? If God meant me to be a reprobate, there doesn't appear to be anything I can do to change that even though I have eyes, ears, a heart and a brain. Also, if God is all powerful, why would it be hard for him to 'put right thoughts and desires in reprobate people'? If he isn't, I could understand that, but the Christian God is supposed to be all powerful. He is also supposed to be all loving and all merciful. He is an Omni God. So if I am all powerful and all loving, I would protect children from being abused in the first place. Now comes the question of free will. Well I just started a thread on the Jump on Board portion of this forum about that very subject. You might be interested in it. No, they’re not contradictory statements. The reprobate mind is not the maker nor keeper of laws. However, people with clean minds and soft hearts are. God didn’t populate the world with humans to ride tandem with every one of them. He gave them brains, guidance to know in their hearts and minds what is right and what is wrong. It’s humans that are deficient in their responsibilities , not God. God will not always be merciful and loving, but he will tender a righteous judgment. We all have to face our own deeds or lack of deeds, sooner or later. The ones who break laws should so well be prosecuted and made to pay their societal debts. But the people who don’t do anything to stop the perps become aides and abetters. They will suffer penalties for that if not by laws of the land, then certainly by the righteous judge. |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2019 18:37:38 GMT -5
Which means absolutely that God does nothing to protect the child. Really? Does God have no other means for protecting the child? How about a stray meteorite? That’d be interfering in the assignedvnumber if years the perp is given to live on birth. What a BS explanation! God has to facilitate human laws? |
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Post by magpie1 on May 3, 2019 18:44:51 GMT -5
NO IT IS NOT JUST A WORKERS PROBLEM!!!! THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS,THE LIVES OF THE EFFECTED VICTIMS BY CRIMINAL PAEDOPHILES,HOMO/LESBIANS AMONGST THEIR MINISTRY !!! AND THE FACT THAT VIA THEM IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN?? "OH" DEAR GOD HELP THEM PULL THAT BIG BEAM OUT OF THEIR EYES,AND STOP THEM LOOKING AT LITTLE SPLINTERS IN THE EYES OF OTHERS. THANKS GOD> Magpie
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Post by rational on May 3, 2019 20:27:38 GMT -5
An omnipresent. omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenolevent god does not have to be 'allowed' to do anything. It is claimed s/he is the creator of the universe. Knows about the little sparrows and has the time to count the hairs of people's head. Preventing a child from being abused should come before the sparrow.... Bible doesn’t say God stops the sparrows death. Nor does he replace the lost hair. You are right. God does nothing to prevent the sparrows death, nothing to help the balding man, and nothing to protect the child from being tortured or abused. As an all powerful and all knowing being s/he could prevent these things but has made the decision to stand by and know that the child is being abused and refrain helping the child. |
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Post by christiansburg on May 4, 2019 8:07:25 GMT -5
CSA is a problem for every worker, convention owner, 2x2 member with meeting in their home and any other ADULT with knowledge of abuse of children by "workers" or "friends." That includes every ADULT on this board who has the ability to write and speak. If you dare speak out on this board but have not spoken out about the knowledge you have learned, then you are no different then the "workers" and "friends" you condemn. It does not matter whether you believe in God or not. This is about human decency. You are 100% correct with that statement. Even more so it is not just responsibility to speak out about the truth or the 2x2s it's a responsibility to speak out about every abuse situation. What we have to remember about these particular cases recorded on 60 Minutes ,was that it happened quite some years ago. CSA was rife in all sorts of groups -church, sports,families and many many times went unreported. If it had been reported would the police have acted? I doubt it.They too were guilty of trivializing abuse. I am not excusing the historical abuse on this program in any way -it was absolutely disgusting, and is possibly only the tip of the iceberg, but to sit back and smugly say it was/is just a 2x2 problem is showing ignorance. Where you have a large number of people from cross section of society in a group, you will have abusers.No group can filter its members to avoid that but it is how they are dealt with that matters. I myself was abused by a family friend who was part of an apparently wonderful little local church group.It came to light later that some of his family knew about his abusing but chose not to say anything. That was not uncommon then. What is important is what groups do about abuse NOW. There is now no excuse for abuse to go unreported or to be covered up. People need to be educated to go immediately to the police. It is very hard to cover something that has been through the courts. With the law on their side, the power is actually in the hands of the people (in ANY group) It seems as though this is made a group thing/problem. More realistically it is a human nature problem so should we all be out there examining the world? This is a narrow minded approach to think we can have a single focus approach. Maybe my neighbors are suspect? Maybe my fellow employees at work are suspect? So it stands to reason reaching out to the entire world is what should be done. |
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Post by openingact34 on May 4, 2019 8:21:53 GMT -5
Bible doesn’t say God stops the sparrows death. Nor does he replace the lost hair. You are right. God does nothing to prevent the sparrows death, nothing to help the balding man, and nothing to protect the child from being tortured or abused. As an all powerful and all knowing being s/he could prevent these things but has made the decision to stand by and know that the child is being abused and refrain helping the child. God helped at least one bald man when his feelings got hurt: "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." 2 Kings 2:23-24 |
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Post by rational on May 4, 2019 8:55:53 GMT -5
You are 100% correct with that statement. Even more so it is not just responsibility to speak out about the truth or the 2x2s it's a responsibility to speak out about every abuse situation. What we have to remember about these particular cases recorded on 60 Minutes ,was that it happened quite some years ago. CSA was rife in all sorts of groups -church, sports,families and many many times went unreported. If it had been reported would the police have acted? I doubt it.They too were guilty of trivializing abuse. I am not excusing the historical abuse on this program in any way -it was absolutely disgusting, and is possibly only the tip of the iceberg, but to sit back and smugly say it was/is just a 2x2 problem is showing ignorance. Where you have a large number of people from cross section of society in a group, you will have abusers.No group can filter its members to avoid that but it is how they are dealt with that matters. I myself was abused by a family friend who was part of an apparently wonderful little local church group.It came to light later that some of his family knew about his abusing but chose not to say anything. That was not uncommon then. What is important is what groups do about abuse NOW. There is now no excuse for abuse to go unreported or to be covered up. People need to be educated to go immediately to the police. It is very hard to cover something that has been through the courts. With the law on their side, the power is actually in the hands of the people (in ANY group) It seems as though this is made a group thing/problem. More realistically it is a human nature problem so should we all be out there examining the world? This is a narrow minded approach to think we can have a single focus approach. Maybe my neighbors are suspect? Maybe my fellow employees at work are suspect? So it stands to reason reaching out to the entire world is what should be done. Your neighbors, fellow employees, friends are all suspect. And so are you. And especially me! I worked with a man for 3 years and was shocked to find out that he was sexually abusing his children at the time. Having worked with abusers (sexual and otherwise) their ability to deceive people regarding their activities is difficult to under estimate. Even after being caught their ability to deceiving people is amazing. |
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Post by rational on May 4, 2019 8:57:51 GMT -5
You are right. God does nothing to prevent the sparrows death, nothing to help the balding man, and nothing to protect the child from being tortured or abused. As an all powerful and all knowing being s/he could prevent these things but has made the decision to stand by and know that the child is being abused and refrain helping the child. God helped at least one bald man when his feelings got hurt: "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." 2 Kings 2:23-24 But he was still bald! I think there may be some additional meanings that the KJV did not completely catch. |
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Post by Dennis J on May 4, 2019 10:06:50 GMT -5
Some have taken much razzing about something far out of our control. I know I did, until one day an answer came to me. Here I am, with a baldy head, and usually well trimmed beard. Other men shave their faces to appear more like women, and I was the one being harassed? Go figure!!
Hurray! Algimate is working, today is the very first time since 4/1/2019 I have awoken with less than sopping wet bandages! SO! Success at last beginning on that front!
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Post by snow on May 4, 2019 12:01:57 GMT -5
In one sentence you are saying that God 'gives them over to a reprobate mind'. Then in another sentence you ask 'Why blame God when he's given us eyes, ears, heart and brain to take care of these things'. Are they not contradictory statements? If God meant me to be a reprobate, there doesn't appear to be anything I can do to change that even though I have eyes, ears, a heart and a brain. Also, if God is all powerful, why would it be hard for him to 'put right thoughts and desires in reprobate people'? If he isn't, I could understand that, but the Christian God is supposed to be all powerful. He is also supposed to be all loving and all merciful. He is an Omni God. So if I am all powerful and all loving, I would protect children from being abused in the first place. Now comes the question of free will. Well I just started a thread on the Jump on Board portion of this forum about that very subject. You might be interested in it. No, they’re not contradictory statements. The reprobate mind is not the maker nor keeper of laws. However, people with clean minds and soft hearts are. God didn’t populate the world with humans to ride tandem with every one of them. He gave them brains, guidance to know in their hearts and minds what is right and what is wrong. It’s humans that are deficient in their responsibilities , not God. God will not always be merciful and loving, but he will tender a righteous judgment. We all have to face our own deeds or lack of deeds, sooner or later. The ones who break laws should so well be prosecuted and made to pay their societal debts. But the people who don’t do anything to stop the perps become aides and abetters. They will suffer penalties for that if not by laws of the land, then certainly by the righteous judge. If it's God's choice who is his chosen and who is not, then it doesn't matter what we do we will never be able to act differently. Because what you are saying, as I understand it, is that God hardens people's hearts and then uses them to test his chosen. So how is it not contradictory to say God doesn't allow children to be abused (which clearly isn't our reality) and he does allow predators to abuse children (which is also our reality? Those two statements don't make any sense to me. If god uses reprobates as you state, then it clearly doesn't make any difference if they want to act differently, God won't allow it. In Pharaohs case it says that the Pharaoh wanted to let them go but God wasn't done with hardening his heart so he could teach the Israelites a lesson. Pharaoh had no choice. He couldn't even make a choice that would have been in his best interests, which btw, the bible does say he wanted to do until God hardened his heart again. And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exodus 9:12 The Pharaoh had no say in it. The Lord had the say and he hardened the Pharaoh's heart. No choice, period. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 12:17:32 GMT -5
That’d be interfering in the assignedvnumber if years the perp is given to live on birth. What a BS explanation! God has to facilitate human laws? Take your questions and doubts about God not stopping child abuse to gotquestions.com They’re a little better at trying to explain that it’s not God who should be blasphemed over child abuse, but the evil tendencies that reside in humans. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 12:22:47 GMT -5
No, they’re not contradictory statements. The reprobate mind is not the maker nor keeper of laws. However, people with clean minds and soft hearts are. God didn’t populate the world with humans to ride tandem with every one of them. He gave them brains, guidance to know in their hearts and minds what is right and what is wrong. It’s humans that are deficient in their responsibilities , not God. God will not always be merciful and loving, but he will tender a righteous judgment. We all have to face our own deeds or lack of deeds, sooner or later. The ones who break laws should so well be prosecuted and made to pay their societal debts. But the people who don’t do anything to stop the perps become aides and abetters. They will suffer penalties for that if not by laws of the land, then certainly by the righteous judge. If it's God's choice who is his chosen and who is not, then it doesn't matter what we do we will never be able to act differently. Because what you are saying, as I understand it, is that God hardens people's hearts and then uses them to test his chosen. So how is it not contradictory to say God doesn't allow children to be abused (which clearly isn't our reality) and he does allow predators to abuse children (which is also our reality? Those two statements don't make any sense to me. If god uses reprobates as you state, then it clearly doesn't make any difference if they want to act differently, God won't allow it. In Pharaohs case it says that the Pharaoh wanted to let them go but God wasn't done with hardening his heart so he could teach the Israelites a lesson. Pharaoh had no choice. He couldn't even make a choice that would have been in his best interests, which btw, the bible does say he wanted to do until God hardened his heart again. And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exodus 9:12 The Pharaoh had no say in it. The Lord had the say and he hardened the Pharaoh's heart. No choice, period. Giving over to a reprobate mind is what God does to people who harden their own hearts. Which I guess in a way is how God hardens their hearts more simply because he ceases trying to do anything righteous with them. As I told Bob, go to gotquestions.com. For they have several answers for why God doesn’t stop abuse, etc. I don’t believe we should be blaspheming God for the evil that lurks in people’s minds and hearts. You can’t have God’s righteousness mixed in with the evil that humans allow in their lives. That IS free will. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 12:27:06 GMT -5
You are right. God does nothing to prevent the sparrows death, nothing to help the balding man, and nothing to protect the child from being tortured or abused. As an all powerful and all knowing being s/he could prevent these things but has made the decision to stand by and know that the child is being abused and refrain helping the child. God helped at least one bald man when his feelings got hurt: "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." 2 Kings 2:23-24 I think if Jesus had been there he’d told Elisha that he did wrong for he didn’t realize the power he invoked! |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 12:30:43 GMT -5
You are 100% correct with that statement. Even more so it is not just responsibility to speak out about the truth or the 2x2s it's a responsibility to speak out about every abuse situation. What we have to remember about these particular cases recorded on 60 Minutes ,was that it happened quite some years ago. CSA was rife in all sorts of groups -church, sports,families and many many times went unreported. If it had been reported would the police have acted? I doubt it.They too were guilty of trivializing abuse. I am not excusing the historical abuse on this program in any way -it was absolutely disgusting, and is possibly only the tip of the iceberg, but to sit back and smugly say it was/is just a 2x2 problem is showing ignorance. Where you have a large number of people from cross section of society in a group, you will have abusers.No group can filter its members to avoid that but it is how they are dealt with that matters. I myself was abused by a family friend who was part of an apparently wonderful little local church group.It came to light later that some of his family knew about his abusing but chose not to say anything. That was not uncommon then. What is important is what groups do about abuse NOW. There is now no excuse for abuse to go unreported or to be covered up. People need to be educated to go immediately to the police. It is very hard to cover something that has been through the courts. With the law on their side, the power is actually in the hands of the people (in ANY group) It seems as though this is made a group thing/problem. More realistically it is a human nature problem so should we all be out there examining the world? This is a narrow minded approach to think we can have a single focus approach. Maybe my neighbors are suspect? Maybe my fellow employees at work are suspect? So it stands to reason reaching out to the entire world is what should be done. You are right. CSA isn’t just in the two by twos but is fairly rampant the world over! Why? Because evil will always pick on the most vulnerable! However the film was because the two by two church knew about the Catholic CSA issues, but as the reporter said, they didn’t learn a thing from all the news and legalities brought against the Catholics. |
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Post by snow on May 4, 2019 13:06:59 GMT -5
If it's God's choice who is his chosen and who is not, then it doesn't matter what we do we will never be able to act differently. Because what you are saying, as I understand it, is that God hardens people's hearts and then uses them to test his chosen. So how is it not contradictory to say God doesn't allow children to be abused (which clearly isn't our reality) and he does allow predators to abuse children (which is also our reality? Those two statements don't make any sense to me. If god uses reprobates as you state, then it clearly doesn't make any difference if they want to act differently, God won't allow it. In Pharaohs case it says that the Pharaoh wanted to let them go but God wasn't done with hardening his heart so he could teach the Israelites a lesson. Pharaoh had no choice. He couldn't even make a choice that would have been in his best interests, which btw, the bible does say he wanted to do until God hardened his heart again. And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exodus 9:12 The Pharaoh had no say in it. The Lord had the say and he hardened the Pharaoh's heart. No choice, period. Giving over to a reprobate mind is what God does to people who harden their own hearts. Which I guess in a way is how God hardens their hearts more simply because he ceases trying to do anything righteous with them. As I told Bob, go to gotquestions.com. For they have several answers for why God doesn’t stop abuse, etc. I don’t believe we should be blaspheming God for the evil that lurks in people’s minds and hearts. You can’t have God’s righteousness mixed in with the evil that humans allow in their lives. That IS free will. So you are claiming that people have to have a reprobate mind before God chooses to use you and harden your heart? You also claim that God chooses who he wants and the ones he doesn't want he uses to test the ones he does. You say God can't do such and such. But you also believe he's all powerful. How do you actually reconcile the contradictions in all of this. From scientific tests, we are starting to question if we do actually have free will. It's looking a lot like we don't. If our brain can make up our minds 10 seconds before we are aware of what we are going to choose, that is pretty startling, wouldn't you agree? The way I see it, we can absolutely blame God if he 1. hardens people's hearts 2. chooses who he wants and uses the rest of us to test his chosen & 3. he is all powerful yet he doesn't choose to save children from abuse. Even a human would save a child from it's abuser if they were able to. That's a huge point. |
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Post by snow on May 4, 2019 13:08:02 GMT -5
God helped at least one bald man when his feelings got hurt: "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." 2 Kings 2:23-24 I think if Jesus had been there he’d told Elisha that he did wrong for he didn’t realize the power he invoked! Well if the power was god, don't you think god should have known better and refused to respond to the invocation? |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 4, 2019 15:44:59 GMT -5
What a BS explanation! God has to facilitate human laws? Take your questions and doubts about God not stopping child abuse to gotquestions.com They’re a little better at trying to explain that it’s not God who should be blasphemed over child abuse, but the evil tendencies that reside in humans. I'm not concerned at all about the evil tendencies that reside in humans. I'm only saying that no one has a clue that god ignores the fate of little children. That is an excuse invented to preserve the reputation of god. More preposterous is that god would ignore such helpless victims for the purpose of catching predators. In police work that's called entrapment. This is apologetics in the absurd. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 17:25:55 GMT -5
I think if Jesus had been there he’d told Elisha that he did wrong for he didn’t realize the power he invoked! Well if the power was god, don't you think god should have known better and refused to respond to the invocation? Elisha had a double portion of Elijah’s spirit already. Think about the powers Jesus gave his apostles, one of them asked Jesus if they should call down some kind of revengence upon some who had reviled them. Jesus said that the Apostles didn’t know what kind of power they had. They already had the power, just as Elisha already had the power. Otherwords using a power given to be used to help people to relieve them of demons, illness, crippling maladies, etc; should never be invoked in the heat of anger or frustration. This is what Jesus taught them. Don’t do it just because you can. It isn’t the reason those powers were bestowed on you. |
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Post by snow on May 4, 2019 17:31:02 GMT -5
Well if the power was god, don't you think god should have known better and refused to respond to the invocation? Elisha had a double portion of Elijah’s spirit already. Think about the powers Jesus gave his apostles, one of them asked Jesus if they should call down some kind of revengence upon some who had reviled them. Jesus said that the Apostles didn’t know what kind of power they had. They already had the power, just as Elisha already had the power. Otherwords using a power given to be used to help people to relieve them of demons, illness, crippling maladies, etc; should never be invoked in the heat of anger or frustration. This is what Jesus taught them. Don’t do it just because you can. It isn’t the reason those powers were bestowed on you. Okay. Powers should be used responsibly, that we can agree on. I presume the power wasn't from God, or he could have withheld it then. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 17:34:46 GMT -5
Giving over to a reprobate mind is what God does to people who harden their own hearts. Which I guess in a way is how God hardens their hearts more simply because he ceases trying to do anything righteous with them. As I told Bob, go to gotquestions.com. For they have several answers for why God doesn’t stop abuse, etc. I don’t believe we should be blaspheming God for the evil that lurks in people’s minds and hearts. You can’t have God’s righteousness mixed in with the evil that humans allow in their lives. That IS free will. So you are claiming that people have to have a reprobate mind before God chooses to use you and harden your heart? You also claim that God chooses who he wants and the ones he doesn't want he uses to test the ones he does. You say God can't do such and such. But you also believe he's all powerful. How do you actually reconcile the contradictions in all of this. From scientific tests, we are starting to question if we do actually have free will. It's looking a lot like we don't. If our brain can make up our minds 10 seconds before we are aware of what we are going to choose, that is pretty startling, wouldn't you agree? The way I see it, we can absolutely blame God if he 1. hardens people's hearts 2. chooses who he wants and uses the rest of us to test his chosen & 3. he is all powerful yet he doesn't choose to save children from abuse. Even a human would save a child from it's abuser if they were able to. That's a huge point. A reprobate mind is totally without a conscience to start with. So how can we expect God to be able to do anything with them; other then turn them over to what they’ve begun for themselves. As I said, going around Robinhoid’s barn we could, I guess, still blame God for not doing something to the reprobated person. However we’re forgetting that God can’t do anything with them, he’s given them up to the path they’ve chosen. I suppose he could create some kind of situation and kill them or fry their evil parts but then; what would that do to the responsibilities of people around them? Just make it easier on people to go on living in their own little world and to hell with the rest of them! The problem as far as child abuse is concerned, it’s an age-old society problem. Children and women have always been classified as possessions to be done with as however the possessor wants to. This is the result of Eve sinning and causing Adam to fail to obey God. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 17:36:55 GMT -5
Elisha had a double portion of Elijah’s spirit already. Think about the powers Jesus gave his apostles, one of them asked Jesus if they should call down some kind of revengence upon some who had reviled them. Jesus said that the Apostles didn’t know what kind of power they had. They already had the power, just as Elisha already had the power. Otherwords using a power given to be used to help people to relieve them of demons, illness, crippling maladies, etc; should never be invoked in the heat of anger or frustration. This is what Jesus taught them. Don’t do it just because you can. It isn’t the reason those powers were bestowed on you. Okay. Powers should be used responsibly, that we can agree on. I presume the power wasn't from God, or he could have withheld it then. No, the power had already been given. To revoke it would bring in the issue of the reason Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of the world. That’s ne cancelling the desired effect of Christ’s death and resurrection. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2019 17:47:08 GMT -5
Take your questions and doubts about God not stopping child abuse to gotquestions.com They’re a little better at trying to explain that it’s not God who should be blasphemed over child abuse, but the evil tendencies that reside in humans. I'm not concerned at all about the evil tendencies that reside in humans. I'm only saying that no one has a clue that god ignores the fate of little children. That is an excuse invented to preserve the reputation of god. More preposterous is that god would ignore such helpless victims for the purpose of catching predators. In police work that's called entrapment. This is apologetics in the absurd. I don’t think anyone has said or inferred that God uses such evil just to “catch perpetrators “. I think what God does in the situations leaves it for humans to do some policing themselves. To take their responsibilities to society’s peace seriously. God gave the Mosaic law because of people not following the way of peace amongst themselves responsibly. Sin wasn’t sin until the law became a necessity. Sinners are people who trespass on one another. Thus laws are made so that people are protected against those who care less how they treat their fellow people. So somebody is going to have to do the policing or reporting to the right institutions of power to get such things stopped, curtailed, and perps punished for their breaking the law. Maybe if the people would make a law that when vulnerable people are abused, it’s the same thing as killing them. And they are to be judged accordingly. This giving of 5 years for molesting children, then are released in 2-3 years is not a very good deterrent. Yes, they have to register as a sex offender for the rest of their lives but so many times even that is nothing but a slap on the wrist. |
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Post by snow on May 4, 2019 18:32:51 GMT -5
So you are claiming that people have to have a reprobate mind before God chooses to use you and harden your heart? You also claim that God chooses who he wants and the ones he doesn't want he uses to test the ones he does. You say God can't do such and such. But you also believe he's all powerful. How do you actually reconcile the contradictions in all of this. From scientific tests, we are starting to question if we do actually have free will. It's looking a lot like we don't. If our brain can make up our minds 10 seconds before we are aware of what we are going to choose, that is pretty startling, wouldn't you agree? The way I see it, we can absolutely blame God if he 1. hardens people's hearts 2. chooses who he wants and uses the rest of us to test his chosen & 3. he is all powerful yet he doesn't choose to save children from abuse. Even a human would save a child from it's abuser if they were able to. That's a huge point. A reprobate mind is totally without a conscience to start with. So how can we expect God to be able to do anything with them; other then turn them over to what they’ve begun for themselves. As I said, going around Robinhoid’s barn we could, I guess, still blame God for not doing something to the reprobated person. However we’re forgetting that God can’t do anything with them, he’s given them up to the path they’ve chosen. I suppose he could create some kind of situation and kill them or fry their evil parts but then; what would that do to the responsibilities of people around them? Just make it easier on people to go on living in their own little world and to hell with the rest of them! The problem as far as child abuse is concerned, it’s an age-old society problem. Children and women have always been classified as possessions to be done with as however the possessor wants to. This is the result of Eve sinning and causing Adam to fail to obey God. Whoa wait a minute STR. How can you, a woman, buy into the fallacy that Eve is the reason all woman kind should be possessed by men? That is a Tertullian belief. I am appalled. And children, both male and female have been abused. I guess that's all due to that original sin. But these two things are one more reason why I believe religious belief is so dangerous to certain groups of people. If we buy into the belief that woman deserve what they get because of Eve, who we don't even know actually existed and isn't just a metaphor, we give permission to all of the horrible things that men do to women. That is not a moral stance imo. I don't know if you believe that mankind has evolved, but if you do, how can you even think of the Genesis story as anything but metaphor. There was no first man or woman if we evolved. Sure child abuse is an age old problem. So is owning women and treating them as chattel. But unless we change our views it will always be a problem. How is that a good thing? We must let go of all those things religions teach us that make life so horrific just because a primitive desert tribe felt it was an explanation for how the world began. If we don't, how do we advance morally as a species? |
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