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Post by jondough on Jun 27, 2013 8:52:24 GMT -5
I'm just answering the questions the best I know how, trying to be open and accountable. I could ignore these threads much easier but that doesn't seem right. And I appreciate it. But you didn't answer the question. Why the push to move the stories? What changed? I think this is a fair question. Maybe I missed the answer in an earlier post on another thread. But, I ask the same thing, what was wrong with the way it was before? Something motivated the change. After all, it is taking some effort to make the change. Effort by people that, like CD said earlier, are already very busy with their own jobs. I think that no one can argue that anytime there is a link leading to a different site, it WILL get read less. When I am on a site, and have to follow a link to some other site for more info, I would say half the time I skip over it. There are several reasons. 1. I am unsure of where it will take me. 2. I may not be finished with this site, and its leading me away before I'm finished. 3. time and inconvenience. 4. Many links also include advertisements and pop-ups. i am also of the opinion that real stories with real names, and real people/victims behind them, legitimizes the site, and the need of it. To add to SD's argument, and I know CD can appreciate this. There are VERY few sites that the friends will actually go to on the internet. Most of this junk is of the Devil. Wings is one of the very few sites that you can actually talk about, and admit that you visit and not have to worry about how you are perceived. i have never heard it bad mouthed by any of the friends. It is one of the very few sites that is in the eyes of F&W legit, and to a very small extent, endorsed. So to move something to another site called BTS (and I've never been there so know nothing about it) and claim there is no difference....BTS less the T. I'm also curious. What changed?
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Post by rational on Jun 27, 2013 10:01:43 GMT -5
No they can't. Scott said that the stories are currently not up and that is why I cannot get into that area but am locked out. I think that this is the source of confusion. I keep getting a login screen, but Scott said that that will be going away. Isn't the reason the stories are not available because it takes time to move and link them? If I recall, you had not looked at the stories when they were up and available and now during the transition you are looking for instant gratification.
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Post by jondough on Jun 27, 2013 10:25:15 GMT -5
Maybe Wings has done this...but I think what would really help in decision making would be to come up with a "mission statement". Make sure everyone (Wings Board) agrees with all wording of the "mission statement". I like to see mission statements written right on the home page of a website.
Then, whatever decisions are made. If they are questionable, you go right back to the mission statement and ask yourself the question "will this help attain our mission, or will it hinder?".
Just to clarify...I am neither for or against what they have done in regards to the victims letters. I was simply asking the same question....what has changed? There must be a reason for the effort. And also pointing out the fact that there is a difference between a link, and having information immediately available.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 10:49:01 GMT -5
jondough wrote: I think that no one can argue that anytime there is a link leading to a different site, it WILL get read less. When I am on a site, and have to follow a link to some other site for more info, I would say half the time I skip over it. There are several reasons. 1. I am unsure of where it will take me. 2. I may not be finished with this site, and its leading me away before I'm finished. 3. time and inconvenience. 4. Many links also include advertisements and pop-ups.
My thoughts exactly. If its possible to include in my TMB posts some material thats is located in another website--I do it, for I know a link is far less likely to be followed and read, for the reasons jondough pointed out above.
Right now the BTS board cannot be viewed without registering - a further hindrance to getting to the stories.
Ram - as things stand now--and also in the location where WINGS plans on the BTS board--the stories are far from being easily assessed. It's like they're located at the end of a maze.
CD: Are you saying that the BTS board WILL become a public board that can be viewed without being registered? (but not posted on unless registered?)
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 12:04:02 GMT -5
If I recall, you had not looked at the stories when they were up and available and now during the transition you are looking for instant gratification. No, I personally am not interested in reading the stories. I don't want to read the stories now. I want to know why the feelings of the friends and workers were given more priority than the victims as to the reasoning that has been given for stories being moved from a legitimate website to a message board. It seems that the thought was the some people were using the stories as a way to "beat up" the 2x2 system and that the workers might not feel comfortable sending people to Wings as a result. I only went to the trouble of tracking down the stories, or trying to, to prove that both sites aren't equal. Others, like Jon Dough and Cherie have given valid points on that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 12:43:05 GMT -5
Ram - as things stand now--and also in the location where WINGS plans on the BTS board--the stories are far from being easily assessed. It's like they're located at the end of a maze.
Thanks Cherie. My earlier remarks on the subject were not in support of the change in relation to the Victims' stories, but made as a suggestion that a Proboards link could be used to publish the article about spiritual abuse for interested parties. Better this than nothing, at least meantime.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 13:04:41 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this?
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Post by blandie on Jun 27, 2013 13:23:46 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this? I guess I get the point. Something on a proboard discussion site including TMB doesn't carry any real weight. The posts could be fake or by anybody and aren't taken very seriously as with a website where someone has at least registered it and stands behind it more than a chat room - thats the universal impression at least. I also know people who are paranoid about social media and clicking links that lead off a site and some old antivirus software used to have settings that put up warnings that could scare people. Putting up a second site must have a reason and raises the question so I'm not understanding why either even though what I'm reading says the question has been answered.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 14:17:03 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this? I guess I get the point. Something on a proboard discussion site including TMB doesn't carry any real weight. The posts could be fake or by anybody and aren't taken very seriously as with a website where someone has at least registered it and stands behind it more than a chat room - thats the universal impression at least. I also know people who are paranoid about social media and clicking links that lead off a site and some old antivirus software used to have settings that put up warnings that could scare people. Putting up a second site must have a reason and raises the question so I'm not understanding why either even though what I'm reading says the question has been answered. Exactly. The reason given by Scott and Clearday was that some 2x2s and workers "might" feel that some of the victims were using their stories to "beat up" the fellowship rather than make their story about CSA, and as a result, some workers might feel reluctant to send people to the Wings site. So, in an effort to remain "neutral" the decision was made by someone to move the stories to the BTS forum. Yours and Jon Doughs perceptions of a message board is the same as mine- a message board doesn't carry any real weight and isn't taken as seriously as a website. The proponents of the move don't want to acknowledge this and keep saying that there is no difference- that the stories are just a click away. A click that takes the user away from the Wings site- is that seriously what they want- to take users away from their site- that is the opposite of what most webmasters want- as Cherie has already stated. Also, I count about 11-15 tracking cookies on the TMB alone. Is a free message board that makes their money off of gathering user info REALLY the place for the victims to tell their experiences?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 14:21:05 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this? The real question is- why did you have a problem with the stories being on the Wings site? Perhaps you could help the rest of us understand something that on the surface makes no sense- that of moving the stories from Wings- especially without getting buy in from the victims first.
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Post by jondough on Jun 27, 2013 14:28:01 GMT -5
In all honesty, I really feel like the real reason is not being said. Maybe for a good reason...I wonder if the real reason is so that the workers will endorse (for a lack of a better term) the site. This may be a very good reason. If jointly, the board at wings have decided that it is most likely that a victim will first go to a worker for help, and that by the workers endorsing the site - will give the workers a place to send a victim to immediately. I can completely understand the reasoning. Even more so, if the workers use the site as pro-activeness within their staff, and begin using Wings guidelines for themselves. All this is very good, and a huge step in the right direction. Maybe the condition for all this are the changes....If so....make the changes.
The important thing is for everyone to realize that the purpose of those letters, nor any of the Wings site, is not there for anyone's entertainment. Even more, the purpose of the site is also not for bashing the fellowship, or put it in a bad light (thats what TMB is for). The purpose is as follows;
This is from the Wings site:
Our objective is to provide information, support and guidance on every aspect of CSA and to support victims of CSA. Our ultimate hope is to encourage change within the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored.
So let's be honest.....Pro-activeness is substantially more effective than re-activeness. The very most effective way in helping with CSA problems is preventing it before it occurs. Isn't the only way to do this, with the Workers cooperation? So ultimately, if the objective is the above....and the reason for the changes is for the workers endorsement. Is it really a bad thing?
I might be completely on the wrong track here, but just trying to guess as to why the changes. If I am on the wrong track, hopefully the changes are with the above objective in mind.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 14:39:51 GMT -5
In all honesty, I really feel like the real reason is not being said. Maybe for a good reason...I wonder if the real reason is so that the workers will endorse (for a lack of a better term) the site. This may be a very good reason. If jointly, the board at wings have decided that it is most likely that a victim will first go to a worker for help, and that by the workers endorsing the site - will give the workers a place to send a victim to immediately. I can completely understand the reasoning. Even more so, if the workers use the site as pro-activeness within their staff, and begin using Wings guidelines for themselves. All this is very good, and a huge step in the right direction. Maybe the condition for all this are the changes....If so....make the changes. The important thing is for everyone to realize that the purpose of those letters, nor any of the Wings site, is not there for anyone's entertainment. Even more, the purpose of the site is also not for bashing the fellowship, or put it in a bad light (thats what TMB is for). The purpose is as follows; This is from the Wings site: Our objective is to provide information, support and guidance on every aspect of CSA and to support victims of CSA. Our ultimate hope is to encourage change within the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored.So let's be honest.....Pro-activeness is substantially more effective than re-activeness. The very most effective way in helping with CSA problems is preventing it before it occurs. Isn't the only way to do this, with the Workers cooperation? So ultimately, if the objective is the above....and the reason for the changes is for the workers endorsement. Is it really a bad thing? I might be completely on the wrong track here, but just trying to guess as to why the changes. If I am on the wrong track, hopefully the changes are with the above objective in mind. No, you are completely right as to the REASON GIVEN. But that reason doesn't make sense when you realize that the workers can help anytime they want! No one is stopping them. Who is stopping them from using Wings now? Who is stopping them from sending out an email or letters to all of the elders about Wings? No one. As one victim has stated- HE DOESN'T WANT THE WORKERS INVOLVED. Many of the victims were HURT BY THE WORKERS! And received no help or apology UP TO THIS DAY from the workers. TS contacted 16 overseers (at least 3 of whom have had to step down allegedly for sexual issues) to investigate a sexually active worker. Not one worker helped. Barry Barkley simply lectured TS and his wife, and if I remember correctly, even brought her to tears with his harshness. This was recent. Not ancient history. It looks like to me that the chickens are allowing the foxes to run the henhouse.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 14:42:38 GMT -5
This is from the Wings site: Our objective is to provide information, support and guidance on every aspect of CSA and to support victims of CSA. Our ultimate hope is to encourage change within the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored.Did you see these objectives as well on the front page of the Wings site? Reduce the potential for child sexual abuse (CSA); Establish accepted processes to follow when there are allegations of child sexual abuse; Reduce the potential for false CSA allegations against workers; and Promote cooperative relationships with, and attitudes toward, law enforcement agencies, including the criminal justice and child protection systems.
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Post by emy on Jun 27, 2013 15:08:59 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this? The real question is- why did you have a problem with the stories being on the Wings site? Perhaps you could help the rest of us understand something that on the surface makes no sense- that of moving the stories from Wings- especially without getting buy in from the victims first. You have inside info that Jesse was involved in the decision?
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Post by emy on Jun 27, 2013 15:19:36 GMT -5
Besides the fact that the stories have been relegated to a bulletin board like the TMB- which does not carry the same weight as an officially maintained website, but a LOG IN is required to be able to see the stories. How many people will not be able to see the stories as a result? Very PAINFUL stories that took COURAGE to write and POST to Wings to begin with? I don't know whether to be relieved or upset that theTMB is less credible than "some" sites. Since I am honest and above-board in my contributions here, I assumed nearly everyone else is, too, with just a very few exceptions.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 27, 2013 15:25:35 GMT -5
It takes even less effort to enter the board and read the stories. Anyone can do it. No they can't. Scott said that the stories are currently not up and that is why I cannot get into that area but am locked out. I think that this is the source of confusion. I keep getting a login screen, but Scott said that that will be going away. I still stand by my opinions on this- moving the stories to the BTS is relagating them to a position that they are less likely to be taken seriously- especially coming from a Google link. I think the no-thiner problem on this WINGS issue is the fact that we all know that the workers have spoken out against these proboards in such derogatory words that any 2x2 would feel like they were bucking the workers to be surfing on ProBoards to find the BTS site...also the BTS site is the victims' proboards and they are also given less status by the workers....the old words that the workers have spoken out against the internet sites where people meet together and discuss their experiences of the fellowship are an anathema to the workers and they speak out against those sites with vigor...I have seen no change of that in the workership now.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 15:49:10 GMT -5
It took one mouse click off the home page to access the "Breaking the Silence" stories on the old WINGS site. When the WINGS team is finished with posting the stories to the BTS board they will be able to be accessed with one mouse click off the home page, exactly the same as before. Why are people having such a problem with this? The real question is- why did you have a problem with the stories being on the Wings site? Perhaps you could help the rest of us understand something that on the surface makes no sense- that of moving the stories from Wings- especially without getting buy in from the victims first. That's the "real" question huh? This is why I don't post anymore, people insist on having conversations with someone they imagine to be me but who is not the real me. I didn't have a problem with having Breaking the Silence CSA survivor stories on WINGS. I had a problem with the broad brush non-CSA bash content in some of those stories. There is a difference. I had a problem with the bash content because of the potential it had to turn victims, and those who may have wanted to help, away from WINGS. For example of a "Breaking the Silence" story that's 90%+ bash content read this; web.archive.org/web/20080607175438/http://wingsfortruth.info/kentgriggs2.htm
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 16:32:09 GMT -5
The real question is- why did you have a problem with the stories being on the Wings site? Perhaps you could help the rest of us understand something that on the surface makes no sense- that of moving the stories from Wings- especially without getting buy in from the victims first. That's the "real" question huh? This is why I don't post anymore, people insist on having conversations with someone they imagine to be me but who is not the real me. I didn't have a problem with having Breaking the Silence CSA survivor stories on WINGS. I had a problem with the broad brush non-CSA bash content in some of those stories. There is a difference. I had a problem with the bash content because of the potential it had to turn victims, and those who may have wanted to help, away from WINGS. For example of a "Breaking the Silence" story that's 90%+ bash content read this; web.archive.org/web/20080607175438/http://wingsfortruth.info/kentgriggs2.htm I bash - hard- against the unjust policies of the workers. They need to be bashed- and unapologetically so- I certainly don't apologize for standing up to the tyranny and unfair practices. It is what it is. I am glad for my 2x2 upbringing, I am glad to be raising my children in a 2x2 tradition, but I do not teach them to idolize the workers, to shun others as people have shunned us, and as you are now trying to do with the stories that you don't approve of- have them shunned. It is a time honored 2x2 tradition.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 16:44:41 GMT -5
The real question is- why did you have a problem with the stories being on the Wings site? Perhaps you could help the rest of us understand something that on the surface makes no sense- that of moving the stories from Wings- especially without getting buy in from the victims first. That's the "real" question huh? This is why I don't post anymore, people insist on having conversations with someone they imagine to be me but who is not the real me. I didn't have a problem with having Breaking the Silence CSA survivor stories on WINGS. I had a problem with the broad brush non-CSA bash content in some of those stories. There is a difference. I had a problem with the bash content because of the potential it had to turn victims, and those who may have wanted to help, away from WINGS. For example of a "Breaking the Silence" story that's 90%+ bash content read this; web.archive.org/web/20080607175438/http://wingsfortruth.info/kentgriggs2.htm Thanks for sharing that, Jesse. That was a heart wrenching tale. How did that in anyway bash truth? It IS TRUTH. My upbringing was very similar- minus the drugs- although I did know of kids that did drugs while professing- as well as lots of premarital sex. It is what it is. His dysfunctional upbringing sounds almost identical to my upbringing. Those tales HAVE to be told and seen Jesse. I was helped and encouraged reading it. I don't think less of the workers because of it- but I do thank less of the workers as they seek to condemn and isolate any like this man that spoke the truth. It is what it is. And it will stay like it is until the friends say, "No more!" and stop the tradition of worker worship.
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Post by rational on Jun 27, 2013 16:45:16 GMT -5
No, I personally am not interested in reading the stories. I don't want to read the stories now. I want to know why the feelings of the friends and workers were given more priority than the victims as to the reasoning that has been given for stories being moved from a legitimate website to a message board. It seems that the thought was the some people were using the stories as a way to "beat up" the 2x2 system and that the workers might not feel comfortable sending people to Wings as a result. From what I had read this did not seem to be the case. The cases that were recorded were at times relating not to the CSA that was taking place as a result of the workers but because of family dynamics that was then implied to be caused by membership in the F&W. Setting up a WWW site that is useable or setting up a discussion board that is useable both take time and effort. They provide the user with two different experiences. In one you get the creator's opinion only and in the other you may have a place where the opinion of the creator is manifest but there is usually a place for the readers to comment as well. If both are well designed and maintained I am not sure one has any more legitimacy than the other.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -5
That's the "real" question huh? This is why I don't post anymore, people insist on having conversations with someone they imagine to be me but who is not the real me. I didn't have a problem with having Breaking the Silence CSA survivor stories on WINGS. I had a problem with the broad brush non-CSA bash content in some of those stories. There is a difference. I had a problem with the bash content because of the potential it had to turn victims, and those who may have wanted to help, away from WINGS. For example of a "Breaking the Silence" story that's 90%+ bash content read this; web.archive.org/web/20080607175438/http://wingsfortruth.info/kentgriggs2.htm Thanks for sharing that, Jesse. That was a heart wrenching tale. How did that in anyway bash truth? It IS TRUTH. My upbringing was very similar- minus the drugs- although I did know of kids that did drugs while professing- as well as lots of premarital sex. It is what it is. His dysfunctional upbringing sounds almost identical to my upbringing. Those tales HAVE to be told and seen Jesse. I was helped and encouraged reading it. I don't think less of the workers because of it- but I do thank less of the workers as they seek to condemn and isolate any like this man that spoke the truth. It is what it is. And it will stay like it is until the friends say, "No more!" and stop the tradition of worker worship. It's not about CSA, why should it be on a CSA specific site? If all someone wants to do is broad brush bash send the story to VIA, TLT, etc. Imagine a real CSA victim, wanting to stay in the fellowship, going to WINGS for CSA help and reading that? It has turned people away from WINGS, I know because I've talked to them.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 17:07:59 GMT -5
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Post by jondough on Jun 27, 2013 17:13:12 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that, Jesse. That was a heart wrenching tale. How did that in anyway bash truth? It IS TRUTH. My upbringing was very similar- minus the drugs- although I did know of kids that did drugs while professing- as well as lots of premarital sex. It is what it is. His dysfunctional upbringing sounds almost identical to my upbringing. Those tales HAVE to be told and seen Jesse. I was helped and encouraged reading it. I don't think less of the workers because of it- but I do thank less of the workers as they seek to condemn and isolate any like this man that spoke the truth. It is what it is. And it will stay like it is until the friends say, "No more!" and stop the tradition of worker worship. It's not about CSA, why should it be on a CSA specific site? If all someone wants to do is broad brush bash send the story to VIA, TLT, etc. Imagine a real CSA victim, wanting to stay in the fellowship, going to WINGS for CSA help and reading that? It has turned people away from WINGS, I know because I've talked to them. If this were the reason, why not just insure that all stories are about that? Wings does have control over what letters are posted do they not? (i feel like I'm going back and forth here...but like I said, I have no opinion as to whether I agree with it or not until I hear all sides).
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 17:20:32 GMT -5
No, I personally am not interested in reading the stories. I don't want to read the stories now. I want to know why the feelings of the friends and workers were given more priority than the victims as to the reasoning that has been given for stories being moved from a legitimate website to a message board. It seems that the thought was the some people were using the stories as a way to "beat up" the 2x2 system and that the workers might not feel comfortable sending people to Wings as a result. You don't want to read the stories, wow that's cool. The idea that the friends and workers were ever given priority over CSA victims is a figment of your imagination. My concerns were not about the friends and workers feeling comfortable about sending people to WINGS - my concerns were about professing CSA victims feeling comfortable going to WINGS when they saw the exact same non CSA bash talk they see on VOT, VIA, TLT etc.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 17:39:00 GMT -5
If this were the reason, why not just insure that all stories are about that? Wings does have control over what letters are posted do they not? (i feel like I'm going back and forth here...but like I said, I have no opinion as to whether I agree with it or not until I hear all sides). Of course WINGS has control of the stories. I and others commented on the non-CSA content on WINGS on the BTS board in 2008, people attacked me for trying to shut victims up, something I didn't intend to do at all. That was back when I thought honey attracted more flies than vinegar: i.e. make WINGS safe for all professing victims - even those who want to remain in the fellowship. I realize now it's not honey or vinegar but another (sadly) all too common substance that attracts the most flies. The WINGS team has changed over the years, back then there were some hard core exes on the WINGS team. (I don't mean Scott Ross). It is interesting that WINGS felt the need to post a disclaimer about the "Breaking the Silence" Stories; “WINGS” administrators take no responsibility for the accuracy of these statements. The opinions expressed, and testimonies received by WINGS are published in good faith of truth and accuracy. These statements, although published on this website, do not reflect the administrators views or opinions."
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2013 17:45:05 GMT -5
No, I personally am not interested in reading the stories. I don't want to read the stories now. I want to know why the feelings of the friends and workers were given more priority than the victims as to the reasoning that has been given for stories being moved from a legitimate website to a message board. It seems that the thought was the some people were using the stories as a way to "beat up" the 2x2 system and that the workers might not feel comfortable sending people to Wings as a result. You don't want to read the stories, wow that's cool. The idea that the friends and workers were ever given priority over CSA victims is a figment of your imagination. My concerns were not about the friends and workers feeling comfortable about sending people to WINGS - my concerns were about professing CSA victims feeling comfortable going to WINGS when they saw the exact same non CSA bash talk they see on VOT, VIA, TLT etc. Jesse, according to the following TMB quote of yours in 2008, you wanted to edit out the victims comments about the 2x2 history (coverup of the founder Wm Irvine) and exclusivity (only way doctrine). Jesse posted: If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues. For example, this paragraph that was added to the end of Jean Trotter's letter could easily be removed…… It has nothing to do with the abuse issue anyway. If Jean or anyone else wants to include doctrine issues in their story, they should put that on the VOT website, but I recommend edited stories for the abuse website. Jean's paragraph Jesse suggested censoring: Someone gave me a gift book called “The Secret Sect.” I read it and I was really hurt because I had been lied to by everybody (unless they didn't know it). I was always told that “the truth” was started during the Christ era, and only now in 2008 have I found out that it was just started in 1897 by a man named William Irvine. I feel so deceived and betrayed. It looks like my Granddaddy would have been aware of the history of “the truth,” and my worker cousin Carol Castleberry who preaches in Italy. I just can't understand why someone who was aware of the real "beginnings" in Ireland could become attached to “the truth” and consider it to be “God’s only true way.” It’s just another man-made church along with many other man-made churches that exist in the world today. I think the current workers should be held responsible to tell the whole truth about the history of their church. The worker’s cover-up is simply unbelievable; I can hardly fathom it—in a group that calls itself “the truth” no less! IMO, it would be an additional abuse and insult to attempt the muzzle and limit the victims in the telling of their stories.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 18:36:29 GMT -5
Jesse, according to the following TMB quote of yours in 2008, you wanted to edit out the victims comments about the 2x2 history (coverup of the founder Wm Irvine) and exclusivity (only way doctrine). Jesse posted: If this site is expected to be used by workers as a reference point, and for workers to refer others to for help, in my opinion, it should be tweaked a bit, so that it is concentrated solely on abuse issues, and not on doctrine issues. For example, this paragraph that was added to the end of Jean Trotter's letter could easily be removed…… It has nothing to do with the abuse issue anyway. If Jean or anyone else wants to include doctrine issues in their story, they should put that on the VOT website, but I recommend edited stories for the abuse website. Jean's paragraph Jesse suggested censoring: Someone gave me a gift book called “The Secret Sect.” I read it and I was really hurt because I had been lied to by everybody (unless they didn't know it). I was always told that “the truth” was started during the Christ era, and only now in 2008 have I found out that it was just started in 1897 by a man named William Irvine. I feel so deceived and betrayed. It looks like my Granddaddy would have been aware of the history of “the truth,” and my worker cousin Carol Castleberry who preaches in Italy. I just can't understand why someone who was aware of the real "beginnings" in Ireland could become attached to “the truth” and consider it to be “God’s only true way.” It’s just another man-made church along with many other man-made churches that exist in the world today. I think the current workers should be held responsible to tell the whole truth about the history of their church. The worker’s cover-up is simply unbelievable; I can hardly fathom it—in a group that calls itself “the truth” no less! IMO, it would be an additional abuse and insult to attempt the muzzle and limit the victims in the telling of their stories.Cherie you just proved my point! That paragraph has NOTHING to do with CSA! Why should it be included on a CSA specific site?? I remember... you wrote Jean's story, or "helped" her write it, didn't you? Did you give Jean that copy of "The Secret Sect" too?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 27, 2013 18:57:15 GMT -5
Cherie, please post a link to that quote.
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