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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 13:22:24 GMT -5
The following statement was published in a pamphlet published as The Tramp or Go-Preachers(Sometimes called Pilgrims) Do they Walk "the Jesus Way?By Wm. C. Trimble From the Impartial Reporter A Convention of what are known as Tramp Preachers or Go-Preachers (as they name themselves), sometimes described as Pilgrims, was held in the month of July last, at Crocknacrieve, near Ballinamallard, in the County Fermanagh. If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading their hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations.
The main feature of their public addresses, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry, and assertions that all those who have been recognised as great, good and holy men, in the past and in the present, have been consigned to everlasting perdition because they had believed in a Christian ministry set apart for the work and had worshipped in sacred buildings generally described as churches. The Popes of Rome and Archbishops of Canterbury, John Knox and Calvin, Wesley and Whitfield, Spurgeon and Moody -- all of them and of their class, people were told, had gone to eternal torment!! People listened to this clap-trap of the religious mountebank, and there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker.Exactly my point of what I have been saying for months- "If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations." BUT. . . "The main feature of their public address, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry" WHY, WHY WHY, WHY must this STUPID, USELESS, doctrine live on??? It is NOT Christian. It is NOT charitable. It is DIVISIVE and it is SELF SERVING! And yet, as recently as a few months ago, Lyle Schoeber said that THIS IS OUR DOCTRINE and his actions demonstrated that IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, THE WORKERS WILL EXCOMMUNICATE YOU. Why, why, why? Dear Lord, why? I am reminded of bad employees that like to point out how well that they are doing by comparing themselves to others and denigrating the work that their co-employees are doing. Those finger pointing co-workers are usually considered trouble makers and usually don't last. The 2x2 fellowship does the EXACT same thing with this doctrine by going "nanny nanny boo boo" to all other Christian denominations. Why, as the author of this pamphlet said, can they not content themselves with preaching those things that will persuade Christians to a better life? WHY THE NEED TO RUN DOWN OTHER DENOMINATIONS? Why in God's name is the devilish doctrine allowed to be the CORNERSTONE of the fellowship? Quotes from Cherie Kropp's excellent book on William Irvine. www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/trimblewc.php
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 14:05:10 GMT -5
The following statement was published in a pamphlet published as The Tramp or Go-Preachers(Sometimes called Pilgrims) Do they Walk "the Jesus Way?By Wm. C. Trimble From the Impartial Reporter A Convention of what are known as Tramp Preachers or Go-Preachers (as they name themselves), sometimes described as Pilgrims, was held in the month of July last, at Crocknacrieve, near Ballinamallard, in the County Fermanagh. If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading their hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations.
The main feature of their public addresses, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry, and assertions that all those who have been recognised as great, good and holy men, in the past and in the present, have been consigned to everlasting perdition because they had believed in a Christian ministry set apart for the work and had worshipped in sacred buildings generally described as churches. The Popes of Rome and Archbishops of Canterbury, John Knox and Calvin, Wesley and Whitfield, Spurgeon and Moody -- all of them and of their class, people were told, had gone to eternal torment!! People listened to this clap-trap of the religious mountebank, and there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker.Exactly my point of what I have been saying for months- "If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations." BUT. . . "The main feature of their public address, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry" WHY, WHY WHY, WHY must this STUPID, USELESS, doctrine live on??? It is NOT Christian. It is NOT charitable. It is DIVISIVE and it is SELF SERVING! And yet, as recently as a few months ago, Lyle Schoeber said that THIS IS OUR DOCTRINE and his actions demonstrated that IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, THE WORKERS WILL EXCOMMUNICATE YOU. Why, why, why? Dear Lord, why? I am reminded of bad employees that like to point out how well that they are doing by comparing themselves to others and denigrating the work that their co-employees are doing. Those finger pointing co-workers are usually considered trouble makers and usually don't last. The 2x2 fellowship does the EXACT same thing with this doctrine by going "nanny nanny boo boo" to all other Christian denominations. Why, as the author of this pamphlet said, can they not content themselves with preaching those things that will persuade Christians to a better life? WHY THE NEED TO RUN DOWN OTHER DENOMINATIONS? Why in God's name is the devilish doctrine allowed to be the CORNERSTONE of the fellowship? Quotes from Cherie Kropp's excellent book on William Irvine. www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/trimblewc.phpThe sect was largely built upon the foundation of hurling spiritual abuse at every other Christian sect or denomination. In the early days many were indoctrinated with this spiritual abuse which quickly became an integral part of the culture of the group. The spiritual abuse became a widespread feature to control members and shun those who left the group. It continues today simply because every person in the group past and present is/was a victim. The leaders today are victims. They are subservient to a system they have been indoctrinated into believing is God's only true way. I'm afraid the only cure in most cases is that scales must fall from their eyes, otherwise they will not see anything different. Had the scales not been "forcibly" removed from my own eyes, I would still be championing their cause today, oblivious to my own folly.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 7, 2013 14:17:38 GMT -5
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 15:27:29 GMT -5
Thanks- I was reading through your book and then jumped to that link. Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 7, 2013 17:32:15 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 7, 2013 17:38:13 GMT -5
Denouncing the churches in Ireland. Who woulda thought?
I note this observation from the writer, "there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker". Or perhaps they accepted it as true because they weren't born yesterday.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 18:10:55 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars. So how do you explain Lyle Schober excommunicating someone just a few months ago for stating that Methodists and Baptists were our brothers in Christ as well. Is the war still going on? I do remember history class, the Irish weren't burning people at the stake in the early 1900s in the area that the workers preached. I once preached the same thing as a worker- that all other non 2x2 preachers were but hirelings. The workers still preach the same thing. Why? (I repent of preaching that, and am APPALLED at Lyle for excommunicating someone for not believing in that idiotic self-serving doctrine.)
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 7, 2013 18:17:33 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars. So how do you explain Lyle Schober excommunicating someone just a few months ago for stating that Methodists and Baptists were our brothers in Christ as well. Is the war still going on? I do remember history class, the Irish weren't burning people at the stake in the early 1900s in the area that the workers preached. I once preached the same thing as a worker- that all other non 2x2 preachers were but hirelings. The workers still preach the same thing. Why? (I repent of preaching that, and am APPALLED at Lyle for excommunicating someone for not believing in that idiotic self-serving doctrine.) write Lyle and ask him to explain it. I don't think there's anyone here that can explain it. Do you have any details.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 7, 2013 18:35:57 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars. So how do you explain Lyle Schober excommunicating someone just a few months ago for stating that Methodists and Baptists were our brothers in Christ as well. Is the war still going on? I do remember history class, the Irish weren't burning people at the stake in the early 1900s in the area that the workers preached. I once preached the same thing as a worker- that all other non 2x2 preachers were but hirelings. The workers still preach the same thing. Why? (I repent of preaching that, and am APPALLED at Lyle for excommunicating someone for not believing in that idiotic self-serving doctrine.) There has been a great deal of violent conflict between Protestant and Catholic going back for centuries in Ireland. So, a movement which preached "a pox on both your houses" at the time that lay preaching emerged as a major force across the British Isles, was probably inevitable. And the condemnation and wrath visited upon any movement that seeks to wipe the slate clean and re-explore the basic roots of Christianity, makes their insularity a foregone conclusion. Irvine Grey's new book is a case in point. Instead of trying to find out what the thing is really about, he goes in with his "orthodox Christian" checklist and rules the movement a "dangerous cult". So this is definitely a two way street, sacerdotal. Sad, but inevitable.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 18:47:08 GMT -5
So how do you explain Lyle Schober excommunicating someone just a few months ago for stating that Methodists and Baptists were our brothers in Christ as well. Is the war still going on? I do remember history class, the Irish weren't burning people at the stake in the early 1900s in the area that the workers preached. I once preached the same thing as a worker- that all other non 2x2 preachers were but hirelings. The workers still preach the same thing. Why? (I repent of preaching that, and am APPALLED at Lyle for excommunicating someone for not believing in that idiotic self-serving doctrine.) There has been a great deal of violent conflict between Protestant and Catholic going back for centuries in Ireland. So, a movement which preached "a pox on both your houses" at the time that lay preaching emerged as a major force across the British Isles, was probably inevitable. And the condemnation and wrath visited upon any movement that seeks to wipe the slate clean and re-explore the basic roots of Christianity, makes their insularity a foregone conclusion. Irvine Grey's new book is a case in point. Instead of trying to find out what the thing is really about, he goes in with his "orthodox Christian" checklist and rules the movement a "dangerous cult". So this is definitely a two way street, sacerdotal. Sad, but inevitable. Do you think that the doctrine is wise?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 19:08:58 GMT -5
So how do you explain Lyle Schober excommunicating someone just a few months ago for stating that Methodists and Baptists were our brothers in Christ as well. Is the war still going on? I do remember history class, the Irish weren't burning people at the stake in the early 1900s in the area that the workers preached. I once preached the same thing as a worker- that all other non 2x2 preachers were but hirelings. The workers still preach the same thing. Why? (I repent of preaching that, and am APPALLED at Lyle for excommunicating someone for not believing in that idiotic self-serving doctrine.) write Lyle and ask him to explain it. I don't think there's anyone here that can explain it. Do you have any details. Thankfully, Lyle was plenty clear in his letter to Brandon. . . A member of the 2x2s has to believe in the church in the home and in preachers without a home. I believe in both- but I also believe that there can be churches in other buildings and preachers that have a home. I guess I will wait on my excommunication letter in the mail.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 7, 2013 19:36:09 GMT -5
write Lyle and ask him to explain it. I don't think there's anyone here that can explain it. Do you have any details. Thankfully, Lyle was plenty clear in his letter to Brandon. . . A member of the 2x2s has to believe in the church in the home and in preachers without a home. I believe in both- but I also believe that there can be churches in other buildings and preachers that have a home. I guess I will wait on my excommunication letter in the mail. I was told one time "Don't tell all you know,because then others will know more than you know. They will know all you know and all they know too." Sometimes it's better to write in the sand, and say nothing.
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Post by findingtruth on Jul 7, 2013 21:10:21 GMT -5
The following statement was published in a pamphlet published as The Tramp or Go-Preachers(Sometimes called Pilgrims) Do they Walk "the Jesus Way?By Wm. C. Trimble From the Impartial Reporter A Convention of what are known as Tramp Preachers or Go-Preachers (as they name themselves), sometimes described as Pilgrims, was held in the month of July last, at Crocknacrieve, near Ballinamallard, in the County Fermanagh. If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading their hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations.
The main feature of their public addresses, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry, and assertions that all those who have been recognised as great, good and holy men, in the past and in the present, have been consigned to everlasting perdition because they had believed in a Christian ministry set apart for the work and had worshipped in sacred buildings generally described as churches. The Popes of Rome and Archbishops of Canterbury, John Knox and Calvin, Wesley and Whitfield, Spurgeon and Moody -- all of them and of their class, people were told, had gone to eternal torment!! People listened to this clap-trap of the religious mountebank, and there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker.Exactly my point of what I have been saying for months- "If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations." BUT. . . "The main feature of their public address, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry" WHY, WHY WHY, WHY must this STUPID, USELESS, doctrine live on??? It is NOT Christian. It is NOT charitable. It is DIVISIVE and it is SELF SERVING! And yet, as recently as a few months ago, Lyle Schoeber said that THIS IS OUR DOCTRINE and his actions demonstrated that IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, THE WORKERS WILL EXCOMMUNICATE YOU. Why, why, why? Dear Lord, why? I am reminded of bad employees that like to point out how well that they are doing by comparing themselves to others and denigrating the work that their co-employees are doing. Those finger pointing co-workers are usually considered trouble makers and usually don't last. The 2x2 fellowship does the EXACT same thing with this doctrine by going "nanny nanny boo boo" to all other Christian denominations. Why, as the author of this pamphlet said, can they not content themselves with preaching those things that will persuade Christians to a better life? WHY THE NEED TO RUN DOWN OTHER DENOMINATIONS? Why in God's name is the devilish doctrine allowed to be the CORNERSTONE of the fellowship? Quotes from Cherie Kropp's excellent book on William Irvine. www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/trimblewc.phpSo, sac, why why why do you remain in this fellowship when you are obviously distressed by the shaky and corrupt foundation?
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Post by findingtruth on Jul 7, 2013 21:13:25 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars. Linford, need I remind you that the 2x2 fellowship came into existence for the exact splits on doctrine? Same song, different fellowship. Please don't feel unique in this because you are no different in the eyes of God. Jesus never intended for His people to be divided. I clearly see as much division in the 2x2 fellowship as I do in any other denomination.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 7, 2013 21:28:32 GMT -5
There has been a great deal of violent conflict between Protestant and Catholic going back for centuries in Ireland. So, a movement which preached "a pox on both your houses" at the time that lay preaching emerged as a major force across the British Isles, was probably inevitable. And the condemnation and wrath visited upon any movement that seeks to wipe the slate clean and re-explore the basic roots of Christianity, makes their insularity a foregone conclusion. Irvine Grey's new book is a case in point. Instead of trying to find out what the thing is really about, he goes in with his "orthodox Christian" checklist and rules the movement a "dangerous cult". So this is definitely a two way street, sacerdotal. Sad, but inevitable. Do you think that the doctrine is wise? I can't answer that. I can understand why there are at, where they are at. I hope they tend to greater moderation and open-ness in the future as many reactionary movements do over time.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 7, 2013 21:48:28 GMT -5
The following statement was published in a pamphlet published as The Tramp or Go-Preachers(Sometimes called Pilgrims) Do they Walk "the Jesus Way?By Wm. C. Trimble From the Impartial Reporter A Convention of what are known as Tramp Preachers or Go-Preachers (as they name themselves), sometimes described as Pilgrims, was held in the month of July last, at Crocknacrieve, near Ballinamallard, in the County Fermanagh. If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading their hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations.
The main feature of their public addresses, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry, and assertions that all those who have been recognised as great, good and holy men, in the past and in the present, have been consigned to everlasting perdition because they had believed in a Christian ministry set apart for the work and had worshipped in sacred buildings generally described as churches. The Popes of Rome and Archbishops of Canterbury, John Knox and Calvin, Wesley and Whitfield, Spurgeon and Moody -- all of them and of their class, people were told, had gone to eternal torment!! People listened to this clap-trap of the religious mountebank, and there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker.Exactly my point of what I have been saying for months- "If they had contented themselves as Evangelists with persuading hearers to live a better life, good wishes might have been extended to their operations." BUT. . . "The main feature of their public address, however, was, denouncing the Christian ministry" WHY, WHY WHY, WHY must this STUPID, USELESS, doctrine live on??? It is NOT Christian. It is NOT charitable. It is DIVISIVE and it is SELF SERVING! And yet, as recently as a few months ago, Lyle Schoeber said that THIS IS OUR DOCTRINE and his actions demonstrated that IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, THE WORKERS WILL EXCOMMUNICATE YOU. Why, why, why? Dear Lord, why? I am reminded of bad employees that like to point out how well that they are doing by comparing themselves to others and denigrating the work that their co-employees are doing. Those finger pointing co-workers are usually considered trouble makers and usually don't last. The 2x2 fellowship does the EXACT same thing with this doctrine by going "nanny nanny boo boo" to all other Christian denominations. Why, as the author of this pamphlet said, can they not content themselves with preaching those things that will persuade Christians to a better life? WHY THE NEED TO RUN DOWN OTHER DENOMINATIONS? Why in God's name is the devilish doctrine allowed to be the CORNERSTONE of the fellowship? Quotes from Cherie Kropp's excellent book on William Irvine. www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/trimblewc.phpSo, sac, why why why do you remain in this fellowship when you are obviously distressed by the shaky and corrupt foundation? Because I see the good. Perhaps I am like a battered woman that keeps going back to the one that beats her because she hopes that he will change.
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2013 22:56:37 GMT -5
Perhaps
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 3:11:58 GMT -5
Denouncing the churches in Ireland. Who woulda thought? I note this observation from the writer, "there were some people who accepted it as true because of the fervour of the speaker". Or perhaps they accepted it as true because they weren't born yesterday. The trouble is What Hat, back in the early days (late 19th - early 20th century) the lay people were in fact "born yesterday." Over here at least, they were simple, poor people who had little prospect of rising above that level in life. They were not all that well informed. The fervour of the "speakers" most certainly gave them a hope of being something in this life, even if it was designed for the next. Everything that was denounced apart from other denominations, sects, e.g. education, wealth, entertainment, other pursuits, were all by and large beyond the means of the lay people. Life was generally tough, with little time nor money to lift them above survival mode. There was no welfare state. Working days were long with few days off. Sunday was a day of worship, then it was back to the long grind. They were made to feel special in their place. It was what God was after. The Impartial Reporter is a fairly accurate account of the times and what was going on. Times have changed and we really need to try and understand how things were back then. It is a very good historical record and should not be discredited because it does not gel with modern experiences or mindset.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 8, 2013 5:53:09 GMT -5
In those days there was much animosity between denominations. Most denominations came into existence because of violent splits on doctrine. Remember history class, those that were burned at the stake. The civil struggle in Ireland, the North protestant and the south Roman Catholic. The crusades were religious wars. Linford, need I remind you that the 2x2 fellowship came into existence for the exact splits on doctrine? Same song, different fellowship. Please don't feel unique in this because you are no different in the eyes of God. Jesus never intended for His people to be divided. I clearly see as much division in the 2x2 fellowship as I do in any other denomination. This is true. Does this mean there is no body doing what Jesus intended?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 6:41:40 GMT -5
Linford, need I remind you that the 2x2 fellowship came into existence for the exact splits on doctrine? Same song, different fellowship. Please don't feel unique in this because you are no different in the eyes of God. Jesus never intended for His people to be divided. I clearly see as much division in the 2x2 fellowship as I do in any other denomination. This is true. Does this mean there is no body doing what Jesus intended? This is very probably true. Was anybody doing what Jesus intended 2000 years ago?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 8, 2013 7:18:39 GMT -5
Linford, need I remind you that the 2x2 fellowship came into existence for the exact splits on doctrine? Same song, different fellowship. Please don't feel unique in this because you are no different in the eyes of God. Jesus never intended for His people to be divided. I clearly see as much division in the 2x2 fellowship as I do in any other denomination. This is true. Does this mean there is no body doing what Jesus intended? I see very few that do what Jesus COMMANDED: * Love your enemies * Love those that despitefully use you * Be meek * Be poor in Spirit * Look after the poor * Look after the prisoners * Look after the prostitutes * Look after the insane * Look after the leper (or the one with AIDS, syphilis, etc.) * Hunger and thirst for righteousness * Do not judge * Forgive others This is what I look for in Christians, not whether or not they meet in a home, whether or not they draw a salary, whether or not they wear nice clothes, whether or not they wear their hair in a bun, etc. But, as a Christian, I don't give a damn what anyone else is doing- I am COMMANDED by our Saviour to LOVE ALL. To give a drink of cold water to ALL. Whether that be the bum, the prostitute, the man dying in the gutter, etc. Some of the more Christian people I know are agnostic. At least by their actions they are more Christian than the Christians. Same for some of my Buddist and Hindu friends. They put the Christians to shame.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 8, 2013 7:23:26 GMT -5
This is true. Does this mean there is no body doing what Jesus intended? I see very few that do what Jesus COMMANDED: * Love your enemies * Love those that despitefully use you * Be meek * Be poor in Spirit * Look after the poor * Look after the prisoners * Look after the prostitutes * Look after the insane * Look after the leper (or the one with AIDS, syphilis, etc.) * Hunger and thirst for righteousness * Do not judge * Forgive others This is what I look for in Christians, not whether or not they meet in a home, whether or not they draw a salary, whether or not they wear nice clothes, whether or not they wear their hair in a bun, etc. But, as a Christian, I don't give a damn what anyone else is doing- I am COMMANDED by our Saviour to LOVE ALL. To give a drink of cold water to ALL. Whether that be the bum, the prostitute, the man dying in the gutter, etc. Some of the more Christian people I know are agnostic. At least by their actions they are more Christian than the Christians. Same for some of my Buddist and Hindu friends. They put the Christians to shame. We can do all of this and not know God. Remember the rich young ruler?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 8, 2013 7:30:25 GMT -5
I see very few that do what Jesus COMMANDED: * Love your enemies * Love those that despitefully use you * Be meek * Be poor in Spirit * Look after the poor * Look after the prisoners * Look after the prostitutes * Look after the insane * Look after the leper (or the one with AIDS, syphilis, etc.) * Hunger and thirst for righteousness * Do not judge * Forgive others This is what I look for in Christians, not whether or not they meet in a home, whether or not they draw a salary, whether or not they wear nice clothes, whether or not they wear their hair in a bun, etc. But, as a Christian, I don't give a damn what anyone else is doing- I am COMMANDED by our Saviour to LOVE ALL. To give a drink of cold water to ALL. Whether that be the bum, the prostitute, the man dying in the gutter, etc. Some of the more Christian people I know are agnostic. At least by their actions they are more Christian than the Christians. Same for some of my Buddist and Hindu friends. They put the Christians to shame. We can do all of this and not know God. Remember the rich young ruler? What is your point, I am not following you. Jesus's point seemed to be very clear- if we love this world's riches over Him, then we are not worthy of Him. We teach our kids this constantly- riches are deceiving- they promise happiness- but do not deliver on that promise. Typically riches do just like the bible says- become a snare and our possessions wind up possessing us. You seem to be indicating what Paul wrote in I Corinthians 13- though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, then I am nothing. Instead of quoting above, perhaps you would have liked me to quote I Corinthians 13- it means exactly the same.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 8, 2013 7:49:51 GMT -5
We can do all of this and not know God. Remember the rich young ruler? What is your point, I am not following you. Jesus's point seemed to be very clear- if we love this world's riches over Him, then we are not worthy of Him. We teach our kids this constantly- riches are deceiving- they promise happiness- but do not deliver on that promise. Typically riches do just like the bible says- become a snare and our possessions wind up possessing us. You seem to be indicating what Paul wrote in I Corinthians 13- though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, then I am nothing. Instead of quoting above, perhaps you would have liked me to quote I Corinthians 13- it means exactly the same. Sorry I intruded.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 8, 2013 7:57:39 GMT -5
What is your point, I am not following you. Jesus's point seemed to be very clear- if we love this world's riches over Him, then we are not worthy of Him. We teach our kids this constantly- riches are deceiving- they promise happiness- but do not deliver on that promise. Typically riches do just like the bible says- become a snare and our possessions wind up possessing us. You seem to be indicating what Paul wrote in I Corinthians 13- though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, then I am nothing. Instead of quoting above, perhaps you would have liked me to quote I Corinthians 13- it means exactly the same. Sorry I intruded. No, I am glad that you did. You raised a good point, although I didn't understand it at first. I am just so used to some of my fellow friends and workers looking to find loop holes in what Jesus COMMANDED (never mind other denominations who seem to throw out all 99% of the bible that don't suit them- they are even worse than the 2x2s) that I had a knee-jerk reaction to what you wrote. But it was a good point, although I think Jesus was using those verses about the rich young ruler to warn that living for earthly riches would make it more difficult to follow him. I don't look for those going out 2x2 as an example of the right way. I don't look for those that meet in a home as an example of the right way. I look for those that exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit. Which may be a 2x2 (I know MANY friends and workers that have the Fruit of the Spirit by the bushel basket and it puts me to shame), but I also know many of other denominations that have the same.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 8, 2013 8:03:54 GMT -5
No, I am glad that you did. You raised a good point, although I didn't understand it at first. I am just so used to some of my fellow friends and workers looking to find loop holes in what Jesus COMMANDED (never mind other denominations who seem to throw out all 99% of the bible that don't suit them- they are even worse than the 2x2s) that I had a knee-jerk reaction to what you wrote. But it was a good point, although I think Jesus was using those verses about the rich young ruler to warn that living for earthly riches would make it more difficult to follow him. I don't look for those going out 2x2 as an example of the right way. I don't look for those that meet in a home as an example of the right way. I look for those that exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit. Which may be a 2x2 (I know MANY friends and workers that have the Fruit of the Spirit by the bushel basket and it puts me to shame), but I also know many of other denominations that have the same. That's so true,but don't we have the human ability to do nice things and kind deeds? I believe we do and feel therefore that is not always a picture of what's eternal.Those qualities are what we should do,but when we die they rot with the flesh. just my feelings.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 8, 2013 8:14:34 GMT -5
No, I am glad that you did. You raised a good point, although I didn't understand it at first. I am just so used to some of my fellow friends and workers looking to find loop holes in what Jesus COMMANDED (never mind other denominations who seem to throw out all 99% of the bible that don't suit them- they are even worse than the 2x2s) that I had a knee-jerk reaction to what you wrote. But it was a good point, although I think Jesus was using those verses about the rich young ruler to warn that living for earthly riches would make it more difficult to follow him. I don't look for those going out 2x2 as an example of the right way. I don't look for those that meet in a home as an example of the right way. I look for those that exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit. Which may be a 2x2 (I know MANY friends and workers that have the Fruit of the Spirit by the bushel basket and it puts me to shame), but I also know many of other denominations that have the same. That's so true,but don't we have the human ability to do nice things and kind deeds? I believe we do and feel therefore that is not always a picture of what's eternal.Those qualities are what we should do,but when we die they rot with the flesh. just my feelings. I see it a little different. Jesus said whosoever gives a drink of cold water to someone, it was like doing it to Him- that simple action of kindness was noted by Christ. That seemed to be something that had eternal weight. I feel that we show our love for God through our love for our neighbor, and we show the love of God in us, when we can love our enemy. The first commandment is to love God with all our heart, mind, and soul. The second was like unto it, to love our neighbor as ourself. Maybe I am wrong, but I like what Abraham Lincoln said, "When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Perhaps Emily Dickinson said my thoughts even better- "If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain."
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Post by jondough on Jul 8, 2013 8:17:18 GMT -5
I see very few that do what Jesus COMMANDED: * Love your enemies * Love those that despitefully use you * Be meek * Be poor in Spirit * Look after the poor * Look after the prisoners * Look after the prostitutes * Look after the insane * Look after the leper (or the one with AIDS, syphilis, etc.) * Hunger and thirst for righteousness * Do not judge * Forgive others This is what I look for in Christians, not whether or not they meet in a home, whether or not they draw a salary, whether or not they wear nice clothes, whether or not they wear their hair in a bun, etc. But, as a Christian, I don't give a damn what anyone else is doing- I am COMMANDED by our Saviour to LOVE ALL. To give a drink of cold water to ALL. Whether that be the bum, the prostitute, the man dying in the gutter, etc. Some of the more Christian people I know are agnostic. At least by their actions they are more Christian than the Christians. Same for some of my Buddist and Hindu friends. They put the Christians to shame. We can do all of this and not know God. Remember the rich young ruler? This is very true...but.... Can we be a Christian, know God, be led by the spirit, and not do these things? Wouldn't they be an indication that we are being led by the spirit? So if they are not a part of our life, wouldn't that be an indication that we are not being led by the Spirit? Example; A mother sees her child out on the road in danger. She runs to that child and takes it out of danger - an indication that she loves her child. You (Linford) might say, yeah but, "someone could do this and not love that child". But then like above, I would ask, could you love that child and not do what she did? (assuming of course, that you knew the child was in danger).
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