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Post by ts on Jul 25, 2012 16:18:29 GMT -5
Is Leslie White a worker?
If not, when did he cease to be a worker?
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Post by sharonw on Jul 25, 2012 16:53:29 GMT -5
TS, you and I both know that LW is just biding his time in the case that he is released from the allegations against him......so to ask if he is a worker.....the only way that he would not be a worker is by his own choices unless he is charged and convicted of the allegations that are before him now. He may well decide to become another friend or ex-friend and marry someone to take care of him the rest of his days...I feel there are plenty of women in the fellowship who would willingly take him on...
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Post by ts on Jul 25, 2012 17:25:03 GMT -5
TS, you and I both know that LW is just biding his time in the case that he is released from the allegations against him......so to ask if he is a worker.....the only way that he would not be a worker is by his own choices unless he is charged and convicted of the allegations that are before him now. He may well decide to become another friend or ex-friend and marry someone to take care of him the rest of his days...I feel there are plenty of women in the fellowship who would willingly take him on... He either is a worker or isn't
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Post by quizzer on Jul 25, 2012 17:46:55 GMT -5
Instead of ex-worker, axed-worker?
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Post by ts on Jul 25, 2012 18:05:09 GMT -5
Instead of ex-worker, axed-worker? when did Lesley White cease to meet the job description of a worker?
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bulsi
Junior Member
WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
Posts: 197
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Post by bulsi on Jul 25, 2012 18:16:09 GMT -5
Yes he is a "Worker" . Someone like all of us weak in our natural body. yes a sinner too........ We have a lot of self righteous people here that would like to give their point of view and stir the pot...... Why is he not in jail? Or Charges for that matter...... Just Gossip! So be very careful . And maybe its time Workers marry. They want to slander his name but will just put SW for the accusing party
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Post by ts on Jul 25, 2012 20:53:46 GMT -5
Yes he is a "Worker" . Someone like all of us weak in our natural body. yes a sinner too........ We have a lot of self righteous people here that would like to give their point of view and stir the pot...... Why is he not in jail? Or Charges for that matter...... Just Gossip! So be very careful . And maybe its time Workers marry. They want to slander his name but will just put SW for the accusing party Self righteousness is bad. Why did you put "worker" in quotes? Is Leslie White a worker or a "worker"? We are all sinners, Does that mean we are all workers? Is that what you are saying? If a person misbehaves over long periods of time and shows no sign of repentance, he must not consider the recognition of bad behaviour to be "slander". I take it by your reaction that you do not mind workers excommunicating or limiting fellowship for the friends who "sin" or question workers. Do you mind if workers slander the friends who point out their abuses? Are abusive workers really workers? Aren't the ones who fight for the weak not the ones who are really workers?
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Post by sharonw on Jul 25, 2012 21:44:18 GMT -5
TS, As I tried to say Yes, LW is still a worker even though he is not active....and unless he is charged and convicted on the allegations he will remain a worker until he either decides he doesn't want to be a worker until he dies and he gets married, buys a car, house etc. Just because he has been requested to step out of the active work does not mean he is taken out of the work...
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Post by ts on Jul 25, 2012 22:21:50 GMT -5
TS, As I tried to say Yes, LW is still a worker even though he is not active....and unless he is charged and convicted on the allegations he will remain a worker until he either decides he doesn't want to be a worker until he dies and he gets married, buys a car, house etc. Just because he has been requested to step out of the active work does not mean he is taken out of the work... So the court of the land has the power to determine if Leslie White is a worker or not? Weren't there some of the disciples that were tried and convicted by the law of the land? Did that make them guilty? Did that mean that they weren't any longer workers? What makes a worker a worker? Leslie White was scheduled for convention rounds this summer. Is he less capable of being a worker even if he is guilty? He is the same speaker that he was back in the spring. Does the spirit of his message somehow change because of a court decision? Is he less helpful in meeting as a result?
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Post by rational on Jul 25, 2012 23:03:21 GMT -5
TS, As I tried to say Yes, LW is still a worker even though he is not active....and unless he is charged and convicted on the allegations he will remain a worker until he either decides he doesn't want to be a worker until he dies and he gets married, buys a car, house etc. Just because he has been requested to step out of the active work does not mean he is taken out of the work... So the court of the land has the power to determine if Leslie White is a worker or not? Weren't there some of the disciples that were tried and convicted by the law of the land? Did that make them guilty? Did that mean that they weren't any longer workers? What makes a worker a worker? Leslie White was scheduled for convention rounds this summer. Is he less capable of being a worker even if he is guilty? He is the same speaker that he was back in the spring. Does the spirit of his message somehow change because of a court decision? Is he less helpful in meeting as a result? Didn't you cover this when you were saying you were still a worker?
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 11:19:27 GMT -5
TS in Romans KJV calls them helpers.."WORKERS" this to me is a great description for a servant who has given all to Gods service .. And please look to top for rules if you accuse someone please provide a link to provide proof. Even if someone said they received a Email it is hear say. Slander . provide us with names of the SW or Police report.Or delete thread There is no slander involved here. I have not accused Leslie of doing anything illegal, so there is no need for a news article to support my claims. The overseers can confirm to you that there was arbitration that took place with Leslie. So you are saying that anyone who has given all to God's service is a worker? Are you also saying that all the workers and overseers are have given all to serve God? Or are there some who are only nominally workers but are wolves who have crept in among God's people to do them a mischief? If there are no wolves among the overseers, how has the Meeting church avoided such a thing? If there are wolves among the overseers, how do we get them out of the place of authority where they can hurt people spiritually and in other ways?
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Post by emy on Jul 26, 2012 11:28:14 GMT -5
Did Jesus say to throw out the wolves? He said to "Beware" and to "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves." He even said to not take many provisions with them and not to socialize with everyone along the way.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 11:38:42 GMT -5
Did Jesus say to throw out the wolves? He said to "Beware" and to "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves." He even said to not take many provisions with them and not to socialize with everyone along the way. Yes, he did. They either had to follow him or not. Many turned back from him but it was clear that they were not following Jesus. Jesus spoke very harshly against the pharisees. There was a clear distinction. There were those who made the burden heavy and Jesus who made the burden light. Paul said to not even eat with one who is sexually immoral. The worker and meeting stance is to treat consistent(legal) sexual immorality in the ministry the same as getting a speeding ticket. Or even less serious since one is lawful and one unlawful by the standards of the law of the land. The workers and friends have largely replaced righteousness with legalism. As a result, their gospel has become watered down and powerless. They have become a lukewarm church more interested in protecting their system than they are in taking the gospel into all the world. In that complacent system, predators have found a way to thrive. The predators are at the top making the rules that keep them from coming under scrutiny. The friends are convinced that such rules are scriptural.
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2012 11:45:09 GMT -5
There is no slander involved here. I have not accused Leslie of doing anything illegal, so there is no need for a news article to support my claims. There is no slander only because it is in print. This reminds me - are you ever going to explain your claim of how the lack of financial accountability can harm someone spiritually?
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 11:50:20 GMT -5
Emy, you make it sound like a virtue to have an overseer speak at your convention who is known to have decades of sexual misconduct or to have an overseer speak at your convention who has covered up decades of sexual misconduct.
You call these men "workers" for some reason. Would you like to hear a pentecostal preacher speak at convention who is known to be a true servant of God with no besetting sin that has compromised his ministry?
I doubt it. The workers would never approve of that either even though they approve of workers with a LONG history of(legal) sexual immorality going on convention rounds.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 11:53:46 GMT -5
There is no slander involved here. I have not accused Leslie of doing anything illegal, so there is no need for a news article to support my claims. There is no slander only because it is in print. This reminds me - are you ever going to explain your claim of how the lack of financial accountability can harm someone spiritually? I will talk more with you about the spirit when you confess that Jesus is the king of all the earth and heaven and receive the Holy Spirit. I fully believe that this will one day happen. There are many people praying to that end the more you post and promote Godless morality.
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2012 12:29:15 GMT -5
I will talk more with you about the spirit when you confess that Jesus is the king of all the earth and heaven and receive the Holy Spirit. I fully believe that this will one day happen. So you can not offer an example nor an explanation of this not say that you have any personal knowledge of a worker flying off, without the F&W knowledge, for a sexual encounter. This is no surprise. Can you show how godless morality is any less moral god-based morality? Do you believe your god is the source of morality?
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Post by ScholarGal on Jul 26, 2012 14:06:11 GMT -5
I will talk more with you about the spirit when you confess that Jesus is the king of all the earth and heaven and receive the Holy Spirit. I fully believe that this will one day happen. So you can not offer an example nor an explanation of this not say that you have any personal knowledge of a worker flying off, without the F&W knowledge, for a sexual encounter. This is no surprise. I saw a post where he named two people. Can't find it anymore, so I guess he either removed it himself or got hit by the mod squad.
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2012 14:12:41 GMT -5
So you can not offer an example nor an explanation of this not say that you have any personal knowledge of a worker flying off, without the F&W knowledge, for a sexual encounter. This is no surprise. I saw a post where he named two people. Can't find it anymore, so I guess he either removed it himself or got hit by the mod squad. I think the qualifier 'personal knowledge' might be the sticking point.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 14:27:12 GMT -5
So you can not offer an example nor an explanation of this not say that you have any personal knowledge of a worker flying off, without the F&W knowledge, for a sexual encounter. This is no surprise. I saw a post where he named two people. Can't find it anymore, so I guess he either removed it himself or got hit by the mod squad. It actually does no good to name them. No good with rational. No good with the workers. I can understand with rational because his morality isn't based on an effort to live and uphold a Godly life that comes with a relationship with God. He isn't upholding himself as a spiritual leader and making an effort to help people get their souls drawing satisfaction from the spirit rather than the flesh. The workers, on the other hand, do have that reputation. However, their actions are more in line with rational's morality rather than Godly morality. So, whereas it should be of grave importance that an overseer engaged in legal immorality, they are not moved to mourning and repentance. Not moved to cleanse the work. Rather they are moved to protect the worker and the system. The workers feel like rational does. If the offense is not documented in a court of law and a judgement is made in a court with lawyers on both sides, then everything is "he said, she said". That is the way Barry Barkley has dealt with Leslie White even though there were witnesses and PROOF that the situation was more than "he said she said". The standards of immorality in the work should be higher than in a court of law. Sadly, they are not. Immorality compromises the ministry of a worker even if they no one knows. The workers are going on as if no one knows even when it is obvious that many know.
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Post by emy on Jul 26, 2012 15:27:08 GMT -5
Did Jesus say to throw out the wolves? He said to "Beware" and to "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves." He even said to not take many provisions with them and not to socialize with everyone along the way. Yes, he did. They either had to follow him or not. Many turned back from him but it was clear that they were not following Jesus. Follow him or not was their choice. How does that show he meant "throw them out"? Paul said to not even eat with one who is sexually immoral. ... Yes, he did. Here is what he said: 1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
To the best of my knowledge, I have not eaten with a worker or friend known to be a fornicator, though you would seem to think that is a given. However, in reading the rest of the list, I wondered if I should ever agree to eat with you, because you seem to be a "railer."
rail (v.) to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation (n. railer)
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Post by sharonw on Jul 26, 2012 15:41:30 GMT -5
TS, As I tried to say Yes, LW is still a worker even though he is not active....and unless he is charged and convicted on the allegations he will remain a worker until he either decides he doesn't want to be a worker until he dies and he gets married, buys a car, house etc. Just because he has been requested to step out of the active work does not mean he is taken out of the work... So the court of the land has the power to determine if Leslie White is a worker or not? No, it is perhaps the thing that convicts which will cause the overseers to actually tell LW that he is no longer a worker. Right now he is just not an active worker. Weren't there some of the disciples that were tried and convicted by the law of the land? Did that make them guilty? Did that mean that they weren't any longer workers? As to being a disciple of Jesus, convictions of guilt does not change them being disciples of Jesus...for we all sin and come short of the glory of God and need repentance every day. What makes a worker a worker? A worker is made a worker by first volunteering to be a worker, then those that would be his overseer(s) finds him a companion and sends him out into the work..... Leslie White was scheduled for convention rounds this summer. Is he less capable of being a worker even if he is guilty? He is the same speaker that he was back in the spring. Does the spirit of his message somehow change because of a court decision? Is he less helpful in meeting as a result? LW is not going to be able to keep his convention rounds this summer in all likelihood. I think the more adverse reportsd and claims that come out against him make it impossible for him to be the same speaker who was able to bend the ears of those who listened to him. I think that the adversitity of just facing allegations of doing a crime would change his own spirit depending on how he faces those allegations and I would strongly suspect that if he is convicted that we won't be hearing his messages in any time in the hear future. And IF he is convicted he will also be less helpful in meetings, and convs. That is just the cost of being convicted of a crime, he has to pay his just does for doing what he's convicted for. And likely will never be a worker ever again simply because of the conviction, sentencing and most of all, his age.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 26, 2012 15:51:12 GMT -5
I saw a post where he named two people. Can't find it anymore, so I guess he either removed it himself or got hit by the mod squad. It actually does no good to name them. No good with rational. No good with the workers. I can understand with rational because his morality isn't based on an effort to live and uphold a Godly life that comes with a relationship with God. He isn't upholding himself as a spiritual leader and making an effort to help people get their souls drawing satisfaction from the spirit rather than the flesh. The workers, on the other hand, do have that reputation. However, their actions are more in line with rational's morality rather than Godly morality. So, whereas it should be of grave importance that an overseer engaged in legal immorality, they are not moved to mourning and repentance. Not moved to cleanse the work. Rather they are moved to protect the worker and the system. The workers feel like rational does. If the offense is not documented in a court of law and a judgement is made in a court with lawyers on both sides, then everything is "he said, she said". That is the way Barry Barkley has dealt with Leslie White even though there were witnesses and PROOF that the situation was more than "he said she said". The standards of immorality in the work should be higher than in a court of law. Sadly, they are not. Immorality compromises the ministry of a worker even if they no one knows. The workers are going on as if no one knows even when it is obvious that many know. TS, I'm taking exception to naming all the workers or all the overseers of just being "legally immoral" in their acceptance of workers that have weaknesses of the flesh. The "wolf" that is in the workership is that which is in the bible and it says that there would be those who prohibit marriage and this is what is wrong with the workership. As Jesus said there are some who CAN be eunuchs for the kingdom's benefit, but not many can make themselves eunuchs successfully.....so it is wrong to expect the number of workers that are and have been in the work to being celibate....this is what causes the issue of reprobate minds in the workers because it is nearly impossible for all of them in the last 110 years to be celibate and thus the slipping around to satisfy the flesh becomes a no-no and the more they slip around for it, the more excited they get about sex....that's just the effects of prohibiting marriage. God did not make men and women to be celibate, fact is HE showed in the relationship with Adam and EVe that celibacy is not the intention of His creation....go forth and multiply.....I'm sure God did not put that "pleasure of sex" into humans so that they can prohibit marriage...but IT was so tht marriage was attractive to them to love and honor one another with their bodies.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 16:03:31 GMT -5
So the court of the land has the power to determine if Leslie White is a worker or not? No, it is perhaps the thing that convicts which will cause the overseers to actually tell LW that he is no longer a worker. Right now he is just not an active worker. Weren't there some of the disciples that were tried and convicted by the law of the land? Did that make them guilty? Did that mean that they weren't any longer workers? As to being a disciple of Jesus, convictions of guilt does not change them being disciples of Jesus...for we all sin and come short of the glory of God and need repentance every day. What makes a worker a worker? A worker is made a worker by first volunteering to be a worker, then those that would be his overseer(s) finds him a companion and sends him out into the work..... Leslie White was scheduled for convention rounds this summer. Is he less capable of being a worker even if he is guilty? He is the same speaker that he was back in the spring. Does the spirit of his message somehow change because of a court decision? Is he less helpful in meeting as a result? LW is not going to be able to keep his convention rounds this summer in all likelihood. I think the more adverse reportsd and claims that come out against him make it impossible for him to be the same speaker who was able to bend the ears of those who listened to him. I think that the adversitity of just facing allegations of doing a crime would change his own spirit depending on how he faces those allegations and I would strongly suspect that if he is convicted that we won't be hearing his messages in any time in the hear future. And IF he is convicted he will also be less helpful in meetings, and convs. That is just the cost of being convicted of a crime, he has to pay his just does for doing what he's convicted for. And likely will never be a worker ever again simply because of the conviction, sentencing and most of all, his age. I agree with the tenor of what you are saying. Ultimately it is not the insight of the overseers and fellow workers that has seen the destruction of Leslie's actions. It takes at the very least a threat of the legal system to make the overseers jump into action. Not so much for the care of the people who are victims or potential victims but for the threat to their own hides and the system being called into question. There is no spiritual discernment in the work and it is destructive to the friends.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 16:11:21 GMT -5
Yes, he did. They either had to follow him or not. Many turned back from him but it was clear that they were not following Jesus. Follow him or not was their choice. How does that show he meant "throw them out"? Paul said to not even eat with one who is sexually immoral. ... Yes, he did. Here is what he said: 1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
To the best of my knowledge, I have not eaten with a worker or friend known to be a fornicator, though you would seem to think that is a given. However, in reading the rest of the list, I wondered if I should ever agree to eat with you, because you seem to be a "railer."
rail (v.) to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation (n. railer)You could probably strike off folks like Elijah from your list, too. Might as well not invite Jesus either as he spoke about the Pharisees being whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones. I am against abuse and I am standing up for the poor and afflicted. I am against the predators as any pastor/shepherd would be. The workers who ARE the predators OF COURSE advocate that people not fling any stones at them. that is why they equate their iniquity and the advantages they gain to having the friends and workers in bondage to "sin" and urge people to not "cast the first stone". You see, there was a BIG difference between the woman caught in adultery and the pharisees putting people in bondage. Jesus had more compassion on the sinners than he did the leaders afflicting the people.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 26, 2012 16:17:09 GMT -5
LW is not going to be able to keep his convention rounds this summer in all likelihood. I think the more adverse reportsd and claims that come out against him make it impossible for him to be the same speaker who was able to bend the ears of those who listened to him. I think that the adversitity of just facing allegations of doing a crime would change his own spirit depending on how he faces those allegations and I would strongly suspect that if he is convicted that we won't be hearing his messages in any time in the hear future. And IF he is convicted he will also be less helpful in meetings, and convs. That is just the cost of being convicted of a crime, he has to pay his just does for doing what he's convicted for. And likely will never be a worker ever again simply because of the conviction, sentencing and most of all, his age. I agree with the tenor of what you are saying. Ultimately it is not the insight of the overseers and fellow workers that has seen the destruction of Leslie's actions. It takes at the very least a threat of the legal system to make the overseers jump into action. Not so much for the care of the people who are victims or potential victims but for the threat to their own hides and the system being called into question. There is no spiritual discernment in the work and it is destructive to the friends. I don't see that it is "spiritual discernment" that is the problem, TS....I see that there seems to have been some ignorant minds about the creation of man and woman when they required the workers to be celibate. Yes, to be itinerant and be married is hard to deal with even in scheduling fields for them.....however, the intial thrust of the 2x2 fellowship was "evangelism" and since the workers of this day keep their "evangelism" more into friends' children and contacts, that this "itinerant" worker is a joke! Using workers as pastors would serve the issue much better. And pastors can be married and maintain their own homes...in that they can do like many other pastors and have a daytime job....and yes, I know that there will be times they have to be excused from their daytime job for funerals, etc. But other pastors do it, why not the workers? It doesn't make them any less a worker and it will remove that worship that makes them in the place of God which is what is really killing the fellowship......As many friends that are in each state, they could support maybe one or two sets of workers who ARE itinerant in that they do not have a home sustained by their own working for the world, etc....and these itinerant workers could also be those who are going to be moving about the state as needed...I suspect it could really come down to how many friends there are in the state or two states when it comes to maintaining itinerant workers who are dependent entirely on the friends' support. But actually doing away with the convs. and yes, I know, we all liked convs. the best of all that went on in the fellowship, but doing away with the convs. will stopp this "worship" of the workers asa well...because guest workers that come to convs. and people like what they hear from them, tends to elevate those workers above all else. I strongly suspect that IF there is a 2x2 fellowship that continues into the next 100 yrs. that it will likely be a workerless fellowship and home mtgs will be the desire of those in it.
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Post by ts on Jul 26, 2012 16:26:44 GMT -5
It actually does no good to name them. No good with rational. No good with the workers. I can understand with rational because his morality isn't based on an effort to live and uphold a Godly life that comes with a relationship with God. He isn't upholding himself as a spiritual leader and making an effort to help people get their souls drawing satisfaction from the spirit rather than the flesh. The workers, on the other hand, do have that reputation. However, their actions are more in line with rational's morality rather than Godly morality. So, whereas it should be of grave importance that an overseer engaged in legal immorality, they are not moved to mourning and repentance. Not moved to cleanse the work. Rather they are moved to protect the worker and the system. The workers feel like rational does. If the offense is not documented in a court of law and a judgement is made in a court with lawyers on both sides, then everything is "he said, she said". That is the way Barry Barkley has dealt with Leslie White even though there were witnesses and PROOF that the situation was more than "he said she said". The standards of immorality in the work should be higher than in a court of law. Sadly, they are not. Immorality compromises the ministry of a worker even if they no one knows. The workers are going on as if no one knows even when it is obvious that many know. TS, I'm taking exception to naming all the workers or all the overseers of just being "legally immoral" in their acceptance of workers that have weaknesses of the flesh. The "wolf" that is in the workership is that which is in the bible and it says that there would be those who prohibit marriage and this is what is wrong with the workership. As Jesus said there are some who CAN be eunuchs for the kingdom's benefit, but not many can make themselves eunuchs successfully.....so it is wrong to expect the number of workers that are and have been in the work to being celibate....this is what causes the issue of reprobate minds in the workers because it is nearly impossible for all of them in the last 110 years to be celibate and thus the slipping around to satisfy the flesh becomes a no-no and the more they slip around for it, the more excited they get about sex....that's just the effects of prohibiting marriage. God did not make men and women to be celibate, fact is HE showed in the relationship with Adam and EVe that celibacy is not the intention of His creation....go forth and multiply.....I'm sure God did not put that "pleasure of sex" into humans so that they can prohibit marriage...but IT was so tht marriage was attractive to them to love and honor one another with their bodies. Taking a page out of the worker sermons that I learned and am now preaching to the workers: When false doctrine enters in, you can expect that falseness will increase. Satan's work will increase. You have described it very well how it works, sharon. The workers set up a celibate ministry in order to maintain control of the system. They found that they were able to hide the resulting immorality and dishonesty became a part of the system on top of the sin. It is not the sin so much as the dishonesty that is the problem. The dishonesty is what prevents true repentance. What might have once been the sins of some individuals has become the sins of many. The confession and repentance of a leader (or anyone) is not just for that person but for the sake of the whole group. Back before there was provision for confession and repentance, the person had to be stoned. That is because there are demons and spirits that go with a person and their message when they are walking in sin. The spirit of what they are involved in comes through in their message no matter how good the delivery. So, if there are any of the friends with the same weaknesses, the SPIRIT of the message will go through and beset them also. I am sure that hidden immorality of the workers is responsible for many broken marriages among the friends. The workers have a lot to answer for no matter what capacity they aided this transfer of spirit. When the Holy Spirit accompanies the message, people are built up in all areas of their life. It isn't about good words but the imparting of the Spirit. A handsome sermon without the Spirit is less effective than a simple and short message with the Spirit. The legal system has become for the workers the gauge of the spirit. Winning a case means they are spiritually right and they have the money to win.
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Post by quizzer on Jul 26, 2012 17:38:35 GMT -5
Are we now saying that marriage cures the desire to rape? This thought pattern was unhelpful with CSA, and won't be a cure for other sexual deviations.
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