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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 18:43:40 GMT -5
Besides the fact that the stories have been relegated to a bulletin board like the TMB- which does not carry the same weight as an officially maintained website, but a LOG IN is required to be able to see the stories. How many people will not be able to see the stories as a result? Very PAINFUL stories that took COURAGE to write and POST to Wings to begin with? The victims stories were moved from the Penthouse (the Wings site) to a Outhouse that requires a key (a free Proboards site). That'll teach 'em.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 19:03:42 GMT -5
If you care about CSA victims, you will avail yourself of the information and discussion that is on the BTS forum. There is a large public area there, and it is easy to log in. Please use the forum as much as possible. Those who are victims need to know that people care.
Here is an announcement from that forum that those who are keeping close to this issue would have found there 2 weeks ago:
PROGRESS
« Thread Started on Jun 10, 2013, 9:21pm » Dear Readers, Tonight I want to share something with you that was passed on to me recently. At a gathering workers were told by Barry Barkley: You are mandated reporters, regardless of what your state law is. You will report in a timely manner, what you see, what you suspect, what you hear and what you are told. You will make that call to the authorities and you will get a log number to keep on record. When asked what about reporting it to an overseer it was said that it is your choice. You can if you want, it's not required but regardless you will report it to the law.
This is nothing short of a miracle. How long have we been waiting for this to happen?? Our hearts are thanking God for this very monumental development and we hope and pray that this practice will spread to other states (the West) and other countries.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 19:09:06 GMT -5
If you care about CSA victims, you will avail yourself of the information and discussion that is on the BTS forum." Again, such a comment is beneath you. "If you care about CSA victims". Indeed. Again, I went to the site. I clicked on " Abuse Survivor Stories"- and was met with the login screen that I posted earlier. Did folks have to login to read the stories when they were on the Wings site? This is adding a road block and guarantees that the stories will not be read by most that hit the site.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 19:14:11 GMT -5
If you care about CSA victims, you will avail yourself of the information and discussion that is on the BTS forum." Again, such a comment is beneath you. "If you care about CSA victims". Indeed. Again, I went to the site. I clicked on " Abuse Survivor Stories"- and was met with the login screen that I posted earlier. Did folks have to login to read the stories when they were on the Wings site? This is adding a road block and guarantees that the stories will not be read by most that hit the site. I think you do care about CSA victims. I think anyone who does will get involved on the BTS site. Please do, you are most welcome there and the stories are available to the public there. There is a private section on the BTS which is restricted to victims only however.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 19:21:00 GMT -5
Again, such a comment is beneath you. "If you care about CSA victims". Indeed. Again, I went to the site. I clicked on " Abuse Survivor Stories"- and was met with the login screen that I posted earlier. Did folks have to login to read the stories when they were on the Wings site? This is adding a road block and guarantees that the stories will not be read by most that hit the site. I think you do care about CSA victims. I think anyone who does will get involved on the BTS site. Please do, you are most welcome there and the stories are available to the public there. There is a private section on the BTS which is restricted to victims only however. Why are the abuse survivor stories private? Were they private on the Wings site? That is my point as that is the stories that we are talking about, right. Why are they being hidden behind a login?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 19:26:14 GMT -5
I think you do care about CSA victims. I think anyone who does will get involved on the BTS site. Please do, you are most welcome there and the stories are available to the public there. There is a private section on the BTS which is restricted to victims only however. Why are the abuse survivor stories private? Were they private on the Wings site? That is my point as that is the stories that we are talking about, right. Why are they being hidden behind a login? Please spend some time on the BTS and familiarize yourself with it. There is a private section that is for survivors only but that is where private discussion occurs and those stories remain strictly out of the public realm. The stories that I think you are looking for are in (or will be in) the public section, open to the public.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 19:29:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 19:47:56 GMT -5
Wings can go weeks with no interaction or post on the site. I find it very disappointing most of the time that there is so little interaction or posting. I go weeks myself without checking it because there is so little activity. Just go look at the dates on the post.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 19:48:03 GMT -5
Why are the abuse survivor stories private? Were they private on the Wings site? That is my point as that is the stories that we are talking about, right. Why are they being hidden behind a login? Please spend some time on the BTS and familiarize yourself with it. There is a private section that is for survivors only but that is where private discussion occurs and those stories remain strictly out of the public realm. The stories that I think you are looking for are in (or will be in) the public section, open to the public. You are kind of proving my point. I am very experienced with web design. That doesn't make me an expert, but I am used to creating, browsing, and even using a Proboards forum- after all- I have quite a few years experience on this board. So, silly me, I thought that by clicking on "Abuse Survivor Stories" that that would take me to "Abuse Survivor Stories", but instead, I am taken to a login screen. There is NO mention about that section being PRIVATE only. You are proving my point by telling me to first "familiarize myself with the site", so that I guess, I can better understand how to find the "Abuse Survivor Stories" as the link that says that it is for "Abuse Survivor Stories" is not the "Abuse Survivor Stories" that I should be clicking on. Makes perfect sense. Do you expect ALL USERS to the site to have to "familiarize themselves with the site" so that they can find the stories? I am not trying to be obtuse- I am being very serious. Again- here is the screen shot:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 21:36:01 GMT -5
Wings can go weeks with no interaction or post on the site. I find it very disappointing most of the time that there is so little interaction or posting. I go weeks myself without checking it because there is so little activity. Just go look at the dates on the post. That is exactly why we are encouraging more people to get involved and increase the traffic on BTS.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 21:41:26 GMT -5
Please spend some time on the BTS and familiarize yourself with it. There is a private section that is for survivors only but that is where private discussion occurs and those stories remain strictly out of the public realm. The stories that I think you are looking for are in (or will be in) the public section, open to the public. You are kind of proving my point. I am very experienced with web design. That doesn't make me an expert, but I am used to creating, browsing, and even using a Proboards forum- after all- I have quite a few years experience on this board. So, silly me, I thought that by clicking on "Abuse Survivor Stories" that that would take me to "Abuse Survivor Stories", but instead, I am taken to a login screen. There is NO mention about that section being PRIVATE only. You are proving my point by telling me to first "familiarize myself with the site", so that I guess, I can better understand how to find the "Abuse Survivor Stories" as the link that says that it is for "Abuse Survivor Stories" is not the "Abuse Survivor Stories" that I should be clicking on. Makes perfect sense. Do you expect ALL USERS to the site to have to "familiarize themselves with the site" so that they can find the stories? I am not trying to be obtuse- I am being very serious. Again- here is the screen shot: Absolutely. Anyone genuinely interested in this with take a few moments to get access to the site. After that, as you know, you can keep yourself logged in. I never log in. When I click a link to the site, I'm there. As you can see from Marie's post, we need more good people there. There is a need for it.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 26, 2013 23:05:37 GMT -5
Please spend some time on the BTS and familiarize yourself with it. There is a private section that is for survivors only but that is where private discussion occurs and those stories remain strictly out of the public realm. The stories that I think you are looking for are in (or will be in) the public section, open to the public. You are kind of proving my point. I am very experienced with web design. That doesn't make me an expert, but I am used to creating, browsing, and even using a Proboards forum- after all- I have quite a few years experience on this board. So, silly me, I thought that by clicking on "Abuse Survivor Stories" that that would take me to "Abuse Survivor Stories", but instead, I am taken to a login screen. There is NO mention about that section being PRIVATE only. You are proving my point by telling me to first "familiarize myself with the site", so that I guess, I can better understand how to find the "Abuse Survivor Stories" as the link that says that it is for "Abuse Survivor Stories" is not the "Abuse Survivor Stories" that I should be clicking on. Makes perfect sense. Do you expect ALL USERS to the site to have to "familiarize themselves with the site" so that they can find the stories? I am not trying to be obtuse- I am being very serious. Again- here is the screen shot: Mr Sacerdotal...... until we get the stories all moved, or at least a majority of them, only admins can view that particular section of the BTS board. Then it will be open to public viewing, and you will not need to register in order to read what is posted there. On that section of the board, each story will have its own thread, and only admins will be able to post or add to what is there. I am curious as to whether you have ever read the stories when they were on WINGS? I ask, because the steps needed to read a story are essentially the same as you will have to do now. First you would have to click on the Breaking the Silence section of WINGS (which you still have to do) and then click on each individual story in order to read it (which you still will have to do). The only difference is the link to where they will be posted. Feel free to call WINGS the penthouse. I think it is a well designed site, and a very nice upgrade to WINGS. Also, feel free to call the BTS board the outhouse. It says something about you to call the WINGS BTS board an outhouse, when it is the one board out there that is geared mainly for abuse survivors to have a place to post as they wish. Originally, only registered members could even post there, and then we opened parts of it up for general viewing. So go ahead and let all the abuse survivors who have registered there know what you think of their board.......
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 23:18:40 GMT -5
So go ahead and let all the abuse survivors who have registered there know what you think of their board....... No, I am telling you that moving the stories from the Wings site is reprehensible giving the reason that you gave- to engage more workers to point people to the site. Although, I must say, the quote used at the bottom of the Wings site is pure propaganda for the fellowship. Why didn't you put a quote by one of the worker's victims- rather than a quote of a user saying that she could not enjoy the beauty of truth until Wings helped her get past the abuse of her father. Wow. Pure propaganda for the 2x2s. Proboards are a dime a dozen. You know that. I am sorry that it is an inconvenient truth for you. I have heard from 2 of the victims/survivors- and as you yourself know- they are not happy that their stories were moved. It sure seems as if you sold you soul to the workers- the question is why? They have every chance to help the victims- but instead- fight against doing the right thing in an open and honest manner every step of the way. You know that. So, the question is why are you capitulating to what the workers want. I have been told by some that know, that there has been kickback against the survivor stories since day 1, so, it looks like those that wanted the stories removed- and I have heard from them to and their reasons for wanting the stories removed- have won. I need to PM the fellow back and tell him congratulations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 23:26:44 GMT -5
So go ahead and let all the abuse survivors who have registered there know what you think of their board....... No, I am telling you that moving the stories from the Wings site is reprehensible giving the reason that you gave- to engage more workers to point people to the site. Although, I must say, the quote used at the bottom of the Wings site is pure propaganda for the fellowship. Why didn't you put a quote by one of the worker's victims- rather than a quote of a user saying that she could not enjoy the beauty of truth until Wings helped her get past the abuse of her father. Wow. Pure propaganda for the 2x2s. Proboards are a dime a dozen. You know that. I am sorry that it is an inconvenient truth for you. I have heard from 2 of the victims/survivors- and as you yourself know- they are not happy that their stories were moved. It sure seems as if you sold you soul to the workers- the question is why? They have every chance to help the victims- but instead- fight against doing the right thing in an open and honest manner every step of the way. You know that. So, the question is why are you capitulating to what the workers want. I have been told by some that know, that there has been kickback against the survivor stories since day 1, so, it looks like those that wanted the stories removed- and I have heard from them to and their reasons for wanting the stories removed- have won. I need to PM the fellow back and tell him congratulations. Be careful you aren't becoming the football in a game of political football. Just sayin'.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 23:35:09 GMT -5
No, I am telling you that moving the stories from the Wings site is reprehensible giving the reason that you gave- to engage more workers to point people to the site. Although, I must say, the quote used at the bottom of the Wings site is pure propaganda for the fellowship. Why didn't you put a quote by one of the worker's victims- rather than a quote of a user saying that she could not enjoy the beauty of truth until Wings helped her get past the abuse of her father. Wow. Pure propaganda for the 2x2s. Proboards are a dime a dozen. You know that. I am sorry that it is an inconvenient truth for you. I have heard from 2 of the victims/survivors- and as you yourself know- they are not happy that their stories were moved. It sure seems as if you sold you soul to the workers- the question is why? They have every chance to help the victims- but instead- fight against doing the right thing in an open and honest manner every step of the way. You know that. So, the question is why are you capitulating to what the workers want. I have been told by some that know, that there has been kickback against the survivor stories since day 1, so, it looks like those that wanted the stories removed- and I have heard from them to and their reasons for wanting the stories removed- have won. I need to PM the fellow back and tell him congratulations. Be careful you aren't becoming the football in a game of political football. Just sayin'. You don't know me at all, do you? Just saying. I am well versed in the workers tactics. They taught me well. Oh well. You win some, you lose some.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 23:44:25 GMT -5
Be careful you aren't becoming the football in a game of political football. Just sayin'. You don't know me at all, do you? Just saying. I am well versed in the workers tactics. They taught me well. Oh well. You win some, you lose some. If you are operating under your schooling of workers' tactics only, my suggestion stands. Workers' tactics are not sophisticated. Ask questions, lots of them from all directions, without a preconceived idea of the answers. The truth will emerge. Workers' tactics typically make a decision, then ask the questions....it's pretty crude really.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 23:51:20 GMT -5
You don't know me at all, do you? Just saying. I am well versed in the workers tactics. They taught me well. Oh well. You win some, you lose some. If you are operating under your schooling of workers' tactics only, my suggestion stands. Workers' tactics are not sophisticated. Ask questions, lots of them from all directions, without a preconceived idea of the answers. The truth will emerge. Workers' tactics typically make a decision, then ask the questions....it's pretty crude really. Question 1: Why are you fighting so hard to have the survivors/victims stories moved to a messageboard?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 0:03:37 GMT -5
It takes, maybe, 5 minutes to create a Proboards site like the BTS or the TMB. Sure, more time has to go into setting up security and topics, but it doesn't take long. Here is a screenshot of creating a new Proboards site. So, in 5 minutes someone, anyone- could have a Proboards site up titled "MolestedByWorkers" and then we could all feel good about ourselves for providing the victims a place to talk and call it a day.
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Post by ScholarGal on Jun 27, 2013 1:08:21 GMT -5
It takes, maybe, 5 minutes to create a Proboards site like the BTS or the TMB. Sure, more time has to go into setting up security and topics, but it doesn't take long. Here is a screenshot of creating a new Proboards site. So, in 5 minutes someone, anyone- could have a Proboards site up titled "MolestedByWorkers" and then we could all feel good about ourselves for providing the victims a place to talk and call it a day. Anyone can buy a domain name and set up a website. What gives wingsfortruth.info credibility? If the same people are responsible for putting the victim stories in a public read-only section of a board they moderate and administer, shouldn't those stories have the same amount of credibility?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 7:00:49 GMT -5
If you are operating under your schooling of workers' tactics only, my suggestion stands. Workers' tactics are not sophisticated. Ask questions, lots of them from all directions, without a preconceived idea of the answers. The truth will emerge. Workers' tactics typically make a decision, then ask the questions....it's pretty crude really. Question 1: Why are you fighting so hard to have the survivors/victims stories moved to a messageboard? I'm just answering the questions the best I know how, trying to be open and accountable. I could ignore these threads much easier but that doesn't seem right.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 7:03:21 GMT -5
It takes, maybe, 5 minutes to create a Proboards site like the BTS or the TMB. Sure, more time has to go into setting up security and topics, but it doesn't take long. Here is a screenshot of creating a new Proboards site. So, in 5 minutes someone, anyone- could have a Proboards site up titled "MolestedByWorkers" and then we could all feel good about ourselves for providing the victims a place to talk and call it a day. It takes even less effort to enter the board and read the stories. Anyone can do it.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:10:11 GMT -5
It takes, maybe, 5 minutes to create a Proboards site like the BTS or the TMB. Sure, more time has to go into setting up security and topics, but it doesn't take long. Here is a screenshot of creating a new Proboards site. So, in 5 minutes someone, anyone- could have a Proboards site up titled "MolestedByWorkers" and then we could all feel good about ourselves for providing the victims a place to talk and call it a day. It takes even less effort to enter the board and read the stories. Anyone can do it. No they can't. Scott said that the stories are currently not up and that is why I cannot get into that area but am locked out. I think that this is the source of confusion. I keep getting a login screen, but Scott said that that will be going away. I still stand by my opinions on this- moving the stories to the BTS is relagating them to a position that they are less likely to be taken seriously- especially coming from a Google link.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:12:35 GMT -5
Question 1: Why are you fighting so hard to have the survivors/victims stories moved to a messageboard? I'm just answering the questions the best I know how, trying to be open and accountable. I could ignore these threads much easier but that doesn't seem right. And I appreciate it. But you didn't answer the question. Why the push to move the stories? What changed?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:20:43 GMT -5
If the same people are responsible for putting the victim stories in a public read-only section of a board they moderate and administer, shouldn't those stories have the same amount of credibility? Yes, of course. But, suppose you don't know anything about Wings, and you perform a Google search and come across a link to the stories on the BTS site. You never hit Wings. You go straight to the Proboards site. Unless I know the participants on a messageboard, I take everything with a huge dose of skepticism that a user writes. The same thing with the Huffington Post- I don't even bother reading HuffPo articles- they do not have credibility. Same thing with Wikipedia. I usually check to see how well sourced the Wiki is before attaching too much weight to it. Wings has credibility- therefore the stories have more credence when they are posted on the website. But the question remains- why move the stories to begin with. I was told that there were 2x2s that fought tooth and nail to not have the stories on the Wings site to begin with, and it looks like they have now gotten their way. But the question is now, what else is Wings going to "water down" to ensure that the fellowship looks good. The quote that they currently have on their home page is quite frankly nauseating in its cheerleading for the 2x2s.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 8:33:29 GMT -5
I'm just answering the questions the best I know how, trying to be open and accountable. I could ignore these threads much easier but that doesn't seem right. And I appreciate it. But you didn't answer the question. Why the push to move the stories? What changed? I have answered that in many posts and from many different angles and on several different threads. I kinda figured you weren't listening! When I get a chance, I will summarize my views on it, but it's all there in my previous posts. I don't have much new to add.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:38:45 GMT -5
And I appreciate it. But you didn't answer the question. Why the push to move the stories? What changed? I have answered that in many posts and from many different angles and on several different threads. I kinda figured you weren't listening! When I get a chance, I will summarize my views on it, but it's all there in my previous posts. I don't have much new to add. I am listening- but I hoping that I am misunderstanding, because your answers and reasons appear sinister- move the victim statements because it is offensive to some friends and workers and you want more friend and worker buy in to the site. Right? That is just plain wrong, in my opinion, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 8:47:47 GMT -5
I have answered that in many posts and from many different angles and on several different threads. I kinda figured you weren't listening! When I get a chance, I will summarize my views on it, but it's all there in my previous posts. I don't have much new to add. I am listening- but I hoping that I am misunderstanding, because your answers and reasons appear sinister- move the victim statements because it is offensive to some friends and workers and you want more friend and worker buy in to the site. Right? That is just plain wrong, in my opinion, of course. No, you weren't listening. At least not to me anyway.....maybe someone else.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:51:03 GMT -5
I am listening- but I hoping that I am misunderstanding, because your answers and reasons appear sinister- move the victim statements because it is offensive to some friends and workers and you want more friend and worker buy in to the site. Right? That is just plain wrong, in my opinion, of course. No, you weren't listening. At least not to me anyway.....maybe someone else. OK, doubt me, that is fine. Have your tried clicking on the links that I tried on the BTS? I saw where you had been out on it within the past 24 hours. I get a login message even for the Welcome Mat link. Try logging out and not saving your login or having auto login turned on and see what you get.
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