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Post by Everyman on Jun 21, 2006 22:34:15 GMT -5
Back to the topic...the "perfect church" doesn't exist. Exes are not seeking one, contrary to 2x2 belief. Better listen up - we all know Ilylo speaks for all Exes. What a pompous ass.
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Post by Come on Ilylo on Jun 21, 2006 22:37:23 GMT -5
I never suggested that I speak for all. Those are your words. You said "Exes are not seeking one, contrary to 2x2 belief." From that phrase, just which Exes would ve excluded? But you are correct. You never did suggest you spoke for all Exes. You just did it.
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Post by Really on Jun 21, 2006 22:41:20 GMT -5
I'll stick to the topic and see if you can comprehend it: Exes are not seeking a "perfect church." Several on this message board have expressed this desire. Stick to speaking for yourself.
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Post by Here you go on Jun 21, 2006 22:51:20 GMT -5
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. (Eph. 5:25-27) This is a profound mystery— but I am talking about Christ and the church. (Eph. 5:32) Sounds like Christ (at least according to Paul) was looking for a perfect church. Creating one in fact.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 21, 2006 23:13:29 GMT -5
Again, a topic is compromised by the fallacy of equating 2x2ism with Christ's universal church.
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Post by Not Quite on Jun 21, 2006 23:16:21 GMT -5
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. (Eph. 5:25-27) This is a profound mystery— but I am talking about Christ and the church. (Eph. 5:32) Sounds like Christ (at least according to Paul) was looking for a perfect church. Creating one in fact. Commentary from bible GatewayThe duties of wives and husbands are enforced by the spiritual relation between Christ and the church.
The duty of wives is, submission to their husbands in the Lord, which includes honouring and obeying them, from a principle of love to them. The duty of husbands is to love their wives. The love of Christ to the church is an example, which is sincere, pure, and constant, notwithstanding her failures. Christ gave himself for the church, that he might sanctify it in this world, and glorify it in the next, that he might bestow on all his members a principle of holiness, and deliver them
from the guilt, the pollution, and the dominion of sin, by those influences of the Holy Spirit, of which baptismal water was the outward sign. The church and believers will not be without spot or wrinkle till they come to glory. But those only who are sanctified now, shall be glorified hereafter. The words of Adam, mentioned by the apostle, are spoken literally of marriage; but they have also a hidden sense in them, relating to the union between Christ and his church. It was a kind of type, as
having resemblance. There will be failures and defects on both sides, in the present state of human nature, yet this does not alter the relation. All the duties of marriage are included in unity and love. And while we adore and rejoice in the condescending love of Christ, let husbands and wives learn hence their duties to each other. Thus the worst evils would be prevented, and many painful effects would be avoided.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2006 4:09:56 GMT -5
Every worker and friend could be the freshest apple in the barrel, and 2x2ism, by itself, would still not be "God's true church." why not?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 22, 2006 6:55:50 GMT -5
RE: God's Way is perfect but God's People (those who belong to the 2x2 church) are often far from perfect. It should not be assumend that just because some of the professing people...or even some of the workers, (who are rotten apples), means that the 2x2 system is not God's true church.
That's good advice not to assume things about the individual are true of the group of individuals. However, regarding the 2x2 system itself, IMO, our God of such wisdom and infinite abilities would have created a more perfect church than the 2x2 system that Wm Irvine set up. It has many flaws, not the least of which is there is no single head or a consistent method of government. Too many heads at the top--with no way to control them. Many small kingdoms, with no single head over them creates inconsistencies from area to area (which they claim do not exist). It's a dictatorship with no recourse for the members/friends.
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Post by Hope For All on Jun 22, 2006 11:29:57 GMT -5
RE: God's Way is perfect but God's People (those who belong to the 2x2 church) are often far from perfect. It should not be assumend that just because some of the professing people...or even some of the workers, (who are rotten apples), means that the 2x2 system is not God's true church. That's good advice not to assume things about the individual are true of the group of individuals. However, regarding the 2x2 system itself, IMO, our God of such wisdom and infinite abilities would have created a more perfect church than the 2x2 system that Wm Irvine set up. It has many flaws, not the least of which is there is no single head or a consistent method of government. Too many heads at the top--with no way to control them. Many small kingdoms, with no single head over them creates inconsistencies from area to area (which they claim do not exist). It's a dictatorship with no recourse for the members/friends. Hi Cherie, How much have you read of the history of the early church from the writings of the early Church Fathers- men like Ignatious, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Turtulian, Eusebious etc.? What I have found very interesting is that what you discribe as "flaws" in the F&W church- were exactly what you will find in the earliest church. Your following statement describes exactly the early church: i.e. "Too many heads at the top--with no way to control them. Many small kingdoms, with no single head over them creates inconsistencies from area to area (which they claim do not exist). It's a dictatorship with no recourse for the members/friends." You will discover that it was these so called flaws- that eventually led to the split between the Eastern church (Greek Orthodox) and the Western Church (RCC). Taking your logic to it's final conclusion- it would seem that you are saying that these churches are also flawed- and therefore cannot be "of God". Comments?? (BTW) I am not suggesting that the F&W are the only right way- but I am saying that your logic does not hold up in discounting that the F&W " are of God" or that God was involved in their beginnings either. Love, HFA
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ian
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Post by ian on Jun 22, 2006 12:13:17 GMT -5
I agree. Theryre all as bad as each other in this respect.
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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 16:44:40 GMT -5
[quote author=cheriekropp board=general thread=1150418697
there is no single head or a consistent method of government. Too many heads at the top--with no way to control them. Many small kingdoms, with no single head over them creates inconsistencies. It's a dictatorship with no recourse for the members/friends. [/quote]
and no recouse for erroring workers either!!
hmmm, no one is in charge, it is really a dictatorship without a human dictator. Well, some people may suggest that someone is really in control, but it remains such a difficult job to know who to write to or when the job is open up for a new dictator, has anyone ever heard what the deal is anyways.
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Post by NE5V8 on Jun 23, 2006 14:26:56 GMT -5
[quote author=cheriekropp board=general thread=1150418697 there is no single head or a consistent method of government. Too many heads at the top--with no way to control them. Many small kingdoms, with no single head over them creates inconsistencies. It's a dictatorship with no recourse for the members/friends. no recouse for erroring workers either!! hmmm, no one is in charge, it is really a dictatorship without a human dictator. Well, some people may suggest that someone is really in control, but it remains such a difficult job to know who to write to or when the job is open up for a new dictator, has anyone ever heard what the deal is anyways.[/quote] Who's in charge of things around here? Will the real dictator please stand up, so we can see him.
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Post by Ilylo again on Jun 23, 2006 14:37:22 GMT -5
Again, a topic is compromised by the fallacy of equating 2x2ism with Christ's universal church. No one was equating the 2x2 church to any church. You requested a verse in response to the following post: "Pity because that is the one Jesus is seeking to have." (referring to Jesus' search for the perfect church). The verse(s) were provided and now you are citing some unknown fallacy of equating the 2x2 church with the perfect church that Jesus was seeking. You have a difficult time when anyone calls you on your errors.
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Post by Ililo again on Jun 23, 2006 14:46:21 GMT -5
Again, a topic is compromised by the fallacy of equating 2x2ism with Christ's universal church. No one was equating the 2x2 church to any church. You requested a verse in response to the following post: "Pity because that is the one Jesus is seeking to have." (referring to Jesus' search for the perfect church). The verse(s) were provided and now you are citing some unknown fallacy of equating the 2x2 church with the perfect church that Jesus was seeking. You have a difficult time when anyone calls you on your errors. OK, I admit, I don't enjoy being called on my errors either. But that is moot, as I do certainly do not live by the expectations, that I dictate others to live by. My life is difficult enough already, please don't remind me of my unwillingness to live as I think YOU should. I am just trying to help you to do the .
You get my drift? Or are you some doorknob.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 23, 2006 14:50:30 GMT -5
The verses cited referred to Christ's universal church. The topic had been on local visible churches, specifically 2x2ism. The verses did not address the topic. Thus somebody equated the topic church (2x2ism) with the verses in the citation (the universal church).
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