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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2015 17:07:20 GMT -5
Bert, your views echo some in the fellowship. Make fun of victims and defend your belief system. Until this mindset changes, the fellowship will struggle. CSA is a real problem and not just an excuse to "lose out".
We do not condone it.
Having said that, adultery and divorce were once
criminal offenses (death penalty in some cases) but
are now condoned - even on the TMB.
And most forms of entertainment I mentioned above
attracted jail sentences or the death penalty, yet
today are widely defended.
Yet somehow, through CSA style threads, it is WE
who are portrayed as sexual deviants, all of us.No just the ones that don't support reporting CSA to the authorities. You say your group doesn't condone it. I believe you. However, do any of you really get proactive about making sure it doesn't happen in your group, gets reported to the correct authorities, and no one gets in trouble for reporting it? From what I hear people get in trouble for reporting it. You have never answered my question about what you would do if you came across a juvenile being abused by a worker? You said as a last resort you would report them, but first you would take the situation into your own hands. What does that mean exactly? Also, don't you think it would be proactive to have the workers stand up at convention stating that everyone that knows about an incidence of CSA that they report it immediately to the proper authorities and after they do that to let the overseers know so that they can remove them from the work until the investigation is over? |
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 7, 2015 18:41:38 GMT -5
If you have a "problem" with a "pervert" on the convention ground then just stay home and turn on the ol' TV - some good shows just coming out, like: Game of Thrones - incest, sex scenes, boob shots, prostitutes etc.. True Blood - sex scenes, hot chicks, vampires etc.. Masters of Sex - buts, boobs, sex scenes, crotch scenes etc.. Girls - sex scenes, penises, buts, boobs etc.. then there's the repeats, like... Californication - drinking, womanizing, drug abuse etc.. The L Word - lesbians, mostly - boobs, butts etc.. Shameless - horny adults, unsupervised teenagers.... Of course there's the old tired Sex In The City, or even the tame ones like Bold and the Beautiful where Rick has "slept" with just about every woman on the show. It's all just screwing or killing. Entertainment today is aimed directly at our naughty bits, and as many have pointed out - we wouldn't want it any other way. So go tell those pervert workers you have better things to entertain younow. If they don't like it, just say it's all their fault you have to watch this stuff and live in this culture.
I don't watch commercial TV except for the news. I stick with PBS.
I had no idea what I was missing!  
But I thought that the discussion here was on " registered offender's of child sex abusers" at a convention.
Does any of those programs that you cited portray "Sex abuse of children?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 7, 2015 18:53:04 GMT -5
Bert, your views echo some in the fellowship. Make fun of victims and defend your belief system. Until this mindset changes, the fellowship will struggle. CSA is a real problem and not just an excuse to "lose out".
Having said that, adultery and divorce were once criminal offenses (death penalty in some cases) but are now condoned - even on the TMB.
And most forms of entertainment I mentioned above attracted jail sentences or the death penalty, yet today are a hearty part of your "belief system."
Yet somehow, through CSA style threads, it is WE who are portrayed as sexual deviants, all of us.
I might be offended, but I am not surprised.
The fact that you group them all together shows you don't understand that very important factor.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 19:41:19 GMT -5
Yet somehow, through CSA style threads, it is WE
who are portrayed as sexual deviants, all of us.
I might be offended, but I am not surprised.
***
I have NEVER said this in ANY WAY. It is how CSA HAS BEEN HANDLED IN THE PAST! The cover-ups, denials, excommunicating or scolding the person bringing up the charge etc. that has been a problem in the fellowship meetings. Small closed societies like the Truth and a bunch of other groups make the problem worse when they try to cover up wrongs under the image of a PERFECT WAY! The rate of CSA may be lower than many or most groups but the lack of reporting the problem has been an additional problem. It is hard to go after a pervert in the work or even a prominent elder if you believe you will face a lost eternity for doing so. Bert, I never see any anger towards those who harm children when it happens in the fellowship. I am sure you oppose it but you are hesitant about speaking out against it here. Bert, I know you are a good person who feels like these "enemy" websites are trying to tear down the fellowship. But CSA causes pain, suffering, embarrassment, etc. It is NOT just an excuse to leave the meetings, no. It is a horrible thing.
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Post by fixit on Apr 7, 2015 20:12:34 GMT -5
Bert, your views echo some in the fellowship. Make fun of victims and defend your belief system. Until this mindset changes, the fellowship will struggle. CSA is a real problem and not just an excuse to "lose out".
We do not condone it.
Having said that, adultery and divorce were once
criminal offenses (death penalty in some cases) but
are now condoned - even on the TMB.
And most forms of entertainment I mentioned above
attracted jail sentences or the death penalty, yet
today are a hearty part of your "belief system."
Yet somehow, through CSA style threads, it is WE
who are portrayed as sexual deviants, all of us.
I might be offended, but I am not surprised.I'm offended that you portray criminal sexual abuse of innocent children as no worse than a sexual relationship between consenting adults. Tell us it isn't so Bert. |
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Post by kittens on Apr 7, 2015 20:13:05 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 7, 2015 20:18:32 GMT -5
If you have a "problem" with a "pervert" on the convention groundthen just stay home and turn on the ol' TV - some good shows
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Post by emy on Apr 8, 2015 0:19:14 GMT -5
I know probably 400-500 of them well enough to comment. Out of that small section I could give you the names of 10 friends and workers who have 'allegedly' committed crimes against children.
Have those you know of had their day in court? If so, good! How many have been convicted? If not, why not?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 3:01:10 GMT -5
If you have a "problem" with a "pervert" on the convention groundthen just stay home and turn on the ol' TV - some good shows
then stay away. Plenty on TV to occupy your prurient mind. If WE have
a problem we need to handle it.
As I see it, it's like this:
1 - I don't like to hear of ANY minister (in any church) engaging in CSA.
2 - I don't like the sexualization of our society.
Which of these two are YOU happy with?
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 8, 2015 5:15:44 GMT -5
Bert you still have not answered the question, would you report CSA to the authorities ? I really find it hard to understand why you cannot answer this question and why ?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 8:29:21 GMT -5
Also, don't you think it would be proactive to have the workers stand up at convention stating that everyone that knows about an incidence of CSA that they report it immediately to the proper authorities and after they do that to let the overseers know so that they can remove them from the work until the investigation is over? - You should randomly and frequently re-post this. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 6:51:06 GMT -5
There is no need for Darren Briggs, Peter Mousseau, George SCANDALis, Noel Tanner, Noel Harvey, Bruce Waddell, Tim Severud, Chris Chandler, Ernie Barry, etc. to be on conventions grounds where children are running around unsupervised.Unless they want to videotape the grounds!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 6:52:18 GMT -5
Darren Briggs and Bruce Waddell attended convention the year they were busted. And a parent of Waddell's victims didn't even want to have Waddell charged!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 6:54:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 7:02:12 GMT -5
n an interview outside court, Waddell said he victimized other children but he was only charged with the Thompson, Man., case.
There was no mention of other child victims during the court hearing.
"There's been other victims but that's been looked after," Waddell said.
"We looked after the others before," he said.
"Everybody forgave me. The ones that I did, the parents forgave me. We believe in repentance and forgiveness."
Waddell said none of the parents wanted him to go to the police.
"They didn't want to go to the law of the land. They wanted to leave it in God's hands," he said
****
This makes me SICK!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 9:19:26 GMT -5
Also, don't you think it would be proactive to have the workers stand up at convention stating that everyone that knows about an incidence of CSA that they report it immediately to the proper authorities and after they do that to let the overseers know so that they can remove them from the work until the investigation is over? - You should randomly and frequently re-post this. Yep, and perhaps we a bold heading : NO HIDING PLACE, eh! |
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2015 11:39:33 GMT -5
They wanted to leave it in God's hands," he said **** This makes me SICK!!!!!!! Agreed. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 20:30:33 GMT -5
Tim Severud was at Shoals the year he was busted also!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 20:32:14 GMT -5
Darren Briggs was at Strathroy the year he was busted (2006)
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Post by fixit on Apr 10, 2015 22:21:45 GMT -5
Bert, if you are trying to uphold the "TRUTH" the F&W's, you are doing them more harm than good by taking this kind of attitude.
No, if YOU have a problem with the unbridled sexuality of Convention then stay away. Plenty on TV to occupy your prurient mind. If WE have a problem we need to handle it. Who is WE? |
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Post by sacerdotal on Apr 10, 2015 23:32:10 GMT -5
Thinking about the seven Spirits in Acts 5. We know groups of people develop group personalities, like a group spirit. Small "s" spirit would be of man. So, what is the spirit of this thread? What is the spirit of TMB itself? Is it a Spirit or a spirit? Might make a good thread. Hmm. Who cares how it makes the 2x2s look? Perhaps they shouldn't shield workers or friends who have a history of misdeeds without having to be held accountable. Somehow or another, I think the Spirit would be more grieved at a group that SAYS that they go out in His name and yet cares not for the little ones. And this group, does not care for the little ones if the abuse of the little ones by the esteemed leaders make the group "look bad". |
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Post by sacerdotal on Apr 10, 2015 23:38:54 GMT -5
If you have a "problem" with a "pervert" on the convention ground then just stay home and turn on the ol' TV - some good shows just coming out, like: Game of Thrones - incest, sex scenes, boob shots, prostitutes etc.. True Blood - sex scenes, hot chicks, vampires etc.. Masters of Sex - buts, boobs, sex scenes, crotch scenes etc.. Girls - sex scenes, penises, buts, boobs etc.. then there's the repeats, like... Californication - drinking, womanizing, drug abuse etc.. The L Word - lesbians, mostly - boobs, butts etc.. Shameless - horny adults, unsupervised teenagers.... Of course there's the old tired Sex In The City, or even the tame ones like Bold and the Beautiful where Rick has "slept" with just about every woman on the show. It's all just screwing or killing. Entertainment today is aimed directly at our naughty bits, and as many have pointed out - we wouldn't want it any other way. So go tell those pervert workers you have better things to entertain you now. If they don't like it just say it's all their fault you have to watch this stuff and live in this culture. So which of the TV shows are the workers that molest children watching (and those that cover for them)? Kind of blunts your theory, doesn't it? |
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Post by withlove on Apr 11, 2015 0:31:22 GMT -5
If you have a "problem" with a "pervert" on the convention ground then just stay home and turn on the ol' TV - some good shows just coming out, like: Game of Thrones - incest, sex scenes, boob shots, prostitutes etc.. True Blood - sex scenes, hot chicks, vampires etc.. Masters of Sex - buts, boobs, sex scenes, crotch scenes etc.. Girls - sex scenes, penises, buts, boobs etc.. then there's the repeats, like... Californication - drinking, womanizing, drug abuse etc.. The L Word - lesbians, mostly - boobs, butts etc.. Shameless - horny adults, unsupervised teenagers.... Of course there's the old tired Sex In The City, or even the tame ones like Bold and the Beautiful where Rick has "slept" with just about every woman on the show. It's all just screwing or killing. Entertainment today is aimed directly at our naughty bits, and as many have pointed out - we wouldn't want it any other way. So go tell those pervert workers you have better things to entertain you now. If they don't like it just say it's all their fault you have to watch this stuff and live in this culture. Why is pervert in quotation marks? Are.you.seriously.making.light.of.CSA.by.comparing.it.to.immorality.on.t.v. It seems like your goal on this board is to distract attention from any criticism. Scientology's Office of Special Affairs does the same thing on boards that are critical of that church--change the subject of a thread, drive any negative threads to the bottom and off the front page, encourage arguments. It may work temporarily but not for long. And it just makes the church look worse. |
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Post by withlove on Apr 11, 2015 0:41:44 GMT -5
Bert, if you are trying to uphold the "TRUTH" the F&W's, you are doing them more harm than good by taking this kind of attitude.
then stay away. Plenty on TV to occupy your prurient mind. If WE have
a problem we need to handle it.
As I see it, it's like this:
1 - I don't like to hear of ANY minister (in any church) engaging in CSA.
2 - I don't like the sexualization of our society.
Which of these two are YOU happy with?
Whoever WE happens to be...it isn't handled and they certainly do. That's why critics. Of course you would like us to shut up and go watch tv. Sorry to disappoint you, but we care about little bodies and souls and their well-being too much to do that. Not sure if you are only asking dmmichgood or everyone, but for what it's worth I'm not happy either 1 or 2. What a ridiculous question. Where are you going with this? Are you trying to blame the CSA mess on a sexualized society? Is the sexualized society what prevents overseers from taking care of business? Is the sexualized society what makes you want to not report an incident to the police until you've handled it internally? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 1:57:35 GMT -5
Yes, "expel the wicked from among you." A senile power mad old man made such a proclamation about me, anyone rising to my defense was threatened with the same excommunication. My crime? Failing to kowtow to wicked men by simply saying I was not guilty of what I was accused, and it certainly was not of any CSA nor other sexual nature.
The very ones judging me as worthy of excommunication from family and friends later proved themselves the vile, wicked presumptuous men they fearfully knew I could have exposed them as being. Still the 2&2 infallibility ranks closed tightly, boldly lying directly to my own parents who were taught to believe them as absolutely honest from both mom and dad's earliest childhood until their death.
Had I not experienced it myself, likely I would never have believed it, neither, as indoctrinated as I was.
Do I respect any here defending any type of harmful behavior or pretending it does not exist in their fellowship? No, absolutely not!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 17:43:00 GMT -5
Did Jeff Thayer, Glenn Gasser and Carson Wallace KNOW that visiting workers were perverts? Probably not. Would they have believed it if someone had warned them? No, the warning soul would have been labeled bitter, a trouble maker, or possessing a WRONG SPIRIT. In the case of Manitoba's Bruce Waddell, Madisonville is in September so I feel like some of his victims were harmed earlier in the year. Did Alton Mose or Glenn Gasser know? I don't know. I can't say for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 17:47:42 GMT -5
During the court hearing, Blenkinsop said about a year after the incident, Waddell left the non-denominational ministry
****** ONE YEAR? ONE YEAR!!!!!!!!
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Post by rational on Apr 14, 2015 17:48:22 GMT -5
Did Jeff Thayer, Glenn Gasser and Carson Wallace KNOW that visiting workers were perverts? Probably not. Would they have believed it if someone had warned them? No, the warning soul would have been labeled bitter, a trouble maker, or possessing a WRONG SPIRIT. In the case of Manitoba's Bruce Waddell, Madisonville is in September so I feel like some of his victims were harmed earlier in the year. Did Alton Mose or Glenn Gasser know? I don't know. I can't say for sure. Are you spreading rumors and gossip in the form of questions? I don't know. I can't say for sure. |
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