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Post by snow on Aug 15, 2013 15:27:34 GMT -5
The psychological and emotional harm from both is what really harms children. To say that one instance of CSA is more damaging for a child then 17 years of physical abuse might not be entirely accurate. The damage to the psyche of a child is pretty intense from that too. I don't really see a need to look at one as more or less damaging then the other. Children don't differentiate types of pain like adults do when it comes to emotional. They just know it hurts and it's adults that put more emphasis on other things imo. There are a wide range of activities that are classified as sexual abuse just as their are a wide range of things that are classified as physical abuse. That's very true. I used to do childhood histories on convicted criminals that were ordered to undergo psychiatric counselling and assessment. After you've done that you never see a 'criminal' in the same light again. There were a few histories that I just sat there and cried when I read them. Horrendous things kids had to endure. I sometimes wondered how that person turned out as good as they had even given their conviction!
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Post by fixit on Aug 21, 2013 5:01:37 GMT -5
WINGS has some useful links to resources for parents that include physical abuse: Parent Resources
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 8:08:47 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by Done4now on Sept 10, 2013 8:16:43 GMT -5
When I was a child, physical abuse was quite common. I was regularly starved until I was too weak to walk, locked in a small dark closet for days at a time, beaten regularly with whatever object my mother could heft, and emotionally, verbally and mentally demeaned constantly. The people who think that you just happily move on from physical abuse have obviously never experienced it--I remember every single day of my life. And there are permanent scars. Funny thing about physical abuse--people don't want to believe it happens in the group. They actually are not nearly as supportive of my story as the people I know who were sexually abused. So when I tell people about my childhood--I often have people argue with me--saying stupid things like--"oh that couldn't have happened".
And I suspect it continues to this day (in levels about like in the surrounding communities). I believe I have mentioned before that my professing sister has had TWO babies die under mysterious circumstances in the past ten years (investigators wrote the deaths off as crib death--but were suspicious of her in both cases).
The reason people don't care much about this is 1) most professing people don't want to hear anything negative about their group and 2) the exes for the most part want to promote stuff that tarnishes the workers. Since physical abuse is usually within the family and doesn't involve the workers--it doesn't fit anyone's agenda. So it must not occur. (an obvious myth). Believe me, it is also a myth that people just waltz on with their lives after living through a hell like I did. The trauma never goes away, it is in my head 24-7.
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Post by Done4now on Sept 10, 2013 8:17:49 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more.
I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it.
In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited.
Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out.
It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working.
If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off.
As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 8:34:04 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more. I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it. In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited. Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out. It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working. If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off. As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time. Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken.
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Post by Done4now on Sept 10, 2013 8:45:59 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more. I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it. In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited. Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out. It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working. If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off. As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time. Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken. not at all. In my experience all abusers do their best to cover their tracks with varying degrees of success. However, I think an abuser who is a family member has a large advantage over one who is not a family member--because they have a great deal of control over the child. A worker is not going to be able to keep a child locked in their room for a couple weeks until the latest bruises fade. A parent can easily do this--all it takes is a dishonest note to the school lying that the child is ill. Workers don't control the total environment of their victim, from what I have observed this may mean they are more likely to eventually get caught than an abuser who has complete control over their victim.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 9:10:09 GMT -5
Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken. not at all. In my experience all abusers do their best to cover their tracks with varying degrees of success. However, I think an abuser who is a family member has a large advantage over one who is not a family member--because they have a great deal of control over the child. A worker is not going to be able to keep a child locked in their room for a couple weeks until the latest bruises fade. A parent can easily do this--all it takes is a dishonest note to the school lying that the child is ill. Workers don't control the total environment of their victim, from what I have observed this may mean they are more likely to eventually get caught than an abuser who has complete control over their victim. True. Parent abusers (physical or otherwise) have more control of the environment than non-parental abusers, including more power over the child to keep them from talking about it. After all, the child is totally dependent on the parents until some time into the teen years.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 9:27:19 GMT -5
Many thanks CKirkham. I'm hoping this thread will act as a collation point for accounts and experiences/advice such as you have provided.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2013 16:39:56 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more. I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it. In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited. Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out. It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working. If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off. As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time. I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 16:49:06 GMT -5
I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.
Another thing that happens is that child victims blame themselves for what is happening to them. Also they can be very protective of the image of their parents and will create fictitious stories about how they came by injuries in order to hide the truth. Sometimes they they will justify their parents' actions by exaggerating any misbehaviour which led to the abuse, making out they deserved it.
No wonder they get screwed up long term!
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2013 17:23:28 GMT -5
I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.Another thing that happens is that child victims blame themselves for what is happening to them. Also they can be very protective of the image of their parents and will create fictitious stories about how they came by injuries in order to hide the truth. Sometimes they they will justify their parents' actions by exaggerating any misbehaviour which led to the abuse, making out they deserved it. No wonder they get screwed up long term! Yes Ram, that's very true. I was so ashamed of the bruises and cuts that I would tell people lies about how I got them. I thought I was such a bad kid and I was ashamed of that. I truly thought it meant I wasn't loved as much as other children because they didn't get people angry like I did. I was unlovable. I thought it was something in ME that brought out that kind of anger in others. I carried that belief for years and when I became an object of domestic abuse with my first husband it seemed to confirm it for me. I truly felt that there was something about me that brought the worst out in people, especially men. I still have that thought first and only after repeating what I have learned can I see it in a different light. In a time of crisis though I instantly revert back to that type of negative thinking about myself. I feel like everyone else has more worth and rights than me and that I am a bad person who no one in their right mind could ever like. It is a struggle always to feel worthy of friendship or love. I have to really fight those old ingrained mindsets that come from those years. Physical abuse can scar without it being apparent on the skin, though I have some of those too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 17:47:47 GMT -5
I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.Another thing that happens is that child victims blame themselves for what is happening to them. Also they can be very protective of the image of their parents and will create fictitious stories about how they came by injuries in order to hide the truth. Sometimes they they will justify their parents' actions by exaggerating any misbehaviour which led to the abuse, making out they deserved it. No wonder they get screwed up long term! Yes Ram, that's very true. I was so ashamed of the bruises and cuts that I would tell people lies about how I got them. I thought I was such a bad kid and I was ashamed of that. I truly thought it meant I wasn't loved as much as other children because they didn't get people angry like I did. I was unlovable. I thought it was something in ME that brought out that kind of anger in others. I carried that belief for years and when I became an object of domestic abuse with my first husband it seemed to confirm it for me. I truly felt that there was something about me that brought the worst out in people, especially men. I still have that thought first and only after repeating what I have learned can I see it in a different light. In a time of crisis though I instantly revert back to that type of negative thinking about myself. I feel like everyone else has more worth and rights than me and that I am a bad person who no one in their right mind could ever like. It is a struggle always to feel worthy of friendship or love. I have to really fight those old ingrained mindsets that come from those years. Physical abuse can scar without it being apparent on the skin, though I have some of those too. Well you ARE worthy of friendship AND love! How you feel is NOT your fault. You have had a very unfortunate background which is responsible for all your insecurity and confusion. You were a victim who has survived, albeit with mental scars and some physical ones. I have no doubt that through this board and by other means you are a major help to others through your honesty and courage. Children who are brought up not knowing much about parental affection or are suffering abuse, often behave in annoying ways trying to attract attention due to their lack of their needs being met. They provoke chastisement rather than receive understanding or their needs being met. They also attract bullying. This can go on well into adulthood. Lack of confidence and self-esteem bring their own problems.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2013 19:15:51 GMT -5
Yes Ram, that's very true. I was so ashamed of the bruises and cuts that I would tell people lies about how I got them. I thought I was such a bad kid and I was ashamed of that. I truly thought it meant I wasn't loved as much as other children because they didn't get people angry like I did. I was unlovable. I thought it was something in ME that brought out that kind of anger in others. I carried that belief for years and when I became an object of domestic abuse with my first husband it seemed to confirm it for me. I truly felt that there was something about me that brought the worst out in people, especially men. I still have that thought first and only after repeating what I have learned can I see it in a different light. In a time of crisis though I instantly revert back to that type of negative thinking about myself. I feel like everyone else has more worth and rights than me and that I am a bad person who no one in their right mind could ever like. It is a struggle always to feel worthy of friendship or love. I have to really fight those old ingrained mindsets that come from those years. Physical abuse can scar without it being apparent on the skin, though I have some of those too. Well you ARE worthy of friendship AND love! How you feel is NOT your fault. You have had a very unfortunate background which is responsible for all your insecurity and confusion. You were a victim who has survived, albeit with mental scars and some physical ones. I have no doubt that through this board and by other means you are a major help to others through your honesty and courage. Children who are brought up not knowing much about parental affection or are suffering abuse, often behave in annoying ways trying to attract attention due to their lack of their needs being met. They provoke chastisement rather than receive understanding or their needs being met. They also attract bullying. This can go on well into adulthood. Lack of confidence and self-esteem bring their own problems. Thanks Ram, I am fortunate to have been able to work through a lot of it and to come to terms with most of it. Also, something I am forever grateful for was my relationship with my parents got much better later in life. I was never able to completely get too close to my dad, but my mom and I did manage to repair our relationship. She acknowledged what happened towards the end and apologized which also helped heal a lot of things because earlier in life she denied what had happened when I talked to them. So I feel quite blessed really. I now have a husband and family that let me know daily that they love me and I cherish them so much. They are directly responsible for my ability to heal. For many years I was afraid to love because it always had meant emotional or physical pain. I understand what theolegranni means about finding a partner that is conducive to that healing. We are so lucky in that sense.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 3:14:57 GMT -5
Well you ARE worthy of friendship AND love! How you feel is NOT your fault. You have had a very unfortunate background which is responsible for all your insecurity and confusion. You were a victim who has survived, albeit with mental scars and some physical ones. I have no doubt that through this board and by other means you are a major help to others through your honesty and courage. Children who are brought up not knowing much about parental affection or are suffering abuse, often behave in annoying ways trying to attract attention due to their lack of their needs being met. They provoke chastisement rather than receive understanding or their needs being met. They also attract bullying. This can go on well into adulthood. Lack of confidence and self-esteem bring their own problems. Thanks Ram, I am fortunate to have been able to work through a lot of it and to come to terms with most of it. Also, something I am forever grateful for was my relationship with my parents got much better later in life. I was never able to completely get too close to my dad, but my mom and I did manage to repair our relationship. She acknowledged what happened towards the end and apologized which also helped heal a lot of things because earlier in life she denied what had happened when I talked to them. So I feel quite blessed really. I now have a husband and family that let me know daily that they love me and I cherish them so much. They are directly responsible for my ability to heal. For many years I was afraid to love because it always had meant emotional or physical pain. I understand what theolegranni means about finding a partner that is conducive to that healing. We are so lucky in that sense. I am really glad for you (and theolegranni)that things eventually worked out fine. Your experiences show that people should never give up hope of things improving. What you are sharing may be encouragement for others. I'm sure that by sharing your experiences you will receive further relief from the lasting scars? Tell your husband and family that I really appreciate all they have done to turn things around for you. Their love for you and correct attitude is far better than any medication, etc.
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Post by snow on Sept 11, 2013 11:24:17 GMT -5
Thanks Ram, I am fortunate to have been able to work through a lot of it and to come to terms with most of it. Also, something I am forever grateful for was my relationship with my parents got much better later in life. I was never able to completely get too close to my dad, but my mom and I did manage to repair our relationship. She acknowledged what happened towards the end and apologized which also helped heal a lot of things because earlier in life she denied what had happened when I talked to them. So I feel quite blessed really. I now have a husband and family that let me know daily that they love me and I cherish them so much. They are directly responsible for my ability to heal. For many years I was afraid to love because it always had meant emotional or physical pain. I understand what theolegranni means about finding a partner that is conducive to that healing. We are so lucky in that sense. I am really glad for you (and theolegranni)that things eventually worked out fine. Your experiences show that people should never give up hope of things improving. What you are sharing may be encouragement for others. I'm sure that by sharing your experiences you will receive further relief from the lasting scars? Tell your husband and family that I really appreciate all they have done to turn things around for you. Their love for you and correct attitude is far better than any medication, etc. Yes, meds just mask the pain, they don't cure it. However, they are a good thing to have until you have healed a little. I feel so bad for kids that feel so helpless they take their own lives. I came close in the last couple of years living at home. Teens seem to have a very limited ability to see much beyond the 'present' and tend to not realize how much things can change. It really looked like nothing would ever get better at one point in my life. I am so glad for friends that got me through those last years. I have been blessed with amazing friends also. I have tried to 'give back' to the community by working on the distress lines, volunteering for the Women's Sexual Abuse Centre etc. It's hard sometimes because their circumstances trigger me and take me back. However, it also allows ME to heal because I need to put their crisis in priority to my feelings. Working the Kids distress line was the hardest one I ever did. I don't do that anymore. At the time it too challenging. Maybe I could do it now because I have progressed and healed a lot more than I was at then. There is always hope but that is something I learned by getting older!
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theolegranni
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THANK YOU for allowing me to resume my old name... It is DEAR to me... Thanks again. theolegranni
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Post by theolegranni on Sept 12, 2013 20:09:28 GMT -5
Hello to all:::: I thought I would add my 2cents worth on this thread at this point........ I was extremely fortunate over the years, to be able to "intellectualize" my issues... Seems that I was able to deal with my issues in my intellectual being.. BUT the counselor ( counselor was NOT in the 2x2"s) mentioned that I might need to deal with those issues on an "emotional level"..... I was perfectly clear that "intellectualizing" ... was NOT the best. BUT it seems over the years, since the death of my dad and mother, I have been very fortunate to be able to totally "let go" of all the issues that were hiding in the background. My emotional being is NOT always up front... I do have to spend some time to force my emotion into the fray....... Because it is best for my emotional being....it is best for my emotions to be taken to task related to the REAL TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND IT IS BEST FOR ME!!
My "emotional self" was finally able to investigate and to totally forgive BOTH of my parents. I totally believed that each of them did the "best that they could"..... Neither of them fully understood the impact of physical abuse.They did not fully realize the impact that physical abuse would make on their young lives, and on their psych. One or the other of them believed that "sparing the rod and spoiling the child" was what was expected of both of them...AND believe it or not, I have come to realize that my parents desperately wanted me to be a true Child of God..... Both of them had come to believe that the "2x2"s" were the total example of what was needed for me...According to them, I was a "difficult" child..... Which ended up being just fine with me...My personality really did LOVE being difficult!!!!!!!
I NOW fully understand that the Creator WANTED ME TO BE DIFFICULT"!!!!!!!!!! HE wanted me to use my brain, and to use, HIS GOD given talents of searching for the truth, investigating the issues, looking and looking for TRUE information...HE wanted me to be fully OPEN and accepting of suggestions. My sibling brother had been MUCH easier to handle than I was, and my parents made that clear over the years. AND FOR YEARS and years I worshiped him, INSTEAD OF WORSHIPING GOD............(not a good idea.)
AND now, I fully understand my mistakes and my failure to really worship the SAVIOR, and not a human being. I spent an entire convention in Boring Oregon, in 2006 crying, crying and crying some more, when I realized that the LORD loved me, just as much as HE loved my responsible, caring, and honorary sibling brother. THAT realization FREED me from the group... It forced me to think and to pray about my situation and to THANK THE LORD for HIS intervention into my life. It required me to think CLEARLY and independently about our LORD and his SON JESUS. AND how that this independence would help me truly SEEK HIM and HIS SON!!!!!
ANY kind of abuse, is so wrong,,and it forces suffering on to individuals that may or may not have the ability to deal with it... THOSE of us that might be watching, or viewing, or investigating their abuse, DESPERATELY may need to intercede in their situation....THOSE of us that fully KNOW the difference and the need that others may have, REALLY must intervene IF WE CAN. WE really all need to pray and pray long and hard, in order to help those folks.... WE can not guess that they need us to pray for them, THEY DO NEED US TO PRAY for them.....
I have found that it is the best for those of us, physically, emotionally, and religiously abused. to CLOSELY investigate what "works" for each of us... NOT all plans, or processes, or interventions work for each of us... The abuse that we suffered requires each of us to evaluate, and closely inspect JUST what is necessary for ourselves to do. IT requires a lot of praying and investigations into our lives, to help us to REALLY come to LOVE our LORD and our Savior.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 21:01:28 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more. I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it. In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited. Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out. It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working. If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off. As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time. Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken. Ckirkham's story is heartbreaking, and I can't imagine anyone being subjected to that. You'd like to think somebody somewhere wondered and did something--they didn't obviously, but his sharing helps others at least know what to keep an eye out for should they see this pattern of children 'too sick too often' or 'too covered up' for the weather. I wouldn't have thought of looking for this pattern previously.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 21:23:10 GMT -5
Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken. Ckirkham's story is heartbreaking, and I can't imagine anyone being subjected to that. You'd like to think somebody somewhere wondered and did something--they didn't obviously, but his sharing helps others at least know what to keep an eye out for should they see this pattern of children 'too sick too often' or 'too covered up' for the weather. I wouldn't have thought of looking for this pattern previously. One of the problems with an environment where physical abuse (up to some vague line) is accepted as "discipline", it is not surprising that no one would raise the issue prior to the 1990's or even earlier. From the parental point of view, they felt completely justified.....ckirkham was merely being disciplined. That's one of primary reasons why I advocate zero tolerance for physical punishment. The line is zero, which is an easy standard for anyone to see as it takes no judgment. Society has come to a zero tolerance level for CSA. No one can now say "oh it was just a little touch-up". We haven't yet come that far for physical abuse but we are getting very close.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 4:49:45 GMT -5
Zero tolerances were a big thing over here a few years back for many things. It was a fashionable concept and a great sound bite. It got the message across. However, in day to day working it sometimes proves inappropriate and does not help to solve many issues.
Firstly, a child needs the love of its parents for his or her development and security. If a child does not get this the chances are that it will misbehave more than normal, along with other problems. Therefore a child who is loved and given appropriate attention by its parents should in theory require less disciplining by its parents. A parent therefore has no right to discipline its child by "whatever means" be it physical or otherwise if the parent is not showing love and giving attention to their child. Child discipline starts with Parental discipline. That will cut down a high percentage of child misbehaviour and subsequent disciplining (all kinds).
However, all children need disciplining at times for their own guidance, learning and correction. In the past the slipper or the belt were often the norm for exercising discipline. Much of "normal" child physical discipline in the past, although believed to be correct, was in fact child physical abuse. The more a child misbehaved, the more the level of physical discipline was upped. It was to a great extent a societal norm, and expected at that. This whole background has coloured the whole area of child physical discipline and it is difficult for many people, often based upon personal experiences, to view child physical discipline as anything other than in levels which quite rightly constitute child physical abuse.
In my experiences I have come conclude that due to the varying standards and variety of family life that on occasion child physical discipline is necessary with many families. However, parents need to be educated about where child discipline starts, i.e. with love and attention for the child, potential types of discipline for the child and the legal limits of child physical chastisement. It is not for me to tell a parent how or by what means to discipline their children, other than to stress that any discipline (whatever kind) should not encroach into any of the categories of abuse.
I think it would be foolish to make a claim that on every occasion it is not necessary for a parent to use child physical chastisement on a child. Therefore they need to know their own responsibilities towards the child and also the legally permitted levels of physical chastisement, which incidentally are not high! Also, we have to take into account the varying abilities of parents. It would be wrong to criminalise or otherwise make certain parents outcasts when these parents may be in need of support and guidance. This is the type of scenario where projecting the concept of "zero tolerance" is not appropriate.
I have stated in the past that I do not like the idea of child physical chastisement, but I have yet to be convinced that it is completely unnecessary, at least in many cases and on many occasions. There are many studies out there which support child physical chastisement carried out within legal limits. This subject is very much a divided issue, too divided to be advocated exclusively one way or the other.
FWIW I raised one son and one daughter. During my son's last visit I asked him if I had ever smacked him as a child (I wouldn't even think about it now" He is 6' tall and is a strong soldier!) He instantly and impudently replied "NO! I didn't need it!" so keen he was to portray himself as having been the perfect child. On one occasion I found it necessary to physically chastise my daughter. I used the flat of my hand on her (clothed) backside. I regretted ever having done that. The main reason was that I went OTT, although she was in no way marked or anything like that.
Since then this matter has cropped up several times over the years in conversations between us. I have told her how much I regretted doing it, but she flatly rejects my apologising, stating that she needed it and is very glad it happened. It made her realise that what she was doing and I can honestly say she loves me all the more for having done it.
Child physical chastisement should never be excessive nor should it become habitual. A last option certainly, but sometimes a person's last option may in fact on some occasions be their only option.
This is not so much a matter of judging the rights or wrongs of the issue, but one of applying good all round common sense.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 8:18:43 GMT -5
Zero tolerances were a big thing over here a few years back for many things. It was a fashionable concept and a great sound bite. It got the message across. However, in day to day working it sometimes proves inappropriate and does not help to solve many issues. Firstly, a child needs the love of its parents for his or her development and security. If a child does not get this the chances are that it will misbehave more than normal, along with other problems. Therefore a child who is loved and given appropriate attention by its parents should in theory require less disciplining by its parents. A parent therefore has no right to discipline its child by "whatever means" be it physical or otherwise if the parent is not showing love and giving attention to their child. Child discipline starts with Parental discipline. That will cut down a high percentage of child misbehaviour and subsequent disciplining (all kinds). However, all children need disciplining at times for their own guidance, learning and correction. In the past the slipper or the belt were often the norm for exercising discipline. Much of "normal" child physical discipline in the past, although believed to be correct, was in fact child physical abuse. The more a child misbehaved, the more the level of physical discipline was upped. It was to a great extent a societal norm, and expected at that. This whole background has coloured the whole area of child physical discipline and it is difficult for many people, often based upon personal experiences, to view child physical discipline as anything other than in levels which quite rightly constitute child physical abuse. In my experiences I have come conclude that due to the varying standards and variety of family life that on occasion child physical discipline is necessary with many families. However, parents need to be educated about where child discipline starts, i.e. with love and attention for the child, potential types of discipline for the child and the legal limits of child physical chastisement. It is not for me to tell a parent how or by what means to discipline their children, other than to stress that any discipline (whatever kind) should not encroach into any of the categories of abuse. I think it would be foolish to make a claim that on every occasion it is not necessary for a parent to use child physical chastisement on a child. Therefore they need to know their own responsibilities towards the child and also the legally permitted levels of physical chastisement, which incidentally are not high! Also, we have to take into account the varying abilities of parents. It would be wrong to criminalise or otherwise make certain parents outcasts when these parents may be in need of support and guidance. This is the type of scenario where projecting the concept of "zero tolerance" is not appropriate. I have stated in the past that I do not like the idea of child physical chastisement, but I have yet to be convinced that it is completely unnecessary, at least in many cases and on many occasions. There are many studies out there which support child physical chastisement carried out within legal limits. This subject is very much a divided issue, too divided to be advocated exclusively one way or the other. FWIW I raised one son and one daughter. During my son's last visit I asked him if I had ever smacked him as a child (I wouldn't even think about it now" He is 6' tall and is a strong soldier!) He instantly and impudently replied "NO! I didn't need it!" so keen he was to portray himself as having been the perfect child. On one occasion I found it necessary to physically chastise my daughter. I used the flat of my hand on her (clothed) backside. I regretted ever having done that. The main reason was that I went OTT, although she was in no way marked or anything like that. Since then this matter has cropped up several times over the years in conversations between us. I have told her how much I regretted doing it, but she flatly rejects my apologising, stating that she needed it and is very glad it happened. It made her realise that what she was doing and I can honestly say she loves me all the more for having done it. Child physical chastisement should never be excessive nor should it become habitual. A last option certainly, but sometimes a person's last option may in fact on some occasions be their only option. This is not so much a matter of judging the rights or wrongs of the issue, but one of applying good all round common sense. Just look at how much common sense was applied to help ckirkham. None. No one helped him even though I expect many people saw it or suspected it. Zero hitting is something literally everyone can understand, no common sense needed. The fact that you regretted spanking (an excellent reaction btw) your daughter is proof positive that you know deep down that there were other, non-violent (physically or emotionally) ways to discipline the child. Just because your child appears to give you permission to do it should in no way be considered justification. One problem with saying "it's ok as a last resort" and adding a bunch of rules on how much is too much, it opens the door for abusers to make it their first resort, call it their last resort, and excessively hurt a child while calling it "just a tap". The problem though is this: it is never necessary, even as a last resort. There is always other ways to discipline. The genesis of abusive adults always starts somewhere.....and that somewhere is at home as a child. As soon their role model applies emotional or physical violence to resolve a problem, the child now has permission to do the same to others. They learn violence at a very young age in some families and it becomes a part of them as adults......even if those taps on the backside are non-bruising.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 13, 2013 9:08:53 GMT -5
Thanks for that Chris. Are you suggesting that CSA abusers do not try to hide the evidence? Or that they don't try as hard to hide it as physical abusers? The real evidence is in the testimony of victims such as yourself. This thread is intended to encourage such victims to come forward. The purpose is this: if systemic physical abuse is currently present among f&ws, then some level of action needs to be taken. Ckirkham's story is heartbreaking, and I can't imagine anyone being subjected to that. You'd like to think somebody somewhere wondered and did something--they didn't obviously, but his sharing helps others at least know what to keep an eye out for should they see this pattern of children 'too sick too often' or 'too covered up' for the weather. I wouldn't have thought of looking for this pattern previously. Hberry! I'm sure that it is a shock to you that it can get as bad as what Clirkham suffered and for some lucky reason he lived through it....now as he spoke about some nieces/nephews dying young, this is what often happens and when I think about all that Clirkham Has suffered and lived through....there has to be a greater reason for his living. For certainly would not a loving God, remove him from such a thing? I hope so and I suppose now I've set Rat off.....lah! But I think to have Hberry's testimony of NO cruel punishment from her parents and then having the account of Clirkham's horrors of punishment from parents, we can see exactly how far off, parents can get!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 10:06:33 GMT -5
Zero tolerances were a big thing over here a few years back for many things. It was a fashionable concept and a great sound bite. It got the message across. However, in day to day working it sometimes proves inappropriate and does not help to solve many issues. Firstly, a child needs the love of its parents for his or her development and security. If a child does not get this the chances are that it will misbehave more than normal, along with other problems. Therefore a child who is loved and given appropriate attention by its parents should in theory require less disciplining by its parents. A parent therefore has no right to discipline its child by "whatever means" be it physical or otherwise if the parent is not showing love and giving attention to their child. Child discipline starts with Parental discipline. That will cut down a high percentage of child misbehaviour and subsequent disciplining (all kinds). However, all children need disciplining at times for their own guidance, learning and correction. In the past the slipper or the belt were often the norm for exercising discipline. Much of "normal" child physical discipline in the past, although believed to be correct, was in fact child physical abuse. The more a child misbehaved, the more the level of physical discipline was upped. It was to a great extent a societal norm, and expected at that. This whole background has coloured the whole area of child physical discipline and it is difficult for many people, often based upon personal experiences, to view child physical discipline as anything other than in levels which quite rightly constitute child physical abuse. In my experiences I have come conclude that due to the varying standards and variety of family life that on occasion child physical discipline is necessary with many families. However, parents need to be educated about where child discipline starts, i.e. with love and attention for the child, potential types of discipline for the child and the legal limits of child physical chastisement. It is not for me to tell a parent how or by what means to discipline their children, other than to stress that any discipline (whatever kind) should not encroach into any of the categories of abuse. I think it would be foolish to make a claim that on every occasion it is not necessary for a parent to use child physical chastisement on a child. Therefore they need to know their own responsibilities towards the child and also the legally permitted levels of physical chastisement, which incidentally are not high! Also, we have to take into account the varying abilities of parents. It would be wrong to criminalise or otherwise make certain parents outcasts when these parents may be in need of support and guidance. This is the type of scenario where projecting the concept of "zero tolerance" is not appropriate. I have stated in the past that I do not like the idea of child physical chastisement, but I have yet to be convinced that it is completely unnecessary, at least in many cases and on many occasions. There are many studies out there which support child physical chastisement carried out within legal limits. This subject is very much a divided issue, too divided to be advocated exclusively one way or the other. FWIW I raised one son and one daughter. During my son's last visit I asked him if I had ever smacked him as a child (I wouldn't even think about it now" He is 6' tall and is a strong soldier!) He instantly and impudently replied "NO! I didn't need it!" so keen he was to portray himself as having been the perfect child. On one occasion I found it necessary to physically chastise my daughter. I used the flat of my hand on her (clothed) backside. I regretted ever having done that. The main reason was that I went OTT, although she was in no way marked or anything like that. Since then this matter has cropped up several times over the years in conversations between us. I have told her how much I regretted doing it, but she flatly rejects my apologising, stating that she needed it and is very glad it happened. It made her realise that what she was doing and I can honestly say she loves me all the more for having done it. Child physical chastisement should never be excessive nor should it become habitual. A last option certainly, but sometimes a person's last option may in fact on some occasions be their only option. This is not so much a matter of judging the rights or wrongs of the issue, but one of applying good all round common sense. Just look at how much common sense was applied to help ckirkham. None. No one helped him even though I expect many people saw it or suspected it. Zero hitting is something literally everyone can understand, no common sense needed. That's why proper education is needed. In the past parents had a free reign to do what they liked. Didn't I say that child discipline, whatever form it takes, must begin with the parent first showing love to their children, which is a large part of "parental" discipline. Try and keep my remarks within the context of what I have said instead of extracting portions for alarmist portrayal!The fact that you regretted spanking (an excellent reaction btw) your daughter is proof positive that you know deep down that there were other, non-violent (physically or emotionally) ways to discipline the child. Just because your child appears to give you permission to do it should in no way be considered justification. No cd. You miread the situation. At that particular point all other efforts had failed. I know the circumstances. My daughter does as well. She has just visited me and as a result of my earlier post I mentioned it to her. You know what her reaction was? "Best thing that ever happened to me" followed by a loving hug!. Child physical chastisement (not abuse) will ALWAYS hurt a parent more than the child. It all starts with love. Now that's a beautiful context for whatever form of acceptable chastisement is used!
One problem with saying "it's ok as a last resort" and adding a bunch of rules on how much is too much, it opens the door for abusers to make it their first resort, call it their last resort, and excessively hurt a child while calling it "just a tap". The problem though is this: it is never necessary, even as a last resort. There is always other ways to discipline. This type of over-reaction to what I posted is exactly why people need to be educated and realise the boundaries. As for never being necessary is absolute garbage on many occasions. I prefer to listen to "balanced" opinions (i.e. for and against the issue) which are clearly divided, many of which are researched and compiled by authorities far greater than you or I and who have real experience in these matters. Criminalising parents for matters currently well within the law will only lead to greater problems, many of which will remain behind closed doors, the very doors we are striving to open.The genesis of abusive adults always starts somewhere.....and that somewhere is at home as a child. As soon their role model applies emotional or physical violence to resolve a problem, the child now has permission to do the same to others. They learn violence at a very young age in some families and it becomes a part of them as adults......even if those taps on the backside are non-bruising. Again we have exaggerated terms to try and raise legally accepted matters into the sphere of illegal ones. Go and consult a dictionary to see what the term "violence" actually means before you use it again! Don't be fooled by the violence breeds violence line. Yes that happens I am sure. However we need not look any further than this thread to see that on many occasions it actually breeds the opposite. Many people who have had physically abusive (not physical chastisement)experiences will not lay a finger on their children. In fact they may even be overly protective.
People need to learn the difference between acceptable levels of physical chastisement and its controlled use, from physical abuse. They can start by getting a proper understanding of words like "violence!" The trouble is peoples' views are often skewed because of words like violence. They imagine very abusive acts and think these are what is being passed off as acceptable acts of chastisement. That's because that's what they have known from the past. Your use of the word and similar expressions blanket the reality of matters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 10:42:02 GMT -5
The definition of "violent" or "violence."
Violent: intensely forcible, impetuous and unrestrained in action: overmateringly vehement: due to violence, wrested; expressing violence.
Violence: the state or quality of being violent, excessive, unrestrained, or unjustifiable force; outrage, profanation, injury, rape.
The above clearly demonstrates that it is inappropriate to use the word "violent" or "violence" with regards to legally acceptable levels of child physical chastisement and can only be properly used in the realms of child physical abuse. People need to be educated to know there is a difference!
Anyone wanting to sensibly discuss matters of child physical chastisement and child physical abuse should learn to use appropriate terminology in each case. Using inappropriate terminology, especially in an attempt to lift the former into the realms of the latter only confuses the issue and as a result common sense becomes one of the first casualties.
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Post by faune on Sept 13, 2013 11:01:55 GMT -5
When I was a child, physical abuse was quite common. I was regularly starved until I was too weak to walk, locked in a small dark closet for days at a time, beaten regularly with whatever object my mother could heft, and emotionally, verbally and mentally demeaned constantly. The people who think that you just happily move on from physical abuse have obviously never experienced it--I remember every single day of my life. And there are permanent scars. Funny thing about physical abuse--people don't want to believe it happens in the group. They actually are not nearly as supportive of my story as the people I know who were sexually abused. So when I tell people about my childhood--I often have people argue with me--saying stupid things like--"oh that couldn't have happened". And I suspect it continues to this day (in levels about like in the surrounding communities). I believe I have mentioned before that my professing sister has had TWO babies die under mysterious circumstances in the past ten years (investigators wrote the deaths off as crib death--but were suspicious of her in both cases). The reason people don't care much about this is 1) most professing people don't want to hear anything negative about their group and 2) the exes for the most part want to promote stuff that tarnishes the workers. Since physical abuse is usually within the family and doesn't involve the workers--it doesn't fit anyone's agenda. So it must not occur. (an obvious myth). Believe me, it is also a myth that people just waltz on with their lives after living through a hell like I did. The trauma never goes away, it is in my head 24-7. Here's a story I just saw on the morning news about this type of abuse. The obituary went viral due to its content regarding the abuse that this mother unleashed on her children. abcnews.go.com/US/video/kids-shame-abusive-mom-scathing-obituary-20247566 www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/12/scathing-obituary-abuse-neglect/2805477/
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Post by faune on Sept 13, 2013 11:24:53 GMT -5
I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.Another thing that happens is that child victims blame themselves for what is happening to them. Also they can be very protective of the image of their parents and will create fictitious stories about how they came by injuries in order to hide the truth. Sometimes they they will justify their parents' actions by exaggerating any misbehaviour which led to the abuse, making out they deserved it. No wonder they get screwed up long term! Ram ~ Obviously the kids were more concerned for their parent's welfare than the parents were for the children? How sad to program a child to feel they are always at fault for the abuse they receive. For sure, that would be enough to really screw up their psyches. I agree with Snow that in our era of growing up, physical and emotional abuse was pretty common within families. However, with public awareness increasing along with the number of extreme cases hitting the fan, protective services started getting more involved. Although there has been some improvements made over the years in awareness, I feel there's still a lot that needs to be done to resolve this problem within society. Parents who are "loose cannons" and take it out on their children need professional help and perhaps some time behind bars for their abusiveness.
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Post by faune on Sept 13, 2013 11:49:36 GMT -5
Jul 30, 2013 at 4:33pm fixit said: Jul 30, 2013 at 4:07pm Clearday said: Find some criminal convictions. There are plenty of CSA criminal convictions so if these crimes are much greater, there must be many more. I would suggest to keep up the research. Keep bumping your CPA thread back to the top once in awhile. Set up a free web site somewhere, invite stories. Maybe something will emerge with a bit of patience and persistence. Bring it on! If there are in fact many more convictions and prison terms for physical abuse than CSA among friends and workers I'd be keen to know about it. In the mean time I'll start looking for broken bones, gaping wounds and bruises on kids in the church - especially after workers have visited. Are you serious? My family (like most--I suspect), was careful to hide the evidence. If anything showed--it had to be covered. If it couldn't be covered, then I stayed home "sick". For example, when I was young we lived for a couple years on an island in the Caribbean, a very hot and tropical place. I never was allowed to wear a pair of shorts (or swim trunks) no matter how hot it was (not at any time--even leisure in my own back yard). That is because there was constantly a network of whip marks on my legs, that needed to be hidden under HOT, long trousers. I still have those scars today...as well as others both inside and out. It would be a rare beating that would leave the kind of obvious damage you want to see, and a sloppy abuser who would let their victim out in public looking like that. If the damage couldn't be hidden, I was confined to my room until I was presentable. And yes--I missed about as much school as I attended. Fortunately I was fairly smart and hard working. If you want to spot the abused child, look for the one who involuntarily winces when his parent touches him. The one who seems afraid and nervous for no reason and has trouble looking people in the eye. The one who startles and shakes at sudden noises. If you are an educator--frequent lapses in attendance might be a tip-off.
As far as worker visits--our beatings came before (and sometimes during) never right after. When my mother was stressed out about the upcoming visit--running around cleaning and cooking and doing errands--that was when she was on the verge of sanity. After the workers left--it was a big sigh of relief for the entire family--as the stress of acting perfect for the workers was over. So after a worker visit was a comparatively good time. I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era. Snow ~ I agree, there definitely was abuse and harsh discipline during the times we grew up and perhaps that's why the laws eventually came into effect later on to protect the children within such home situations? Ckirkham brings out a good point of what to look for in an abused child as to a tip-off to abuse within the home. It's really deplorable that parents would resort to such behavior, which makes you wonder about " sociopaths" amongst us. I started a new thread on this very subject, due to the lack of conscience that some people demonstrate when it comes to the people within their circle of influence. professing.proboards.com/thread/21235/defines-psychopath-society
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5
I agree, families do keep it hidden. Mine was a mixture of physical and emotional. I have been told it doesn't happen much anymore and I hope it was just the times I grew up in. Society didn't seem too upset by harsh discipline of children like they do now. This thread is revealing that there certainly was abuse, at least in our era.Another thing that happens is that child victims blame themselves for what is happening to them. Also they can be very protective of the image of their parents and will create fictitious stories about how they came by injuries in order to hide the truth. Sometimes they they will justify their parents' actions by exaggerating any misbehaviour which led to the abuse, making out they deserved it. No wonder they get screwed up long term! Ram ~ Obviously the kids were more concerned for their parent's welfare than the parents were for the children? How sad to program a child to feel they are always at fault for the abuse they receive. For sure, that would be enough to really screw up their psyches. I agree with Snow that in our era of growing up, physical and emotional abuse was pretty common within families. However, with public awareness increasing along with the number of extreme cases hitting the fan, protective services started getting more involved. Although there has been some improvements made over the years in awareness, I feel there's still a lot that needs to be done to resolve this problem within society. Parents who are "loose cannons" and take it out on their children need professional help and perhaps some time behind bars for their abusiveness. Faune We are singing from the same hymn sheet. In previous generations physically chastising children was not only the norm, it was very often expected. It was classed as punishment rather than discipline and correction and seen as good parenting. Often it was habitual and the only course of chastisement considered. The level of a child's misbehaviour and regularity often upped the level of physical punishment, whereby it ceased to be chastisement and became abuse. Sadly much of this was accepted by society and that's one reason some find it difficult to separate non-violent child physical chastisement and child physical abuse which is "violent!" A huge protracted education programme needs to be initiated so that in general parents are well informed about the boundaries and responsibilities. Child discipline (all forms) commences with parental discipline which begins with the responsibility of loving their children and giving them what attention and support they can. Only then does a parent have a right to discipline their child by any acceptable means, because the very reason for a child's misbehaviour may in fact lie with one or both parents. Address any possible parental cause and then we can begin. This is not to make parents feel guilty about themselves, but to appreciate that having children, whether planned or unplanned, brings life changing focus and responsibilities. Many parents, particulary single parents, actually need support, rather than condemnation. Condemnation and criminalisation will only drive the problems further behind closed doors; the very doors that we need opened. Also there are many parents, especially from the lower end of society (but not exclusively)who will always be the type who will end up behind bars for various reasons. By "lower end of society" I am not referring to those who are less well off by reasons of finance etc., but those who are criminally inclined. Some of them actually teach their children to be violent! The remarks I made in my post three posts ago should be viewed and addressed within the overall context of that post, not having portions extracted and addressed outwith the context they were made. I apologise, because I should have made this clear at the time. Again, extreme terminology only serves to cloud the issue. As you have intellectually observed, there is a difference between non-violent child physical chastisement and child physical abuse. Using terms such as "violent" to describe child physical chastisement does not make child physical chastisement "violent." However, it does give the impression that it IS violent, which takes it way out of context. A great proportion of physical chastisement of children in the past generations was indeed excessive and physically abusive, but it was acceptable as just punishment of the child. Thankfully nowadays in most Western countries this type of thing is now socially unacceptable. There are good signs that this culture is producing very good results. However, this does not mean that the principle of child physical chastisement, recognised within the context of what the term actually means, should be thrown out. I have noticed a great divide over the issue of child physical chastisement which is for the correction and disciplining of a child, not punishment. Many adults who were subjected to child physical chastisement (not abuse) actually support the principle of CPC, even if they do not use it themselves. On the other hand, many who were subjected to physically abusive upbringings are against even legally acceptable child physical chastisement. Perhaps their experiences make it difficult to make a distinction between acceptable chastisement and abuse?
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