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Post by nathan on Sept 1, 2017 22:53:55 GMT -5
What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats?
Jesus begins the parable by saying it concerns His return in glory to set up His kingdom (Matthew 25:31). Therefore, the setting of this event is at the beginning of the millennium, after the tribulation. All those on earth at that time will be brought before the Lord, and He will separate them “as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left” (verses 32–33). The sheep are those who were saved during the tribulation; the goats are the unsaved who survived the tribulation. The sheep on Jesus’ right hand are blessed by God the Father and given an inheritance. The reason is stated: “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me” (verses 35-36). The righteous will not understand: when did they see Jesus in such a pitiful condition and help Him? “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine (God's true servants and followers through the centuries), you did for me’” (verses 39-40). The goats on Jesus’ left hand are cursed with eternal hell-fire, “prepared for the devil and his angels” (verse 41). The reason is given: they had opportunity to minister to the Lord, but they did nothing (verses 42-43). The damned ask, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” (verse 44). Jesus replies, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these (God's true servants and people through the centuries), you did not do for me” (verse 45). Jesus then ends the discourse with a contrast: “They will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (verse 46). The core message of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats is that God’s people will love others. Good works will result from our relationship to the Shepherd. Followers of Christ will treat others with kindness, serving them as if they were serving Christ Himself. The unregenerate live in the opposite manner. While “goats” can indeed perform acts of kindness and charity, their hearts are not right with God, and their actions are not for the right purpose – to honor and worship God.
www.gotquestions.org/parable-sheep-goats.htmlIs the deity of Christ biblical?
In addition to Jesus’ specific claims about Himself, His disciples also acknowledged the deity of Christ. They claimed that Jesus had the right to forgive sins—something only God can do—as it is God who is offended by sin (Acts 5:31; Colossians 3:13; Psalm 130:4; Jeremiah 31:34). In close connection with this last claim, 1) Jesus is also said to be the one who will “judge the living and the dead” (2 Timothy 4:1).
2) Thomas cried out to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). 3) Paul calls Jesus “great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13) and points out that prior to His incarnation Jesus existed in the “form of God” (Philippians 2:5-8). God the Father says regarding Jesus: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever” (Hebrews 1:8). John states that “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God” (John 1:1). Examples of Scriptures that teach the deity of Christ are many (see Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 22:13; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 2:6-8; Psalm 18:2, 95:1; 1 Peter 5:4; Hebrews 13:20), but even one of these is enough to show that Christ was considered to be God by His followers. What is Godhead?The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean. Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés. According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].” Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9). In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3). www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.htmlAbout Brad Lewis.....
professing.proboards.com/thread/5208/brad-lewis-lose?page=1
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Post by nathan on Sept 6, 2017 20:11:54 GMT -5
~~ NathanB: Most of the workers and friends do NOT believe in Apostolic Succession but what they don't KNOW or Understanding is the 2x2 workers have 117 years plus of 2x2 workers succession since the days of William Irvine.
What Cherie K. failed to tell the readers from the beginning of the creation TTT website in 1990s was/is that Jesus 2x2 apostolic/workers New Testament ministry and fellowship have existed for 1800 years prior to the Faith Mission and 2x2 workers movement.
Here are two of the reasons why William Irvine, and some of the the Faith Mission preachers, and his converts (Jack, May, Bill Carroll and two more sisters, John Long, Edward Cooney) join him after 12/1900
Impartial Newspaper 1910 The Tramp Preachers (2x2)
William Irvine gave up his connection with the Faith Mission for TWO reasons, according to my information 1st because John G. Govan the founder of the Faith Mission 1886 was alleged to have been a "hypocrite" in that while teaching the pilgrims/preachers/workers to live by Faith when he himself had over hundreds of pounds!
2nd reason because Mr. Irvine converts always lapsed and were lost among the clergy by going back to their own congregation or what is KNOWN as churches.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Impartialrep25aug1910.jpg
~~ NathanB: The Faith Mission sent their converts back to the churches that they came out of or join any churches they wanted. Join the churches of your choice. Like sending them back to the bottomless pit they just came out of. There were other reasons, the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 8, 2017 1:07:41 GMT -5
Nathans posts are too long and boring The average wooden power pole talks more sense than Nathan. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 7:39:57 GMT -5
Nate, I have not found anything in writing about why the few early workers left the Faith Mission.
Can you support the above statement with quotes from some document?
Also, the FM didn't hold Sunday worship services...they attended other churches where they could take communion.
Even Wm Irvine did not give the reasons you gave above re baptism and communion.
The PRESS criticized the Sect for not doing those things.
Irvine didn't add baptism or communion to their 2x2 belief system for awhile AFTER they began to hold Sunday fellowship meetings.
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 8:03:03 GMT -5
Nate, I have not found anything in writing about why the few early workers left the Faith Mission. Can you support the above statement with quotes from some document? Also, the FM didn't hold Sunday worship services...they attended other churches where they could take communion. Even Wm Irvine did not give the reasons you gave above re baptism and communion. The PRESS criticized the Sect for not doing those things. Irvine didn't add baptism or communion to their 2x2 belief system for awhile AFTER they began to hold Sunday fellowship meetings.
From John Long Journal:
~~ 7/ 1902:
About that time Edward Cooney (2x2 worker) began to baptize his converts and form assemblies according to the model in the Acts, namely meeting together on the first day of the week for fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers. The opposition against the work from the clergy and churches rendered it necessary to reform, also the responsibility of shepherding young converts. William Irvine shrank from this great and responsible undertaking; but afterwards went into it. This produced fresh opposition especially when important persons left their churches to go in with an improved testimony.
8/ 1903: At William Irvine’s request, I went to County Tipperary and baptized many disciples; and helped to form there assemblies. One in Cloughjordan in the home of Goodhand Pattison; also in the home of Falkiners, Hillsborough, Borrisokane; and in the home of Hodgins, Lorrha. Then I took a walking tour through Clare and Galway speaking to Roman Catholics about our Saviour. From there I went by train to Enniskillen where I spent a few days in the home of Thomas Betty who married [Faith Mission] Pilgrim Pendry [Elizabeth Pendreigh] before mentioned. Soon afterwards, Thomas and his wife gave up their farm and went fully on the Lords work; also Thomas Elliott and his wife did likewise. Having returned to County Antrim again and removed our Tent to Ahoghill, Samuel Jones (2x2 worker) [TTT Editor: Sam Jones, the songwriter] joined me as partner.
Started baptizing and re-baptizing for the FIRST time; and withdrawing from churches and forming their own home churches.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 8:41:30 GMT -5
Exactly. And Cooney was never in FM.
It wasn't as you wrote, workers who left FM because FM didn't baptize, hold worship services or take communion.
If you want to remove that part of your post--I'll remove my post above taking issue with what you wrote and will also remove this post.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 9:53:26 GMT -5
You didn't and I didn't say that you did.
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 11:21:00 GMT -5
You didn't and I didn't say that you did. *** So, what are you talking about which part in my post should be removed? |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 11:28:39 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 19:48:21 GMT -5
Yea, that is correct! about the Faith Mission teachings in those early days... So, why do you say I need to remove it?
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 20:42:01 GMT -5
Yea, that is correct! about the Faith Mission teachings in those early days... So, why do you say I need to remove it? Because its false! Just like I told you above at: professing.proboards.com/post/753227 |
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 20:51:06 GMT -5
Yea, that is correct! about the Faith Mission teachings in those early days... So, why do you say I need to remove it? Because its false! Just like I told you above at: professing.proboards.com/post/753227Impartial Newspaper 1910 The Tramp Preachers (2x2) William Irvine gave up his connection with the Faith Mission for TWO reasons, according to my information 1st because John G. Govan the founder of the Faith Mission 1886 was alleged to have been a "hypocrite" in that while teaching the pilgrims/preachers/workers to live by Faith when he himself had over hundreds of pounds!2nd reason because Mr. Irvine converts always lapsed and were lost among the clergy by going back to their own congregation or what is KNOWN as churches. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Impartialrep25aug1910.jpg ~~ NathanB: The Faith Mission sent their converts back to the churches that they came out of or join any churches they wanted. Join the churches of your choice. Like sending them back to the bottomless pit they just came out of. There were other reasons, the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services. From John Long Journal: 7/ 1902: About that time Edward Cooney (2x2 worker) began to baptize his converts and form assemblies according to the model in the Acts, namely meeting together on the first day of the week for fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers. The opposition against the work from the clergy and churches rendered it necessary to reform, also the responsibility of shepherding young converts. William Irvine shrank from this great and responsible undertaking; but afterwards went into it. This produced fresh opposition especially when important persons left their churches to go in with an improved testimony. 8/ 1903: At William Irvine’s request, I went to County Tipperary and baptized many disciples; and helped to form there assemblies. One in Cloughjordan in the home of Goodhand Pattison; also in the home of Falkiners, Hillsborough, Borrisokane; and in the home of Hodgins, Lorrha. Then I took a walking tour through Clare and Galway speaking to Roman Catholics about our Saviour. From there I went by train to Enniskillen where I spent a few days in the home of Thomas Betty who married [Faith Mission] Pilgrim Pendry [Elizabeth Pendreigh] before mentioned. Soon afterwards, Thomas and his wife gave up their farm and went fully on the Lords work; also Thomas Elliott and his wife did likewise. Having returned to County Antrim again and removed our Tent to Ahoghill, Samuel Jones (2x2 worker) [TTT Editor: Sam Jones, the songwriter] joined me as partner. Started baptizing and re-baptizing for the FIRST time; and withdrawing from churches and forming their own home churches. |
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Post by Grant on Sept 8, 2017 21:07:24 GMT -5
Where does it say that the workers left the Faith Mission because they did not baptise their converts, Nathan? You have not shown any evidence to support the claim you have made.
I'm also not sure if Cooney was ever in the Faith Mission, was he?
And also how do you know they did not have the bread and wine when they were together? I'm sure as with other Christians that when a group of them are together on a Sunday morning they often have Bible reading, fellowship and bread and wine. They do not usually go about their daily activities on a Sunday. Even if 2 are there they sometimes do it. It does not have to be a formally arranged thing. There are even those who have communion with patients one on one in hosptial at their bedside.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 8, 2017 21:41:54 GMT -5
Nate - SLOWLY read what you wrote above that I objected to: "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Where are any documents saying this is the reason a very few FM workers left FM??? There are none!!
Wm Irvine was ONE person...you gave some reasons from the Impartial Reporter as to why HE left--but you do not know why "the early workerS left." This is why your statement is false.
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 22:56:42 GMT -5
Nate - SLOWLY read what you wrote above that I objected to: "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Where are any documents saying this is the reason a very few FM workers left FM??? There are none!! Wm Irvine was ONE person...you gave some reasons from the Impartial Reporter as to why HE left-- but you do not know why "the early workerS left." This is why your statement is false.
An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.
They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others. The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 8, 2017 23:34:59 GMT -5
Nate - SLOWLY read what you wrote above that I objected to: "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Where are any documents saying this is the reason a very few FM workers left FM??? There are none!! Wm Irvine was ONE person...you gave some reasons from the Impartial Reporter as to why HE left-- but you do not know why "the early workerS left." This is why your statement is false.
An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.
They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others. The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly. , is the red text what was originally said or is that you adding your slant ? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 8, 2017 23:43:42 GMT -5
I notice that you left this part out nathan "The movement grew and spread rapidly. Some mistakes were made, the chief of which came to light in 1914. These were: 1. They became a registered sect to avoid military service during World War I. They were registered in London as 'Testimony of Jesus'. 2. The 'living witness' doctrine introduced circa 1905 held William Irvine to be a prophet raised up to protest against the evils of Christendom. This could have been in order; only that to it was added that none could be 'born again' except through hearing the gospel from Irvine or the preachers in fellowship with him. This dangerous doctrine was based on Romans 10, imperfectly understood. For a careful study of the text shows God speaking through the heavens (nature), through the law (Scripture) and then through the preacher, the words of whose mouth and the meditations of whose heart are acceptable in God's sight. In 1914 Edward Cooney and Tom Elliott rejected this doctrine as a heresy that savoured not of God, but of man." www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/cooneyed.php |
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Post by nathan on Sept 8, 2017 23:56:06 GMT -5
Where does it say that the workers left the Faith Mission because they did not baptise their converts, Nathan? You have not shown any evidence to support the claim you have made. I'm also not sure if Cooney was ever in the Faith Mission, was he?
And also how do you know they did not have the bread and wine when they were together? I'm sure as with other Christians that when a group of them are together on a Sunday morning they often have Bible reading, fellowship and bread and wine. They do not usually go about their daily activities on a Sunday. Even if 2 are there they sometimes do it. It does not have to be a formally arranged thing. There are even those who have communion with patients one on one in hosptial at their bedside. Sept 8, 2017 5:39:57 GMT -7 CherieKropp said: Also, the Faith Mission didn't hold Sunday worship services...they attended other churches where they could take communion.
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Post by Grant on Sept 9, 2017 1:34:26 GMT -5
They did not hold church services but there was nothing to stop them having communion together. You dont need church to have communion.
There was nothing to say the workers left the Faith Mission because they did not have communion. Like Cherie said, you made that up.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 9, 2017 3:58:49 GMT -5
My view, after reading about these early workers in Faith Mission is that they saw how much money they were passing back to Faith Mission and decided to set up shop for themselves. Cornering that money was the motive for the new church.
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Post by nathan on Sept 9, 2017 7:54:55 GMT -5
They did not hold church services but there was nothing to stop them having communion together. You dont need church to have communion. There was nothing to say the workers left the Faith Mission because they did not have communion. Like Cherie said, you made that up. Sept 8, 2017 5:39:57 GMT -7 CherieKropp said: Also, the Faith Mission didn't hold Sunday worship services...they attended other churches where they could take communion.
Impartial Newspaper 1910 The Tramp Preachers (2x2)William Irvine gave up his connection with the Faith Mission for TWO reasons, according to my information 1st because John G. Govan the founder of the Faith Mission 1886 was alleged to have been a "hypocrite" in that while teaching the pilgrims/preachers/workers to live by Faith when he himself had over hundreds of pounds!2nd reason because Mr. Irvine converts always lapsed and were lost among the clergy by going back to their own congregation or what is KNOWN as churches.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Impartialrep25aug1910.jpg |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 9, 2017 8:41:00 GMT -5
Ida West statement does NOT indicate the untrue reasons you wrote about the early workers; that "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Don't expect people to believe what you write when you insert your own thinking into your tales and can't back them up with documents.
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Post by snow on Sept 9, 2017 11:30:18 GMT -5
I think that the bible is a lot of the same stuff as what Nathan does. They inserted their own views and changed things that they didn't agree with. We see it happen all the time.
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Post by nathan on Sept 9, 2017 14:06:45 GMT -5
I think that the bible is a lot of the same stuff as what Nathan does. They inserted their own views and changed things that they didn't agree with. We see it happen all the time. **** Amen. The authors of the New Testament inserted their views and understanding so the readers have a clearer picture of prophecies and events. |
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Post by nathan on Sept 9, 2017 14:12:12 GMT -5
Ida West statement does NOT indicate the untrue reasons you wrote about the early workers; that "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Don't expect people to believe what you write when you insert your own thinking into your tales and can't back them up with documents.
*** Yea, right! Like You who wrote and inserted your own idea that William Irvine is the founder of 2x2 in 1897 when there was no 2x2 worker or friend exist in 1897. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 9, 2017 14:15:33 GMT -5
Nate, what church did Govan come out of?
What was the name of the 2x2 ministers in your tracing--before Govan?
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Post by Grant on Sept 9, 2017 15:29:13 GMT -5
Ida West statement does NOT indicate the untrue reasons you wrote about the early workers; that "the early workers left the Faith Mission, because they did NOT baptize their converts. They did not partake the communion or Bread and Wine in their Sunday worship services."
Don't expect people to believe what you write when you insert your own thinking into your tales and can't back them up with documents. *** Yea, right! Like You who wrote and inserted your own idea that William Irvine is the founder of 2x2 in 1897 when there was no 2x2 worker or friend exist in 1897. My understanding is that the first workers started having their independent missions in 1897. This was the beginning of what grew into what some call the 2x2s. Irvine kept getting Faith Mission funds until they found out he had actually been forming his own movement separate from them. His own band of workers were well established before they found out and stopped his payments. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 9, 2017 20:31:42 GMT -5
My understanding is that the first workers started having their independent missions in 1897. This was the beginning of what grew into what some call the 2x2s. Irvine kept getting Faith Mission funds until they found out he had actually been forming his own movement separate from them. His own band of workers were well established before they found out and stopped his payments. **** that is NOT TRUE! In 1898 William Irvine was recruiting John long to join the FAITH Mission pilgrims/preacher rank but he declined. So you have the proof to back that up nathan ? Or are you changing things again to suit your own agenda/beliefs ? |
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