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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 20:50:27 GMT -5
nathan were you there? No you weren't ! You are the one that is adding to history to try and make it fit with your views. Why is it so hard for you to accept that your church is just another church ?
Cherie K. added William Irvine founder of 2x2 in 1897 date herself! and you believed her William Irvine founding date hook line and sinker! What a fool you're.
If Cherie got the date wrong! and I have found many more things she is off the tracks about the 2x2 teachings also.
Maybe you should check your owns FACTS first nathan ! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 20:52:25 GMT -5
You wrote: "Reverend John McNeill, who was a Methodist evangelist." ***McNeill was a Presbyterian minister. See additional info re McNeill: www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_book/appendixD.phpRE your source: www.revolvy.com/topic/John%20George%20GovanRE: "He converted to evangelism in 1873 aged only 12."How does one convert to "evangelism"? ***Govan converted to Christ at age 12. He didn't become an evangelist til years later. A far better source you could use for Govan's background is the FM history book: Heritage of Revival by Colin Peckham whathat read this book. The book is posted on TTT with FM permission, and you have my permission to quote from it, provided you do so accurately, and you credit the book as your source. LINK: www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/heritage-revival.phpRE: Methodist ***So are you saying the Workers trace back to and came through the Methodist founded by John Wesley? RE Holiness Movement
***What was in this movement that was also used by the Early Workers?Maybe start with this  |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 20:53:31 GMT -5
Were you there, yourself? Were Cherie K. there herself? No, both of you were NOT either.
Cherie K. added William Irvine founder of 2x2 in 1897 date herself! and you believed her William Irvine founding date hook line and sinker! What a fool you're. , I have read Doug Parker's book, which backs up what Cherie has said. Also what you don't seem to get is some of us actually have generations of family who have been part of the 2x2's, some that go back to Ireland from the early days.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 20:54:19 GMT -5
nathan have a look at the picture, what does it say ? Stop trying to find a link that doesn't exist ! So they "look similar" so they MUST be the same ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 20:54:40 GMT -5
Were you there, yourself? Were Cherie K. there herself? No, both of you were NOT there either. So, I showed you the writings of John Long Journal and Goodhand Pattison who alive during that time.
Cherie K. added William Irvine founder of 2x2 in 1897 date herself! and you believed her William Irvine founding date hook line and sinker! What a fool you're.
If Cherie got the date wrong! and I have found many more things she is off the tracks about the 2x2 teachings also.
Maybe you should check your owns FACTS first nathan !
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Post by Grant on Sept 10, 2017 20:54:43 GMT -5
You wrote: "Reverend John McNeill, who was a Methodist evangelist." ***McNeill was a Presbyterian minister. See additional info re McNeill: www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_book/appendixD.phpRE your source: www.revolvy.com/topic/John%20George%20GovanRE: "He converted to evangelism in 1873 aged only 12."How does one convert to "evangelism"? ***Govan converted to Christ at age 12. He didn't become an evangelist til years later. A far better source you could use for Govan's background is the FM history book: Heritage of Revival by Colin Peckham whathat read this book. The book is posted on TTT with FM permission, and you have my permission to quote from it, provided you do so accurately, and you credit the book as your source. LINK: www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/heritage-revival.phpRE: Methodist ***So are you saying the Workers trace back to and came through the Methodist founded by John Wesley? RE Holiness Movement
***What was in this movement that was also used by the Early Workers?I do not see the workers 2x2s, or the Faith Mission in this later link.
www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/E-Books/holiness/Holiness%20Movement.gif
John Wesley adopted the Waldenses/Vaudois Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry .... The Holiness movement and the Faith Mission and the 2x2 William Irvine and friends/ workers adopted the Waldenses/Vaudois 2x2 workers apostolic ministry.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 20:57:42 GMT -5
nathan , I have read Doug Parker's book, which backs up what Cherie has said. Also what you don't seem to get is some of us actually have generations of family who have been part of the 2x2's, some that go back to Ireland from the early days.
The difference is nathan, Doug went to Ireland and he done his research, he knew John Hardie personally he experinced it first hand. |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 20:59:24 GMT -5
Diagram of the Holiness movement (John Wesley founder)....
www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/E-Books/holiness/Holiness%20Movement.gif
John Wesley adopted the Waldenses/Vaudois Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry .... The Holiness movement and the Faith Mission and the 2x2 William Irvine and friends/ workers adopted the Waldenses/Vaudois 2x2 workers apostolic ministry.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 20:59:33 GMT -5
Maybe you should check your owns FACTS first nathan !
, CherieKropp has posted something today that you have stated that is WRONG ! So don't say you have checked your facts ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 21:08:31 GMT -5
I have read Doug Parker, the Secret Sect book too! He was getting his information for the book from workers who weren't there either... they didn't really KNOW the beginning either. I wish he had read John Long Journal, his book the secret sect and his life would have been so different.
The difference is nathan , Doug went to Ireland and he done his research, he knew John Hardie personally he experinced it first hand. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 10, 2017 21:10:08 GMT -5
These Early workers said it started in 1897
Wilson McClung gave a sworn testimony (Lloyd's Weekly News, December 23, 1906) "The sect, continued McClung, had been in existence eight or nine years, a man named Irvine being 'the first to step out.'" This goes back to the years 1897-1898
John Long: Footnote in Heresies Exposed: Mr. John Long has written us that he was the man who obtained for William Irvine 'the first opening for a mission in Nenagh, August, 1897.' That 'William Irvine is the name of the original leader of the Go-Preachers. Irvine Weir was one of the first staff of preachers who emigrated to America; these two names seem to have got mixed up.' He declares that the movement dates from 1897
John Long - AUGUST, 1897: I left Tarbert, and went to my Aunt Kate Davis, in Ballyheigue, where I spent two weeks. William Irvine and Fred Tapp left also and went to Spanish Point, and from there to Nenagh where THE REVIVAL BEGAN...The Revival began in a town which was mostly a Roman population, under very unfavourable circumstances; owing to bad attendances, the Methodist Church was closed, as the Protestants in that town were few in number. At his [Wm Irvine’s] first meeting only five persons attended; but at the closing meeting, there were one hundred present. He fought the battle and won the victory alone in prayer with God in his lodging, when God gave him that promise; "And lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee." Acts 27:24. The Protestant School Mistress, Sister Oakley, was the first to get saved; altogether upwards of thirty persons of position and note got converted; most of them afterwards gave up all that they had to follow Jesus.
1897 – EDWARD COONEY: In the King’s Bench Division, London, on Thursday, before Mr. Justice Darling questioning Edward Cooney: “Mr. Justice Darling—Were you the founder of this sect?—No, William Irvine was the first, about sixteen years ago. I cast in my lot with him as a fellow-preacher, and preached a good deal in the north of Ireland” (IR, Dec. 18, 1913). NOTE: 1913 minus 16 years equals 1897. Ed Cooney was under oath when he made this statement.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 21:11:36 GMT -5
The difference is nathan , Doug went to Ireland and he done his research, he knew John Hardie personally he experinced it first hand. I think you better "double check" when John Hardie started in work nathan ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 21:17:16 GMT -5
These Early workers said it started in 1897 Wilson McClung gave a sworn testimony (Lloyd's Weekly News, December 23, 1906) "The sect, continued McClung, had been in existence eight or nine years, a man named Irvine being 'the first to step out.'" This goes back to the years 1897-1898 John Long: Footnote in Heresies Exposed: Mr. John Long has written us that he was the man who obtained for William Irvine 'the first opening for a mission in Nenagh, August, 1897.' That 'William Irvine is the name of the original leader of the Go-Preachers. Irvine Weir was one of the first staff of preachers who emigrated to America; these two names seem to have got mixed up.' He declares that the movement dates from 1897 John Long - AUGUST, 1897: I left Tarbert, and went to my Aunt Kate Davis, in Ballyheigue, where I spent two weeks. William Irvine and Fred Tapp left also and went to Spanish Point, and from there to Nenagh where THE REVIVAL BEGAN...The Revival began in a town which was mostly a Roman population, under very unfavourable circumstances; owing to bad attendances, the Methodist Church was closed, as the Protestants in that town were few in number. At his [Wm Irvine’s] first meeting only five persons attended; but at the closing meeting, there were one hundred present. He fought the battle and won the victory alone in prayer with God in his lodging, when God gave him that promise; "And lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee." Acts 27:24. The Protestant School Mistress, Sister Oakley, was the first to get saved; altogether upwards of thirty persons of position and note got converted; most of them afterwards gave up all that they had to follow Jesus. 1897 – EDWARD COONEY: In the King’s Bench Division, London, on Thursday, before Mr. Justice Darling questioning Edward Cooney: “Mr. Justice Darling—Were you the founder of this sect?— No, William Irvine was the first, about sixteen years ago. I cast in my lot with him as a fellow-preacher, and preached a good deal in the north of Ireland” (IR, Dec. 18, 1913). NOTE: 1913 minus 16 years equals 1897. Ed Cooney was under oath when he made this statement.
2) If William Irvine was the founder of the 2x2 in 1897 then Why, he was recruiting John Long to join the Faith Mission in 1898?
3) If William Irvine was the founder of 2x2 in 1897 then why, he waited until 12/1900 to leave the Faith Mission group and join the 2x2?
Can you answer my 3 questions, Cherie?
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 10, 2017 21:20:46 GMT -5
Yes - I and others have explained it to you many times over.
THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE.
By the way, in case you havent noticed, I leave you alone and don't protest your statements UNLESS you make a statement that isn't historically true about the 2x2 Sect history. I draw the line there. So if you don't want me to butt into your threads...just make sure your statements are accurate so far as 2x2 history goes.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 21:56:04 GMT -5
The workers whom Doug Parker interviewed were like 2nd or 3rd generation of workers, they did KNOW the beginning like John Long did! They were NOT first hand workers.... The workers really KNEW what really happened Doug Parker should interview was Jack, May Carroll, George Walker.... I think you better "double check" when John Hardie started in work nathan !  Before you go and make statements like this I think you better check your FACTS ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 22:21:26 GMT -5
These Early workers said it started in 1897 Wilson McClung gave a sworn testimony (Lloyd's Weekly News, December 23, 1906) "The sect, continued McClung, had been in existence eight or nine years, a man named Irvine being 'the first to step out.'" This goes back to the years 1897-1898 John Long: Footnote in Heresies Exposed: Mr. John Long has written us that he was the man who obtained for William Irvine 'the first opening for a mission in Nenagh, August, 1897.' That 'William Irvine is the name of the original leader of the Go-Preachers. Irvine Weir was one of the first staff of preachers who emigrated to America; these two names seem to have got mixed up.' He declares that the movement dates from 1897 John Long - AUGUST, 1897: I left Tarbert, and went to my Aunt Kate Davis, in Ballyheigue, where I spent two weeks. William Irvine and Fred Tapp left also and went to Spanish Point, and from there to Nenagh where THE REVIVAL BEGAN...The Revival began in a town which was mostly a Roman population, under very unfavourable circumstances; owing to bad attendances, the Methodist Church was closed, as the Protestants in that town were few in number. At his [Wm Irvine’s] first meeting only five persons attended; but at the closing meeting, there were one hundred present. He fought the battle and won the victory alone in prayer with God in his lodging, when God gave him that promise; "And lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee." Acts 27:24. The Protestant School Mistress, Sister Oakley, was the first to get saved; altogether upwards of thirty persons of position and note got converted; most of them afterwards gave up all that they had to follow Jesus. 1897 – EDWARD COONEY: In the King’s Bench Division, London, on Thursday, before Mr. Justice Darling questioning Edward Cooney: “Mr. Justice Darling—Were you the founder of this sect?— No, William Irvine was the first, about sixteen years ago. I cast in my lot with him as a fellow-preacher, and preached a good deal in the north of Ireland” (IR, Dec. 18, 1913). NOTE: 1913 minus 16 years equals 1897. Ed Cooney was under oath when he made this statement.
2) If William Irvine was the founder of the 2x2 in 1897 then Why, he was recruiting John Long to join the Faith Mission in 1898?
3) If William Irvine was the founder of 2x2 in 1897 then why, he waited until 12/1900 to leave the Faith Mission group and join the 2x2?
Can you answer my 3 questions, Cherie?
CherieKropp said: Yes - I and others have explained it to you many times over. THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE. By the way, in case you havent noticed, I leave you alone and don't protest your statements UNLESS you make a statement that isn't historically true about the 2x2 Sect history. I draw the line there. So if you don't want me to butt into your threads...just make sure your statements are accurate so far as 2x2 history goes. ~~ NathanB: No, I want to hear it from the horses mouth... explain to me one more time. You have studied Goodhand Pattison account and John Long Journal.
Correct me, if my 3 questions are WRONG, Cherie. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 10, 2017 23:06:05 GMT -5
The difference is nathan , Doug went to Ireland and he done his research, he knew John Hardie personally he experinced it first hand. you need to correct this as it is NOT right. Nathan said : "John Hardie was NOT there from the beginning." |
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 23:54:14 GMT -5
The workers whom Doug Parker interviewed were like 2nd or 3rd generation of workers, they did NOT KNOW the beginning like John Long! He was there from the start, John Hardie was NOT there from the beginning.... The workers really KNEW what really happened Doug Parker should interview for his secret sect book were Jack, May, Bill Carroll, George Walker.... you need to correct this as it is NOT right. Nathan said : "John Hardie was NOT there from the beginning."
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 11, 2017 0:02:30 GMT -5
nathan you need to correct this as it is NOT right. Nathan said : "John Hardie was NOT there from the beginning."
, Edward Cooney went in the work AFTER John Hardie ! So if you are going to say Edward Cooney was there from the beginning so was John Hardie ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 11, 2017 0:04:38 GMT -5
Yes, like I said John Hardie ( JOHN Hardie was born in Scotland in 1870 and went in the work in 1900. On the 24th July 1904, John and Sandy Alexander arrived in Melbourne from the U.K. per ship Medic) WAS NOT there from the beginning.... like William Irvine, John Long, Goodhand Pattison, Jack, May, Carroll, George Walker, Edward Cooney....
, Edward Cooney went in the work AFTER John Hardie ! So if you are going to say Edward Cooney was there from the beginning so was John Hardie !
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Post by Grant on Sept 11, 2017 0:18:31 GMT -5
I had testimonies of Martin Luther, Calvin, John Wesley and many of the Reformers testimonies how they praised the Vaudois/Waldensians teachings and belief as the early Reformers against the RCC and their pagans doctrines.
John Wesley was an Anglican and started the Methodist church. They were and are protestants and protestants were and are against the RCC. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 11, 2017 0:27:52 GMT -5
nathan , Edward Cooney went in the work AFTER John Hardie ! So if you are going to say Edward Cooney was there from the beginning so was John Hardie !
what you have stated is WRONG ! I have shown you it is WRONG ! Is this an example of how you do your research ? |
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Post by nathan on Sept 11, 2017 1:01:07 GMT -5
He might but Edward Cooney met William Irvine in 1898 when he was still a Faith Mission preacher. what you have stated is WRONG ! I have shown you it is WRONG ! Is this an example of how you do your research ? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 11, 2017 1:05:20 GMT -5
nathan what you have stated is WRONG ! I have shown you it is WRONG ! Is this an example of how you do your research ? I am talking about your statement about John Hardie ! Have a look at some old photos ! There are photos of William Irvine and John Hardie together and you try to tell us he wasn't there from the beginning ! |
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Post by nathan on Sept 11, 2017 1:10:33 GMT -5
You need to read John Long Journal.... I am not going to do your homework for you again and again... I am talking about your statement about John Hardie ! Have a look at some old photos ! There are photos of William Irvine and John Hardie together and you try to tell us he wasn't there from the beginning !
You're DRIVING me NUTS again!  Stop doing this or I will BLOCK you forever....
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 11, 2017 2:07:36 GMT -5
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Post by Greg on Sept 11, 2017 5:27:58 GMT -5
John Long! He was there from the start, John Hardie was NOT there from the beginning.... So, the beginning was before John Hardie entered the work and after John Long met William Irvine. The beginning. |
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Post by Greg on Sept 11, 2017 5:33:01 GMT -5
Let me repeat one more time for you and I am DONE with you.... He wasn't with the group William Irvine, John Long, Edward Cooney, George Walker, Jack Carroll, May Carroll in 1897-8.... John Hardie was later. You're DRIVING me NUTS again! Stop doing this or I will BLOCK you forever.... The beginning. 1897-8. |
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Stop doing this or I will BLOCK you forever....