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Post by Gene on Jul 23, 2015 19:36:32 GMT -5
DMG, I would just like to know his motive that's all! I don't want my faith based on what someone else says about somebody else nor to I want that sort of faith fr another so I'm leaving it at that, knowing full well honest, seeking souls will be given their answers in Gods time. I was nor trying to do Doug an injustice at any time, just merely questioning his motive and timing. Emy, Who knows what next? You know '...the way of a man is right in his own eyes....', there will always be problems of some sort. Roselyn I really feel for you, the feeling of deception must be awful, I am one of the lucky ones! I haven't read the entire thread yet, so shame on me if I'm addressing a point someone already addressed, but after reading this question about Doug's motive several times, I can't stop myself: Of COURSE he had a motive. His motive is as clear as the nose on my face! He felt lied to about the origins of the church, and wanted to expose what he felt was the lie. Is that not apparent? |
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Post by howitis on Jul 23, 2015 19:43:44 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 23, 2015 19:47:43 GMT -5
DMG, I would just like to know his motive that's all! I don't want my faith based on what someone else says about somebody else nor to I want that sort of faith fr another so I'm leaving it at that, knowing full well honest, seeking souls will be given their answers in Gods time. I was nor trying to do Doug an injustice at any time, just merely questioning his motive and timing. I haven't read the entire thread yet, so shame on me if I'm addressing a point someone already addressed, but after reading this question about Doug's motive several times, I can't stop myself: Of COURSE he had a motive.His motive is as clear as the nose on my face!He felt lied to about the origins of the church, and wanted to expose what he felt was the lie.Is that not apparent?
I suppose those people who don't want to accept what Parker found when he researched the beginnings are the same people now trying to make up alternative motives for for him. |
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Post by Gene on Jul 23, 2015 19:49:35 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine! Great point. Watch for my new book: "Santa Claus: A Jolly Fraud Exposed". |
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Post by Mary on Jul 23, 2015 19:53:56 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine! So lying about the history of this church is equated with someone lying to their children about Santa Claus? All in the name of fun and games. At least you are admitting they lied. But there is a difference you know - or perhaps you don't. Yes we lie to children about santa clause. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 23, 2015 20:07:52 GMT -5
Sharon what emy quoted, and what I quoted is not from The Secret Sect, it is from Doug's 1954 "A Spiritual Fraud Exposed". Since the fellowship didn't dissolve after what he wrote in 1954 he had another go at it with Secret Sect Some of what Doug wrote is true, no doubt about that. But that doesn't make what isn't true true. Why does Doug choose to pollute what is true with highly subjective and perfidious opinions like those I've quoted? Why do activist exes consistently do that? P.S. Quoting the messenger's own words is NOT attacking the messenger!
What statements of fact in the Secret Sect are not true?
As to opinions, Hasn't he every right to publish opinions as well as anyone of us?
What particular "subjective and perfidious opinions" do you find polluting?
Perfidious? as in traitorous ?
Sounds like he was the one (as was the rest of us) who was the victims of traitors. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 23, 2015 20:12:54 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine!
My own parents would not teach us that Santa Claus for the very reason that you say, because they considered it to be a lie & they wanted to be honest with us.
We had a tree & got presents but we knew where all it came from, our parents |
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Post by howitis on Jul 23, 2015 20:13:10 GMT -5
Did I say once the church lied about its history?
I said many lie about Christmas and Santa Claus and feel its ok!
A lie is a lie, truth is truth religion is religion judgement is judgement and in Gods eyes sin is sin..........oh no we're all doomed because we've looked not on Jesus, but Doug Parker, Irvine and all the others, because in the end faith is faith, which comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God!!
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 23, 2015 20:43:54 GMT -5
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Post by xna on Jul 23, 2015 20:57:10 GMT -5
2-Timothy-3-15 is a problem for the Living witness doctrine. "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." More here www.thelyingtruth.info/vot/livwitdo.php |
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Post by snow on Jul 23, 2015 21:08:41 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine! Great point. Watch for my new book: "Santa Claus: A Jolly Fraud Exposed". Does this mean I'm going to hell if I don't believe in Santa Claus!!  |
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Post by xna on Jul 23, 2015 21:34:48 GMT -5
Great point. Watch for my new book: "Santa Claus: A Jolly Fraud Exposed". Does this mean I'm going to hell if I don't believe in Santa Claus!! This preacher explains hell & religion better than any preacher I have ever heard. youtu.be/LkaH3hEmV3M |
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Post by Mary on Jul 23, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -5
The sin is lying to our children about santa claus. If you confess your sins of lying about santa claus to a worker it is likely you won't go to hell. A priest will not help, it must be a worker.
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Post by howitis on Jul 23, 2015 21:52:53 GMT -5
Snow,
Could do, its all up to you.
DMG
Great stuff, pleased that is/was your experience many children are not so lucky
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Post by fred on Jul 23, 2015 22:00:04 GMT -5
Snow, Could do, its all up to you. DMG Great stuff, pleased that is/was your experience many children are not so lucky Oh my, I hadn't realised. Just think, the millions of children traumatised at finding Santa Claus was their parents.  |
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Post by howitis on Jul 23, 2015 22:07:14 GMT -5
Work with children as long as I have and you'll find it far more common than you think!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 24, 2015 1:20:29 GMT -5
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Post by fred on Jul 24, 2015 1:53:32 GMT -5
Work with children as long as I have and you'll find it far more common than you think! Quantify that howitis and we'll have a little competition.  |
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Post by xna on Jul 24, 2015 6:22:26 GMT -5
2-Timothy-3-15 is a problem for the Living witness doctrine. "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." More here www.thelyingtruth.info/vot/livwitdo.php
Paul encouraged Timothy to share/teach of his faith to honest men.... II Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.I see the 2 Timothy 3:15 verse where it's the "holy scriptures" that is leading you to "Christ Jesus" & it's "Christ Jesus" which enables salvation, and NOT a way of salvation which is based on: who's your ancestors, or who did you you bump into, or who you know. It's true that Timothy had prior connections, but that's not the same as: if but for his prior connections, he would not have been saved. The LWD is unique, and is but one of the ideas that make the 2x2 a separate denomination. For example; some center on verses like foot washing, to make their differentiator, and by these acts they make a separate denomination. |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 24, 2015 8:22:09 GMT -5
From memory (I stand to be corrected) Magowan was expressing sharp disapproval of Parker's method (his wording and vitriol) rather than the content. Do I recall that he too had bad experiences? Magowan went after content too. For instance a few here have mentioned Doug's accusation that the workers dividing families; dmmichgood and shipwreckedsailor were commenting about that. Politics and religion has separated families, that isn't something unique and specific to our fellowship. I know of people who were practically disowned for marrying outside their parent's faith. Anyway Mogowan's response was this: Alfred addressed a LOT of content in his rebuttal. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 24, 2015 9:24:08 GMT -5
Thanks Jesse and others Some of the children of Israel, 'went back', followed after strange gods, obviously left their faith, some disciples 'went away' from Jesus, both saint and servants 'left the faith' in Pauls day, my grandparents, father and husband all left the faith that they were brought up in, did any write a book wth such venom as the Secret Sect, no, most didn't write anything at all, they went on their way, convinced within themselves that they had peace. Doug had a motive and only he knew what that was,, if it wasn't about money I find him just a tad preoccupied with it. People 'murmured' in Moses and Jesus day and still they 'murmur', this is a good thing, it shows the Spirit of God is alive and well after all Satan does not persecute those that are already following him does he?? howitis: Would you please quote some passages in the Secret Sect where Doug uses "such venom." |
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Post by xna on Jul 24, 2015 10:17:38 GMT -5
I see the 2 Timothy 3:15 verse where it's the "holy scriptures" that is leading you to "Christ Jesus" & it's "Christ Jesus" which enables salvation, and NOT a way of salvation which is based on: who's your ancestors, or who did you you bump into, or who you know. It's true that Timothy had prior connections, but that's not the same as: if but for his prior connections, he would not have been saved. The LWD is unique, and is but one of the ideas that make the 2x2 a separate denomination. For example; some center on verses like foot washing, to make their differentiator, and by these acts they make a separate denomination.
The rub is not any preacher will do, only "our guys" can get you to heaven, else you could go to Billy Graham's meetings, make your choice, then take part in the F&W meetings. Pick any other sect, and their baptism is never valid, you must be rebaptized. It's not about just the scriptures, it's the scriptures plus our 2x2 preachers. I have no problem with this scheme, only when it is misrepresented, and they don't own their exclusivism. To be more honest they should say; gods way plus only our way is the only one true way. |
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2015 11:01:06 GMT -5
Does this mean I'm going to hell if I don't believe in Santa Claus!! This preacher explains hell & religion better than any preacher I have ever heard. youtu.be/LkaH3hEmV3MOh Yeah!!! |
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Post by Mary on Jul 24, 2015 13:45:07 GMT -5
The workers church is one of the 40,000 denominations you mention Nathan. Another one in the 'pick' of denominations. In fact even more recent than some who can be traced back as being closer to Jesus day than your newer formed church.
It also always intreeds me how you say you were a RCC, Pentecostal and having come from these different churches when you professed at the age of 17 if I remember correctly. Hardly old enough to have belonged to the amount of churches in any meaningful way by that age.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 24, 2015 13:51:11 GMT -5
So Santa Claus is a 'lie' and Christmas as well, yet many, many people celebrate and continue 'lying' to their children, year in year out, generation to generation, it has been turned into a multi million dollar business and I get the feeling with most of you good people that is perfectly fine! Yeah, so Santa Claus and Christmas is a "lie". Yet, on another level, it is not: Yes Virginia, There is a Santa ClausIt's your choice (as with SO many things in life) how you choose to look at it. I know which one I choose. |
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Post by xna on Jul 24, 2015 13:52:48 GMT -5
The rub is not any preacher will do, only "our guys" can get you to heaven, else you could go to Billy Graham's meetings, make your choice, then take part in the F&W meetings. Pick any other sect, and their baptism is never valid, you must be rebaptized. It's not about just the scriptures, it's the scriptures plus our 2x2 preachers. I have no problem with this scheme, only when it is misrepresented, and they don't own their exclusivism. To be more honest they should say; gods way plus only our way is the only one true way. I don't know all the history of the early church, and all the spits, and I doubt anyone else does either. What I see is, most denominations think they are right, and the other guys are all wrong. Otherwise, why start a new denomination? Unlike the 2x2, a lot of them today coexist with other christian denominations. They don't see the others guys on a path that leads to destruction. I do see a trend for all faiths to coexist. You may have seen these bumper stickers, but I suspect none on the F&W cars.  I understood the 2x2 are 100% exclusive, and 100% intolerant of all other ways to heaven. I'm not saying you can't make a biblical case for that position, but when you do, you should expect push back from the people you think are going to hell. They will try and help you see the errors of your ways. Now when you claim your idea is from day one, most people will need extra biblical evidence beyond that naked assertion. For myself, I think you can make a religion out of the thin air, and gain a following. Consider Raëlism, there number about the same as the 2x2, or there is Mormonism, or Scientology. Here the history is recent, and well documented. Who is to to say, that one idea is more or less valid than the other, about an imagined afterlife? I do hope if people do choose a religion it; more closely agrees with objective reality, unites people instead of dividing them, brings them peace and joy, and helps make the world a happier place for more people. The reason I don't "join" any religion, is because it distorts objective reality. Religion can do no good thing, that can not be done without it. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 24, 2015 13:53:06 GMT -5
Great point. Watch for my new book: "Santa Claus: A Jolly Fraud Exposed". Does this mean I'm going to hell if I don't believe in Santa Claus!! Yes. |
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Jul 24, 2015 14:34:01 GMT -5
Does this mean I'm going to hell if I don't believe in Santa Claus!! Yes. Even if she believes in Rudolph?  |
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