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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 19:04:22 GMT -5
Rational, HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF GOSSIP when I have the dates from a Manitoba paper and then have the date on the photo.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 19:11:52 GMT -5
Rational and Bert, you guys seem to enjoy arguing with the TMB posters more than discussing and condemning this horrible scourge. It is a culture of secrecy that makes the problem worse in any venue be it Truth, Catholicism, public schools,Boy Scouts etc.
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Post by rational on Apr 14, 2015 20:58:23 GMT -5
Rational, HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF GOSSIP when I have the dates from a Manitoba paper and then have the date on the photo. I was laboring under the assumption that you knew the difference between an interrogative and declarative sentence. In this case I was asking not accusing. Your post might carry more credibility if it didn't end with " I don't know. I can't say for sure." I think that makes sense but...I don't know. I can't say for sure. |
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Post by rational on Apr 14, 2015 21:14:48 GMT -5
Rational and Bert, you guys seem to enjoy arguing with the TMB posters more than discussing and condemning this horrible scourge. Sometimes what is posted raises questions. Do you think TMB posters are above questioning? Should they be?Public schools have a culture of secrecy? What about the venue where most child abuse takes place? Do families also have a culture of secrecy? I think the condemning part has been covered. Sounds like you think discussion is really people posting in agreement with you. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 15, 2015 1:06:49 GMT -5
Ernie Barry attended NZ conventions in 1989, I would be interested to know whether the head worker of the time, Nathan McCarthey or his sidekick, Alan Richardson knew of the rumours surrounding this guy at the time of his visit. And were there any issues with him at the time of his visit?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 3:35:47 GMT -5
Rational, HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF GOSSIP when I have the dates from a Manitoba paper and then have the date on the photo. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 15, 2015 3:41:15 GMT -5
Bert, Have you ever been kicked off a convention ground?
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 15, 2015 4:36:31 GMT -5
Hey Bert you still have NOT answered my question  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 6:26:20 GMT -5
Bert, Have you ever been kicked off a convention ground?
Actually I have - I was told by the Workers I didn't have
to spend a week with them in Preps. So I went home. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 6:27:11 GMT -5
Hey Bert you still have NOT answered my question
And I can't remember - have you answered mine? |
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Post by rational on Apr 15, 2015 7:46:16 GMT -5
Ernie Barry attended NZ conventions in 1989, I would be interested to know whether the head worker of the time, Nathan McCarthey or his sidekick, Alan Richardson knew of the rumours surrounding this guy at the time of his visit. And were there any issues with him at the time of his visit? This raises the question of why? It was over 2 decades ago. It is a known fact that the workers, as well as the leaders of most groups, religious or otherwise, tried to hide the fact that there were people in their organization that moved people to other locations to hide the fact that they were offenders and, sometimes, to satisfy the wishes of the victim/victim's guardian. When you ask about issues - are you asking if there were crimes committed on the convention grounds while the person was present? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 15, 2015 20:18:41 GMT -5
Hey Bert you still have NOT answered my question
And I can't remember - have you answered mine?How typical Bert ! When a question is too hard don't answer it .... sounds like some workers I know !! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 15, 2015 20:21:42 GMT -5
"Bert you still have not answered the question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker at convention would you report it to the authorities ? You obviously are not aware of the amount of children that have been abused at convention on pack-up day !! Stop avoiding a straight question Bert, either yes or no will do " here it is again just for you Bert !!! |
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Post by rational on Apr 15, 2015 22:58:26 GMT -5
You obviously are not aware of the amount of children that have been abused at convention on pack-up day !! I assume that 'pack-up day' is the last day of a convention. How many children are abused on that day at a typical convention? Knowing the day when children will be abused makes it very easy for the parents and others to prevent the abuse. What is going on that this happens frequently enough that people (you) speak of it as if everyone should be aware of the abuse? Why hasn't someone who knows about it reported it to the authorities? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 16, 2015 0:58:44 GMT -5
Rational, pack-up day is the day after the last day of Convention, as I said before at Conventions like Booyong in Australia where the men's side is a long way from the rest of the convention there is the perfect opportunity for this to happen, the cases that I am aware of happened in the 70's by the worker that has recently been re-baptised, this was reported to the Overseer at the time but nothing was done. Some parents leave their children with grandparents to help on pack-up day the same as with preps. The reason I bought this up was in reply to Bert's comment that children are not abused at convention !
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 16, 2015 1:30:04 GMT -5
Ernie Barry attended NZ conventions in 1989, I would be interested to know whether the head worker of the time, Nathan McCarthey or his sidekick, Alan Richardson knew of the rumours surrounding this guy at the time of his visit. And were there any issues with him at the time of his visit? This raises the question of why? It was over 2 decades ago. It is a known fact that the workers, as well as the leaders of most groups, religious or otherwise, tried to hide the fact that there were people in their organization that moved people to other locations to hide the fact that they were offenders and, sometimes, to satisfy the wishes of the victim/victim's guardian. When you ask about issues - are you asking if there were crimes committed on the convention grounds while the person was present? Yep. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 16, 2015 1:33:25 GMT -5
Bert do the workers know that you watch all these TV programs you have been telling us about.
It's ok to tell us Bert, we wont laugh too much.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 2:54:17 GMT -5
Which one?
And I can't remember - have you answered mine? How typical Bert ! When a question is too hard don't answer it .... sounds like some workers I know !! From Wikipedia on loaded questions: Madeleine Albright (U.S. Ambassador to the U.N.) claims to have answered a loaded question (and later regretted not challenging it instead) on 60 Minutes on 12 May 1996. Lesley Stahl asked, regarding the effects of UN sanctions against Iraq, "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Madeleine Albright: " I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it."[6] She later wrote of this response: I must have been crazy; I should have answered the question by reframing it and pointing out the inherent flaws in the premise behind it. … As soon as I had spoken, I wished for the power to freeze time and take back those words. My reply had been a terrible mistake, hasty, clumsy, and wrong. … I had fallen into a trap and said something that I simply did not mean. That is no one’s fault but my own.[7]President Bill Clinton, the moderator in a town meeting discussing the topic "Race In America", in response to a participant argument that the issue was not affirmative action but "racial preferences" asked the participant a loaded question: " Do you favor the United States Army abolishing the affirmative-action program that produced Colin Powell? Yes or no?" [8] For another example, the New Zealand corporal punishment referendum, 2009 asked: " Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?" Murray Edridge, of Barnardos New Zealand, criticized the question as "loaded and ambiguous" and claimed " the question presupposes that smacking is a part of good parental correction".[9] A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1] Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, they will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 16, 2015 3:10:51 GMT -5
Bert that is just a cop out, but of course that is what we would expect, also this is why CSA is still being hidden amongst the F&W. Rather than stand up & say "Yes I would report CSA to the authorities" you go round & round in circles ! How sad is it we are in 2015 & you still are trying to hide something that is a criminal act, you are so quick to go on about TV shows etc etc but what are YOU doing about what is happening in your church ? I suppose you think its ok for Noel Harvey to be re-baptised too  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 3:17:30 GMT -5
You know, about once a year I say to someone on the
TMB, "answer my question first and I'll answer yours."
and they reply, "No, you answer first!"
So I dutifully answer, and they vanish.
Don't believe me? Try it. Answer my questions.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 16, 2015 3:23:37 GMT -5
Exactly what were your question Bert? From memory I asked you the question first, way back days or even a week ago !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 3:28:44 GMT -5
Well, here's the funny part - I can't remember my own question!
I asked it so long ago that I have forgotten. So along with hair
growing out my nose and ears, I now can't remember anything, either.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 16, 2015 3:31:38 GMT -5
Maybe if you go back through this thread it will jog your memory ! Or the thread "What are you doing to help the abused"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 3:37:28 GMT -5
Ah... found it
As I see it, it's like this:
1 - I don't like to hear of ANY minister (in any church) engaging in CSA.
2 - I don't like the sexualization of our society.
Which of these two are YOU happy with?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 4:14:56 GMT -5
Rational and Bert, you guys seem to enjoy arguing with the TMB posters more than discussing and condemning this horrible scourge. It is a culture of secrecy that makes the problem worse in any venue be it Truth, Catholicism, public schools,Boy Scouts etc. Some people refer to this sort of thing as "nit-picking." |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 16, 2015 4:21:21 GMT -5
I think that nit picking should not have a hyphen between the two words.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 16, 2015 4:23:47 GMT -5
Bert, Have you ever been kicked off a convention ground?
Actually I have - I was told by the Workers I didn't have
to spend a week with them in Preps. So I went home.They could probably sense that you were pining for your tele Bert. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 4:26:20 GMT -5
"Bert you still have not answered the question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker at convention would you report it to the authorities ? You obviously are not aware of the amount of children that have been abused at convention on pack-up day !! Stop avoiding a straight question Bert, either yes or no will do " here it is again just for you Bert !!! He has the right to remain silent, anything he says :)may be written down and used as evidence against him; he will not risk incriminating himself. |
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