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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 15, 2017 7:11:48 GMT -5
NOT!! Cooney did not start in the work in 1899...and there is no record that he gave his money "to the work/ministry"--that is speculation, and is not documented. Edward Cooney’s last appointment before he entered the work full time was to attend the wedding of Bill Carroll and Margaret Hastings held in Borrisokane, Co. Tipperary on June 6, 1901. They later entered the work in 1903 as married couple. View their Wedding Photo. However, while Cooney was under oath in a 1913 court case, he emphatically stated that he was not the founder of the Sect to Mr. Justice Darling who asked him: "Were you the founder of this sect? Cooney replied: No, William Irvine was the first, about sixteen years ago. I cast in my lot with him as a fellow-preacher, and preached a good deal in the north of Ireland. I recognise the name, but others have nicknamed us ‘The Cooneyites.’ I do not like it myself " (IR, Dec.18, 1913, p. 3). 1901, JUNE 6: COONEY BECOMES A WORKER: In 1901, Cooney gave up his business interests, donated the funds (reportedly 1,300 pounds, a small fortune in those days) and became a Worker in Irvine's movement. Reports vary as to how he donated his money. Some say it went "to the cause," or to Wm. Irvine or "to the poor. Nate, you really seem confused about Ed Cooney. Have you read ANY of the late Patricia Roberts books about Ed Cooney? She was a "Cooneyite," was his official biographer and lived in Enniskillen, where Cooney was born and raised. Books by Patricia Roberts: 1. The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney, 1867-1960, 1990 (ISBN 0 9510109 4 8) 2. Selected Letters, Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney, 1867-1960, 1991 3. Selected Letters of Fred Wood 1890-1986, 1997 4. The Go Preacher Movement- An Anthology, 2000 Published by William Trimble, Ltd., Enniskillen, N. Ireland Note: Patricia Roberts passed away September 29, 2014 |
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Post by nathan on Sept 15, 2017 10:35:58 GMT -5
NOT!! Cooney did not start in the work in 1899...and there is no record that he gave his money "to the work/ministry"--that is speculation, and is not documented. Edward Cooney’s last appointment before he entered the work full time was to attend the wedding of Bill Carroll and Margaret Hastings held in Borrisokane, Co. Tipperary on June 6, 1901. They later entered the work in 1903 as married couple. View their Wedding Photo. However, while Cooney was under oath in a 1913 court case, he emphatically stated that he was not the founder of the Sect to Mr. Justice Darling who asked him: "Were you the founder of this sect? Cooney replied: No, William Irvine was the first, about sixteen years ago. I cast in my lot with him as a fellow-preacher, and preached a good deal in the north of Ireland. I recognise the name, but others have nicknamed us ‘The Cooneyites.’ I do not like it myself " (IR, Dec.18, 1913, p. 3). 1901, JUNE 6: COONEY BECOMES A WORKER: In 1901, Cooney gave up his business interests, donated the funds (reportedly 1,300 pounds, a small fortune in those days) and became a Worker in Irvine's movement. Reports vary as to how he donated his money. Some say it went "to the cause," or to Wm. Irvine or "to the poor. Nate, you really seem confused about Ed Cooney. Have you read ANY of the late Patricia Roberts books about Ed Cooney? She was a "Cooneyite," was his official biographer and lived in Enniskillen, where Cooney was born and raised. Books by Patricia Roberts: 1. The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney, 1867-1960, 1990 (ISBN 0 9510109 4 8) 2. Selected Letters, Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney, 1867-1960, 1991 3. Selected Letters of Fred Wood 1890-1986, 1997 4. The Go Preacher Movement- An Anthology, 2000 Published by William Trimble, Ltd., Enniskillen, N. Ireland Note: Patricia Roberts passed away September 29, 2014
The 2x2 workers workers to sell all before going in the ministry that teaching came from the FAITH mission for their workers.
William Irvine and 2x2 workers copied the FAITH mission teaching that all 2x2 workers, who started in the ministry MUST get rid of their things and start going in Faith... God will provide....
That what Edward Cooney did when he started as a 2x2 worker in 1899. He sold all and gave all his money to the poor/ministry.
All 2x2 workers today must get rid of their money or give it to the overseer to distribute to all workers at convention.
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Post by nathan on Sept 15, 2017 11:09:12 GMT -5
Yep! and I disagree with Cherie's footnotes... for years.... Like her idea of William Irvine the founder of the 2x2 1897 starting date. Cherie can't even get that date correct from the start, and she claims to be a 2x2 historian or researcher.  What a joke.
If you don't believe Cherie's research is correct nathan , stop using information from her website and do your own research ! |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 15, 2017 13:25:40 GMT -5
So you're saying that John Long, Patricia Roberts and the 1905 Workers list ALL have the date Cooney entered the work wrong?
(Pattison doesnt provide a date...he didn't live in Cooney's area, and he gives very few dates in his account.)
So have you or have you not read Patricia Roberts books??
She had tons of letter by and to Cooney from which she compiled her biography, and was in touch with many who knew/met him personally, including herself.
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Post by nathan on Sept 15, 2017 17:23:04 GMT -5
So you're saying that John Long, Patricia Roberts and the 1905 Workers list ALL have the date Cooney entered the work wrong? (Pattison doesnt provide a date...he didn't live in Cooney's area, and he gives very few dates in his account.) So have you or have you not read Patricia Roberts books?? She had tons of letter by and to Cooney from which she compiled her biography, and was in touch with many who knew/met him personally, including herself.
Who put the 1905 workers list together? Was it Evert Blair?
Well, John Long and Lizzy Coles were the best witnesses for when Edward Cooney really started in the work.... So, I don't need to read Patricia Robert books..... |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 15, 2017 19:13:38 GMT -5
Nate: I don't know who compiled the 1905 Workers list. I know that Everitt Blair did not. An American wouldnt begin to have that kinda of info. Most likely someone in Ireland of the the UK did. There have been about 13 different copies of workers in 1905 and all of them have Cooney starting in 1901. These lists are at: sites.google.com/site/2x2history/uk-history/early-workers At the bottom of the page, you can download a comparison chart... How do you reconcile what Lizzy Coles' father told the newspaper reporter about the dates? As a historian, you have to explain it some way - you cant just throw it out and cherry pick what fits your agenda. So what is your explanation? A historian's task is to pursue truth wherever it may lead. History is the study of past events in chronological order. A historian reconstructs the past, working closely with ALL the information that has been left behind on their research subject; e.g. documents, oral testimony, objects, etc., and presents them in a coherent way, tracing back to their origin and studying their changes or evolution. Historians are tour guides and collectors of information. When there are conflicting or numerous accounts of the same event, they should truthfully and honestly present ALL of them for the readers review. The historian should not pick the one that best fits his agenda, and leave the others out, or say they are incorrect because they don't fit with his preference. I think its obvious what kind of historian you are...one who manipulates and massages the facts to serve his own theory. |
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Post by nathan on Sept 15, 2017 21:53:25 GMT -5
Nate: I don't know who compiled the 1905 Workers list. I know that Everitt Blair did not. An American wouldnt begin to have that kinda of info. Most likely someone in Ireland of the the UK did. There have been about 13 different copies of workers in 1905 and all of them have Cooney starting in 1901. These lists are at: sites.google.com/site/2x2history/uk-history/early-workers At the bottom of the page, you can download a comparison chart... How do you reconcile what Lizzy Coles' father told the newspaper reporter about the dates? As a historian, you have to explain it some way - you cant just throw it out and cherry pick what fits your agenda. So what is your explanation? A historian's task is to pursue truth wherever it may lead. History is the study of past events in chronological order. A historian reconstructs the past, working closely with ALL the information that has been left behind on their research subject; e.g. documents, oral testimony, objects, etc., and presents them in a coherent way, tracing back to their origin and studying their changes or evolution. Historians are tour guides and collectors of information. When there are conflicting or numerous accounts of the same event, they should truthfully and honestly present ALL of them for the readers review. The historian should not pick the one that best fits his agenda, and leave the others out, or say they are incorrect because they don't fit with his preference. I think its obvious what kind of historian you are...one who manipulates and massages the facts to serve his own theory.
Edward Cooney stayed in England... and a few years later, he got in touch with Princess Victoria, who had two professing servants.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 15, 2017 22:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Sept 15, 2017 22:18:11 GMT -5
Lizzy Coles Testimony: Her grandson is a worker in California, John V. whom I met in his parents home 1980. John V. and I offered for the work in 1980.
Lizz Testimony:
Now, we come to the turn of the twentieth century...One bleak, wet day, four strangers knocked at John Coles' rectory door, asking permission to use the Mission Hall for a few weeks in order to have some gospel meetings. These workers were George Walker, William Irvine, Willie Weir and Eddie Cooney . Most of them were fresh over from Ireland. He explained that he couldn't pay them any salary, and they stated that Jesus didn't get a salary, and they didn't expect one either. He told them the congregation was poor and not much in the collection plate, so they told him they didn't take up a collection. He said they were welcome to use the hall.
Lizzie offered to play the organ for their nightly services and they accepted. She had never heard such preaching and she was spellbound! Her father, of course, was becoming more and more irritated as their message was slowly being brought home. The difference between his paid ministry and the New Testament Ministry was made so clear. We don't know how long it was before he asked them to leave, but they asked to have one more meeting so they could inform those who were coming, and he granted that wish. They tested that meeting and Lizzie was the only one who saw the difference and had the courage to make her choice. Naturally, her father was furious. His authority over his daughter was irrevocably challenged and his pride was hurt before his whole congregation. In a moment of anger, he ordered her to leave and not ever come back. This date was May 1, 1899; she had turned 21 years of age on April 5 that same year. Where could she flee to? What could she do? She had not been prepared under his roof for any suitable career. She wasn't interested in marriage; she had seen enough struggles in her parent's home with the care of one baby after another and she didn't want that. Heartsick, but knowing her choice was the right one, she fled across London to where Bill and Maggie Carroll were having gospel meetings in an old used store building. They had heard the gospel in Ireland, and were enthusiastically carrying it to England, in spite of the fact that they were already married and had a baby, May, when they heard and accepted the gospel. They received Lizzie, comforted her, and suggested that she stay and help them with the meetings. She did that, helping also with the baby and inviting people in the district to the gospel meetings.They all lived in the upstairs of the building and had meetings downstairs. It was during this time that the baby became very ill. The drafty storeroom and not enough nourishing food aggravated the situation. She watched Bill and Maggie arrive at the terrible decision to part with their little May in order to continue with the work. They took her home to Ireland to be raised by Mrs. Carroll. One can imagine the impression this made on Lizzie Coles! If these sensitive people could put the work of the gospel even before their own little one, how could she withhold her life from this work? It was arranged for her to join Bill's sister, May Carroll to be her companion.
May Carroll had begun in the work when she was eighteen and couldn't have been much older at this time. The two girls preached in the villages of Ireland. They visited the village folk on bicycles. Sometimes they were received but at other times potatoes or clumps of dirt thrown at them pelted them! They attended a convention at Crocknacrieve. This was one of the very of earliest conventions and lasted longer than ours. At this convention, an appeal was made for workers to go to America and Lizzie volunteered.According to an old letter from George Walker, she and two other girls plus five brothers, who were Jack Jackson, Dave Lyness, Jim Jardine, Frank Scott, Willie Weir and Bella Cook and one unnamed Sister sailed for New York in December 1904. In a visit with Jack Jackson years later, Jack told us a little of that voyage, as he was one of the brothers on that ship. They traveled those seasick days in third class compartments and Jack was the only one of the eight who did not get seasick. He would go to the cracker barrel down in the hold and being tall with long arms, could reach over the others, getting handfuls of crackers which he distributed to the others.
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Post by nathan on Sept 17, 2017 7:21:12 GMT -5
1) Cherie K. wrote: The correct story is that John Long started preaching on faith lines totally INDEPENDENTLY in 1899. He was NOT joined "with Wm Irvine and some others." He went alone, by himself, on faith lines.
Sept 16, 2017 nathan said:
**** Think! What you are saying, here Cherie K.... Then why did you post writings where John Long stated he was with William Irvine from 1897-1907 to the date he was excommunicated. John Long did NOT go alone, by himself, on faith lines. Bill Carroll started in the work in 1899....
From John Long Journal:
~~ 10/ 1899: "Bicycle Trip" to Scotland 2x2 workers
After the Convention William Irvine invited me over to his sister's home in Queenzieburn, Kilsytntih. At the same time, he went to meet some young men that came over from Ireland, with the intention of going fully on the Lord’s work. This expedition is known as the "1899 Bicycle Trip to Scotland" led by Irvine of 7 or 8 young men, who later became 2x2 workers...
1) Jack Douglas 2) William (Willie) Gill 3) George Walker 4) John Hardie 5) William Irvine 6) William (Bill) Carroll 7) Irvine Weir 8) Warren Hastings.
While I waited his return, I went into Kilsyth; and helped at a mission in the West Port Hall held by sister Cameron, an auxiliary of the Faith Mission.
~~ 11/ 1899: About that time Irvine returned when I had started the mission in Condarrat (Scotland), and he left me a partner named Irvine Weir. The mission was a splendid success, upwards of thirty persons decided for Christ. After that mission I was asked into Kilsyth to take a service in the Methodist Church on trial, with the intention, if they liked me, to have a mission, however, some of their elders rejected having me; and a fire broke out that night in the vestry room and quenched itself. From that time I ceased to be a member of the Methodist church.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 17, 2017 10:01:34 GMT -5
Your argument turns on what John Long meant when he wrote he was "with Irvine." Did it mean they were on the same page in their ideas/beliefs/theories, was he in in submission to WmI, was he taking direction from WmI, was he in a pool of others with WmI, etc.? You don't know. You have made an assumption about Long and Irvine's relationship, have run with it and leaped to unbased, unsupported conclusions to support your agenda. Sad that you have not weighed all the facts, nor even studied all of the sources, and that the incorrect dates in the Lizzie Coles Account have messed up your entire timeline...when shown the holes or inconsistencies in your timeline, you ignore them, rather than aligning your timeline with the facts. Without reading the book packed with the most details about Cooney by his Cooneyite biographer Patricia Roberts (her first/main book), you are an inept, "pick and choose" willingly blind, amateur 2x2 historian. Here's how you can find a copy of her book in a library near you. Go to Worldcat and type in: Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney It will show you books in libraries near you. I just did it, and this book is in 10 libraries in or near my city. You can ask your nearby library to order it for you to arrive at your library for pickup by you thru interlibrary loan. WORLDCAT LINK: www.worldcat.org/title/life-and-ministry-of-edward-cooney/oclc/24748879&referer=brief_resultsCopies of her supporting documents are in her other 3 books (copies of letters to/from him). |
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Post by nathan on Sept 17, 2017 11:24:41 GMT -5
Your argument turns on what John Long meant when he wrote he was "with Irvine." Did it mean they were on the same page in their ideas/beliefs/theories, was he in in submission to WmI, was he taking direction from WmI, was he in a pool of others with WmI, etc.? You don't know. You have made an assumption about Long and Irvine's relationship, have run with it and leaped to unbased, unsupported conclusions to support your agenda. Sad that you have not weighed all the facts, nor even studied all of the sources, and that the incorrect dates in the Lizzie Coles Account have messed up your entire timeline...when shown the holes or inconsistencies in your timeline, you ignore them, rather than aligning your timeline with the facts. Without reading the book packed with the most details about Cooney by his Cooneyite biographer Patricia Roberts (her first/main book), you are an inept, "pick and choose" willingly blind, amateur 2x2 historian. Here's how you can find a copy of her book in a library near you. Go to Worldcat and type in: Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney It will show you books in libraries near you. I just did it, and this book is in 10 libraries in or near my city. You can ask your nearby library to order it for you to arrive at your library for pickup by you thru interlibrary loan. WORLDCAT LINK: www.worldcat.org/title/life-and-ministry-of-edward-cooney/oclc/24748879&referer=brief_resultsCopies of her supporting documents are in her other 3 books (copies of letters to/from him). According to John Long Journal: John Long was under William Irvine leadership and management, he was told which companion for him to be with to train them. In 1907 It was William Irvine who excommunicated John Long from the 2x2 workers ministry and fellowship. And it seemed Bill/William Carroll starting date in the work was 1899 during the NOT in 1900s either. John Long Journal: After the Convention William Irvine invited me over to his sister's home in Queenzieburn, Kilsyth. At the same time, he went to meet some young men that came over from Ireland, with the intention of going fully on the Lord’s work. This expedition is known as the "1899 Bicycle Trip to Scotland" led by Irvine of 7 or 8 young men, who later became 2x2 workers... ~~ 10/ 1899: "Bicy1) Jack Douglas 2) William (Willie) Gill 3) George Walker 4) John Hardie 5) William Irvine 6) William (Bill) Carroll 7) Irvine Weir 8) Warren Hastings. ~~ So, your Edward Cooney starting date in the work 1901 is INCORRECT! According to Lizzy Cole, she professed through William Irvine, Edward Cooney, George Walker, in 5/1899.
According to John Long Journal: 7/ 1900: Edward Cooney preaching with William Irvine I returned again to Rathmolyon to a Convention; the first general one held in connection with the work in the South of Ireland. About forty Christian workers met together to consider the word of the Lord. At that conference, met G. C. Grubb, Robert Miller, Robert Todd, William Irvine, Edward Cooney and others. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 17, 2017 13:29:21 GMT -5
Slopping reporting, Nate. You added MY EDITORS bracketed comment as though it were a part of JL's words in his journal, and you also added YOUR incorrect comment "who later became 2x2 workers." (only 5 of them plus Irvine went in the work)
On TTT, John Long's Journal reads:
OCTOBER, 1899: After the Convention William Irvine invited me over to his sister's home in Queenzieburn, Kilsyth. At the same time, he went to meet some young men that came over from Ireland, with the intention of going fully on the Lord’s work. [Editor's Note: This expedition is known as the "1899 Bicycle Trip to Scotland" led by Irvine of 7 or 8 young men. View Photo]
So, Nate, by this logic, you must also use the 1899 trial expedition/experiment trip to Scotland and claim that Willie Gill, John Hardie and Irvine Weir's dates for entering the work in 1900 are also incorrect?
***This account was written by Lizzie's two daughters, not Lizzie herself in person.
Nate wrote: According to John Long Journal: 7/ 1900: Edward Cooney preaching with William Irvine: "I returned again to Rathmolyon to a Convention; the first general one held in connection with the work in the South of Ireland. About forty Christian workers met together to consider the word of the Lord. At that conference, met G. C. Grubb, Robert Miller, Robert Todd, William Irvine, Edward Cooney and others.
So Nate, you leaped to assume that by Cooney attending this convention, that meant he was a preacher connected with WmI. All you know by that list is that they all met together; POSSIBLY all of them preached, but we don't know that for sure. Cooney was already preaching long before he met WmI. From the list:
Robert Miller was the Congregational minister in Galway (John Long, Aug, 1899).
Robert Todd left Faith Mission in Fall of 1897 and began his own independent mission in Ireland and never preached with WmI.
George Grubb was a Keswick missionary for some time, was also a popular guest speaker at various other conventions and missions. Irvine invited him, evangelist John Chalmers and John Ramsay to be guest speakers at some of the Go-Preacher meetings. According to Patricia Roberts, Ed Cooney was converted under the preaching of George Grubb. John Long was baptized by immersion in May 1900 by C. G. C. Grubb. He was never a 2x2 Worker "with Wm Irvine."
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Post by nathan on Sept 17, 2017 15:33:55 GMT -5
Yes, I know... Cherie... It was Lizzy Coles who told the daughters about her testimony and one of them or both help her to write it down on paper to so their children can KNOW what really happened those years in England when she professed.... The readers can tell someone had recorded the writings as she told them her testimony! I met one of the daughters in California 1980. She was John V. mother.
My point was Edward Cooney and Bill Carroll preached long time before your 1901 date on your TTT website.
My point was John Long did NOT preach by himself ! in 1899 either.... John Long worked with William Irvine and the 2x2 workers very closely from 1899 to the time they excommunicated him in 1907.
Things were moving fast in 1899..... men and women given their lives to go into the 2x2 gospel work without needing permission from Faith Mission, founder John Govan.
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Post by Greg on Sept 18, 2017 0:20:21 GMT -5
Yes, I know... Cherie... It was Lizzy Coles who told the daughters about her testimony and one of them or both help her to write it down on paper to so their children can KNOW what really happened those years in England when she professed.... The readers can tell someone had recorded the writings as she told them her testimony! I met one of the daughters in California 1980. She was John V. mother.
My point was Edward Cooney and Bill Carroll preached long time before your 1901 date on your TTT website.
My point was John Long did NOT preach by himself ! in 1899 either.... John Long worked with William Irvine and the 2x2 workers very closely from 1899 to the time they excommunicated him in 1907.
Things were moving fast in 1899..... men and women given their lives to go into the 2x2 gospel work without needing permission from Faith Mission, founder John Govan.
John Long preached before going in faith lines. John Long did preach without companion for at least ten months. John Long was still a Methodist when he started faith lines. John Long was not baptized until about a year and a half after he started faith lines. Even n 1901, Edward Cooley was still funding conferences. Nathan, you call some people slow learners. The case is you are a poor historian and teacher. |
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Post by nathan on Sept 18, 2017 0:26:51 GMT -5
Yes, I know... Cherie... It was Lizzy Coles who told the daughters about her testimony and one of them or both help her to write it down on paper to so their children can KNOW what really happened those years in England when she professed.... The readers can tell someone had recorded the writings as she told them her testimony! I met one of the daughters in California 1980. She was John V. mother.
My point was Edward Cooney and Bill Carroll preached long time before your 1901 date on your TTT website.
My point was John Long did NOT preach by himself ! in 1899 either.... John Long worked with William Irvine and the 2x2 workers very closely from 1899 to the time they excommunicated him in 1907.
Things were moving fast in 1899..... men and women given their lives to go into the 2x2 gospel work without needing permission from Faith Mission, founder John Govan.
John Long preached before going in faith lines. John Long did preach without companion for at least ten months. John Long was still a Methodist when he started faith lines. John Long was not baptized until about a year and a half after he started faith lines. Even n 1901, Edward Cooley was still funding conferences. Nathan, you call some people slow learners. The case is you are a poor historian and teacher.
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Post by Greg on Sept 18, 2017 15:02:15 GMT -5
John Long preached before going in faith lines. John Long did preach without companion for at least ten months. John Long was still a Methodist when he started faith lines. John Long was not baptized until about a year and a half after he started faith lines. Even n 1901, Edward Cooley was still funding conferences. Nathan, you call some people slow learners. The case is you are a poor historian and teacher.
Your initial reply was "From reading your post above it seems you have READ and STUDY John Long Journal VERY carefully, Greg." |
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Post by Greg on Sept 18, 2017 15:05:33 GMT -5
Nathan wrote: "My point was Edward Cooney and Bill Carroll preached long time before your 1901 date on your TTT website."
Just because they preached before 1901 does not mean they were workers before 1901.
Good thing your ignorance and inability to understand is harmless.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 18, 2017 22:34:35 GMT -5
Right.
He apparently was continuing to take money from the Faith Mission while he was gathering his own group of believers around him.
According to John Long Journal: Edward Cooney met William Irvine in 1/1898.In the little town of Borrisokane there is a small Methodist Church, where met a little assembly of Godly believers, who loved to see souls saved; and prayed earnestly for a Revival. My former superintendent, S.W.H. Nesbitt, who left Roscrea, and was stationed at that time in Borrisokane. A Christian commercial traveler, named Edward Cooney, during his business tours, met some of the young converts and being impressed with the genuineness of their testimony was resolved to meet and have an interview with William Irvine. That meeting was a loving one and meant much for the Kingdom of God. How careful we should be regarding first impressions; as they have real and lasting effects the memory of which is not easily erased. A good deal of opposition arose at that time because William Irvine spoke with great authority against the unfaithfulness of the clergy; many threw on the brake, but he refused to be corrected by them believing that God had raised him up to thresh the mountains. The strain of continuous ministry; also the care and charge of young converts affected much the physical health of William Irvine; he was known to preach for five hours, all the while holding the attention of his audience. Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus.
Matthew chapter 10 study: William Irvine (Faith Mission) met Edward Cooney, who later became one of prominent members of the 2x2 workers church. Conversion of John Long going Faith Lines. ~~ 4/ 1898: At that time William Irvine (Faith Mission worker), Fred Hughes (Faith Mission preacher worker) and I (John Long/Methodist) went to Kilkee, where we had a mission in the Methodist Church; also we had the fellowship of W.B. Merrick, my superintendent in the colportage work. ~~ 7/ 1898: While in Kilkee we had a Bible reading on Matthew 10. It was that Bible reading set me first thinking about going on Faith Lines. It was a very remarkable coincident that Edward Cooney turned up next day, for he very soon after gave up a very good situation, and distributed thirteen hundred pounds to the poor, and went fully on the Lord's work, and became a great advocate of preachers going without a stated salary.
If you are tyring to say that it was Edward Cooney who gave Irvine the money, -how would that be when Cooney didn't yet even know Irving at that time? |
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Post by nathan on Sept 18, 2017 23:06:50 GMT -5
~~~ No, William Irvine did not need to take any money from the Faith Mission at all because it wasn't very MUCH money, that the pilgrim workers receive for each month... We read Edward Cooney gave a lot of money to the work/ministry, when he and all of the 2x2 workers started in the work in 1899.... So they were able to survive and travel aboard to America, and other countries to preach the gospel.According to John Long Journal: Edward Cooney met William Irvine in 1/1898.In the little town of Borrisokane there is a small Methodist Church, where met a little assembly of Godly believers, who loved to see souls saved; and prayed earnestly for a Revival. My former superintendent, S.W.H. Nesbitt, who left Roscrea, and was stationed at that time in Borrisokane. A Christian commercial traveler, named Edward Cooney, during his business tours, met some of the young converts and being impressed with the genuineness of their testimony was resolved to meet and have an interview with William Irvine. That meeting was a loving one and meant much for the Kingdom of God. How careful we should be regarding first impressions; as they have real and lasting effects the memory of which is not easily erased. A good deal of opposition arose at that time because William Irvine spoke with great authority against the unfaithfulness of the clergy; many threw on the brake, but he refused to be corrected by them believing that God had raised him up to thresh the mountains. The strain of continuous ministry; also the care and charge of young converts affected much the physical health of William Irvine; he was known to preach for five hours, all the while holding the attention of his audience. Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus.
Matthew chapter 10 study: William Irvine (Faith Mission) met Edward Cooney, who later became one of prominent members of the 2x2 workers church. Conversion of John Long going Faith Lines. ~~ 4/ 1898: At that time William Irvine (Faith Mission worker), Fred Hughes (Faith Mission preacher worker) and I (John Long/Methodist) went to Kilkee, where we had a mission in the Methodist Church; also we had the fellowship of W.B. Merrick, my superintendent in the colportage work. ~~ 7/ 1898: While in Kilkee we had a Bible reading on Matthew 10. It was that Bible reading set me first thinking about going on Faith Lines. It was a very remarkable coincident that Edward Cooney turned up next day, for he very soon after gave up a very good situation, and distributed thirteen hundred pounds to the poor, and went fully on the Lord's work, and became a great advocate of preachers going without a stated salary.
If you are tyring to say that it was Edward Cooney who gave Irvine the money, -how would that be when Cooney didn't yet even know Irving at that time? |
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Post by Greg on Sept 19, 2017 4:31:31 GMT -5
Nathan wrote: "My point was Edward Cooney and Bill Carroll preached long time before your 1901 date on your TTT website." Just because they preached before 1901 does not mean they were workers before 1901. Good thing your ignorance and inability to understand is harmless.
If they were not 2x2 workers then why? Cherie K. Said William Irvine started the 2x2 in 1897?
People preached on their own behalf, for their church, for Faith Mission, and for William Irvine in the guise of Faith Mission. I think your concern about the 1897 start date has been covered many times. "Ignorance is bliss". You must be on cloud nine.  |
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Post by Gene on Sept 19, 2017 4:33:25 GMT -5
Well, if William Irvine did not need money just because the pilgrim workers didn't receive very much each month, it must have been enough to survive!
If you are tyring to say that it was Edward Cooney who gave Irvine the money, -how would that be when Cooney didn't yet even know Irving at that time? 1,300 pounds in 1899 is something like the purchasing power of 134,000 pounds (180,000 USD) in 2017. |
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Post by Greg on Sept 19, 2017 5:28:23 GMT -5
Well, if William Irvine did not need money just because the pilgrim workers didn't receive very much each month, it must have been enough to survive!
If you are tyring to say that it was Edward Cooney who gave Irvine the money, -how would that be when Cooney didn't yet even know Irving at that time? How do you know the money was given to Irvine and the work? How could William Irvine be the leader of the 2x2 workers in 1898 while he was still with the Faith Mission? There is no proof that Edward Cooney became a 2x2 worker in 1899. |
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Post by nathan on Sept 19, 2017 7:38:46 GMT -5
Edward Cooney met and had an interviewed with William Irvine in 1898.... and Edward went in the work 2x2 work 1899.... 1300 pounds were a lot of money and it was given to the work/William Irvine was the leader to share among the 2x2 workers to travel aboard. How do you know the money was given to Irvine and the work? How could William Irvine be the leader of the 2x2 workers in 1898 while he was still with the Faith Mission? There is no proof that Edward Cooney became a 2x2 worker in 1899.
William Irvine got that Go by Faith from the Faith Mission workers/pilgrim teachings or belief....
William Irivne was disciplined by the Faith Mission in 1898... but he kept doing the same kind of 2x2 apostolic ministry with men and women, who were his converts, who decided NOT to join the Faith Mission group.
I showed proof on here, go back and read it, it was Lizzy Cole testimony who professed through William Irvine, Edward Cooney, George Walker and Mr. Weir. in England 5/1899.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 19, 2017 8:01:38 GMT -5
If Irvine had Cooney's money, why did the Friends do this? After the meeting, a sister worker about my age told me her parents were some who sold their heirlooms and furniture and got by with cheaper things in the home so they could help in the Kingdom. They gave their lives. The brethren in England, Ireland and Scotland knew they had to have their needs met, and the fares to go to their respective fields. Some of those people had real nice homes; they sold their nice fancy furniture, some of their heirlooms which had been handed down and were valuable, and gave this to the Kingdom for the work of God to progress. With their whole heart, they made an investment - both the workers and the friends. Now when I look into different countries and see God's people and this great fellowship, how it has prospered, I realize it is because of self-denial and sacrifice, on the part of God's servant and on the part of God's people. Eldon Tenniswood: When Archie Turner was with us in San Francisco in 1960 on his way to the Orient, I told him he was the 13th worker to leave for the Orient that year. It was then he told us that in 1905 there were 52 young men and women who left Great Britain, going to South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and USA. Those servants invested their lives in God's kingdom, and that is why we are enjoying the truth. Archie said some of the people who were serving the Lord had very nice homes. They sold their nice furniture, heirlooms, etc. and gave the money to help the 52 young men and women to go to the different parts of the world. That's how the gospel came to us. When I was in Italy, I happened to mention this at a convention. Florrie List, one of the workers who is hardly able for the work now, told me when she got through school and was working, she wanted to buy some nice furniture for their home, as they had a fine home, but just had second-hand furniture. Her mother said, "Florrie, we used to have that kind of furniture, but when the workers were going to other lands, we sold it so we could help them go. We don't want that kind of furniture now, we just want to help in this great kingdom of God." How could those people have invested their lives and money better? (Eldon Tenniswood Young Peoples Mtg 1982) www.trutharchive.net/Eldon-Tenniswood---Young-Peoples-Meetings---California---1982 |
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Post by nathan on Sept 19, 2017 10:19:00 GMT -5
Edward's 1300 pounds were not enough money for all of their travels at home, aboard and living expensives.
We read in the gospels the apostles left their occupations, homes, families and went forth to preach with Jesus, who had no where to lay his head.
We read the women and men followers or disciples provided their natural needs.
We read in Acts chapters 4 and 5 home the disciples sold their property, land and gave the apostles all the money for furtherance of the gospel.
The 2x2 friends in U.K. did the same thing, they sold things so the workers could bring the gospel to many countries around the world.
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Post by Grant on Sept 19, 2017 11:02:23 GMT -5
Seems like Irvine was onto a good thing. Get everyone to give him their money so he could live free. No wonder he wasn't willing for the Faith Mission but to think he was still getting their money while taking everyone elses.
I hope you don't re-write history Nathan and make it a fact that Cooney gave his money to Irvine. One thing about Cherie as a reliable historian is that she just writes the facts. You however, add your own spin to things. Reminds me of meeting days when a Bible verses would-be interpreted and reinterpreted to fit into the workers belief.
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Post by Grant on Sept 19, 2017 14:15:10 GMT -5
Cherie K is giving the facts. You are just adding your spin to them.
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What a joke.
