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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -5
Jesse asked: Cherie you just proved my point! That paragraph has NOTHING to do with CSA! Why should it be included on a CSA specific site?? *** because a victim has the right to tell their story however they want to. WINGS originally was set up to be a CSA VICTIM's website...not merely a CSA site. The requirement was that the victim must have professed or be professing.
Jesse asked: I remember... you wrote Jean's story, or "helped" her write it, didn't you? ***Yes I did. This was never hidden. Jean wanted me to help her. I've helped many folks with their stories through the years. They usually will write a draft or emails to me and then I put the events in chronological order. Their original text/wording is used, except for grammar and spelling errors, which they want me to change. I ask them about any gaps that I notice and they fill those in - we go back and forth. When the story is complete, I ask them to please study if to see if there is anyone it might hurt that they would regret, or if there is anything in it that might cause them to have harmful repercussions - to consider things from this angle--I point out things I think have the potential to harm them. Once they are completely satisfied with their story, it has been placed on a website. That was my job on WINGS - to gather victims stories. Some wrote their stories at my invitation, without my assistance such as VegasBob.
Jesse asked: Did you give Jean that copy of "The Secret Sect" too? No I did not. What difference would it have made? Does the giver somehow invalidate her comments and feelings?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 19:32:05 GMT -5
Ok, now how about the link to the post?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 20:31:37 GMT -5
Cherie, please post a link to that quote. You can find it yourself... I have it saved it on my hard drive.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 20:32:43 GMT -5
Jesse, according to the following TMB quote of yours in 2008, you wanted to edit out the victims comments about the 2x2 history (coverup of the founder Wm Irvine) and exclusivity (only way doctrine). Jesse posted: If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues. For example, this paragraph that was added to the end of Jean Trotter's letter could easily be removed…… It has nothing to do with the abuse issue anyway. If Jean or anyone else wants to include doctrine issues in their story, they should put that on the VOT website, but I recommend edited stories for the abuse website. Cherie, post the link please...
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 20:44:20 GMT -5
You can find it yourself... I have it saved it on my hard drive. I've been looking for over an hour, and can usually find things I posted pretty easily. Normally you can search the paragraph or the poster's name and keywords and it will come up. I don't think I posted that, and it's not written as I would write it. Did you copy the link, or thread title? Who else was in the conversation?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 20:48:41 GMT -5
You can find it yourself... I have it saved it on my hard drive. I've been looking for over an hour, and can usually find things I posted pretty easily. Normally you can search the paragraph or the poster's name and keywords and it will come up. I don't think I posted that, and it's not written as I would write it. Did you copy the link, or thread title? Who else was in the conversation? Some have complained that Proboard's search feature isnt working properly...and that PB is working on it. Welcome to the crowd. I sometimes read things I wrote earlier and dont recognize them either.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 20:48:42 GMT -5
"If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues."
I don't write that way - too many commas.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 20:50:35 GMT -5
"If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues." I don't write that way - too many commas. Then I may have added the commas--for ease in reading.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 20:50:46 GMT -5
I've been looking for over an hour, and can usually find things I posted pretty easily. Normally you can search the paragraph or the poster's name and keywords and it will come up. I don't think I posted that, and it's not written as I would write it. Did you copy the link, or thread title? Who else was in the conversation? Some have complained that Proboard's search feature isnt working properly...and that PB is working on it. I don't use PB search, I use google advanced search. Like I said, if that quote was posted on TMB I would have found it.
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Post by Greg on Jun 27, 2013 20:52:00 GMT -5
Cherie, please post a link to that quote. You can find it yourself... I have it saved it on my hard drive. Any other clues to a timeframe less than all of 2008? Do you have further text related to that paragraph on your hard drive?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 20:52:01 GMT -5
"If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues." I don't write that way - too many commas. Then I may have added the commas--for ease in reading. That dog don't hunt. There is even less chance I wrote that sentence without commas!
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 20:52:00 GMT -5
Jesse, according to the following TMB quote of yours in 2008, you wanted to edit out the victims comments about the 2x2 history (coverup of the founder Wm Irvine) and exclusivity (only way doctrine). Jesse posted: If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues. For example, this paragraph that was added to the end of Jean Trotter's letter could easily be removed…… It has nothing to do with the abuse issue anyway. If Jean or anyone else wants to include doctrine issues in their story, they should put that on the VOT website, but I recommend edited stories for the abuse website. Jean's paragraph Jesse suggested censoring: Someone gave me a gift book called “The Secret Sect.” I read it and I was really hurt because I had been lied to by everybody (unless they didn't know it). I was always told that “the truth” was started during the Christ era, and only now in 2008 have I found out that it was just started in 1897 by a man named William Irvine. I feel so deceived and betrayed. It looks like my Granddaddy would have been aware of the history of “the truth,” and my worker cousin Carol Castleberry who preaches in Italy. I just can't understand why someone who was aware of the real "beginnings" in Ireland could become attached to “the truth” and consider it to be “God’s only true way.” It’s just another man-made church along with many other man-made churches that exist in the world today. I think the current workers should be held responsible to tell the whole truth about the history of their church. The worker’s cover-up is simply unbelievable; I can hardly fathom it—in a group that calls itself “the truth” no less! IMO, it would be an additional abuse and insult to attempt the muzzle and limit the victims in the telling of their stories.Cherie you just proved my point! That paragraph has NOTHING to do with CSA! Why should it be included on a CSA specific site?? I remember... you wrote Jean's story, or "helped" her write it, didn't you? Did you give Jean that copy of "The Secret Sect" too? Hi Jessie. The real question is, why are you against truth being written as part of the back drop to CSA. The deceit by the workers is a part of the stories. And I find it interesting that the friends and workers still insist on perpetuating the deceit and the cruelty of trying and stop the voices of those that they do not agree with.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 21:10:45 GMT -5
Some have complained that Proboard's search feature isnt working properly...and that PB is working on it. I don't use PB search, I use google advanced search. Like I said, if that quote was posted on TMB I would have found it. Does google search your outgoing PMs?
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Post by Greg on Jun 27, 2013 21:15:43 GMT -5
I searched TMB for Jesse_Lackman 2008 and found a few posts, but none (unless I missed it) that had the wording indicated previously.
I also searched for "Jean Trotter's letter" and only two posts came up. Those two posts are in this thread.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 21:19:23 GMT -5
Hi Jessie. The real question is, why are you against truth being written as part of the back drop to CSA. The deceit by the workers is a part of the stories. And I find it interesting that the friends and workers still insist on perpetuating the deceit and the cruelty of trying and stop the voices of those that they do not agree with. If it's deceit about the CSA fine, but all too often it's not related and not even in the same time frame as the CSA. And then there is the real issue of "leading the witness" - all the influence from agenda driven hard core exes. Notice the same bash words and phrases you see on VOT, VIA TLT etc. with CSA, which is universal across groups, you've got to drill down to the true root cause. There is a great article from Aviation Week and Space Technology about it called "Probe Don't Punish" I could send you if you want. It's too big to upload here. PM your e-mail if your are interested.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 21:23:25 GMT -5
Does google search your outgoing PMs? You didn't post a PM did you? No google can't search PMs, they are private. I read all my PMs to you from 2008 and that quote isn't in any of them. PMs to you are important enough for me to keep!
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Post by ts on Jun 27, 2013 21:42:09 GMT -5
Hi Jessie. The real question is, why are you against truth being written as part of the back drop to CSA. The deceit by the workers is a part of the stories. And I find it interesting that the friends and workers still insist on perpetuating the deceit and the cruelty of trying and stop the voices of those that they do not agree with. If it's deceit about the CSA fine, but all too often it's not related and not even in the same time frame as the CSA. And then there is the real issue of "leading the witness" - all the influence from agenda driven hard core exes. Notice the same bash words and phrases you see on VOT, VIA TLT etc. with CSA, which is universal across groups, you've got to drill down to the true root cause. There is a great article from Aviation Week and Space Technology about it called "Probe Don't Punish" I could send you if you want. It's too big to upload here. PM your e-mail if your are interested. What do you feel is the true root cause of the various CSA cases and cover ups among the Workers? Do you think a Worker who will cover up another type of sexual impropriety would also cover up CSA? or vice versa? Do you think dishonesty in a person can be contained to one area of their lives but honesty prevail in all other areas? Or do you, like myself, think that a person's dishonesty affects all areas of his life?
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Post by fixit on Jun 27, 2013 21:49:22 GMT -5
If this were the reason, why not just insure that all stories are about that? Wings does have control over what letters are posted do they not? (i feel like I'm going back and forth here...but like I said, I have no opinion as to whether I agree with it or not until I hear all sides). Of course WINGS has control of the stories. I and others commented on the non-CSA content on WINGS on the BTS board in 2008, people attacked me for trying to shut victims up, something I didn't intend to do at all. That was back when I thought honey attracted more flies than vinegar: i.e. make WINGS safe for all professing victims - even those who want to remain in the fellowship. I realize now it's not honey or vinegar but another (sadly) all too common substance that attracts the most flies. The WINGS team has changed over the years, back then there were some hard core exes on the WINGS team. (I don't mean Scott Ross). It is interesting that WINGS felt the need to post a disclaimer about the "Breaking the Silence" Stories; “WINGS” administrators take no responsibility for the accuracy of these statements. The opinions expressed, and testimonies received by WINGS are published in good faith of truth and accuracy. These statements, although published on this website, do not reflect the administrators views or opinions." What I've bolded above is an important consideration IMO. WINGS walks a fine line between: 1. Hurting those who write stories by limiting them to CSA-related issues. 2. Hurting those who come to the WINGS site when the last thing they need is anti-2x2 propaganda.
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gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
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Post by gells on Jun 27, 2013 22:00:01 GMT -5
I think that several of you are losing sight of the purpose of WINGS. It is to help the victims of CSA. If there are victims that will not go to this site, because of letters focused on bashing the fellowship, then they are not likely to "break the silence" so to speak. Is it so important to get out this information on this site, that we end up discouraging a victim rather than encouraging them and being a help? There is enough damage that they are trying to deal with (the CSA) without having to deal with other f&W issues. It will come. It takes time and it is a process. Lets encourage a breaking of the silence, not stifle it by discouraging those victims that are still loyal to the F&W. Further realization will come through healing.
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Post by ts on Jun 27, 2013 22:07:08 GMT -5
If this were the reason, why not just insure that all stories are about that? Wings does have control over what letters are posted do they not? (i feel like I'm going back and forth here...but like I said, I have no opinion as to whether I agree with it or not until I hear all sides). Of course WINGS has control of the stories. I and others commented on the non-CSA content on WINGS on the BTS board in 2008, people attacked me for trying to shut victims up, something I didn't intend to do at all. That was back when I thought honey attracted more flies than vinegar: i.e. make WINGS safe for all professing victims - even those who want to remain in the fellowship. I realize now it's not honey or vinegar but another (sadly) all too common substance that attracts the most flies. The WINGS team has changed over the years, back then there were some hard core exes on the WINGS team. (I don't mean Scott Ross). It is interesting that WINGS felt the need to post a disclaimer about the "Breaking the Silence" Stories; “WINGS” administrators take no responsibility for the accuracy of these statements. The opinions expressed, and testimonies received by WINGS are published in good faith of truth and accuracy. These statements, although published on this website, do not reflect the administrators views or opinions." Why were there not some "hard core" Professing people or Overseers or Workers addressing the CSA issues in an open and honest way? Why did they not start their OWN website to help victims of CSA? Were it not for the coverups and inaction and basic ignorance and lack of compassion and understanding of the Overseers and Workers, there would have been no NEED for Wings to begin with.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 22:12:43 GMT -5
Does google search your outgoing PMs? You didn't post a PM did you? No google can't search PMs, they are private. I read all my PMs to you from 2008 and that quote isn't in any of them. PMs to you are important enough for me to keep! The point is, Jesse, that quote by you WAS the essence of your soapbox back when WINGS first went online. You made that loud and clear...in as number of your posts. There was no doubt in any of the WINGS group's mind how you felt about the history and exclusivity being mentioned in CSA stories. I also have on my hard drive some of the WINGS Group's POV concerning your quote... You harped on it enough that we had a roundtable discussion about the issue. Are you denying you felt that way back then? Do you still feel the same way as expressed in your quote?
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Post by ts on Jun 27, 2013 22:16:19 GMT -5
It is not the fault of the victims if the perpetrators are not the ONLY Jerks among the Workers. If the Workers had been actually handling the situations properly it would have been the neat and tidy story that the Friends and Workers are wishing it were. That is:
"The way is perfect but the people aren't. That is evident by the fact that ONCE IN A WHILE a Worker will prove to be human and do a human thing. However, when that happens, the perpetrator is dealt with(passive voice is intentional here) with mercy and kindness and all is forgiven and we move forward forgetting the past and not bringing up anyone's sin. Those who do continue to be offended and bitter and unforgiving normally drop out of the fellowship which they are free to do as they are not in bondage."
Something like that. The "hard core" Workers (which is just about all of them) and Friends have the story told before the incidents even occur no matter how often they occur and no matter how wide spread they are.
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Post by emy on Jun 27, 2013 22:18:26 GMT -5
What do you feel is the true root cause of the various CSA cases and cover ups among the Workers? Do you think a Worker who will cover up another type of sexual impropriety would also cover up CSA? or vice versa? Do you think dishonesty in a person can be contained to one area of their lives but honesty prevail in all other areas? Or do you, like myself, think that a person's dishonesty affects all areas of his life? Is this open for anyone to answer? What do you feel is the true root cause of the various CSA cases and cover ups among the Workers?I think it is lack of knowledge about CSA in years past. Can you give me an example of coverup by workers in the US in the last 5-10 years? I also think that the guilty perps had at least one conference with workers in charge and PROBABLY assured them it would not happen again. I don't think they lied when they said it, but the flesh is weak. Therefore, they were given another chance (or two :b ) in a different location. Have there been incidents of CSA that were handled by moving the guilty since the issue became more visible with the TS case? Do you think a Worker who will cover up another type of sexual impropriety would also cover up CSA? or vice versa?Less likely to cover up CSA Do you think dishonesty in a person can be contained to one area of their lives but honesty prevail in all other areas?
Or do you, like myself, think that a person's dishonesty affects all areas of his life?Dishonesty will definitely affect every area of a person's life, But due to ignorance about the aftereffects of CSA, most would likely not have thought they were being dishonest. Until recent years, many people thought CSA could be forgotten or surmounted with family attention and God's help.
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Post by ts on Jun 27, 2013 22:46:21 GMT -5
What do you feel is the true root cause of the various CSA cases and cover ups among the Workers? Do you think a Worker who will cover up another type of sexual impropriety would also cover up CSA? or vice versa? Do you think dishonesty in a person can be contained to one area of their lives but honesty prevail in all other areas? Or do you, like myself, think that a person's dishonesty affects all areas of his life? Is this open for anyone to answer? What do you feel is the true root cause of the various CSA cases and cover ups among the Workers?I think it is lack of knowledge about CSA in years past. Can you give me an example of coverup by workers in the US in the last 5-10 years? I also think that the guilty perps had at least one conference with workers in charge and PROBABLY assured them it would not happen again. I don't think they lied when they said it, but the flesh is weak. Therefore, they were given another chance (or two :b ) in a different location. Have there been incidents of CSA that were handled by moving the guilty since the issue became more visible with the TS case? Do you think a Worker who will cover up another type of sexual impropriety would also cover up CSA? or vice versa?Less likely to cover up CSA Do you think dishonesty in a person can be contained to one area of their lives but honesty prevail in all other areas?
Or do you, like myself, think that a person's dishonesty affects all areas of his life?Dishonesty will definitely affect every area of a person's life, But due to ignorance about the aftereffects of CSA, most would likely not have thought they were being dishonest. Until recent years, many people thought CSA could be forgotten or surmounted with family attention and God's help. Jerome Frandle is a good example of a cover up. He took a CSA perp home. Ok. He was ignorant. But he was not ignorant enough to try to get out of the charge instead of face it like a man and admit that he was wrong openly and honestly. He spent a lot of money to try to get out of it and tried to claim he wasn't even a clergy. THAT, emy is a recent cover up. Also, you are talking post internet/Wings days. It is VERY sad and SHAMEFUL that the Workers are only as open as they need to be to keep from getting caught. The reason that there is not a cover up now is because they are less likely to get away with it(or perhaps they are just getting more clever). If you want to know of a recent cover up in the sexual impropriety department, go to that letter I sent you about Barry Barkley hearing in front of witnesses Leslie White tell a bald faced lie and tripping up and admitting it. Barry's reaction was NOT normal and what he did later was to....COVER UP!!! You read it, emy. What do you think about it? Shouldn't Barry have had the same reaction to LW's slip up as the elder, victim and other witnesses present? And that Barry did not know of the many other improprieties of LW over the previous decades is very improbable. He had already been censured and moved from CO as a result of protests from sister workers. Cover up. If you look at the details of the Johan Marais case in South America and South Africa, you will see that the Overseers did try to pressure the victim into "forgiving" and letting JM stay in the Work. The victim was simply too strong, had too much support and had them over a barrel with recording the meeting in front of witnesses. Of course they had to send JM out of the Work. But not after carefully covering up the reason that he went home to begin with. That was VERY recent, emy. Just two years ago. The Overseers involved included Duane Hopkins who is STRONGLY tied to the USA and the CSA issues he would be VERY familiar with. I had just spent two years pleading with him and 16 other overseers to get JM out of the Work. I can show you where they covered up and tried to pressure us with the same tactic used on victims of CSA. The ol' "forgive and shut up or you have a wrong spirit" tactic. The Overseers had covered up a sexual impropriety issue with JM for YEARS. They tried to cover up a CSA issue but could not. I have every reason to believe that these same Overseers, still in power, and in countries where communication is not as good as in the States are still doing the same thing. I am glad that the USA overseers are over a barrel. I do not think they have had any change of heart. I think they have just gone through some behavioural modification so that they can protect themselves. I do not see any real care for the sheep and for those who area wounded or else there would be more help given for the victims. I do see the attitude that you have stated. "The Workers are human, too, and make mistakes." Yes, they are human. But that attitude has so often left dangerous(but politically connected) Workers in a place where they continue to harm people. I believe that you and others have a reluctance to admit that much of this "mercy" and "forgiveness" doctrine is false and created by the ones in charge who have a vested interest in preaching it that way. They are more merciful to the perpetrators than they are to the victims. If the victims are angry or bitter for having been violated by a highly esteemed and trusted (supposed) man of God, then they are marginalized. Shameful.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 22:47:41 GMT -5
I think that several of you are losing sight of the purpose of WINGS. It is to help the victims of CSA. If there are victims that will not go to this site, because of letters focused on bashing the fellowship, then they are not likely to "break the silence" so to speak. Is it so important to get out this information on this site, that we end up discouraging a victim rather than encouraging them and being a help? There is enough damage that they are trying to deal with (the CSA) without having to deal with other f&W issues. It will come. It takes time and it is a process. Lets encourage a breaking of the silence, not stifle it by discouraging those victims that are still loyal to the F&W. Further realization will come through healing. On the contrary - dealing with the history and realizing the F&W Fellowship is not God's ONLY true church has helped some victims to heal, as evidenced by some of the victims stories. The 2x2 history IS inextricably tied to the healing of those CSA victims who were B&R, which Jean was. Allow me to explain. Many victims were raised to believe they were part of God’s only true way on earth. Along comes a nice, friendly respected worker who befriends you, courts you, talks pretty to you--and then sexually abuses you. He further betrays you by letting you take unwarranted blame and suffer shame and sometimes punishment. He doesn’t apologize. You are left with the effects of CSA which permeates and utterly ruins your life. Your Abuser is an authority in God's only true church that is alleged to be “perfect,” and yet he has done this atrocity to you. Further some people recognize this child molester as a “Man of God,” and highly revere him. The “justice” of it all is mind boggling. It makes no sense. For you to get to heaven, you believe you MUST be in this way. That means you must submit to his authority and that of others like him. Authority figures you DO NOT & CANNOT TRUST. Its an endless cycle of despair and depression. You don’t want to go to hell. You cringe in fear at the thought; have nightmares about it. You are depressed—yet you cannot make yourself be a part of a church that allows and enables men like him to do this and to continue to do it to others. You live in agony that you will die at any moment and go to hell. A CSA victim believing the church is “God’s only way” has MAJOR COGNITIVE DISSONANCE! Due to this, you require medication and counseling just to function physically and go on living every day of your life. WHY? All because you believe the lie that that church is “God’s only true way.” You have no way to deal with your emotions toward this man. You hate him. You cannot begin to think of forgiving him. Yet workers and family tell you the Bible says that you MUST forgive him or you will go to hell. They also tell you that you must come back to the church you ran away from to get away from your abuser because it’s God's only true way. If/When the Victim discovers that the F&W church wasnt started with Jesus on the shores of Galilee, but rather was started by a man a little over 110 years ago—they usually realize that means it is not God’s only way on earth—Jesus is "the only way." They don’t have to be or stay inside that particular church to get to heaven. They realize they wont go to hell for refusing to be a part of a religious system that enabled men to abuse them, a system that cares more about the Abuser than the Victims. Learning the F&W church isn’t “God’s only way,” and finding out that the workers do not have a franchise on God lets the prisoner go free if s/he chooses. Now you finally have is peace in an area where there had been much pain, agony, guilt, etc. There is a gentle ebbing away of some of the cognitive dissonance…they no longer feel they have to be a part of something their Abuser is a part of, and they don’t have to submit to him and/or others like him to get to Heaven. For B&R adult victims of CSA—learning that the workers’ church is not God’s only way (thru the history) can play a HUGE part in their healing and finding peace. This historical truth becomes a door that allows the CSA Victim to pass thru and escape their cognitive dissonance. They are no longer trapped. They can even worship in another church if they choose, once they realize God is not found only in this one particular church. Sure most victims may still have a long way to go to recover, if they ever do, but the trap has been sprung. History opens doors that were previously closed to them. IMO, that's why learning about the F&W history is important to some CSA victims...and some on here want to edit that part of the victim's experience out of their stories!!! Jesse has gone on record saying he doesnt believe the F&W fellowship is God's ONLY way...so why doth he protest so much about it being mentioned in the CSA stories?
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Post by ts on Jun 27, 2013 23:17:53 GMT -5
Well said, Cherie.
I know what I believed and taught. At one time in my life, I would have been up batting for Linford, Jesse and emy and virgo and kiwi and noels.
I would have soaked in every justification and cliche that the Workers use to explain things away and to keep from making obvious connections between history, exclusivity and CSA.
I would have isolated the incidents of CSA to one individual separating the individuals actions from the rest of the group and not taken any responsibility myself for preaching false doctrine(which I believed to be true).
I would have draped a cloth around the injury and separated the injured part of the body from the rest of the body, just like the workers do to the victims.
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Post by jondough on Jun 27, 2013 23:49:30 GMT -5
When is it wrong to expose truth? To tell the truth.
I'm not talking about heresy. I'm not talking about opinion.
I'm talking about pure and honest truth. The truth as in true facts. True facts as in our history. True facts as in someones actual experiences.
I guess my question would be, when can true facts become damaging - if ever?
Can someone tell me how truth can be a bad thing to expose or talk about?
It is my opinion that the more truth a person knows, whether an innie or an ex...the more they can be grounded in "truth"....more grounded in something solid.....something real.
Now I understand that someones reputation can be needlessly tarnished. But I believe in the case of Wings, names are discriminately left out. So if truth is told, with this in mind, where is the damage?
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Post by emy on Jun 28, 2013 0:16:44 GMT -5
Well said, Cherie. I know what I believed and taught. At one time in my life, I would have been up batting for Linford, Jesse and emy and virgo and kiwi and noels.
I would have soaked in every justification and cliche that the Workers use to explain things away and to keep from making obvious connections between history, exclusivity and CSA. I would have isolated the incidents of CSA to one individual separating the individuals actions from the rest of the group and not taken any responsibility myself for preaching false doctrine(which I believed to be true). I would have draped a cloth around the injury and separated the injured part of the body from the rest of the body, just like the workers do to the victims. You forgot to include Scott, What and maybe some others, not 'innies.' Have you forgiven yourself for preaching doctrine that you didn't know was false? Have you contacted all the people who listened to your "untrue" doctrine to ask forgiveness and steer them in the right direction? Do you hold workers who didn't know the dangers of CSA to a different standard from yourself and refuse to forgive them? Consider these rhetorical questions because I already know the gist of your answers. After all, Mr. Grey concludes that doctrine you taught makes the fellowship you were in a "particularly dangerous cult."
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