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Post by sharonw on Jul 30, 2012 21:03:36 GMT -5
Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. This was uncalled for. (If anyone is going to annoy Sharon I will!)Now, now...there's plenty for annoyance to go around!
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Post by sharonw on Jul 30, 2012 21:05:11 GMT -5
You must not have been around our young people lately. They are far from being in a cocoon. Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. Looks like we have a little rational in the making. You have learned the lesson well, grasshopper. Your champion is leading the way. I'm not so certain there's a little Rat in the making...Rat demands, Lin is over sarcastic.....
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 21:17:27 GMT -5
Looks like we have a little rational in the making. You have learned the lesson well, grasshopper. Your champion is leading the way. I'm not so certain there's a little Rat in the making...Rat demands, Lin is over sarcastic..... Linford is still in the making. Not quite there yet. But his admiration for rational is clear in his posts. He thinks he's "got it" and it comes over as sarcastic. noels and kiwi are along the same line.
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 21:45:25 GMT -5
Rational expresses well the morality of the workers and, it appears, the elders...the leadership of the meetings. I do not express the morality of anyone but myself. I do not know nor pretend to know their moral code. My morality has absolutely nothing to do with the law of the land. Once again you have created a statement from whole cloth. And, again, I do not have that magical power you apparently have to know the morality of all the meeting leadership. But you are correct, my morality has nothing to do with the fear of a paranormal being and is not based in any way on a fear of being punished by said being. I feel sad that you, or anyone, leads a fear based life. Is a moral choice based on the fear of being punished by a supreme being really a moral choice or an action motivated by fear? If you don't shoplift because you believe it is wrong you have made a moral choice. If you don't shoplift because you fear being caught you have not had to make a moral choice and, should that threat be removed, there is nothing in your moral code to stop you from shoplifting.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 22:26:30 GMT -5
Rational expresses well the morality of the workers and, it appears, the elders...the leadership of the meetings. I do not express the morality of anyone but myself. I do not know nor pretend to know their moral code. My morality has absolutely nothing to do with the law of the land. Once again you have created a statement from whole cloth. And, again, I do not have that magical power you apparently have to know the morality of all the meeting leadership. But you are correct, my morality has nothing to do with the fear of a paranormal being and is not based in any way on a fear of being punished by said being. I feel sad that you, or anyone, leads a fear based life. Is a moral choice based on the fear of being punished by a supreme being really a moral choice or an action motivated by fear? If you don't shoplift because you believe it is wrong you have made a moral choice. If you don't shoplift because you fear being caught you have not had to make a moral choice and, should that threat be removed, there is nothing in your moral code to stop you from shoplifting. Your moral code coincides with that of the meeting leadership. I do not see their moral code differs in any way to yours. So, perhaps you both arrived at the same moral code through the same thought process. I have a feeling that the workers believe in spirits just as much as you do. However, it is the same spirit driving your beliefs.
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 22:43:21 GMT -5
Your moral code coincides with that of the meeting leadership. What is my moral code? I would discuss this but I have no way of knowing the moral code of all members of the meeting leadership. How could you know this? And what is that thought process? Since I, as you, do not know all workers and their beliefs I fail to understand how you can claim this. And what is that spirit? Again you have failed to address any of the questions asked. Instead you have continued to make the same unsupported statements that are, in a word, lies. Now why don't you explain how your morals that are, as you have said, based on a fear of god any more sound than a person's morals that are not fear based. Or just continue to post your prevarications.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 22:55:56 GMT -5
Your moral code coincides with that of the meeting leadership. What is my moral code? I would discuss this but I have no way of knowing the moral code of all members of the meeting leadership. How could you know this? And what is that thought process? Since I, as you, do not know all workers and their beliefs I fail to understand how you can claim this. And what is that spirit? Again you have failed to address any of the questions asked. Instead you have continued to make the same unsupported statements that are, in a word, lies. Now why don't you explain how your morals that are, as you have said, based on a fear of god any more sound than a person's morals that are not fear based. Or just continue to post your prevarications. WOW!! That is just about exactly how the worker leadership would respond!!!
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 23:55:52 GMT -5
Workers are "just individuals" when it suits them. Then, they are unified making policies when it suits them.
If you try to point out that they make foolish policies, well, that is just an individual making policies and no one need follow it.
However, if one confronts a worker on the policy, he's "rebellious".
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 0:11:32 GMT -5
WOW!! That is just about exactly how the worker leadership would respond!!! Really? They would ask you to verify your unsupported claims? Would question your ability to judge people whom you know little about? And yet you have chosen again to side step the issues and questions asked. I don't get it. You claim that your moral ground based on fearing god is so much superior to someone who has a moral compass not based on the fear of god yet you choose to avoid discussing the subject. Perhaps you could point to a moral stance that one could have fearing god but would not be present if a person did not fear god.
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Post by kencoolidge on Jul 31, 2012 6:31:57 GMT -5
RAT You have accused me of being TS's mouthpiece so I 'll just jump in. WOW!! That is just about exactly how the worker leadership would respond!!! Really? They would ask you to verify your unsupported claims? Rat Here the overseers don't even dabble with facts any questioning of their policy decisions and you are definitely wrong
Would question your ability to judge people whom you know little about? RAT Are we talking about observations or hypocrisy saying one thing and supporting something else? Easy to draw some conclusions on morality of the individual by their actions and words. TS has indicated his impressions of you as being just like the fellowship leadership. I respect you but like the overseers who are challenged you will wear them down with rabbit chases and off topic babble to the point of wondering what was the original subject?And yet you have chosen again to side step the issues and questions asked. I don't get it. You claim that your moral ground based on fearing god is so much superior to someone who has a moral compass not based on the fear of god yet you choose to avoid discussing the subject. Rat We have discussed this before whats true north of your Moral compass.I sure hope it doesn't point to a mortal human like you Does it change with circumstances or surroundings. Compasses are used to find your way home sometimes. A changing true north would have a considerable confusion factor and it would be difficult to find you way home!. TS's compass remains fixed Perhaps you could point to a moral stance that one could have fearing god but would not be present if a person did not fear god. There is you RAT and then some look alike in the leadership Sorry for jumping in but from your past shots across the bow I feel its OK JMT ken
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Post by snow on Jul 31, 2012 9:38:28 GMT -5
Why would a fear based morality be superior to a heart based morality?
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 11:22:52 GMT -5
Your nested quote style really messed up ProBoards! So what you are saying is that the workers/overseers do not question unsupported claims and seek facts. That is what I thought as well which is why I questioned TS comparing my response to the workers. But the conclusions are simply speculation. How do my actions and moral code differ from what I post here? Which would indicate that he believes I am being a hypocrite. Now would he arrive at that conclusion with any certainty? TS is the person being challenged. Perhaps he is used to making a statement and having it accepted, like the workers, without challenge. And then when challenged it is he that changes subject and bobs and dodges to avoid having to support his claims. And you are right, I will continue to chase the rabbit and respond to the off topic babble as long as TS wants to continue. But in the end the question remains the same. It is pretty clear. The topic is trying to get TS to explain how a morality based on the fear of a paranormal being is superior to a personal moral code not based on fear. The rabbit chasing happens because TS does not answer the original question and posts all sorts of distracting posts in the hope that people will forget the original question. Sounds like you are saying that god provides the basis for your morals. That s/he sets the example and provided the morals you follow. Is that correct? I imagine it is. Think of how confused Joseph must have been. His wife to be was pregnant. However it happened, it was a sin. But since the person responsible for the deed was god - let it slide this time. True north? Unchanging? I don't know TS well enough to evaluate that claim. But you too are dodging the issue. The question is what makes fear based morals superior to morals not based on fear of punishment. As I pointed out, if you are taking action out of fear of what will happen - it is not a moral choice. If your morals are based on a fear of god, as TS said, then your actions are based on following rules because of fear and there are no moral decisions being made. You are simply following rules. I was unable to parse all of this statement but feel free to jump in any time.
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 11:25:54 GMT -5
Why would a fear based morality be superior to a heart based morality? I don't know. I guess it eliminates the need for a personal moral code. Makes moral choices easier - rule based decisions.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 31, 2012 15:31:50 GMT -5
Maybe they have a bobble head doll named ts!
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Post by sharonw on Jul 31, 2012 16:15:55 GMT -5
I'm not so certain there's a little Rat in the making...Rat demands, Lin is over sarcastic..... Linford is still in the making. Not quite there yet. But his admiration for rational is clear in his posts. He thinks he's "got it" and it comes over as sarcastic. noels and kiwi are along the same line. Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well!
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Post by sharonw on Jul 31, 2012 16:18:38 GMT -5
Why would a fear based morality be superior to a heart based morality? The willingness? The choices? Not doing something because you fear what the results might be or doing something because it suits you?
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Post by sharonw on Jul 31, 2012 16:21:27 GMT -5
Rational expresses well the morality of the workers and, it appears, the elders...the leadership of the meetings. I do not express the morality of anyone but myself. I do not know nor pretend to know their moral code. My morality has absolutely nothing to do with the law of the land. Once again you have created a statement from whole cloth. And, again, I do not have that magical power you apparently have to know the morality of all the meeting leadership. But you are correct, my morality has nothing to do with the fear of a paranormal being and is not based in any way on a fear of being punished by said being. I feel sad that you, or anyone, leads a fear based life. Is a moral choice based on the fear of being punished by a supreme being really a moral choice or an action motivated by fear? If you don't shoplift because you believe it is wrong you have made a moral choice. If you don't shoplift because you fear being caught you have not had to make a moral choice and, should that threat be removed, there is nothing in your moral code to stop you from shoplifting. I suspect Rat's moral compass was set many years ago by his parents teaching him what was basically right or wrong. He has only added to that with his own experience or his own intellectual pursuits, just like many people who struggle to not be a donkey's *&* when dealing with another person. But yet, some of us just don't learn that skill as well as others, eh?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 31, 2012 16:35:51 GMT -5
Linford is still in the making. Not quite there yet. But his admiration for rational is clear in his posts. He thinks he's "got it" and it comes over as sarcastic. noels and kiwi are along the same line. Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well! Explain those markings. That should be interesting. Why the concern? Is it because we can think for ourselves and don't spout off vehement criticism of the workers? Is it because we are satisfied with our own experiences in life?
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Post by ts on Jul 31, 2012 16:42:15 GMT -5
Linford is still in the making. Not quite there yet. But his admiration for rational is clear in his posts. He thinks he's "got it" and it comes over as sarcastic. noels and kiwi are along the same line. Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well! I know what you mean them not seeming similar. Rational is the Goliath of the 2x2 leadership rationale. He is their champion. Rational's points are based on and all lead back to there being no "paranormal being". The foundation is without fear of God. The 2x2 leadership operates without the fear of God. The weak and the poor and the hurt do not get the "Good Samaritan" treatment from the Meeting leadership.
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Post by kencoolidge on Jul 31, 2012 16:53:03 GMT -5
When we say fear of God is not the same as being touted by Rat and company. We love God and are conscious that we want to please Him. Others Love themselves and are conscious of only what others may think or say about them. I believe as the Holy Spirit guides and directs we are well aware of Gods blessings not because of what others say or think about us but we understand that God is familiar with the thoughts and intents of our hearts. We love him and we fear not what others say or do about our beliefs. Correction is hard to take even for those implying they know everything when compared to the creator they know nothing jmt ken Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well! I know what you mean them not seeming similar. Rational is the Goliath of the 2x2 leadership rationale. He is their champion. Rational's points are based on and all lead back to there being no "paranormal being". The foundation is without fear of God. The 2x2 leadership operates without the fear Love of God. The weak and the poor and the hurt do not get the "Good Samaritan" treatment from the Meeting leadership.
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Post by ts on Jul 31, 2012 16:54:41 GMT -5
Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well! Explain those markings. That should be interesting. Why the concern? Is it because we can think for ourselves and don't spout off vehement criticism of the workers? Is it because we are satisfied with our own experiences in life? I do have vehement criticism for abusive workers. There are those who, like myself, do not appreciate being lied to and abused by those who are given care and authority over their souls as pastors in God's name. You are content with your own experience but you are not your brother's keeper. You criticize those who are hurt and wounded just like the scribe and pharisee who passed by the wounded man. The Samaritan stopped to help. Not only did he bandage him up and set him on his own donkey, he told the inn keeper to take care of him and whatever he spent more he would repay when he got back. I do not see that sort of care in your language and I do not see that sort of care coming from the workers.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 31, 2012 17:19:44 GMT -5
Honestly, TS! I can see the identical markings on Noels, Kiwi and Lin....but I have to say I'm not certain Rat fits in there very well! Explain those markings. That should be interesting. Why the concern? Is it because we can think for ourselves and don't spout off vehement criticism of the workers? Is it because we are satisfied with our own experiences in life? Well, actually I was trying to get TS to see that Rat does not measure with the same yardstick the other 3 do. But since you profess satisfaction with your own experiences, that is fine with me.....but to what profit to someone else? Can we just sit as we've done for umpteen and twice that many years and let the things in the workership/friendship continue to mount up until that which satisfies you is gone because there is NO GOOD left in it any more? Then what shall you find to satisfy you, Lin.....that which you 3 men find satisfying has hidden the dark fruits of evil for many many years. And yes, I'll admit that not all persons within the work OR the friends are evil are actually knowledgeable about those dark fruits within their fellowship. However, I just saw some evidence recently given by the guilty person's own handwriting of some dark fruits within this person's own power that I would have stood strong against any one else claiming such things about that person in the workership and Yes, it was an overseer and not LW.....My stomach has not gotten settled since and a sour taste is in my mouth. What was it? I'm not ready to share other then to say that people have disappointed me all through my life and I thought maybe just maybe that after I got older that I would have enough sensibility to "judge" my friends better then I did as a child......and am handed such things as a self-confess dark fruits? I'm sorry Lin, but I often get a bit p-owed when I find people hanging onto their "satisfaction" so tight that they cannot see that Satan is close by.
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Post by stargazer on Jul 31, 2012 17:33:27 GMT -5
Explain those markings. That should be interesting. Why the concern? Is it because we can think for ourselves and don't spout off vehement criticism of the workers? Is it because we are satisfied with our own experiences in life? Well, actually I was trying to get TS to see that Rat does not measure with the same yardstick the other 3 do. But since you profess satisfaction with your own experiences, that is fine with me.....but to what profit to someone else? Can we just sit as we've done for umpteen and twice that many years and let the things in the workership/friendship continue to mount up until that which satisfies you is gone because there is NO GOOD left in it any more? Then what shall you find to satisfy you, Lin.....that which you 3 men find satisfying has hidden the dark fruits of evil for many many years. And yes, I'll admit that not all persons within the work OR the friends are evil are actually knowledgeable about those dark fruits within their fellowship. However, I just saw some evidence recently given by the guilty person's own handwriting of some dark fruits within this person's own power that I would have stood strong against any one else claiming such things about that person in the workership and Yes, it was an overseer and not LW.....My stomach has not gotten settled since and a sour taste is in my mouth. What was it? I'm not ready to share other then to say that people have disappointed me all through my life and I thought maybe just maybe that after I got older that I would have enough sensibility to "judge" my friends better then I did as a child......and am handed such things as a self-confess dark fruits? I'm sorry Lin, but I often get a bit p-owed when I find people hanging onto their "satisfaction" so tight that they cannot see that Satan is close by. I've found Lin's postings to be practical and insightful. He doesn't get carried away with the hystrionics of emotion that detract from many posts here, rendering them of little merit. Disagreeing with another's moods and emotions is not necessarily evidence that Satan is nearby (even though, no doubt, he always is). I actually think such an accusation is foolish. Also, I generally find Rats dissection of various posters' wording to be spot on.
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Post by ts on Jul 31, 2012 18:02:17 GMT -5
Well, actually I was trying to get TS to see that Rat does not measure with the same yardstick the other 3 do. But since you profess satisfaction with your own experiences, that is fine with me.....but to what profit to someone else? Can we just sit as we've done for umpteen and twice that many years and let the things in the workership/friendship continue to mount up until that which satisfies you is gone because there is NO GOOD left in it any more? Then what shall you find to satisfy you, Lin.....that which you 3 men find satisfying has hidden the dark fruits of evil for many many years. And yes, I'll admit that not all persons within the work OR the friends are evil are actually knowledgeable about those dark fruits within their fellowship. However, I just saw some evidence recently given by the guilty person's own handwriting of some dark fruits within this person's own power that I would have stood strong against any one else claiming such things about that person in the workership and Yes, it was an overseer and not LW.....My stomach has not gotten settled since and a sour taste is in my mouth. What was it? I'm not ready to share other then to say that people have disappointed me all through my life and I thought maybe just maybe that after I got older that I would have enough sensibility to "judge" my friends better then I did as a child......and am handed such things as a self-confess dark fruits? I'm sorry Lin, but I often get a bit p-owed when I find people hanging onto their "satisfaction" so tight that they cannot see that Satan is close by. I've found Lin's postings to be practical and insightful. He doesn't get carried away with the hystrionics of emotion that detract from many posts here, rendering them of little merit. Disagreeing with another's moods and emotions is not necessarily evidence that Satan is nearby (even though, no doubt, he always is). I actually think such an accusation is foolish. Also, I generally find Rats dissection of various posters' wording to be spot on. ...and both are without the spirit of Christ in their posts. Their insights are well suited for a court of law in the land. That is the equivalent of righteousness in the worker ranks. Linford and Rational express the worker righteousness very well. It is flawless, really. If that is what they are satisfied with, that is fine.
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 18:17:12 GMT -5
Not doing something because you fear what the results might be or doing something because it suits you? Not because you fear the results of your actions but because you fear the 'creator' of the morals.
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 18:24:58 GMT -5
I suspect Rat's moral compass was set many years ago by his parents teaching him what was basically right or wrong. I suspect it was as well. And I am glad for what my parents did teach me. One thing that they did teach me was that my behavior should not be based on fear.Not sure how this relates to moral a moral code.
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 18:27:52 GMT -5
The weak and the poor and the hurt do not get the "Good Samaritan" treatment from the Meeting leadership. Are you saying that only those with morals based on fear help the poor, weak, and the hurt?
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Post by rational on Jul 31, 2012 19:07:17 GMT -5
When we say fear of God is not the same as being touted by Rat and company. I do not believe I am touting anything. When you say "fear" just what do you mean? OK. But TS specifically was talking about "fear of god" so let's stick with that lest I get accused of some rabbit maneuver and not sticking to the topic. OK. Possibly a valid point but it seems top be another rabbit move. OK. We can certainly discuss all of these at some point but focus on morals based on the fear of god so I do not get criticized for gong off on a tangent.Are you trying to twist not fearing what others might think as being equal to the fear of god? Morals and fear of god. That was the discussion.
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