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Post by joanna on Apr 26, 2019 20:39:35 GMT -5
@redback .
Your above post contains valuable information.
"First they must submit to external accountability . .... contact the police"
Any 2x2 member who knows, or even suspects CSA within the group should Act Now and go and report this.
This is the Only right action and if you fail to report that children are being abused or at risk of abuse, as someone else has recently written, it will permanently ruin a child's life . Who would want this on their conscience?
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Post by snow on Apr 27, 2019 12:11:26 GMT -5
@redback . Your above post contains valuable information. "First they must submit to external accountability . .... contact the police" Any 2x2 member who knows, or even suspects CSA within the group should Act Now and go and report this. This is the Only right action and if you fail to report that children are being abused or at risk of abuse, as someone else has recently written, it will permanently ruin a child's life . Who would want this on their conscience? I don't have any professing family anymore. They have all passed away. Most of my family weren't professing which was hard on me when I did profess. Aunts and uncles and cousins, a grandfather that I adored, all were said to be going to hell. That bothered me a lot. I am so glad I don't buy into this stuff anymore. |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2019 13:18:26 GMT -5
I'm not somewhere that I can watch this video at the moment. But I'm hoping that 60 Minutes at least got a comment from the workers ... or an interview at best ... in the interest of hearing from both sides. Kitto provided 60 Minutes with a statement which was read near the end of the program. Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 28, 2019 13:46:57 GMT -5
Kitto provided 60 Minutes with a statement which was read near the end of the program. Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Review has serious nerve problems! To put him on the spot to “side with the world against his peers” just might end up hurting him emotionally. He is strong at times but has setbacks. And I’m not sure many folks know what triggers those set backs. Bert has been adverse to criticisms against his church. However, since this news story is out, time will prove who obtains the nerve to start making the changes within. But that kind of change will likely have to come from the top down. So it may well be nothing lasting is done until this generation of leaders is dead and gone. That are members continue to trickle out. But the sense is present leaders don’t really care about that for their nests are well lined. It’s much like many groups in the world today! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 16:20:21 GMT -5
Kitto provided 60 Minutes with a statement which was read near the end of the program. Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Oh my God, don’t let Review loose with the media. |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 18:02:27 GMT -5
Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Review has serious nerve problems! To put him on the spot to “side with the world against his peers” just might end up hurting him emotionally. He is strong at times but has setbacks. And I’m not sure many folks know what triggers those set backs. Bert has been adverse to criticisms against his church. However, since this news story is out, time will prove who obtains the nerve to start making the changes within. But that kind of change will likely have to come from the top down. So it may well be nothing lasting is done until this generation of leaders is dead and gone. That are members continue to trickle out. But the sense is present leaders don’t really care about that for their nests are well lined. It’s much like many groups in the world today! Where did you get it that review had serious nerve problems? I was with him not long ago and that was certainly not apparent. He certainly would not be overseas if he had that problem. |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 18:03:09 GMT -5
Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Oh my God, don’t let Review loose with the media. Yea truth might come out. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 28, 2019 18:38:41 GMT -5
Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Review has serious nerve problems! To put him on the spot to “side with the world against his peers” just might end up hurting him emotionally. I have no idea who you're talking about, but just knowing what he seems to know would give anyone a nerve problem. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 28, 2019 19:01:36 GMT -5
Review has serious nerve problems! To put him on the spot to “side with the world against his peers” just might end up hurting him emotionally. He is strong at times but has setbacks. And I’m not sure many folks know what triggers those set backs. Bert has been adverse to criticisms against his church. However, since this news story is out, time will prove who obtains the nerve to start making the changes within. But that kind of change will likely have to come from the top down. So it may well be nothing lasting is done until this generation of leaders is dead and gone. That are members continue to trickle out. But the sense is present leaders don’t really care about that for their nests are well lined. It’s much like many groups in the world today! Where did you get it that review had serious nerve problems? I was with him not long ago and that was certainly not apparent. He certainly would be overseas if he had that problem. I think for the most part, he doesn’t show his problems. I think he does great considering all things. Did you ever stop to think the overseas stint might have something to do with it. He shouldered a lot of responsibility by himself for a time. I’m not saying he didn’t do his responsibility well but sometimes things take a toll on good people. |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 19:09:48 GMT -5
Where did you get it that review had serious nerve problems? I was with him not long ago and that was certainly not apparent. He certainly would be overseas if he had that problem. I think for the most part, he doesn’t show his problems. I think he does great considering all things. Did you ever stop to think the overseas stint might have something to do with it. He shouldered a lot of responsibility by himself for a time. I’m not saying he didn’t do his responsibility well but sometimes things take a toll on good people. You say you think? |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 28, 2019 19:14:19 GMT -5
I think for the most part, he doesn’t show his problems. I think he does great considering all things. Did you ever stop to think the overseas stint might have something to do with it. He shouldered a lot of responsibility by himself for a time. I’m not saying he didn’t do his responsibility well but sometimes things take a toll on good people. You say you think? From what I’ve read, IMO he does great considering all things. I just dont like it that he should be tossed in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2019 19:43:15 GMT -5
Review has serious nerve problems! To put him on the spot to “side with the world against his peers” just might end up hurting him emotionally. He is strong at times but has setbacks. And I’m not sure many folks know what triggers those set backs. Bert has been adverse to criticisms against his church. However, since this news story is out, time will prove who obtains the nerve to start making the changes within. But that kind of change will likely have to come from the top down. So it may well be nothing lasting is done until this generation of leaders is dead and gone. That are members continue to trickle out. But the sense is present leaders don’t really care about that for their nests are well lined. It’s much like many groups in the world today! Where did you get it that review had serious nerve problems? I was with him not long ago and that was certainly not apparent. He certainly would be overseas if he had that problem. Not sure I understand. How does being overseas fix "nerve problems"? |
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Post by thelight on Apr 28, 2019 19:54:32 GMT -5
On a side note, I noticed that there was never any promotion for "The Truth Hurts" segment (great name by the way!) on the 60 Minutes Australia facebook page? They seem to promote every other segment of each weekly program... but not this particular one? I wonder why?
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 20:15:39 GMT -5
Where did you get it that review had serious nerve problems? I was with him not long ago and that was certainly not apparent. He certainly would be overseas if he had that problem. Not sure I understand. How does being overseas fix "nerve problems"? Who said anything about fixing? |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 20:19:03 GMT -5
From what I’ve read, IMO he does great considering all things. I just dont like it that he should be tossed in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. What have you read that shows that he has serious nerve problems? When, where and by whom is tossing him in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 20:21:05 GMT -5
Not sure I understand. How does being overseas fix "nerve problems"? Who said anything about fixing? i think your post should have had this word in it " He certainly would NOT be overseas if he had that problem." therein lies the confusion..... |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 20:22:58 GMT -5
Who said anything about fixing? i think your post should have had this word in it " He certainly would NOT be overseas if he had that problem." therein lies the confusion..... Yes you are right, fixed now, sorry for any confusion. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 28, 2019 20:59:28 GMT -5
From what I’ve read, IMO he does great considering all things. I just dont like it that he should be tossed in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. What have you read that shows that he has serious nerve problems? When, where and by whom is tossing him in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. Someone posted his name as a go between in the CSA issue. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 28, 2019 21:01:50 GMT -5
Who said anything about fixing? i think your post should have had this word in it " He certainly would NOT be overseas if he had that problem." therein lies the confusion..... I think he meant he wouldn’t have been sent overseas if he had that problem. Which I don’t think he did. However if he’s gotten better and gone back overseas I am very, very happy for him. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 28, 2019 21:57:26 GMT -5
I've finally seen the Youtube and the Extension. While there was some poetic licenses with imagery, because who is going to be allowed to film an actual meeting, the crux of the program was about cases not proceeding as they should have, under law, in the first instance.
Ross was absolutely right in what he said.
It was important to note that this wasn't about the church, but about coverups of CSA in the church. Facts are facts are facts, and those who covered them up, need to face the music.
I understand that sometimes simple, but good intentioned men get blinkers on and feel that their first duty is to the church, but they cannot do that to the detriment of innocent and abused victims. "Render unto Caesar" means exactly that......the obligations to the law are sacrosanct.
If the 60 Minutes program helps prevent some abuse, and gives courage to victims to come forward, then we all owe a big thank you to Ross, 60 Minutes and others, including the victims who allowed their souls to be bared on the program.
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Post by speak on Apr 29, 2019 4:04:00 GMT -5
What have you read that shows that he has serious nerve problems? When, where and by whom is tossing him in as a go-between in a situation that seems so volatile right now. Someone posted his name as a go between in the CSA issue. Hmmmm |
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Post by fixit on Apr 29, 2019 5:03:39 GMT -5
I've finally seen the Youtube and the Extension. While there was some poetic licenses with imagery, because who is going to be allowed to film an actual meeting, the crux of the program was about cases not proceeding as they should have, under law, in the first instance. Ross was absolutely right in what he said. It was important to note that this wasn't about the church, but about coverups of CSA in the church. Facts are facts are facts, and those who covered them up, need to face the music. I understand that sometimes simple, but good intentioned men get blinkers on and feel that their first duty is to the church, but they cannot do that to the detriment of innocent and abused victims. "Render unto Caesar" means exactly that......the obligations to the law are sacrosanct. If the 60 Minutes program helps prevent some abuse, and gives courage to victims to come forward, then we all owe a big thank you to Ross, 60 Minutes and others, including the victims who allowed their souls to be bared on the program. Yes, there was considerable poetic licence and I expected better of 60 Minutes. Australian workers don't wave their bibles around like that when they're preaching. Also, using the cult word showed there was an agenda to discredit the church beyond the CSA concerns. |
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Post by joanna on Apr 29, 2019 5:28:45 GMT -5
fixit . And that agenda unfortunately undermined the focus on what the program was about - CSA within the 2x2 grp, though the victims were genuinely distraught about their treatment and lack of action and support from within the 2x2 grp. The other 60 minutes video i posted about CSA in another christian sect (pentecostal), featured advocates who, though not victims of abuse themselves, were directly concentrating on the child sex abuse more than on the culture of the church. The pentecostal pastor in that video was deeply moved and emotional when referring to the churches' failure to act. As previously mentioned, the Royal Commission identified that christian and other churches were consistently 'secretive' about the sexual abuse. The leaders tried to avoid scandal and save face and it is also clear that recognising and admitting that CSA occurs leads to compensation. Most churches worship the $$ and the secrecy and trying to ignore reports of CSA was also about protecting their wealth. Therefore the reference to the 2x2's secrecy was not a unique characteristic in the context of CSA. Anyone who is concerned with CSA in religious organisations would surely know of the Royal Commissions findings and recommendations and maintained an objective attitude to the 2x2's shocking disregard for those recommendations and the worker's legal obligations when informed of 2x2 child victims.
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daft
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Post by daft on Apr 29, 2019 7:37:20 GMT -5
How did 60 Minutes become aware of the CSA issue in this part of the world? I wonder if 60 Minutes in the US would be interested to know similar and other issues exist in the US. Also, it was their mention of Kitto being the "head of the church" (paraphrasing) that made me wonder if they realize this is a world-wide group, of which Kitto is just a small cog in a larger wheel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 7:51:57 GMT -5
How did 60 Minutes become aware of the CSA issue in this part of the world? I wonder if 60 Minutes in the US would be interested to know similar and other issues exist in the US. Also, it was their mention of Kitto being the "head of the church" (paraphrasing) that made me wonder if they realize this is a world-wide group, of which Kitto is just a small cog in a larger wheel. well i think it started with the RCC problem and just grew from there with people coming forward from other churches and organizations... i'm sure 60 minutes USA is working on it as we speak... have no idea... |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 29, 2019 12:09:11 GMT -5
I've finally seen the Youtube and the Extension. While there was some poetic licenses with imagery, because who is going to be allowed to film an actual meeting, the crux of the program was about cases not proceeding as they should have, under law, in the first instance. Ross was absolutely right in what he said. It was important to note that this wasn't about the church, but about coverups of CSA in the church. Facts are facts are facts, and those who covered them up, need to face the music. I understand that sometimes simple, but good intentioned men get blinkers on and feel that their first duty is to the church, but they cannot do that to the detriment of innocent and abused victims. "Render unto Caesar" means exactly that......the obligations to the law are sacrosanct. If the 60 Minutes program helps prevent some abuse, and gives courage to victims to come forward, then we all owe a big thank you to Ross, 60 Minutes and others, including the victims who allowed their souls to be bared on the program. Yes, there was considerable poetic licence and I expected better of 60 Minutes. Australian workers don't wave their bibles around like that when they're preaching. Also, using the cult word showed there was an agenda to discredit the church beyond the CSA concerns. They weren’t called a “cult” but said to have “cult-like” behaviors/actions. I see that as a big difference. Basically as it has been also said to call the two by twos a cult one could honestly call them a benign cult. Cult has always denoted a breaking off or new sect of religion. It’s only in the past recent years the word “cult” brings dirty, illegal, inhuman thoughts to people’s heads. But that doesn’t really always mean that. I think what the reporter mean and what Ross meant was the “tight” control over the church the workers have seemed to always hold over the members. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 29, 2019 12:17:56 GMT -5
How did 60 Minutes become aware of the CSA issue in this part of the world? I wonder if 60 Minutes in the US would be interested to know similar and other issues exist in the US. Also, it was their mention of Kitto being the "head of the church" (paraphrasing) that made me wonder if they realize this is a world-wide group, of which Kitto is just a small cog in a larger wheel. well i think it started with the RCC problem and just grew from there with people coming forward from other churches and organizations... i'm sure 60 minutes USA is working on it as we speak... have no idea... The 60Minutes reporter is aware of the website for CSA survivors. So she’d be or become aware of a multi-national CSA problem in the truth church. I think the reason for doing the 60 Minutes show on two by two CSA is due to the authorities frustrations with the workers’ way of not dealing with the issue in a legal manner, So as California authorities have warned workers about shuffling offenders here to yon and not legally reporting suspects of CSA or other criminal acts, that they would be sentenced themselves but maybe after seeing Australia’s film documentary, the authorities may ask that another be done in the US. Just like news has been reported in various places of the RCC CSA issues. |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:51:51 GMT -5
Yes, and supposedly he wasn't willing to be interviewed. Does anyone have contact info for review005 or Bert? They have been much more willing to speak publicly on behalf of the friends and workers. It would be good to pass that on to 60 Minutes producers for use in any follow-up that they do. Oh my God, don’t let Review loose with the media. Well lets look at it this way. The silver lining so to speak. No one will be joining the F&W's church if he gets loose in the media. |
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