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Post by howitis on Jul 21, 2015 23:07:24 GMT -5
Hi Ros,
No I guess not really, its just an unusual length to go to if you're happy in your own belief and faith. At the end of the day its how things are between you and God, me and God and any individual and God, not about what was said, by whom and where, but our personal relationship with our Heavenly Father. This is fundamental to Christianity, so why bother with all the 'he said, she said, did, didn't do stuff?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 23:11:27 GMT -5
HOWITIS: if you do not believe your accusations of Doug Parker, rather than his text, were "attacking" then obviously you do not believe you were "attacking" him, and I accept you at your word for it. Nonetheless, i perceived it as "attacking him," with your not even knowing if he were dead or alive.
Thank you for your kind words to me.
Not Welcome? Land sakes woman, we'd love the help! There just isn't any near! We both do what we can, and eventually, given time long enough we SHALL complete our project, then our home will be open to anyone wanting to visit. Unfortunately, this arthritis is how it is for me, and at times seems unbearable, however I am not alone in that type of pain or condition even in this forum!
How would others handle the decades of deceptions and outright lies if they were workers? Obviously some continue in them. Others troubled by them cannot discuss them, and many others simply leave that work or are forced from it. I chose to leave. The then Washington State overseer was quoted to me by the current overseers parents as saying to a large gathering of workers about me, that "we sent them the very best we had and he came back a broken wreck." That was very true about how I came back, and would like to believe the first part true also.
However, my knowing where all kinds of skeletons hung in closets, panicked some overseers, and when I made it quite clear I was not about to cover them up any longer, false accusations prevailed, and like a number of others, " off with his head (and let him rest in pieces!) The ONLY recourse open to me was to confess to false accusations which, being false, continue to change through the years. How would you perceive things in my position?
So, again, thank you for your kind words to me, now, how about some for Doug and Helen Parker's text, although you might have to read it first!
Peace at any cost is not really "peace!". Now, if you will let it drop, so will I.
Que sera, sera!
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Post by emy on Jul 21, 2015 23:28:29 GMT -5
A couple of questions, Dennis.
Did you ever expose those skeletons you knew about that you didn't intend to cover up anymore?
How long has it been since you asked a worker for permission to attend a convention - or other meeting? I think you might find a lot there that would cheer your heart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 23:37:44 GMT -5
[quote author=" Jesse_Lackman" Alvin [/quote]Nice post Alvin, thanks. I wish everyone was as fair as you and redback. Jesse, once again thank you for your kind comment. I do not get worked up about religion or politics, After all they are only human devised belief systems. Much more important to find God, and the peace that comes with that. Solomon said "Bring up a child in the way it will go, and it will never depart from it". From birth until I was 27 the influence in my life was the 2x2 system. Whilst there were things that I disagreed with, it still helped mould my character. For this I am truly thankful. In my work life I became a Senior Technical Officer in Telecommunications, much of the time in R&D. My interests turned to Science, and an awareness of a much bigger picture out there, than the one we learnt about with religion. I do not despise religion, but have learnt to put it in its place. Hence I can go to any Church, and enjoy what I hear. Perhaps my attitude is summed up in this item that was posted recently. So what if we get a wrong one sometimes! So what if the usher hands you a paper that tells what the preacher is going to talk about for the next 4 Sundays! So what if the music is a bit too loud! So what if it's a bit too slow or a bit too fast! So what if they clap their hands when they sing! So what if they use drums with the music! So what if the background music continues during prayer and you know the musician must have her eyes open! So what if someone decides to kneel during prayer while others are standing or sitting! (If you had your eyes shut you wouldn't have noticed). So what if it's too formal! So what if the preacher wears a robe! So what if the women don't wear a bun! So what if somebody has blue jeans on! So what if they pass around the bag to get money for missions! So what if somebody sees you put some money in it. (It'll do your heart good to give a little). So what if the building is too fancy! So what if it's too conservative! So what if they don't own one! So what if they do! So what if they pass around the emblems and tell everyone decide for themselves if they're worthy to partake! (Nobody's worthy). So what if the wine is in small individual personal cups instead of one big one! So what if the preacher tells the way of salvation and then invites people to get saved the very first time they hear it! So what if so many respond that there's not enough altar workers to help and you think, ah all these people can't be sincere! So what if they don't even have a preacher because it's a communist country and all they're allowed to do in public is play a tape and the armed guards are standing there listening too! So what if the preacher says the only way is through him! Well then we have a problem but at least he's honest. So if we go with the eyes and ears open, it's great experience. Let's practice some of the "how to think" information we have found. |
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Post by snow on Jul 21, 2015 23:41:10 GMT -5
Jesse, once again thank you for your kind comment. I do not get worked up about religion or politics, After all they are only human devised belief systems. Much more important to find God, and the peace that comes with that. Solomon said "Bring up a child in the way it will go, and it will never depart from it". From birth until I was 27 the influence in my life was the 2x2 system. Whilst there were things that I disagreed with, it still helped mould my character. For this I am truly thankful. In my work life I became a Senior Technical Officer in Telecommunications, much of the time in R&D. My interests turned to Science, and an awareness of a much bigger picture out there, than the one we learnt about with religion. I do not despise religion, but have learnt to put it in its place. Hence I can go to any Church, and enjoy what I hear. Perhaps my attitude is summed up in this item that was posted recently. So what if we get a wrong one sometimes! So what if the usher hands you a paper that tells what the preacher is going to talk about for the next 4 Sundays! So what if the music is a bit too loud! So what if it's a bit too slow or a bit too fast! So what if they clap their hands when they sing! So what if they use drums with the music! So what if the background music continues during prayer and you know the musician must have her eyes open! So what if someone decides to kneel during prayer while others are standing or sitting! (If you had your eyes shut you wouldn't have noticed). So what if it's too formal! So what if the preacher wears a robe! So what if the women don't wear a bun! So what if somebody has blue jeans on! So what if they pass around the bag to get money for missions! So what if somebody sees you put some money in it. (It'll do your heart good to give a little). So what if the building is too fancy! So what if it's too conservative! So what if they don't own one! So what if they do! So what if they pass around the emblems and tell everyone decide for themselves if they're worthy to partake! (Nobody's worthy). So what if the wine is in small individual personal cups instead of one big one! So what if the preacher tells the way of salvation and then invites people to get saved the very first time they hear it! So what if so many respond that there's not enough altar workers to help and you think, ah all these people can't be sincere! So what if they don't even have a preacher because it's a communist country and all they're allowed to do in public is play a tape and the armed guards are standing there listening too! So what if the preacher says the only way is through him! Well then we have a problem but at least he's honest. So if we go with the eyes and ears open, it's great experience. Let's practice some of the "how to think" information we have found. Life reflects the attitude you approach it with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 0:17:43 GMT -5
[quote author=" snow" Life reflects the attitude you approach it with. [/quote] Snow, spot on with your comment. You can make it easy or hard depending on attitude. I was fortunate enough to speak with Doug, also now live in the place where he served in his first Parish as an Anglican Minister. From my own conversation with him, and what I have heard in this place, he was a man with great attitude. His life was used by God, both as a Minister, and later as a Chaplain. We should praise God, for lives like that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 0:20:11 GMT -5
A couple of questions, Dennis. Did you ever expose those skeletons you knew about that you didn't intend to cover up anymore? How long has it been since you asked a worker for permission to attend a convention - or other meeting? I think you might find a lot there that would cheer your heart.
Almost all came to light after I was excommunicated and they thought themselves all covered up. From the results of such knowledge, quite likely still hush-hush, it mattered not to most of those in that system.
The last I asked to attend meetings of an overseer, I was stonewalled and never allowed further contact. Another told me I must repent of the false charges before EVER being allowed contact with friends again, and when asked what I had to repent, they could give no reply...admitting they did not know! Then the local workers began their slander campaign. Now you seem to think I need to go to them!
In serving my God many explanations have been revealed to me, and I remain person non grata in that system. 's okay, now, for I have no confidence in those preserving a religious system by deception, outright dishonesty and direct lies...
Remember people I was asked. |
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Post by emy on Jul 22, 2015 0:46:56 GMT -5
Thank you, Dennis.
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Post by fixit on Jul 22, 2015 0:57:32 GMT -5
The last I asked to attend meetings of an overseer, I was stonewalled and never allowed further contact. Another told me I must repent of the false charges before EVER being allowed contact with friends again, and when asked what I had to repent, they could give no reply...admitting they did not know! Then the local workers began their slander campaign. Now you seem to think I need to go to them! This reminds me of Steve Blubaugh's experience. professing.proboards.com/thread/3170 |
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 22, 2015 1:25:24 GMT -5
Hi Ros, No I guess not really, its just an unusual length to go to if you're happy in your own belief and faith. At the end of the day its how things are between you and God, me and God and any individual and God, not about what was said, by whom and where, but our personal relationship with our Heavenly Father. This is fundamental to Christianity, so why bother with all the 'he said, she said, did, didn't do stuff? I have sent you a private message. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 22, 2015 1:36:01 GMT -5
DMG, I would just like to know his motive that's all! I don't want my faith based on what someone else says about somebody else nor to I want that sort of faith fr another so I'm leaving it at that, knowing full well honest, seeking souls will be given their answers in Gods time. I was nor trying to do Doug an injustice at any time, just merely questioning his motive and timing.
I have it on tape and you can read it on TTT ( telling the truth) exit stories.
Sometimes answers "given in Gods time," is way too late to be of any help to that person! |
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 1:46:31 GMT -5
Many exes will tell the same story as Cherie, and also not a few folks still active participants in the fellowship.
Mine is a similar story and while I still enjoy fellowship, since ceasing to depend on the workers for spiritual growth, I realise that I had been starving. I have perhaps been through the Bible cover to cover many times as well as many focussed studies, but I had not been receiving meat. My 'extra-curricular' studies now include listening to online bible teachers and online references.
I feasted at the workers table for 40 years before understanding that I was only getting milk but needed meat to mature.
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 1:50:13 GMT -5
Hi Ros, No I guess not really, its just an unusual length to go to if you're happy in your own belief and faith. At the end of the day its how things are between you and God, me and God and any individual and God, not about what was said, by whom and where, but our personal relationship with our Heavenly Father. This is fundamental to Christianity, so why bother with all the 'he said, she said, did, didn't do stuff? And yet your manner of posting about DP would seem to contradict this belief? |
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 2:23:22 GMT -5
Many exes will tell the same story as Cherie, and also not a few folks still active participants in the fellowship. Mine is a similar story and while I still enjoy fellowship, since ceasing to depend on the workers for spiritual growth, I realise that I had been starving. I have perhaps been through the Bible cover to cover many times as well as many focussed studies, but I had not been receiving meat. My 'extra-curricular' studies now include listening to online bible teachers and online references. I feasted at the workers table for 40 years before understanding that I was only getting milk but needed meat to mature. You are right Nathan, but outside study has given me what some might refer to as BS filters. |
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Post by howitis on Jul 22, 2015 4:28:06 GMT -5
Dennis,
Thankyou, I feel so much for you and your lovely wife. Haven't had the same experience as you, obviously though I did have an elder worker 'apologise' to me for things he had said and how he had acted toward me, after he'd managed to become somewhat of a pestilence for almost 12 months, only to go not 2 miles away and say 'well he had apologised, but really thought he had seen me do such and such......', not exactly an apology then was it?
Fred,
If we feed only on our bad experiences and that of others of course we starve!!
My queries of DP I feel were totally rational, surely we have a motive if we go to such lengths
And DMG
Yes to me he felt he had a right or needed to expose deceitfulness, but those lies weren't part of my experience, why people would focus on that instead of the living Word amazes me.
As for John Winter, I'm glad he spoke freely about such things, know too he was a 'you're not worthy to take part preacher' as well, but you know he's gone and can't defend himself so I'll not continue.
To Helen Parker, should this reach you, I am sorry if I have caused you and yours any unrest and so sorry your Doug has passed on, to think I'd been praying for him....ah well!!
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 4:46:30 GMT -5
Not sure how these comments relate to anything I've posted?
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Post by howitis on Jul 22, 2015 4:52:17 GMT -5
Ok sure, you'll work it out
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 5:53:10 GMT -5
Ok sure, you'll work it out LOL .... I do believe I've encountered that sort of talk before.  |
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Post by howitis on Jul 22, 2015 6:23:17 GMT -5
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 6:29:23 GMT -5
Is that the dirt you have on Doug Parker, howitis? Can't see any dirt, just your own opinion saying he was trying to split the church. He wrote a book on what he found out, if it was going to split the church then so be it. But that would not have been Doug's motive, telling the truth was.
Those in meetings often say exes are trying to start a church etc. and your statement sounds just like another one of these conclusions which are based on rumors unless you have proof that that was what he was trying to do.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 9:30:39 GMT -5
Life reflects the attitude you approach it with. Another simple, superb, absolute truth statement from you Snow. |
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Post by hberry on Jul 22, 2015 9:44:57 GMT -5
Many exes will tell the same story as Cherie, and also not a few folks still active participants in the fellowship. Mine is a similar story and while I still enjoy fellowship, since ceasing to depend on the workers for spiritual growth, I realise that I had been starving. I have perhaps been through the Bible cover to cover many times as well as many focussed studies, but I had not been receiving meat. My 'extra-curricular' studies now include listening to online bible teachers and online references. I feasted at the workers table for 40 years before understanding that I was only getting milk but needed meat to mature. My (and hubby's) experience exactly. |
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Post by snow on Jul 22, 2015 10:09:37 GMT -5
snow" Life reflects the attitude you approach it with. now, spot on with your comment. You can make it easy or hard depending on attitude. I was fortunate enough to speak with Doug, also now live in the place where he served in his first Parish as an Anglican Minister. From my own conversation with him, and what I have heard in this place, he was a man with great attitude. His life was used by God, both as a Minister, and later as a Chaplain. We should praise God, for lives like that. I haven't read any of these books everyone is discussing. Never knew they existed until I found TMB. Don't think I'll bother though. It really doesn't matter what others think about my life decisions. And, I reached them on my own, so they are entirely mine. |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 10:52:38 GMT -5
Thanks Jesse. I stand corrected, as evidently some exes have stated your church is of Satan. Sadly, when people are hurt and in retaliation mode, name calling happens and it hurts in return. No winners. No excuse. It is hurtful to be viewed as an agent of Satan, as many can attest. Yes it does. Thanks for your reply. Alvin Let's look at some quotes from Doug Parker's 1954 A Spiritual Fraud Exposed Here's a question right off the bat, how can I, a member in a fellowship that is a spiritual fraud, NOT be condemned to hell? Anyway on to the quotes; Not of God? Then we are condemned to hell. Dissolved? Hmmm, that might be the motive for the subjective broad brush ranting running rampant in his writing. Again, "No religious craze" "unscriptural" "unnatural" "so revolting and so unholy"; how in the world can anyone involved with the worst religious craze ever, not be condemned to hell?? Interesting throughout the writing he seems especially peeved about wealth, including his own. He refers to Cooney's wealth which reminds me of this write up about it from a family member; SarahRandle.pdf (274.09 KB)
Where would someone not ever connected with the fellowship get ideas like this? The truth?? What a joke, they got their information from biased activist exe sites! Like Saul consenting to the death of Stephen these activist exes bear responsibility for others saying things like this based on what the activist exes have published. Note the references listed. They are bitter about the money to the end. (Interesting it was money that blew up VOT too.)
Back to the Parker, the vitriol, hate, and bitterness is amazing. There is not even one good word in the whole paper. Parker makes absolute truth statements that in reality are a complete farce;
False. What a condescending, authoritarian, and patronizing statement. As if it's his to judge. Seems to be a bit of pride and jealousy involved here. Wow, that publication represents a sweet and wholesome spirit?? All I know it's not like the spirit shown by @redback, snow, slowtosee and others who prove it here in their posts. I can believe Doug was told to "leave those people alone" by his fellow preachers when they read what he wrote. So sad so many can take an obviously bitter and poisonous publication and put their faith in it. Unbelievable really. It shows when they do. And more than that, so many activist exes re-quote and re-quote what Parker re-quoted in their own publications - as if all the re-quoting and cross quoting makes the biased personal opinions quoted absolutely and universally true. It doesn't. The hateful stream of misrepresentations and outright lies has been like a deluge. The hate is clear. The reality of the fellowship proves so much of it is NOT universally true like it is always made out to be in activist exe publications. I really appreciate exes who are fair and balanced, who acknowledge the good in the fellowship, who see all this hate and choose to not partake. That is something you NEVER see an activist exe publication like this one from Doug Parker doing. |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 11:08:32 GMT -5
Many exes will tell the same story as Cherie, and also not a few folks still active participants in the fellowship. Mine is a similar story and while I still enjoy fellowship, since ceasing to depend on the workers for spiritual growth, I realise that I had been starving. I have perhaps been through the Bible cover to cover many times as well as many focussed studies, but I had not been receiving meat. My 'extra-curricular' studies now include listening to online bible teachers and online references. I feasted at the workers table for 40 years before understanding that I was only getting milk but needed meat to mature. My (and hubby's) experience exactly. My experience has been the exact opposite. Workers have said "search the scriptures" so I have. It helps when you are raised in a family of very independent thinkers.  |
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Post by hberry on Jul 22, 2015 12:00:58 GMT -5
My (and hubby's) experience exactly. My experience has been the exact opposite. Workers have said "search the scriptures" so I have. It helps when you are raised in a family of very independent thinkers. I was also raised by independent thinkers. My parents taught me to search the scriptures and pray, not ask the workers. Yes, it is very good to be raised by independent thinkers. |
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 14:15:02 GMT -5
Reading the Bible yourself and receiving good Bible teaching from others are different. As stated and said a number of times on this and other boards when those in meetings start hearing outside preachers they realize how starved they were of good teaching in meeting. This was also true for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 14:51:50 GMT -5
Agreed, Mary. Nonetheless, some of us (with some helpful advice and words along the way!) have indeed discovered much by asking, seeking, knocking in our study of the Bible. Unfortunately that approach, when not accompanied by considerable outside study of pro and con, can easily lead astray into private "interpretation." Not good!Reading the Bible yourself and receiving good Bible teaching from others are different. As stated and said a number of times on this and other boards when those in meetings start hearing outside preachers they realize how starved they were of good teaching in meeting. This was also true for me.
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