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Post by snow on Sept 13, 2013 20:42:30 GMT -5
I used to get some pretty bad 'whippings' and when I was older slaps across the face and other things I'd rather not go into. However, it made me the type of parent that didn't ever want to discipline through spankings. And I only broke that rule a couple of times in the beginning with my first child and then couldn't see the good in it and never did it again. I never had any problem with my children, even in their teens. I give them all the credit for that. They were leaders not followers so I'm sure that made a difference. I used to be amazed that they would come to me sometimes and tell me that they were invited to such and such an outing and they didn't want to go because they didn't think it would be a good thing to do. They would ask me to say they couldn't go so they had an excuse. So I don't agree that sparing the rod spoils the child. In my case it seems it made them trust me more and they felt comfortable telling me things and also they didn't feel they needed to act out or rebel because I was too strict with them. Sounds like you did a wonderful job raising your children. I like that. I never slapped. That just sounds too brutal. Sorry for the experiences you had. The rest of the story on my son was that he went quite wild until he was 24. I let him run his course and felt like he would settle down someday. I ran no interference during that time and got lots of grief from the rest of the family because of stepping back. He is now 32 and occasionally will call to say how sorry he is for those years. Of course we never stopped loving but love him even more now. Some kids need to do that it seems. I know I rebelled. I wasn't crazy wild or anything, but I needed to find my identity. It probably was partly due to the strict and controlling mindset of my parents and my own nature. I'm glad your relationship with him now is a good one. I love my kids and being part of their lives. I do give them the credit for how they were growing up. They were truly amazing! I agree, slapping is brutal. It isn't just a physical punishment but also an humiliation. |
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Post by rational on Sept 13, 2013 20:50:40 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a lot of resentment going on somewhere in your life. Yes, I resent adults hurting children as a means of teaching.I quoted the words exactly as you wrote them. And I did that so you could not say I took them out of context or misquoted what you said. And while I did not parse your text in the literal sense of the word, metaphorically I did examine your words closely, looking for their exact meaning and for the intention behind them. As to the spin you claim - where did I apply the wrong interpretation of what you wrote? The bottom line is that you, as the responsible adult, said you used pain as a teaching methodology on children. You even stated that your child deserved to be hurt. What is worse is that you used pain repeatedly even thought you said it was not effective. Truthfully, I do not expect that you will respond to the earlier post with anything more than you have and I do not expect to see you explain where I have applied any spin. |
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Post by rational on Sept 13, 2013 21:38:31 GMT -5
Actually my son's wild state had nothing to do with the way we raised him. How you can determine this? You are, in effect, saying that the way you raised your children had no effect on how they turned out.They certainly do. That is why it is so important that they be treated with respect as individuals.They were all raised in different environments. Your youngest was raised as a third child. Your eldest started life as an only child.How can you say this after saying that you whipped them for disobeying you?Of course you should provide guidance. But providing guidance and using pain as a teaching method are two very different things.Yes. People who spend a decade in a "wild" state frequently thank their parents for the guidance that got them to that experience.Well, a pat on the back, all the way around.You mean parents who believe that children deserve to be hurt? That inflict pain as a teaching method? That repeatedly give their child a "whipping" because the child did not obey? Oppressive like that?Keep saying this over and over.Oh, I don't think you feeling for them is causing them suffering. It is more likely something they experienced at the hands of their parents. |
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Post by christiansburg on Sept 14, 2013 8:44:30 GMT -5
Actually my son's wild state had nothing to do with the way we raised him. How you can determine this? You are, in effect, saying that the way you raised your children had no effect on how they turned out.They certainly do. That is why it is so important that they be treated with respect as individuals.They were all raised in different environments. Your youngest was raised as a third child. Your eldest started life as an only child.How can you say this after saying that you whipped them for disobeying you?Of course you should provide guidance. But providing guidance and using pain as a teaching method are two very different things.Yes. People who spend a decade in a "wild" state frequently thank their parents for the guidance that got them to that experience.Well, a pat on the back, all the way around.You mean parents who believe that children deserve to be hurt? That inflict pain as a teaching method? That repeatedly give their child a "whipping" because the child did not obey? Oppressive like that?Keep saying this over and over.Oh, I don't think you feeling for them is causing them suffering. It is more likely something they experienced at the hands of their parents. Very interesting. But you fantasize about your ability to understand people and events. You have an illusion about yourself that is very lacking in reality. Now go ahead and put some spin on this. I will say it again. You would have liked us as parents. I guarantee it. |
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Post by christiansburg on Sept 14, 2013 8:46:36 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a lot of resentment going on somewhere in your life. Yes, I resent adults hurting children as a means of teaching.I quoted the words exactly as you wrote them. And I did that so you could not say I took them out of context or misquoted what you said. And while I did not parse your text in the literal sense of the word, metaphorically I did examine your words closely, looking for their exact meaning and for the intention behind them. As to the spin you claim - where did I apply the wrong interpretation of what you wrote? The bottom line is that you, as the responsible adult, said you used pain as a teaching methodology on children. You even stated that your child deserved to be hurt. What is worse is that you used pain repeatedly even thought you said it was not effective. Truthfully, I do not expect that you will respond to the earlier post with anything more than you have and I do not expect to see you explain where I have applied any spin.[/quote Right on. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 9:07:38 GMT -5
I think the time has come for you to now say sorry for all the years you mistreated him. I know you meant well, but I have to say this: you abused him in your disciplinary methods. You were totally right though to step back when he was acting out. I will also suggest that your son's "wild" state had a strong connection to your discipline methods. It may not be the full cause and effect, but it will be a large part of it. In other words, his actions he feels sorry for in those years were a response to your (well intentioned) mistreatment of him. If you truly want to make your son whole, you need to first understand the error of your methods applied to him, and then honestly and wholeheartedly apologize to him. My guess is that deep down when he calls to apologize, he subconsciously wants your apology, not your forgiveness. My personal experience is almost identical to snow's. I did a few spankings on my first child and completely abandoned it very early on. My kids, again like snow's, were almost completely self-governing through their teen years and never gave us one minute (literally) of trouble. On the other hand, my own upbringing included spankings and fear (nothing out of the ordinary at the time), and I will admit that my late teens and early adulthood were nothing to be proud of. Yes, my loving parents abused me although mildly and unintentionally, but it was abuse nonetheless. I'm not complaining as my childhood was largely fantastic with a lot of freedom, but the disciplinary methodology of the times were damaging. Actually my son's wild state had nothing to do with the way we raised him. I believe children just react to things differently. We had two other children raised the same way and they never had the wild years. We just could tell early on he had a different nature. We never forced any of them to even attend meeting when thy became teenagers. We just felt we were not going to force our ideas on them. Of course you have to admit that as a parent you must provide guidance to a child. The "wild one" has thanked us many times for the way we raised him. I was amazed that he felt this way. So we have no apologies due and he knows that. We have seen some parents so oppressive with their children you would almost feel like stepping in to defend the child. You would have liked us as parents I guarantee it! I totally feel for both of you and I know you may still suffer because of that. There is a lot which can be discussed from your posts here. However, as long as you will not consider the possibility of your whippings as being complicit in your son's "wild" behaviour, then the discussion can't get productive. There were red flags all over your son's behaviour as a child (more than just a "different nature") and there are red flags in his behaviour today as he thanks you for your whippings and tells you that you were good parents. He continues to suffer today and his conversation is classic evidence of that. Your comparison with more oppressive parents doesn't have much validity. All whippings are abusive so those who practice it are abusive and do damage to children. Until you begin to understand that, you will always have difficulty understanding properly why your son behaved as he did as a child, and why he keeps apologizing today. To continue to place the blame on him is a perpetuation of his suffering. My parents were as easy going as they come, nice respected people and certainly far less involved in physical punishment than the average parent. People liked them, I liked them and don't consider them abusive parents. Yet, when I came to understand abuse better, I realized that in spite of their liberal ways and all the freedom they gave me, their whippings were abusive. Had they known and understood that, they would have never done it. Like yourself, they believed it was the right thing to do.....but it wasn't. I can say now that it did me more harm than good even though the last one I got was at 6 years old. |
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Post by rational on Sept 14, 2013 9:24:04 GMT -5
Very interesting. But you fantasize about your ability to understand people and events. I don't have to. After a decade of working in the field I no longer have to fantasize. I have have talked to people and read accounts like yours. I take you at your word.And yet, with your protest, you have failed to point out any comment that I made that is not supported by what you, in your own words, have said. I see that you have followed my suggestion regarding repeating this mantra. I wonder if this is a good time to point out it was sarcasm. |
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Post by snow on Sept 14, 2013 11:00:13 GMT -5
Actually my son's wild state had nothing to do with the way we raised him. I believe children just react to things differently. We had two other children raised the same way and they never had the wild years. We just could tell early on he had a different nature. We never forced any of them to even attend meeting when thy became teenagers. We just felt we were not going to force our ideas on them. Of course you have to admit that as a parent you must provide guidance to a child. The "wild one" has thanked us many times for the way we raised him. I was amazed that he felt this way. So we have no apologies due and he knows that. We have seen some parents so oppressive with their children you would almost feel like stepping in to defend the child. You would have liked us as parents I guarantee it! I totally feel for both of you and I know you may still suffer because of that. There is a lot which can be discussed from your posts here. However, as long as you will not consider the possibility of your whippings as being complicit in your son's "wild" behaviour, then the discussion can't get productive. There were red flags all over your son's behaviour as a child (more than just a "different nature") and there are red flags in his behaviour today as he thanks you for your whippings and tells you that you were good parents. He continues to suffer today and his conversation is classic evidence of that. Your comparison with more oppressive parents doesn't have much validity. All whippings are abusive so those who practice it are abusive and do damage to children. Until you begin to understand that, you will always have difficulty understanding properly why your son behaved as he did as a child, and why he keeps apologizing today. To continue to place the blame on him is a perpetuation of his suffering. My parents were as easy going as they come, nice respected people and certainly far less involved in physical punishment than the average parent. People liked them, I liked them and don't consider them abusive parents. Yet, when I came to understand abuse better, I realized that in spite of their liberal ways and all the freedom they gave me, their whippings were abusive. Had they known and understood that, they would have never done it. Like yourself, they believed it was the right thing to do.....but it wasn't. I can say now that it did me more harm than good even though the last one I got was at 6 years old. CD my parents were liked and well respected too. They weren't as easy going as yours sound like, but they were not considered to be abusive. At least I don't know if they were. I do know that there were a lot of people that watched while I was removed from meetings. Gospel meetings, special meetings, Sunday AM meetings. No one ever stepped in to help me. They probably all felt that I had it coming. I wasn't sitting still or I was disrupting the meetings. However, I wasn't taken that far away from the meeting and there is no way they couldn't have heard my screams. I wasn't just removed, I was beaten. Then I was brought back into the meeting sobbing. No one cared that I'm aware of and they all seemed to think it was the thing to do because like I said, my parents were well liked and respected. Like I've said before. To this day seeing a child being removed from a restaurant screaming in terror makes me physically ill. There is a difference in the cry. I know when a child is just mad and acting out, I know the cry when a child has been hurt, and I know the cry when a child is terrified and it tears me apart to hear their little voices pleading. That was me. It still effects me when I see it happen to this day. I'm nearly 60 and it takes me right back to when I was that terrified child pleading. That's why I didn't chose physical discipline for my children. I just couldn't bear it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 13:49:20 GMT -5
There is a lot which can be discussed from your posts here. However, as long as you will not consider the possibility of your whippings as being complicit in your son's "wild" behaviour, then the discussion can't get productive. There were red flags all over your son's behaviour as a child (more than just a "different nature") and there are red flags in his behaviour today as he thanks you for your whippings and tells you that you were good parents. He continues to suffer today and his conversation is classic evidence of that. Your comparison with more oppressive parents doesn't have much validity. All whippings are abusive so those who practice it are abusive and do damage to children. Until you begin to understand that, you will always have difficulty understanding properly why your son behaved as he did as a child, and why he keeps apologizing today. To continue to place the blame on him is a perpetuation of his suffering. My parents were as easy going as they come, nice respected people and certainly far less involved in physical punishment than the average parent. People liked them, I liked them and don't consider them abusive parents. Yet, when I came to understand abuse better, I realized that in spite of their liberal ways and all the freedom they gave me, their whippings were abusive. Had they known and understood that, they would have never done it. Like yourself, they believed it was the right thing to do.....but it wasn't. I can say now that it did me more harm than good even though the last one I got was at 6 years old. CD my parents were liked and well respected too. They weren't as easy going as yours sound like, but they were not considered to be abusive. At least I don't know if they were. I do know that there were a lot of people that watched while I was removed from meetings. Gospel meetings, special meetings, Sunday AM meetings. No one ever stepped in to help me. They probably all felt that I had it coming. I wasn't sitting still or I was disrupting the meetings. However, I wasn't taken that far away from the meeting and there is no way they couldn't have heard my screams. I wasn't just removed, I was beaten. Then I was brought back into the meeting sobbing. No one cared that I'm aware of and they all seemed to think it was the thing to do because like I said, my parents were well liked and respected. Like I've said before. To this day seeing a child being removed from a restaurant screaming in terror makes me physically ill. There is a difference in the cry. I know when a child is just mad and acting out, I know the cry when a child has been hurt, and I know the cry when a child is terrified and it tears me apart to hear their little voices pleading. That was me. It still effects me when I see it happen to this day. I'm nearly 60 and it takes me right back to when I was that terrified child pleading. That's why I didn't chose physical discipline for my children. I just couldn't bear it. I'm the same age as you and what you experienced and observed was commonplace in the '50's and '60's. Kids fussing in meeting, taken out in terror, walloped badly, and brought back in sobbing quietly. That pattern occurred over and over. It was the acceptable culture of discipline at the time. I don't remember if it happened to me, probably did, but the interesting thing is that while I was never quite comfortable seeing it happen, it never occurred to me at that age that it was wrong or abusive.It was openly believed to be right and good, so it is easy to get caught up in the blindness of it. It took a lot of years for me to understand that and it really didn't sink in until I spanked my first child a few times and got sick over it each time. It seemed to be senseless, particularly when I realized that my child's behaviour was largely reflective of my parenting skills so a spanking wasn't due to his failure.....it was due to my failure. That was when I realize I no longer wanted to fail my children and swore off all physical and emotional punishment. |
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theolegranni
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THANK YOU for allowing me to resume my old name... It is DEAR to me... Thanks again. theolegranni
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Post by theolegranni on Sept 14, 2013 19:02:41 GMT -5
Hi to all::: I have posted about physical abuse early on in this thread, and how it affected my own parenting. A HORRIBLE moment in time, happened to me when my parents had come to visit my new born girl baby.... It was a VERY difficult week with them in my house, at that time.. I won't go into the details,,, HOWEVER as my parents were returning to their own home and were leaving very early in the AM... My daughter was asleep in her carrier, sitting on the table, and as my parents walked by her on their way out the door, one of them said " You know you will have to beat her to get her attention," I was dumbfounded, that these grandparents could say that about this tiny new precious baby. WHAT THE  ? were they thinking. I just stood and looked at them, and was unable to say anything to them.. At that point in time, I was just so glad to be seeing them leave, and be able to leave me and my child behind. It probably was one time in my life that I was EXTREMELY happy to tell them GOOD-BYE. I resolved at that moment that I would NEVER EVER BEAT her, regardless of the circumstances. I never did, came close a couple times, but was able to walk away from her, until I calmed down. I feel extremely fortunate that I was given a glimpse of my own background, and that in that reflection I was able to see how horribly wrong they were. I have been able to break the chain of abuse that occured in my family of origin. I have a wonderful 7 year old grandson, and he has never faced the threat of a whipping. He is happy, well adjusted, extremely bright, and just the cutest grandchild that has ever existed. (I'm prejudiced I'm sure) I think that the "legacy" that I want to leave behind, is this....... One must be able to change themselves, so that history DOES not repeat it self." All my love theolegranni |
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Post by christiansburg on Sept 14, 2013 19:15:39 GMT -5
Actually my son's wild state had nothing to do with the way we raised him. I believe children just react to things differently. We had two other children raised the same way and they never had the wild years. We just could tell early on he had a different nature. We never forced any of them to even attend meeting when thy became teenagers. We just felt we were not going to force our ideas on them. Of course you have to admit that as a parent you must provide guidance to a child. The "wild one" has thanked us many times for the way we raised him. I was amazed that he felt this way. So we have no apologies due and he knows that. We have seen some parents so oppressive with their children you would almost feel like stepping in to defend the child. You would have liked us as parents I guarantee it! I totally feel for both of you and I know you may still suffer because of that. There is a lot which can be discussed from your posts here. However, as long as you will not consider the possibility of your whippings as being complicit in your son's "wild" behaviour, then the discussion can't get productive. There were red flags all over your son's behaviour as a child (more than just a "different nature") and there are red flags in his behaviour today as he thanks you for your whippings and tells you that you were good parents. He continues to suffer today and his conversation is classic evidence of that. Your comparison with more oppressive parents doesn't have much validity. All whippings are abusive so those who practice it are abusive and do damage to children. Until you begin to understand that, you will always have difficulty understanding properly why your son behaved as he did as a child, and why he keeps apologizing today. To continue to place the blame on him is a perpetuation of his suffering. My parents were as easy going as they come, nice respected people and certainly far less involved in physical punishment than the average parent. People liked them, I liked them and don't consider them abusive parents. Yet, when I came to understand abuse better, I realized that in spite of their liberal ways and all the freedom they gave me, their whippings were abusive. Had they known and understood that, they would have never done it. Like yourself, they believed it was the right thing to do.....but it wasn't. I can say now that it did me more harm than good even though the last one I got was at 6 years old. You probably were one of those children who responded well to a parents verbal advise. Your parents did well. But as I said children have different natures and respond differently. We of course live in a time and era when children must find themselves as they say and there is a segment of society that does not agree with whippings of any kind.Just give them time out, count to ten, take away their toys,etc,and "they will learn. Not always true. Whippings, or spankings, become necessary at times and are always a last resort. Whippings of children are quite scriptural. In Proverbs (you can reference the verse) "though you beat him with many strips and he cry many tears he will not die. The exact wording may be a little different the meaning is applied. It sounds like you may not have grasp the exact meaning of what I have been saying all along. That children must have measured punishment, that they do not grow up with resentment over that, that they understand when they are adults it was deserved and that without that they would sometimes end up in prison, that it does help them to establish good moral values. As I said before my son is grateful for the way he was raised. He has told me he realizes that he got away with many things. We laugh about that now when the whole truth comes out. This you should consider children are not born as angels even though as babies they certainly look like "little angels" at times. In spite of our disagreements here it has been nice talking to you and I compliment you for growing up as a fine person. I think I would have liked your parents. |
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Post by snow on Sept 14, 2013 21:30:18 GMT -5
Hi to all::: I have posted about physical abuse early on in this thread, and how it affected my own parenting. A HORRIBLE moment in time, happened to me when my parents had come to visit my new born girl baby.... It was a VERY difficult week with them in my house, at that time.. I won't go into the details,,, HOWEVER as my parents were returning to their own home and were leaving very early in the AM... My daughter was asleep in her carrier, sitting on the table, and as my parents walked by her on their way out the door, one of them said " You know you will have to beat her to get her attention," I was dumbfounded, that these grandparents could say that about this tiny new precious baby. WHAT THE ? were they thinking. I just stood and looked at them, and was unable to say anything to them.. At that point in time, I was just so glad to be seeing them leave, and be able to leave me and my child behind. It probably was one time in my life that I was EXTREMELY happy to tell them GOOD-BYE. I resolved at that moment that I would NEVER EVER BEAT her, regardless of the circumstances. I never did, came close a couple times, but was able to walk away from her, until I calmed down. I feel extremely fortunate that I was given a glimpse of my own background, and that in that reflection I was able to see how horribly wrong they were. I have been able to break the chain of abuse that occured in my family of origin. I have a wonderful 7 year old grandson, and he has never faced the threat of a whipping. He is happy, well adjusted, extremely bright, and just the cutest grandchild that has ever existed. (I'm prejudiced I'm sure) I think that the "legacy" that I want to leave behind, is this....... One must be able to change themselves, so that history DOES not repeat it self." All my love theolegranni That's how I felt too. Good for you. I agree that one of the greatest legacies was can leave is we were able to change things and did not let history repeat itself! I am about to have a grandson so I can see how it would feel to know he isn't being abused. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 21:32:15 GMT -5
There is a lot which can be discussed from your posts here. However, as long as you will not consider the possibility of your whippings as being complicit in your son's "wild" behaviour, then the discussion can't get productive. There were red flags all over your son's behaviour as a child (more than just a "different nature") and there are red flags in his behaviour today as he thanks you for your whippings and tells you that you were good parents. He continues to suffer today and his conversation is classic evidence of that. Your comparison with more oppressive parents doesn't have much validity. All whippings are abusive so those who practice it are abusive and do damage to children. Until you begin to understand that, you will always have difficulty understanding properly why your son behaved as he did as a child, and why he keeps apologizing today. To continue to place the blame on him is a perpetuation of his suffering. My parents were as easy going as they come, nice respected people and certainly far less involved in physical punishment than the average parent. People liked them, I liked them and don't consider them abusive parents. Yet, when I came to understand abuse better, I realized that in spite of their liberal ways and all the freedom they gave me, their whippings were abusive. Had they known and understood that, they would have never done it. Like yourself, they believed it was the right thing to do.....but it wasn't. I can say now that it did me more harm than good even though the last one I got was at 6 years old. You probably were one of those children who responded well to a parents verbal advise. Your parents did well. But as I said children have different natures and respond differently. We of course live in a time and era when children must find themselves as they say and there is a segment of society that does not agree with whippings of any kind.Just give them time out, count to ten, take away their toys,etc,and "they will learn. Not always true. Whippings, or spankings, become necessary at times and are always a last resort. Whippings of children are quite scriptural. In Proverbs (you can reference the verse) "though you beat him with many strips and he cry many tears he will not die. The exact wording may be a little different the meaning is applied. It sounds like you may not have grasp the exact meaning of what I have been saying all along. That children must have measured punishment, that they do not grow up with resentment over that, that they understand when they are adults it was deserved and that without that they would sometimes end up in prison, that it does help them to establish good moral values. As I said before my son is grateful for the way he was raised. He has told me he realizes that he got away with many things. We laugh about that now when the whole truth comes out. This you should consider children are not born as angels even though as babies they certainly look like "little angels" at times. In spite of our disagreements here it has been nice talking to you and I compliment you for growing up as a fine person. I think I would have liked your parents. I appreciate your evenness about this. Most people would have become more defensive and combative. None of this makes you a bad person, it makes you a normal person for your era. You applied parental duties as your were taught and believed in, and you still believe in today. Your beliefs in child care are wrong and need to be changed. The time has past for you raising children so there is very little to be gained by discussing discipline issues but perhaps your grandchildren can avoid abuse. Let me say that discipline does not mean substituting whippings for taking away toys and giving time out. Whether you give "many stripes" by beating a child or removing toys, it is wrong and abusive. Whether we misinterpret Proverbs or whether Proverbs is simply wrong, it doesn't matter, beating a child is wrong and a parent, after doing it, should apologize to their children for it....even in adulthood. Can you imagine even for a second that Jesus would advocate whipping a child? "Suffer them not to come unto to me". "If you do this these to these children, you do it unto me." Not only were my children not beaten, neither did they have toys taken from them in punishment....no "time outs" either. Child discipline does not have to be brutal and violent, which all of those methods you listed entail. There are many other ways which are far better and lead to a child becoming a whole adult, not one fractured by violence. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2013 11:48:14 GMT -5
Hi to all::: I have posted about physical abuse early on in this thread, and how it affected my own parenting. A HORRIBLE moment in time, happened to me when my parents had come to visit my new born girl baby.... It was a VERY difficult week with them in my house, at that time.. I won't go into the details,,, HOWEVER as my parents were returning to their own home and were leaving very early in the AM... My daughter was asleep in her carrier, sitting on the table, and as my parents walked by her on their way out the door, one of them said " You know you will have to beat her to get her attention," I was dumbfounded, that these grandparents could say that about this tiny new precious baby. WHAT THE ? were they thinking. I just stood and looked at them, and was unable to say anything to them.. At that point in time, I was just so glad to be seeing them leave, and be able to leave me and my child behind. It probably was one time in my life that I was EXTREMELY happy to tell them GOOD-BYE. I resolved at that moment that I would NEVER EVER BEAT her, regardless of the circumstances. I never did, came close a couple times, but was able to walk away from her, until I calmed down. I feel extremely fortunate that I was given a glimpse of my own background, and that in that reflection I was able to see how horribly wrong they were. I have been able to break the chain of abuse that occured in my family of origin. I have a wonderful 7 year old grandson, and he has never faced the threat of a whipping. He is happy, well adjusted, extremely bright, and just the cutest grandchild that has ever existed. (I'm prejudiced I'm sure) I think that the "legacy" that I want to leave behind, is this....... One must be able to change themselves, so that history DOES not repeat it self." All my love theolegranni Thanks for this theolegranni. For myself you are opening up a whole new dimension to these things that the "experts" have overlooked, conveniently or otherwise. Your parents were probably feeling guilty about the way they treated you during your upbringing and to justify themselves were suggesting you follow their example and thus make them right? Your experiences made you determined to be the opposite of what you suffered. Great to hear from you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2013 12:08:45 GMT -5
Christiansburg, if you don't mind could you please explain what you mean by "whippings?" It might seem obvious but I would like a little more clarity on your use of the word.
One reason I ask is that over here we used to hear phrases like "Your Dad will kill you when he finds out," or "You won't be able to sit down for a week," and so on. Obviously these were exaggerated phrases used, but were very normal. What they meant in reality was a smacked backside, with or without a slipper or a belt, etc.
The term "whippings" might be conveying a stronger message than what happened in practice?
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Post by rational on Sept 15, 2013 12:09:29 GMT -5
You probably were one of those children who responded well to a parents verbal advise. Your parents did well. It is all a matter of how they were raised. Before children can respond to their parents, or any adult, they need to respect them. And parents need to earn that respect. Punishment does not earn respect. It only teaches you to fear the person who has the power to punish you and to view them with resentment. Behavior becomes doing things in secret to avoid being caught and thus avoiding the punishment.If a whipping is the best a parent can come up with the parent needs to take a few steps back and think about their behavior. You seem fond of scripture. Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.Train them to strike out to get what they want and they will indeed not depart from that when they get old.So is selling daughters into servitude. Hopefully civilization has progressed beyond that. And the biblical advice regarding slaves has also been put aside. I was unable to find a verse in the bible that was even close to this. I did find one about not beating the stripes from a tiger.I think you have been quite clear and articulate. You believe that children, at times, deserve to be hit. You believe that you can, and should, teach children by inflicting pain.And the moral value is???? "I am in control of you so I can inflict pain if you do not behave as I expect." "I will do what you say, not because I think it is the right thing to do but because I do not want to be hurt." What do you think the moral lesson is? You have said that your son spent a decade trying to find out what his moral code was. Without fear of the stick his parents wielded he had no moral compass. He did not understand self-control when that threat of discovery and punishment was removed. The result - what you described as a wild life whild, once on his own, he began to develop as an adult. No, they are not born as angels. They are born as humans. And they live and learn from their parents. And if self control is derived by the threat of a whipping, there is no need to self regulate. If you are forced to do what the person in control demands, there is no need to develop a moral code. If the lesson taught is - "Do as I say or I will use my power to hurt or deprive you." Then that is how the individual will face life. If they are taught that "Might makes right" then when they get the 'might' they will enforce what they want. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 15, 2013 12:12:58 GMT -5
Glad you shared this profound experience, granni!
Your vision, and resolve paid off. You made a difference and changed the tide.
I love a good ending!
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? were they thinking. I just stood and looked at them, and was unable to say anything to them.. At that point in time, I was just so glad to be seeing them leave, and be able to leave me and my child behind. It probably was one time in my life that I was EXTREMELY happy to tell them GOOD-BYE. 
