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Post by George Otto on Aug 14, 2005 21:57:29 GMT -5
What makes truth unique in the world, Is it not the practice of not electing or officially recognizing one person as earthly leader. [?]
This is truely a remarkable feature not duplicated any where else in the world.
Is this because there truely is a lack of seeking to be honored among men ? In the scope of world affairs, this would be wonderful if it could be a system used throughout the world to bring peace, and I do believe someday this system of selflessness will rule the world as it has never been ruled before.
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Post by ilylo on Aug 14, 2005 22:07:34 GMT -5
So 2x2ism is more important to you than being a Christian?
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Post by gregleeinnd on Aug 14, 2005 22:13:48 GMT -5
Don't forget the useful tool in thw owrkers' church to keep the peace, less you get exciommunicated and banished to hell.
I suppose similar in the world would be execution by firing quad or banishment to any specific, remote, barren location.
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Post by George on Aug 14, 2005 22:15:26 GMT -5
So 2x2ism is more important to you than being a Christian? thank you, I accept your question as an equation as to me both names are vague in assigning a uniform definition.
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Post by George on Aug 14, 2005 22:17:53 GMT -5
Don't forget the useful tool in thw owrkers' church to keep the peace, less you get exciommunicated and banished to hell. I suppose similar in the world would be execution by firing quad or banishment to any specific, remote, barren location. There is no logic to your assumption.
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Post by gregleeinnd on Aug 14, 2005 22:19:27 GMT -5
thank you, I accept your question as an equation as to me both names are vague in assigning a uniform definition. 2x2ism = salvation in Jesus only through the workers' ministry and their accompanying rules/laws/stanadards. Christianity = belief in the death, resurrection, ascension, and salvation through such of Jesus as given by faith through the grace of God without any merit of receiver/believer.
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Post by George on Aug 14, 2005 22:25:03 GMT -5
thank you, I accept your question as an equation as to me both names are vague in assigning a uniform definition. 2x2ism = salvation in Jesus only through the workers' ministry and their accompanying rules/laws/stanadards. Christianity = belief in the death, resurrection, ascension, and salvation through such of Jesus as given by faith through the grace of God without any merit of receiver/believer. I disagree with your definitions, as they are vague [imo]
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Post by gregleeinnd on Aug 14, 2005 22:26:57 GMT -5
I disagree with your definitions, as they are vague [imo] 'k
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Post by selah on Aug 14, 2005 23:34:45 GMT -5
The f&w recognize a leader over certain areas...like an overseer, right? Most of the churches I'm familiar with do not elect one person as an earthly leader. They recognize Jesus as their leader and Master, and recognize the pastoral, teaching, evangelistic and prophetic gifts within the body of believers.
I guess we don't really know what's in the heart, but I suspect most spiritual leaders are not in the ministry because they want to be honored among men.
Today's world (at least in our culture) seems to honor those of wealth and business success, rather than those who seek to teach about Jesus. I think if they were seeking men's honor, they would choose another profession.
I do believe, also, that one day we will see a righteous government with Jesus Christ as the ruler over all.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by ilylo on Aug 14, 2005 23:42:28 GMT -5
So 2x2ism is more important to you than being a Christian? thank you, I accept your question as an equation as to me both names are vague in assigning a uniform definition. And thank you as well for using the word "truth" in a manner as to refer specifically to 2x2ism. Nothing vague about that.
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Post by Jason Storebo on Aug 15, 2005 3:03:04 GMT -5
Both of my parents have told me that if they knew of anything that was more scriptural & like unto the way of the first Christians....that they would have gone with that. So far they seem perfectly satisfied that the truth IS THE TRUTH.
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Post by asking Jason on Aug 15, 2005 3:05:59 GMT -5
Do your parents acknowledge that Jesus alone is the truth or do they refer to their group as the truth?
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Post by Jason Storebo on Aug 15, 2005 4:03:38 GMT -5
I can't directly speak for mom & dad...but I believe that they would say that the truth & Jesus are the same thing..i.e..the truth of Jesus is to be found in the "professing way". They are somewhat liberal...in that they feel that certain others, belonging to the denominational churches (or even heathens) might be saved....since God only knows the heart's of men...and that God knows who amongst those never exposed to the truth....would have accepted the truth of the 2x2 way...if but they had only heard it presented to them by the workers.
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Post by sjg on Aug 15, 2005 8:27:56 GMT -5
No earthly leader is needed. Sadly, William Irvine is still leading from the grave.
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Post by ousted on Aug 15, 2005 8:36:27 GMT -5
No earthly leader is needed. Sadly, William Irvine is still leading from the grave. I thought he had a falling out due to his ungodly life stylle, some left with him, though. I trust God was in charge of his [wi] departure.
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Post by sjg on Aug 15, 2005 10:44:16 GMT -5
Yes, but his doctrine is still the guiding force.
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Post by guesst on Aug 15, 2005 19:05:18 GMT -5
Yes, but his doctrine is still the guiding force. no, his doctrine left when he left, there were some that did follow his teachings, but they also left when he left.
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Post by IN AWE on Aug 15, 2005 20:28:58 GMT -5
What makes truth unique in the world, Is it not the practice of not electing or officially recognizing one person as earthly leader. [?] This is truely a remarkable feature not duplicated any where else in the world. Is this because there truely is a lack of seeking to be honored among men ? In the scope of world affairs, this would be wonderful if it could be a system used throughout the world to bring peace, and I do believe someday this system of selflessness will rule the world as it has never been ruled before. No matter what anyone says , I still marvel how it works, it is so totally awesomeee.....
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Post by the 2x2s on Aug 15, 2005 21:59:59 GMT -5
what is awesome?
I statnd in awe at the way the Gospel message is spread over the world regardless of denomination.
I stand in awe of the ineffectiveness the workers are in reaching and bringing people to Christ.
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Post by guesst on Aug 15, 2005 22:30:21 GMT -5
what is awesome? I statnd in awe at the way the Gospel message is spread over the world regardless of denomination. I stand in awe of the ineffectiveness the workers are in reaching and bringing people to Christ. We came out of couple of the worldly denominations, and they sure like to teach their own commandments to the people. Can you name one that preaches only from the bible?
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Post by Guest on Aug 15, 2005 23:08:54 GMT -5
I wonder what would happen if all of the energy used here were to be focused at finding the areas we all agree regarding Christ and then sort out what specifically we disagree. That is what can we find that supports Christ as the head of the body of Christ-ie. the church and who can be a member of that body?
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Post by geo on May 23, 2006 21:22:37 GMT -5
I agree with curious George.
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Post by prue on May 24, 2006 6:24:06 GMT -5
Selah, you are totally wrong. You wrote "The f&w recognize a leader over certain areas...like an overseer, right? Most of the churches I'm familiar with do not elect one person as an earthly leader. They recognize Jesus as their leader and Master, and recognize the pastoral, teaching, evangelistic and prophetic gifts within the body of believers."
Selah, whatever church you belong to, assuming it is mainstream, is directed by a man or group of men. It may even have its own parliament, complete with upper and lower houses. It will vote on issues of doctrine, ie condoms, Iraq, African aid, women priests etc. It reference will be its creed, its constitution and its traditions. Were you once a part of my faith Selah? How much of this nonsense and carry-on would you have seen?
An example. The issue of women priests or ministers is taken quite simply in my faith - they were in the bible, so they are with us now. No cardinals decide this, no vote of the Anglican senate, no new doctrine coming from any emergent factional group etc etc You say these churches accept Jesus as their leader - and each one of them is different, as if there are 4,000 Jesus'. And it seemed that for 2,000 these people, all led by Jesus, didn't want preaching women? Strange that you say that when you see the doctrines coming out of these vulgar and apostate churches - utterly no foundation in anything Jesus ever said or did. If you don't know about them, just listen in sometimes as they speak of the earth - as John put it, the earth hears them.
So I have a question for you Selah. It speaks of false religion in Revelation. If I recall, it says its money and empires will vanish, there will no longer be the lighted candle, or the voice of the bride and the bridegroom. Can you see that in the modern church? If not, pray tell, what is this portion of scripture referring to?
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Post by leaders on May 24, 2006 6:38:28 GMT -5
If there is a problem, you might go to the elder. If not, you go to the senior worker. If that doesn't work, then you go to the state/provincial/local overseer. If that doesn't work, then you go to the regional overseer. If that doesn't work, then you go to the "final voice" for your area (which might be the regional overseer).
Yes, the workers voted about 100 years ago that their leadership should be as such.
Before the holier-than-thou clear their throats, yes I am aware that we can take our problems to God.
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Post by prue on May 24, 2006 6:53:09 GMT -5
To leaders, you wrote 'If there is a problem, you might go to the elder..." and gave us a list.
Thanks for that. In the NT about when people had issues they did it a bit differently.
For instnace, if that issue is another person, you first must approach that person, if that doesn't work then you draw in other witnesses, After that I suppose you would work through your list...
But - that is something different to what Selah was saying about doctrine. Doctrine is very clear in that it was lived out - and there is little argument about how it was lived.
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Post by reply on May 24, 2006 6:58:05 GMT -5
But - that is something different to what Selah was saying about doctrine. Doctrine is very clear in that it was lived out - and there is little argument about how it was lived. Did Selah mention doctrine?
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Post by prue on May 24, 2006 7:17:14 GMT -5
To reply, you wrote "Did Selah mention doctrine?"
Selah said the churches, "... recognize Jesus as their leader and Master, and recognize the pastoral, teaching, evangelistic and prophetic gifts within the body of believers."
This is doctrine as I see it. Jesus is 'leader and Master.' Only, he isn't, wasn't and never willl be with these apostate churches.
To be a 'leader' means you follow, ie what he does, you do. His works are your works. To be a Master means you obey, ie his commandments. His rules are your rules.
This is where the true uniqueness of Truth comes from.
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Post by Poor lost soul on May 24, 2006 7:38:54 GMT -5
Prue, it is hard for you to kick against the pricks.
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