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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 2, 2012 20:44:37 GMT -5
The sad thing about these healing miracles you claim to be true is, they still have to die. Why would you want to be raised from the dead? Not my claim. These signs will follow Jesus' disciples. there are probably numerable reasons why one would want or need to be raised from the dead. If one has not fulfilled what they are supposed to on this earth, they might appreciate being raised from the dead. The fact is, if you believe the scriptures at all you will have to admit that quite a few people were raised from the dead. People are still being raised from the dead even today. How many were raised from the dead? How many is quite a few. Are they still living today?
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2012 21:05:30 GMT -5
Not my claim. These signs will follow Jesus' disciples. there are probably numerable reasons why one would want or need to be raised from the dead. If one has not fulfilled what they are supposed to on this earth, they might appreciate being raised from the dead. The fact is, if you believe the scriptures at all you will have to admit that quite a few people were raised from the dead. People are still being raised from the dead even today. How many were raised from the dead? How many is quite a few. Are they still living today? When Jesus arose from the dead, there were many of the saints who also arose from the dead. Jesus brought at least two people from the dead that I can think of. Elijah in his lifetime brought at least one from the dead. Elisha might have also...I will have to read that again. I get them confused. One man was raised from the dead when they threw his body hastily into Elisha's tomb and his body hit the bones of Elisha. There was that much virtue left in Elisha's body for his dead bones to raise the dead. Why did God not keep those souls or let Satan keep them? I don't know. I just know it happens and it is not out of line and unscriptural for us as Christians to be open the the reality and possibility of raising the dead or healing should the Holy Spirit direct us to do so as He did Jesus from time to time.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 2, 2012 21:10:03 GMT -5
How many were raised from the dead? How many is quite a few. Are they still living today? When Jesus arose from the dead, there were many of the saints who also arose from the dead. Jesus brought at least two people from the dead that I can think of. Elijah in his lifetime brought at least one from the dead. Elisha might have also...I will have to read that again. I get them confused. One man was raised from the dead when they threw his body hastily into Elisha's tomb and his body hit the bones of Elisha. There was that much virtue left in Elisha's body for his dead bones to raise the dead. Why did God not keep those souls or let Satan keep them? I don't know. I just know it happens and it is not out of line and unscriptural for us as Christians to be open the the reality and possibility of raising the dead or healing should the Holy Spirit direct us to do so as He did Jesus from time to time. 2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band [of men]; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2012 21:18:46 GMT -5
If you saw a person raised from the dead, would it change any of your beliefs about anything? Jesus said that there are those who would not believe even if one were raised from the dead.
What if you saw one who was demon possessed and got a spirit cast out of them in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything. There are some of the workers who were unaffected by such an event in Mexico. I am sure that there are many Christians like them who just do not have healing, casting out demons and raising the dead as a part of their modern day belief system. I am sure that there were many modern day folks just like them in Jesus' day and before.
Every age is "modern day" in that day. We are human and are not really any different than they were then. We either believe or we don't. Some will never be convinced of God's power and will lack faith.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 2, 2012 21:23:46 GMT -5
How many were raised from the dead? How many is quite a few. Are they still living today? When Jesus arose from the dead, there were many of the saints who also arose from the dead. Jesus brought at least two people from the dead that I can think of. Elijah in his lifetime brought at least one from the dead. Elisha might have also...I will have to read that again. I get them confused. One man was raised from the dead when they threw his body hastily into Elisha's tomb and his body hit the bones of Elisha. There was that much virtue left in Elisha's body for his dead bones to raise the dead. Why did God not keep those souls or let Satan keep them? I don't know. I just know it happens and it is not out of line and unscriptural for us as Christians to be open the the reality and possibility of raising the dead or healing should the Holy Spirit direct us to do so as He did Jesus from time to time. I appreciate the thought of being open to the direction of he Holy Spirit. There is though a big difference between being resurrected and being raised from the dead.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 2, 2012 21:29:29 GMT -5
If you saw a person raised from the dead, would it change any of your beliefs about anything? Jesus said that there are those who would not believe even if one were raised from the dead. What if you saw one who was demon possessed and got a spirit cast out of them in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything. There are some of the workers who were unaffected by such an event in Mexico. I am sure that there are many Christians like them who just do not have healing, casting out demons and raising the dead as a part of their modern day belief system. I am sure that there were many modern day folks just like them in Jesus' day and before. Every age is "modern day" in that day. We are human and are not really any different than they were then. We either believe or we don't. Some will never be convinced of God's power and will lack faith. If a person could do as you mention, casting out demons and raising from the dead. I am sure there would be multitudes thronging them. Do you believe in praying to Mary and the saints? Some claim release from demons and healing that way too.
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2012 21:38:25 GMT -5
If you saw a person raised from the dead, would it change any of your beliefs about anything? Jesus said that there are those who would not believe even if one were raised from the dead. What if you saw one who was demon possessed and got a spirit cast out of them in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything. There are some of the workers who were unaffected by such an event in Mexico. I am sure that there are many Christians like them who just do not have healing, casting out demons and raising the dead as a part of their modern day belief system. I am sure that there were many modern day folks just like them in Jesus' day and before. Every age is "modern day" in that day. We are human and are not really any different than they were then. We either believe or we don't. Some will never be convinced of God's power and will lack faith. If a person could do as you mention, casting out demons and raising from the dead. I am sure there would be multitudes thronging them. Do you believe in praying to Mary and the saints? Some claim release from demons and healing that way too. I am talking about a worker who cast out a demon and the other workers really had a hard time believing it. And having confirmed that it really did happen, they did not change their doctrine, talk to the workers about it and let them know that Jesus' words are literal even today. We have power over demons and demons do possess people. The lady who was possessed is professing to this day, as far as I know. She was when I was there because I met her and her professing husband. I was companions with the man who cast her out and companions with one of the men who went to confirm it. Jim Price was present when it happened. You can ask him.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 3, 2012 12:44:19 GMT -5
If you saw a person raised from the dead, would it change any of your beliefs about anything? Jesus said that there are those who would not believe even if one were raised from the dead. What if you saw one who was demon possessed and got a spirit cast out of them in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything. There are some of the workers who were unaffected by such an event in Mexico. I am sure that there are many Christians like them who just do not have healing, casting out demons and raising the dead as a part of their modern day belief system. I am sure that there were many modern day folks just like them in Jesus' day and before. Every age is "modern day" in that day. We are human and are not really any different than they were then. We either believe or we don't. Some will never be convinced of God's power and will lack faith. Today, there was a lady who has some strange religious ideas, kind of mixing up beliefs out of several denominations....she stated that she believed that Jesus "heals" man completely, spirit AND body. Now, in the days of Jesus and before, the people seemed to be cursed by their sins and were made sick and diseased and when they did certain things and brought sacrifice to the Temple they would be healed. But she continued to command that ALL flesh can behealed....I told her I didn't believe that God would want all of the body to be healed for then we wouldn't degenerate into sickness and never die...then it would be we would never get to our eternal life. I told her I believed that God allows certain tests to some people to make them stronger and then be able to help others.....I think the situation with Job is an example....Job never got made and cursed God, he did feel sorry for himself and the way humans look at it, he deserved a big of self pity...but in the end of it, God held Job up before his friends and told his friends they were wrong to browbeat him while he was down. But back to this lady this morning, I asked her if what she said was true, why then are babies born defective, how can she answer to people with crippling rheumatoid and psoaratic arthritis? People with cancer, people with genetic physical problems....IF Jesus intended that the whole physical and spiritual person within one body was to be "healed" 100 per cent? She couldn't answer.... Not long ago the police got a warrant to arrest a family which ended up being a man with 2 or 3 women who each had his babies and the babies all wer about the same age...I think it was 3...and the babies were found in their cribs or playpens very malnourished with Similac in cases not to far away....they also were found to having been given drugs to keep them quiet....these babies were about 4-6 mos. old Apparnetly, the whole family was doing nothing but drugs to be asleep all the time and the adult included the babies in that....2 of the babies were life-lifted to the children's hospital in Little Rock, AR I think one of them did die within the next day or two, the other one had to be resusitated but lived, but will be brain damaged and likely will have many health problems if it continues to live. The 3 rd baby was pretty sick and the withdrawals nearly killed it, but was finally released from the hospital but taken to a local children's nursing home. The other baby was brought back to the same nursing home. But this lady was bound and determined that all 3 babies would live, they would never have a health problem the rest of their lives and they would not be retarded due to what the lack of care. I told her she needed to go into that nursing home at look at some of the druggy babies and young children and then come tell me that they would be completely healed, that God would not do that to a baby....I started to tell her to talk to Rational, but I think she'd soon hit Rat over the head....lah! BTW, it seems to me that what all of this non-healing is about IS because the Bridegroom of our soul is not with us and we are to grieve, fast and pray until His return and that is when all will be well....I think that's something like Jesus said it.
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Post by rational on Aug 3, 2012 16:35:28 GMT -5
BTW, it seems to me that what all of this non-healing is about IS because the Bridegroom of our soul is not with us and we are to grieve, fast and pray until His return and that is when all will be well....I think that's something like Jesus said it. Since there has never been any indication that this healing is anything more than anecdotal stories, the principal of Occam's razor would lead to the conclusion that the non-healing is the case.
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Post by ts on Aug 3, 2012 20:29:44 GMT -5
If you saw a person raised from the dead, would it change any of your beliefs about anything? Jesus said that there are those who would not believe even if one were raised from the dead. What if you saw one who was demon possessed and got a spirit cast out of them in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything. There are some of the workers who were unaffected by such an event in Mexico. I am sure that there are many Christians like them who just do not have healing, casting out demons and raising the dead as a part of their modern day belief system. I am sure that there were many modern day folks just like them in Jesus' day and before. Every age is "modern day" in that day. We are human and are not really any different than they were then. We either believe or we don't. Some will never be convinced of God's power and will lack faith. Today, there was a lady who has some strange religious ideas, kind of mixing up beliefs out of several denominations....she stated that she believed that Jesus "heals" man completely, spirit AND body. Now, in the days of Jesus and before, the people seemed to be cursed by their sins and were made sick and diseased and when they did certain things and brought sacrifice to the Temple they would be healed. But she continued to command that ALL flesh can behealed....I told her I didn't believe that God would want all of the body to be healed for then we wouldn't degenerate into sickness and never die...then it would be we would never get to our eternal life. I told her I believed that God allows certain tests to some people to make them stronger and then be able to help others.....I think the situation with Job is an example....Job never got made and cursed God, he did feel sorry for himself and the way humans look at it, he deserved a big of self pity...but in the end of it, God held Job up before his friends and told his friends they were wrong to browbeat him while he was down. But back to this lady this morning, I asked her if what she said was true, why then are babies born defective, how can she answer to people with crippling rheumatoid and psoaratic arthritis? People with cancer, people with genetic physical problems....IF Jesus intended that the whole physical and spiritual person within one body was to be "healed" 100 per cent? She couldn't answer.... Not long ago the police got a warrant to arrest a family which ended up being a man with 2 or 3 women who each had his babies and the babies all wer about the same age...I think it was 3...and the babies were found in their cribs or playpens very malnourished with Similac in cases not to far away....they also were found to having been given drugs to keep them quiet....these babies were about 4-6 mos. old Apparnetly, the whole family was doing nothing but drugs to be asleep all the time and the adult included the babies in that....2 of the babies were life-lifted to the children's hospital in Little Rock, AR I think one of them did die within the next day or two, the other one had to be resusitated but lived, but will be brain damaged and likely will have many health problems if it continues to live. The 3 rd baby was pretty sick and the withdrawals nearly killed it, but was finally released from the hospital but taken to a local children's nursing home. The other baby was brought back to the same nursing home. But this lady was bound and determined that all 3 babies would live, they would never have a health problem the rest of their lives and they would not be retarded due to what the lack of care. I told her she needed to go into that nursing home at look at some of the druggy babies and young children and then come tell me that they would be completely healed, that God would not do that to a baby....I started to tell her to talk to Rational, but I think she'd soon hit Rat over the head....lah! BTW, it seems to me that what all of this non-healing is about IS because the Bridegroom of our soul is not with us and we are to grieve, fast and pray until His return and that is when all will be well....I think that's something like Jesus said it. Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 3, 2012 20:38:39 GMT -5
It says of Jesus he could no great miracle there except heal a few sick folks
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Post by sharonw on Aug 3, 2012 20:39:11 GMT -5
Today, there was a lady who has some strange religious ideas, kind of mixing up beliefs out of several denominations....she stated that she believed that Jesus "heals" man completely, spirit AND body. Now, in the days of Jesus and before, the people seemed to be cursed by their sins and were made sick and diseased and when they did certain things and brought sacrifice to the Temple they would be healed. But she continued to command that ALL flesh can behealed....I told her I didn't believe that God would want all of the body to be healed for then we wouldn't degenerate into sickness and never die...then it would be we would never get to our eternal life. I told her I believed that God allows certain tests to some people to make them stronger and then be able to help others.....I think the situation with Job is an example....Job never got made and cursed God, he did feel sorry for himself and the way humans look at it, he deserved a big of self pity...but in the end of it, God held Job up before his friends and told his friends they were wrong to browbeat him while he was down. But back to this lady this morning, I asked her if what she said was true, why then are babies born defective, how can she answer to people with crippling rheumatoid and psoaratic arthritis? People with cancer, people with genetic physical problems....IF Jesus intended that the whole physical and spiritual person within one body was to be "healed" 100 per cent? She couldn't answer.... Not long ago the police got a warrant to arrest a family which ended up being a man with 2 or 3 women who each had his babies and the babies all wer about the same age...I think it was 3...and the babies were found in their cribs or playpens very malnourished with Similac in cases not to far away....they also were found to having been given drugs to keep them quiet....these babies were about 4-6 mos. old Apparnetly, the whole family was doing nothing but drugs to be asleep all the time and the adult included the babies in that....2 of the babies were life-lifted to the children's hospital in Little Rock, AR I think one of them did die within the next day or two, the other one had to be resusitated but lived, but will be brain damaged and likely will have many health problems if it continues to live. The 3 rd baby was pretty sick and the withdrawals nearly killed it, but was finally released from the hospital but taken to a local children's nursing home. The other baby was brought back to the same nursing home. But this lady was bound and determined that all 3 babies would live, they would never have a health problem the rest of their lives and they would not be retarded due to what the lack of care. I told her she needed to go into that nursing home at look at some of the druggy babies and young children and then come tell me that they would be completely healed, that God would not do that to a baby....I started to tell her to talk to Rational, but I think she'd soon hit Rat over the head....lah! BTW, it seems to me that what all of this non-healing is about IS because the Bridegroom of our soul is not with us and we are to grieve, fast and pray until His return and that is when all will be well....I think that's something like Jesus said it. Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age. Yes, TS, I know there are a lot of "healings" physically and I know that is why God has moved men and women to study and become medical personnel, so that we don't have to wait for a chance to meet our Saviour walking from town to town as they did in Jesus' day or having our friends to lower us through the roof of the house before Jesus or someone else like Paul. THIS is the source of blessings from God in these modern days simply because there are new medical discoveries happening all the time. Now as to spiritual healing, it is a very personal relationship with Jesus and it is a one on one relationship, though for some it takes preaching from someone for them to get into that one on one relationship with Jesus. As to the "demon possessions", could it really be a healing or is it someone playacting? Or maybe had a demon, but then they some psychiatric medication that finally started to work for them? Or is it simply healing by time?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 3, 2012 20:43:19 GMT -5
Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age. Yes, TS, I know there are a lot of "healings" physically and I know that is why God has moved men and women to study and become medical personnel, so that we don't have to wait for a chance to meet our Saviour walking from town to town as they did in Jesus' day or having our friends to lower us through the roof of the house before Jesus or someone else like Paul. THIS is the source of blessings from God in these modern days simply because there are new medical discoveries happening all the time. Now as to spiritual healing, it is a very personal relationship with Jesus and it is a one on one relationship, though for some it takes preaching from someone for them to get into that one on one relationship with Jesus. As to the "demon possessions", could it really be a healing or is it someone playacting? Or maybe had a demon, but then they some psychiatric medication that finally started to work for them? Or is it simply healing by time? Right on the money Sharon.
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Post by ts on Aug 3, 2012 20:49:30 GMT -5
It says of Jesus he could no great miracle there except heal a few sick folks because of their unbelief. That is very likely why we do not see more healing today. Not enough worship. Not enough faith.
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Post by ts on Aug 3, 2012 20:51:53 GMT -5
Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age. Yes, TS, I know there are a lot of "healings" physically and I know that is why God has moved men and women to study and become medical personnel, so that we don't have to wait for a chance to meet our Saviour walking from town to town as they did in Jesus' day or having our friends to lower us through the roof of the house before Jesus or someone else like Paul. THIS is the source of blessings from God in these modern days simply because there are new medical discoveries happening all the time. Now as to spiritual healing, it is a very personal relationship with Jesus and it is a one on one relationship, though for some it takes preaching from someone for them to get into that one on one relationship with Jesus. As to the "demon possessions", could it really be a healing or is it someone playacting? Or maybe had a demon, but then they some psychiatric medication that finally started to work for them? Or is it simply healing by time? Demons are real. They do possess people. and they can be cast out in the name of Jesus. Do you think that Jesus was casting out demons or just medicating psychiatric cases?
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Post by rational on Aug 4, 2012 11:54:00 GMT -5
Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age. Do you have a single verified example? I've seen it on Benny Hinn but they look questionable. I've seen the cases that were followed up and the outcome does not speak to "healed".
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Post by rational on Aug 4, 2012 11:56:58 GMT -5
If a person could do as you mention, casting out demons and raising from the dead. I am sure there would be multitudes thronging them. Do you believe in praying to Mary and the saints? Some claim release from demons and healing that way too. You are right. Look at the crowds at the 'faith healing' gatherings. And it has been demonstrated they are frauds!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 12:54:50 GMT -5
Yet, there are people who are healed. There are people possessed with demons who get them cast out in the name of Jesus. and there are people who are raised from the dead. It happens in our day and age. Do you have a single verified example? I've seen it on Benny Hinn but they look questionable. I've seen the cases that were followed up and the outcome does not speak to "healed". Benny Hinn would be your most credible source of confirmation, which speaks volumes in itself.
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Post by rational on Aug 4, 2012 13:28:05 GMT -5
As to the "demon possessions", could it really be a healing or is it someone playacting? Or maybe had a demon, but then they some psychiatric medication that finally started to work for them? Or is it simply healing by time? Read The Faith Healers. It explains a lot about how these things work. Notice there is no record of a limb being replaced. Anyone who has worked with psychotic people knows how quickly and completely their behavior can change. With or without medication.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 4, 2012 15:37:56 GMT -5
Spiritualists speak with the dead. Are they following Jesus ts?
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Post by ts on Aug 4, 2012 17:53:22 GMT -5
Spiritualists speak with the dead. Are they following Jesus ts? It was spiritualists that the people in Mexico who are now professing got involved in and she got demon possessed. It was the power of Jesus and the authority of the servant of God(the worker) who cast out the demon. the "dead" that spiritualists speak to are demons impersonating the dead people. And, yes, it is real.
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Post by rational on Aug 4, 2012 18:12:36 GMT -5
Spiritualists speak with the dead. Are they following Jesus ts? Spiritualists claim to speak with the dead. When asked to verify this ability it has never worked out.
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Post by rational on Aug 4, 2012 18:14:30 GMT -5
Do you have a single verified example? I've seen it on Benny Hinn but they look questionable. I've seen the cases that were followed up and the outcome does not speak to "healed". Benny Hinn would be your most credible source of confirmation, which speaks volumes in itself. I don't believe I said BH was the source of confirmation. It was his claims that were being verified.
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Post by ts on Aug 4, 2012 20:19:45 GMT -5
Spiritualists speak with the dead. Are they following Jesus ts? Do you have any confidence in Jim Price, Linford? If so, ask him what he witnessed in Mexico. He is an overseer and, as such, should be credible and easily accessible and approachable. You can probably locate him within two or three phone calls. No sense bantering with me over it. Go to the source.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 20:22:25 GMT -5
Benny Hinn would be your most credible source of confirmation, which speaks volumes in itself. I don't believe I said BH was the source of confirmation. It was his claims that were being verified. Just a bit of humour. Benny Hinn has no credibility as far as I know.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 4, 2012 20:26:31 GMT -5
Spiritualists speak with the dead. Are they following Jesus ts? Do you have any confidence in Jim Price, Linford? If so, ask him what he witnessed in Mexico. He is an overseer and, as such, should be credible and easily accessible and approachable. You can probably locate him within two or three phone calls. No sense bantering with me over it. Go to the source. I'm not saying I don't believe it happened. It's not eternal life though,and it's not proof of salvation.
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Post by ts on Aug 4, 2012 20:31:32 GMT -5
Do you have any confidence in Jim Price, Linford? If so, ask him what he witnessed in Mexico. He is an overseer and, as such, should be credible and easily accessible and approachable. You can probably locate him within two or three phone calls. No sense bantering with me over it. Go to the source. I'm not saying I don't believe it happened. It's not eternal life though,and it's not proof of salvation. Were we talking about salvation? I am glad that you believe it. What was your point in asking if Spiritualists talking to the dead had anything to do with following Jesus? It sounded sarcastic to me and I don't understand why the sarcasm if you believe that spirits are real.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 4, 2012 20:34:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying I don't believe it happened. It's not eternal life though,and it's not proof of salvation. Were we talking about salvation? I am glad that you believe it. What was your point in asking if Spiritualists talking to the dead had anything to do with following Jesus? It sounded sarcastic to me and I don't understand why the sarcasm if you believe that spirits are real. What would be the accomplishment of raising people from the dead? Or healing a body that is going back to dust?
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